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    #240 Why Fasting, Meal Timing and Real Food matters with Dr Sarah Berry, PhD RNutr & Chief Scientist at ZOE

    enMarch 27, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Calorie absorption varies greatly between individualsSome individuals absorb all calories, while others absorb significantly less, emphasizing the importance of personalized nutrition

      Key takeaway from the Doctor's Kitchen podcast episode is that calorie absorption varies greatly between individuals, with some absorbing the full amount and others absorbing significantly less. This discussion with Dr. Sarah Berry, an associate professor at King's College London and leading nutritional scientist, also covered various health topics, including meal timing, protein, and menopause. Dr. Berry emphasized the importance of enjoying food while maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Her breakfast choices reflect this belief, as she varies her meals based on her mood and social circumstances. The podcast offers a wealth of information, available for free on YouTube, and encourages listeners to sign up for the newsletter and explore the Doctor's Kitchen app for more resources.

    • Balance health and pleasure in breakfastFind balance between high-quality nutrients and enjoyment in your breakfast to keep full, productive and enhance overall well-being.

      While it's essential to consider the health benefits of our food choices, we must not forget the enjoyment and satisfaction they bring. When designing a perfect breakfast, consider if you're genuinely hungry and enjoy what you're eating. A balanced breakfast with high-quality proteins, healthy fats, and fiber from sources like Greek yogurt, nuts, and dried fruits can keep you full and productive. However, everyone's preferences and hunger patterns differ, so it's crucial to listen to your body. The key is to find a balance between health and pleasure, and remember that small, enjoyable choices can significantly impact your overall well-being. Additionally, try to minimize distractions while eating and be mindful of your eating habits to maximize the benefits.

    • Maintaining a balanced and healthy diet is the bigger pictureFocus on the larger picture of a healthy diet, prioritize small steps towards improvement, and enable children to understand and appreciate various types of food.

      While the size of individual food choices may seem significant, the larger picture of maintaining a balanced and healthy diet is what truly matters. The speaker, who is a nutrition expert and a parent, emphasizes that it's important to focus on the macro picture and not sweat the small stuff. She acknowledges the challenges of balancing work and family life while ensuring healthy meals for herself and her children. The speaker encourages small steps towards improvement, such as trying different healthier alternatives, and recognizes the importance of enabling children to understand and appreciate various types of food. She also emphasizes the reality of living in an ultra processed food landscape and the importance of navigating it. Overall, the key takeaway is that it's important to prioritize the larger picture of a healthy diet and not get overwhelmed by small choices, while also making small steps towards improvement.

    • Small diet improvements lead to significant health benefitsConsistently adding nutrient-dense foods to your meals can lead to better health over time, focusing on overall balance and considering food processing

      Making small, consistent improvements to your diet can lead to significant health benefits over time, rather than attempting drastic changes that may be unsustainable. For example, adding a handful of berries to your pancakes or choosing traditional oats over highly processed alternatives. It's essential to consider the context of your food choices and focus on overall nutritional balance. Oats, while high in carbohydrates and causing an increase in circulating glucose, can be made even healthier by adding additional fiber, protein, or healthy fats. The way food is processed significantly impacts its health effects, and it's crucial to look beyond the information on food labels. By making thoughtful choices and adding nutrient-dense foods to your meals, you can optimize the health benefits of your diet.

    • Foods' impact on blood sugar differs among individualsBe mindful of personal responses to foods, as some may help stabilize blood sugar for certain people, while causing dips for others. Avoid large meals or snacking late at night for overall health.

      The effect of certain foods on blood sugar levels can vary greatly from person to person. For instance, oats may help slow down the release of sugar into the bloodstream for some individuals, but cause a dip in blood sugar for others. The same goes for high carbohydrate meals in the evening. While some people may experience increased calorie consumption and poor sleep quality due to dips, others may not. Overall, it's essential to consider individual differences and be aware that how the body processes food can change depending on the time of day. Additionally, it's recommended to avoid eating large meals or snacking late at night to promote better overall health.

    • Timing of meals impacts metabolism and hunger signalsEating earlier in the day can lead to better metabolic health and feeling fuller longer, while eating later can make you feel less full and more hungry in the morning. Find a pattern that suits your lifestyle and preferences for optimal health.

      The timing of your meals can significantly impact how you metabolize food and feel hunger throughout the day. Eating the same food earlier in the day can make you feel fuller longer and help regulate your hunger signals, while eating later in the day can make you feel less full and more hungry in the morning. Additionally, studies suggest that early time-restricted eating, which includes breakfast and finishes earlier in the day, can lead to better overall metabolic health, including improved risk factors for type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and inflammation. However, it's important to note that individual circumstances and convenience should be considered when implementing this eating pattern. The evidence shows that any time-restricted eating, regardless of the specific hours, can be effective for weight control. Ultimately, it's essential to find a pattern that works best for your lifestyle and preferences.

    • Small changes to eating pattern for better mood, energy, and weight lossSmall changes like time-restricted eating or consuming whole oats and lentils can lead to improved mood, energy, reduced hunger, and weight loss

      Making small changes to your eating pattern, such as trying time-restricted eating, can lead to improved mood, energy, reduced hunger, and weight loss for most people. This doesn't require drastic measures, and the impact can be significant even with a reduction of just 1.5 hours in your eating window. Additionally, the way we process different foods, especially plant-based ones like oats and lentils, can impact our health. For instance, whole oats or lentils, when consumed intact, are metabolized more slowly, leading to a less pronounced blood sugar response and increased feelings of fullness due to the activation of hunger and fullness receptors further down in the gut.

    • Impact of Food Processing on Nutritional Value and AbsorptionFood processing affects nutrient absorption, with some nutrients going to the gut microbiome and others being excreted, leading to variability in caloric intake and nutrient efficiency between individuals.

      The way food is processed can significantly impact its nutritional value and the nutrients our bodies absorb. For example, with nuts, the rigidity of their cell walls means that only a fraction of the calories are actually absorbed in the small intestine, with the rest being excreted. This leaves nutrients for the gut microbiome but also results in a lower caloric intake than labeling may suggest. However, there is considerable variability between individuals in how they metabolize food, with some absorbing nutrients more efficiently than others. The reasons for these differences are not yet fully understood, but they could be related to enzymes in the mouth and digestive tract or the composition of the gut microbiome. The complexity of food and the variability in how it's metabolized make it a challenge to understand and navigate the food labeling system.

    • Impact of preparation and consumption on nutritional valueThe nutritional value of foods varies depending on preparation and consumption methods. Focus on overall diet and food combinations for effective nutrition, considering individual differences in nutrient absorption.

      The nutritional value of foods can vary greatly depending on how they are prepared and consumed. For example, when it comes to chickpeas, raw or canned chickpeas, and chickpea flour all provide different nutritional benefits. However, the addition of healthy fats and oils, such as olive oil, can significantly enhance the nutritional value of these foods. Furthermore, the way we consume foods, in combination with one another, can also impact their nutritional value. It's important to remember that we don't generally eat foods in isolation, but rather as part of a whole diet. Therefore, focusing on the overall diet and food combinations, rather than individual ingredients or nutrients, is a more effective approach to good nutrition. Additionally, individual differences in nutrient absorption should be considered when giving dietary advice.

    • Making ultra-processed foods healthier through 'health by stealth'Adding whole food ingredients to ultra-processed foods can improve nutrition and reduce post-meal glucose responses. Our understanding of nutrition evolves, so reconsider foods like eggs for their benefits.

      We can make ultra-processed foods healthier by adding whole food ingredients, such as chickpea flour, through a process called "health by stealth." This approach can reduce postprandial glucose responses and make people feel fuller due to the fiber and protein content. Additionally, our understanding of nutrition science is constantly evolving, and foods like eggs, which were once considered unhealthy due to their cholesterol content, are now recognized for their nutritional benefits. It's important to understand that dietary cholesterol and the cholesterol produced by the liver are different, and not all dietary cholesterol is harmful. By acknowledging the reality that ultra-processed foods are not going away, we can focus on reducing intake and finding ways to make them healthier through processing techniques.

    • Dietary Cholesterol vs. Blood CholesterolEating cholesterol-rich foods like eggs has minimal impact on blood cholesterol for most people. Focus on food context and type of saturated fat.

      The cholesterol we consume through foods like eggs, seafood, and others, has a minimal impact on the cholesterol circulating in our blood. It's the cholesterol in our blood that's harmful, not the cholesterol we eat. Having up to 7 eggs a week is unlikely to negatively impact health for most people. However, for those with high cholesterol, especially those with high LDL or apolipoprotein B levels, the decision to limit dietary cholesterol should be based on the potential benefits of foods like eggs as a satiating breakfast versus the potential downsides. The type of saturated fat is also important, with some types, like stearic acid, having a neutral effect on cholesterol levels. The food matrix, or how the food is delivered, also plays a role, with fermented dairy products, like cheese and yogurt, having neutral or even beneficial effects despite containing the same saturated fats as butter. It's essential to consider the whole food and its context in our diet rather than focusing solely on individual nutrients.

    • Understanding Nutrition: Fiber and BeyondFocus on fiber as an essential nutrient, but remember individual responses to food and nutrients vary based on genetics, age, sex, menopause status, microbiome, and how food is consumed.

      The world of nutrition is complex and nuanced, with many misconceptions and conflicting beliefs. Fiber is an essential nutrient that everyone should focus on, but the role of other nutrients, like saturated fats, is not as clear-cut. Some people may be able to tolerate high saturated fat diets without negative effects on their blood work due to genetic differences. However, it's important to consider the entirety of an individual's diet and lifestyle when interpreting their health data. Giving food-based advice rather than focusing on individual nutrients may be more helpful for the public. The variability in how people respond to different foods and nutrients is significant, and genetics only explain a small part of this variability. Factors such as age, sex, menopause status, microbiome, and how food is consumed also play a role.

    • How and when we eat matters for our healthEating more slowly and adjusting meal timing can help reduce calorie intake, lower visceral adiposity, and improve overall health

      The way we eat can significantly impact how our bodies respond to food, beyond just what we eat. Factors such as eating rate, time of day, meal ordering, and fasting windows all play a role. For instance, eating more slowly can help reduce calorie intake, lower visceral adiposity, and improve overall health. Additionally, the order and timing of meals can impact how our bodies process and utilize nutrients. It's important to remember that everyone responds differently, and what works for one person may not work for another. However, making small changes, like eating more slowly or adjusting meal timing, can provide additional tools for managing weight and improving health.

    • Slow down your eating for better healthSlowing down your eating pace can improve health and reduce energy intake. Try putting down your utensils between bites or using smaller spoons. Studies suggest longer meal times can be effective, but practical constraints may apply.

      Eating more mindfully by slowing down the pace at which we consume our food can lead to improved health and reduced energy intake. This can be achieved by putting your knife and fork down between each mouthful, using a smaller spoon, or even using gadgets like the mandometer or inflatable spoons. Studies suggest that extending meal times from around 10 minutes to 20 minutes can be effective. However, it's important to recognize that not everyone can implement this strategy due to practical constraints like busy schedules. Additionally, there's ongoing research on the impact of nutrient sequencing on blood sugar responses and snacking later in the day, but more research is needed in this area.

    • How breakfast affects our response to food later in the dayEating high carb breakfasts can increase glycemic response to lunch meals, but factors like stress, sleep quality, and eating speed also influence how food impacts our bodies. Continuous glucose monitors offer insights into blood sugar response, but they don't measure overall health.

      The food we consume for breakfast can significantly impact our response to food for the rest of the day. A study conducted on 50 participants showed that those who had high carbohydrate breakfasts, such as mashed potatoes, had a higher glycemic response to their lunch meals compared to those who had other types of breakfasts. This concept illustrates how what we eat earlier in the day can influence our body's response to food later on. However, it's essential to note that this is an emerging area of research, and there's still much to learn. It's also crucial not to focus solely on blood sugar response when considering the effects of food on our bodies. Factors such as stress, sleep quality, and eating speed also play a role. Continuous glucose monitors provide valuable insights into how food impacts our bodies in real-time, but it's important to remember that they only measure one aspect of overall health.

    • Understanding the Power and Considerations of Continuous Glucose MonitorsContinuous Glucose Monitors (CGMs) can provide valuable insights into health patterns, but careful use is necessary to ensure accuracy, reduce health anxiety, and maintain overall health focus.

      Continuous Glucose Monitors (CGMs) can be a powerful tool for behavior change and understanding one's health, but their use requires careful consideration. While they can help individuals identify patterns and make informed dietary choices, there are concerns regarding their accuracy, potential for health anxiety, and the risk of becoming overly focused on glucose levels at the expense of overall health. It's crucial to use this information responsibly and in conjunction with other health data. The debate around CGMs also includes discussions about their availability for individuals with diabetes versus healthy individuals and the potential for unintended consequences such as glucocentrism or unhealthy obsessions with health data. Ultimately, education and proper use are essential for maximizing the benefits of CGMs while minimizing potential risks.

    • Trust your body signals, not just technologyWhile wearable tech and diet tracking can aid understanding health, relying too much on them can be harmful. Trust body signals for hunger and fullness, and allow for occasional indulgences in a balanced lifestyle.

      While wearable technology and diet tracking can be helpful tools for understanding health and wellness, it's important not to rely on them too heavily and to trust our own body signals. Our bodies are capable of telling us when we're hungry or full, and restricting ourselves based on technology alone can be detrimental. The individual experience with food and health varies greatly, and research like the Zoe Method aims to understand these differences to provide personalized dietary advice. Ultimately, a balanced and healthy lifestyle involves listening to our bodies and allowing for occasional indulgences.

    • Understanding individual responses to food through large-scale researchZOE's research of 150,000 individuals reveals the importance of increasing fiber, plant-based foods, and reducing ultra-processed foods. The ZOE Method Study shows significant health improvements from following personalized nutrition plans and app support.

      Large-scale research, like ZOE's Predict studies, is crucial to understanding how different people respond to various foods. With data from 150,000 individuals, ZOE has been able to collect data on a scale of breadth and depth never seen before. The findings suggest that everyone should focus on increasing fiber, plant-based foods, and reducing ultra-processed foods. However, the best way to consume these foods may vary from person to person. To put these findings to the test, ZOE conducted the ZOE Method Study, where they compared following population-based guidelines versus the ZOE program. The study found that those following the ZOE program had significant improvements in weight, waist circumference, triglycerides, and other health measures compared to those following population-based advice. However, a potential criticism of the study was the lack of matching for the app support provided to each group. When analyzing the data, ZOE found that when comparing the most adherent groups, the difference in health improvements was even greater. This suggests that the app support provided by ZOE may play a significant role in the program's success. Overall, the large-scale research conducted by ZOE provides valuable insights into personalized nutrition and the importance of tailoring dietary recommendations to individual needs.

    • Personalized nutrition leads to greater improvements in health metricsPersonalized nutrition, considering various factors beyond glucose, leads to greater improvements in important health metrics like APOB related to heart disease, waist circumference, and comfort in weight for those who are more adherent to the program.

      Personalized nutrition, as demonstrated in the ZOE program study, leads to greater improvements in important health metrics like APOB related to heart disease, waist circumference, and comfort in weight for those who are more adherent to the program. This highlights the potential of personalized nutrition and the importance of considering various factors beyond just glucose. The study was powered for 300 participants, with each arm having 150 complete participants. The discussion also touched on the idea that making dietary advice personalized could increase motivation and adherence, even if the advice itself may have a small impact. Additionally, the idea that precision nutrition might not be the solution for everyone due to societal and economic factors was brought up. Another approach mentioned was stratified nutrition, which groups people based on shared characteristics to guide nutrition in a more targeted way.

    • Stratifying nutrition advice based on age and menopausal statusEffective nutrition advice considers age and menopausal status for personalized recommendations. Younger individuals may benefit from carbs in the morning, while postmenopausal women might need more targeted advice. Focus on overall nutritional quality, reduce processed foods, and increase fiber and unprocessed foods.

      While there are various ways to improve population health, a stratified approach considering factors like age and menopausal status can lead to more effective and accessible advice. For instance, younger individuals may benefit more from having carbohydrates in the morning due to a lower glycemic response. On the other hand, postmenopausal women tend to have a larger blood glucose response to carbohydrates and might benefit from more targeted advice. However, it's essential to remember that no single food or diet can cure menopause symptoms, and overall healthy eating patterns are key. While protein requirements may increase with age, there is still ongoing debate about the specifics, making it a complex topic. The most important thing is to focus on overall nutritional quality, reducing processed foods, and increasing fiber and unprocessed food intake.

    • Protein intake recommendations and the importance of a balanced dietHealthy individuals typically need less than 1.2g/kg of protein daily, and a balanced diet provides enough. Older adults and some groups may need more, and plant-based sources like legumes and tofu are sufficient. CGMs do not necessarily indicate a worse metabolic outcome, and individual factors play a role.

      Protein is currently a popular health topic in the US, and while most people in the UK are getting enough protein from their diets, older individuals and postmenopausal women may require slightly more. For healthy individuals, the recommended daily intake is less than 1.2 grams per kilogram, and supplementation with protein powder is generally unnecessary for those following a balanced diet. However, for those transitioning to more plant-based diets, ensuring adequate protein intake from sources like legumes and tofu is important. The focus on protein as a separate food group, rather than as part of a balanced meal, is a recent trend, and it's essential to remember that a diverse plant-based diet can provide all the necessary nutrients, including protein. Additionally, there is ongoing debate about the correlation between glucose oscillations measured by Continuous Glucose Monitors (CGMs) and metabolic outcomes in people with diabetes. While much evidence comes from studies involving people with diabetes, the evidence to the contrary suggests that CGM readings do not necessarily indicate a worse metabolic outcome, and individual experiences and lifestyle factors play a significant role.

    • The role of glucose response in health outcomesExcessive glucose peaks and troughs increase risk of cardiovascular disease. Focus on fiber, pulses, and dietary diversity for better glucose response.

      Glucose response, specifically the oscillations, time in range, and peaks and troughs, plays a significant role in various health outcomes. While research suggests that dips are important for energy levels and calorie consumption, peaks are linked to inflammation. However, it's unclear which aspect matters more, as there isn't enough evidence yet. What we do know is that excessive peaks and troughs over an extended period increase the risk of cardiovascular disease. The ongoing research in this field is exciting, as new technologies and methods continue to evolve our understanding. For individuals seeking to make dietary choices, a focus on fiber, pulses, and dietary diversity is a practical approach. The speaker's honesty and pragmatism about the evolving nature of nutrition research are reassuring.

    • Affordable High-Quality Options for Mother's DayDiscover Quince for stylish and affordable finds, offering high-end goods at discounted prices with ethical manufacturing practices.

      Even on a budget, we can still treat ourselves and our loved ones to nice things. Whole Foods Market offers affordable yet high-quality options for Mother's Day, such as a bunch of 15 stem tulips for just $9.99 each. For those seeking luxury items without the luxury price tag, Quince is a great alternative. Quince offers high-end goods, including cashmere sweaters and Italian leather bags, at up to 80% off. Plus, Quince ensures ethical and responsible manufacturing practices, making it a guilt-free shopping experience. So, whether it's for Mother's Day or any other special occasion, consider checking out Quince for stylish and affordable finds. Visit quince.com/style for free shipping and 365-day returns.

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    🎬 Watch the podcast on YouTube here

    📱 Download The Doctor’s Kitchen app for free*

    🌐 View full show notes, including guest details, on our website


    *The Doctor's Kitchen App gives you access to all of our recipes, with specific suggestions tailored to your health needs and new recipes added every month. We’ve had some amazing feedback so far and we have new features being added all the time - check it out with a 14 day free trial too.


    Do check out this week’s “Eat, Listen, Read” newsletter, that you can subscribe to on our website - where I send you a recipe to cook as well as some mindfully curated media to help you have a healthier, happier week.


    🥗 Join the newsletter and 7 day meal plan

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    Snacksize 22: A day in the life of a Brain Surgeon

    Snacksize 22: A day in the life of a Brain Surgeon

    Today’s snacksize Doctor’s Kitchen podcast is about the day to day life of a neurosurgeon. I think it’s quite easy to forget about just how traumatic it can be for frontline doctors to deal with the daily reality of death and how to maintain a sane, let alone positive, outlook.


    I sat down with medical Dr Sheri Dewan on episode #204 to talk about her strategies for coping and I wonder if this inspires you to think about how you might take onboard some of these ideas in your week?


    🎬 Watch the podcast on YouTube here


    You can download The Doctor’s Kitchen app for free to get access to our recipes, with specific suggestions tailored to your health needs and new recipes added every month. Start your 14-day free trial here.


    🥗 Join the newsletter and 7 day meal plan

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