Podcast Summary
Jason Fried's Philosophy of Simplicity and Efficiency: Jason Fried, CEO of Basecamp, advocates for focusing on what matters and eliminating distractions. His philosophy is reflected in Basecamp's streamlined design and his popular blog, Signal vs. Noise. He also values the all-in-one nutritional supplement, Athletic Greens, for ensuring proper nutrition.
Jason Fried, the CEO of Basecamp and co-author of several influential business books, strongly advocates for simplicity and efficiency in both business and life. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on what truly matters and eliminating unnecessary distractions. This philosophy is reflected in his company's flagship product, Basecamp, which is a streamlined project management and team communication application. He also shares his thoughts on design, business, and tech through his popular blog, Signal vs. Noise. Additionally, Jason mentioned his admiration for the all-in-one nutritional supplement, Athletic Greens. He views it as a comprehensive solution for ensuring proper nutrition, especially when whole foods aren't readily available. With a wide range of vitamins, minerals, and other ingredients, Athletic Greens can help support immunity, gut health, and energy levels. Currently, Athletic Greens is offering a special deal for Tim Ferriss Show listeners, which includes a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with a subscription purchase. To learn more and take advantage of this offer, visit athleticgreens.com/TFS.
Jason Fried's Deliberate Ignorance: Fried's intentional obliviousness to external influences allows him to sidestep conventional ways and focus on what feels right in each situation, leading to unique perspective and approach to business and life.
Jason Fried, the founder of 37 Signals and Basecamp, is known for his raw and contrarian ideas, which resonates with many people in today's climate. He is "immune to dogma" and questions assumptions, which he attributes to his intentional obliviousness to external influences. He deliberately avoids industry news and structures his life without routines or goals to follow his own path. This deliberate ignorance allows him to sidestep conventional ways of doing things and focus on what feels right in each situation. The quote "comparison is the death of joy" resonates with him, as he doesn't want to measure himself against past goals or compare himself to others. Overall, Fried's unique perspective and approach to business and life have made him a respected figure in the tech industry.
Focusing on the present and delivering great results in short cycles: Instead of setting long-term goals, focus on doing the best job possible in the present and prioritize delivering great results within short cycles. Avoid using KPIs to measure success and instead, enjoy the work and strive to make it better for all involved.
Setting long-term goals may not always be effective because individuals and organizations may change over time. Instead, focusing on doing the best job possible in the present and making decisions based on what's important at the moment can lead to success. For example, at Basecamp, they work in six-week cycles and prioritize delivering great results within that timeframe, rather than setting long-term goals or targets. They also don't use key performance indicators (KPIs) to measure success. Instead, they enjoy the work they do and strive to make their tools better for both their customers and themselves. Ultimately, the reason for their actions is to do a good job and make what they're working on better.
Focus on doing the best work possible, let go of long-term expectations: Experiment with letting go of long-term goals and expectations to find fulfillment and reduce stress in work
Jason Fried, the co-founder of Basecamp, emphasizes the importance of a day-to-day approach to work without being overly focused on long-term goals, expectations, and numbers. He believes in setting out to do the best work possible and letting go of the need to measure up to specific targets. This approach allows for more flexibility and freedom in the work process, reducing potential disappointment and stress. It's important to note that this method may not be suitable for everyone, and what works for Jason and Basecamp might not work for everyone else. However, for those feeling a lack of fulfillment or consistently disappointed with their progress, trying to let go of expectations and focusing on doing the best work possible could be a worthwhile experiment.
Focus on intrinsic motivation and letting go of unnecessary measurements: Identify one small thing to let go of for better focus and balance, prioritize intrinsic motivation, and avoid perverse incentives from excessive measurements.
It's not necessary to measure every aspect of your work or life to be successful. Instead, try identifying one small thing you can let go of without negative consequences and focus on your intrinsic motivation and the appreciation of the craft. This approach can lead to better work and a more balanced perspective. Remember, not everything needs to be measured, and be aware of potential perverse incentives when you do measure. Additionally, consider reevaluating your reading habits to ensure you're not wasting time on things that don't add value to your life. The speaker's example of setting unrealistic running goals for himself and feeling disappointed when not met, illustrates the importance of setting realistic and necessary goals.
Embrace the joy of missing out and focus on the experience: Instead of constantly measuring and comparing ourselves to others, find joy in activities by focusing on the experience itself. Let go of the need to run at a certain pace or stay informed in real time and embrace the 'joy of missing out'.
Finding satisfaction and enjoyment in activities, whether it's running or consuming news, can be more meaningful if we focus on the experience itself rather than constantly measuring and comparing ourselves to others. The speaker shares how he found joy in running by letting go of the need to run at a certain pace and instead focusing on enjoying the experience. Similarly, he found that reading the newspaper once a day instead of constantly consuming news online allows him to stay informed without becoming anxious or consumed by the need to know everything in real time. He encourages embracing the "joy of missing out" and focusing on what truly matters in life. A book that embodies this philosophy is "Seeking Wisdom from Darwin to Mongolia" by Peter Bevelin, which explores the idea of seeking wisdom and understanding the world through experiences rather than constant information consumption.
Appreciating the wisdom of simple thinkers: The speaker values the clear, direct writing style and practical wisdom of figures like Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, and finds inspiration in real-world topics and stoicism for personal growth and emotional control.
The speaker values simplicity and wisdom, particularly from older figures like Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger. He appreciates their clear, direct writing style and the idea that many things in life are not as complicated as we make them out to be. He also enjoys reading about real-world topics, such as biographies and nature, and has recently become interested in stoicism. Stoicism resonates with him because of its focus on personal control and reaction to external events. Negative visualization, a tool within stoicism, is particularly useful for him in preparing for potential negative outcomes and reducing emotional reactivity. Overall, the speaker values practical wisdom, simplicity, and personal control in his reading and life philosophy.
Visualizing worst-case scenarios to reduce anxiety: Imagining potential negative outcomes can help us better cope with challenges by allowing us to assess and plan a response, reducing fear and anxiety.
Engaging in negative visualization, or the practice of contemplating potential worst-case scenarios, can help reduce anxiety and prepare us for potential challenges. By imagining and planning for potential negative outcomes, we can better cope with them if they do occur. This practice can be seen as a metaphorical way of "sitting down" with our fears and understanding exactly how they may manifest. By doing so, we can begin to assess the situation and plan a response, rather than living in constant fear of the ambiguous. This practice has been particularly valuable for those with a high baseline of anxiety, and can help us better prepare for and cope with life's challenges.
Confronting potential negative scenarios through negative visualization: Practicing negative visualization can help clear worries from your mind and provide a sense of relief and control by allowing you to confront and process potential negative scenarios, rather than constantly ruminating on them.
Practicing negative visualization, as described in William B. Irvine's book "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy," can help clear worries from your mind by allowing you to confront and process potential negative scenarios, rather than constantly ruminating on them. This practice can provide a sense of relief and control, and can be particularly effective for those who have a history of getting into trouble or engaging in risky behaviors. The speaker shared a personal example of how this practice helped him manage his worries about his son getting sick, and how it contrasts with the constant, low-grade worry that can be debilitating. The speaker also reflected on his own past experiences of getting into trouble as a young person, and how his love for knives and other dangerous objects played a role in his entrepreneurial spirit. Overall, the discussion highlights the value of facing potential negative scenarios head-on and finding ways to manage worry and uncertainty in a productive and constructive manner.
From army surplus catalogs to entrepreneurial success: Started selling army surplus items from catalogs, learned valuable skills in selling, marketing, and setting prices, faced challenges but continued to pursue entrepreneurship, and now runs a successful business selling desired items to others
The speaker's entrepreneurial journey began at a young age when he discovered a catalog filled with army surplus items and became fascinated with the cool gadgets. He started creating his own catalogs, taking orders from friends, and selling the items for a profit. He used a Mac computer to print out order forms and distribute them. He even used cash on delivery and faked sick days to receive the orders. The speaker then expanded his business by getting a reseller's license and selling electronics. His early experiences taught him valuable skills in selling, marketing, and promoting products, as well as setting prices. Despite getting into trouble selling contraband, the speaker's entrepreneurial spirit continued, leading him to start Base Camp, a company where he still buys or creates the things he wants and sells them to others. The experiences from his childhood paved the way for his successful business career.
Experience with serious consequences: Considering consequences can prevent harmful or reckless behavior and teach important lessons
Consequences matter. The speaker shared an experience from his teenage years where he and a friend played a prank that went too far, leading to serious consequences. The friend believed they had poisoned him, resulting in a stomach pump and involvement from the police. The speaker's parents threatened to send him to boarding school if he got into trouble again. This stern warning was enough to make the speaker reconsider his actions and change his behavior. This experience taught him that there are real consequences to our actions, and it's essential to consider them before engaging in harmful or reckless behavior. The speaker also mentioned that he had a history of questioning authority figures and pushing boundaries, but the consequences of his actions made him realize the importance of respecting rules and boundaries.
Discovering the power of creating something once and selling it multiple times: Creating a product or service and selling it to multiple buyers can lead to financial independence and entrepreneurship. This approach allows you to make money while sleeping and reduces the need to constantly find new clients.
The speaker discovered the power of creating something once and selling it to multiple people, leading to financial independence and a sense of entrepreneurship. This realization came from his experience selling software and receiving payments in the mail, which was different from his previous one-off sales. The software allowed him to make money while sleeping, and he didn't have to find a new client every time. This experience sparked his entrepreneurial spirit and led him to start a software business and eventually freelance website design. The speaker also mentioned that his past experiences, including getting kicked out of Hebrew school, influenced his decision to drop out of college and pursue his entrepreneurial ventures.
Creating for personal satisfaction and sustainability: Turning rejection into motivation and building a business based on personal enjoyment and finding a market can lead to success.
Creating something for personal satisfaction and sustainability, rather than striving for market dominance, can lead to success. Jason Fried, the founder of Basecamp, shares how he turned rejection into motivation and built his business based on this philosophy. He learned that making something he enjoyed and finding a market for it was more important than trying to dominate an industry. This mindset is reflected in his music cataloging system and his approach to web design. Rejection, rather than being a negative force, fueled his determination and passion to prove himself wrong. Additionally, Fried emphasizes the importance of transmuting negative responses into something helpful and not letting anger or resentment hinder progress.
Using criticism as motivation: The speaker turns criticism into fuel for success, using past experiences of hateful comments and slurs as motivation to prove themselves right or to succeed. They value their time and prioritize commitments that align with their interests, focusing on avoiding hassles and being honest about their desires.
The speaker has a unique response to criticism or rejection – instead of being offended or upset, they use it as motivation to prove themselves right or to succeed. They've always had this reaction, even when faced with hateful comments or slurs, and they attribute it to their upbringing. Another characteristic of the speaker is their dislike for wasting time. They prioritize saying no to commitments that don't align with their interests and focus on avoiding hassles. They believe in being honest about their desires and not feeling obligated to please others.
Honesty about availability prevents regret and opens opportunities: Being honest about your availability and limitations, even when declining invitations, can prevent regret and open up new opportunities. Use polite and honest language when declining, and be clear about your reasons.
Being honest about your availability and limitations, even if it means declining invitations or commitments far in advance, can help prevent regret and allow for more opportunities in the future. The speaker emphasizes that it's important to understand that saying yes to something far in advance may prevent you from exploring other options that might be more appealing to you in the moment. They suggest using polite and honest language when declining invitations, such as expressing appreciation for the invitation while explaining that you can't commit that far ahead. The speaker also shares that being clear and honest about your reasons, such as personal preferences or scheduling conflicts, can help build understanding and respect from the person making the invitation. Ultimately, the goal is to prioritize your own needs and interests while being considerate of others.
Effective Communication: Protecting Attention and Time: Clear communication saves time and resources, preventing repetition and frustration. Buffett's strict meeting policies and Basecamp's hiring criteria for clear writing demonstrate its importance.
Effective communication, both written and verbal, is essential for productivity and efficiency. Warren Buffett's supposedly strict meeting policies serve as an example of the importance of protecting one's attention and time. Buffett's approach also highlights the value of clear writing, given the increasing prevalence of written communication. As a remote company, Basecamp places a high priority on clear writing as a hiring criteria for every position. Inefficient communication can lead to repetition and frustration, and clear writing helps prevent these issues. Additionally, setting boundaries and prioritizing one's time is a learned skill, and it's crucial to defend it as vigorously as we do our possessions. By communicating effectively and respecting each other's time, we can build stronger relationships and achieve greater success.
Evaluating Writing Skills in the Hiring Process: Basecamp values effective communication through writing, assigns projects to evaluate designer's thought process, and considers strong writing skills a reliable indicator of success.
Effective communication through writing is a crucial factor in the hiring process at Basecamp. The cover letter serves as the initial point of contact, allowing potential candidates to introduce themselves, explain their motivations, and demonstrate their ability to advocate for their ideas. This written communication extends to all positions, as even technical roles require clear and persuasive writing. When hiring designers, Basecamp goes a step further by assigning them projects and asking for explanations of their thought processes. This approach allows the hiring team to evaluate the candidates' understanding of their work and their ability to articulate their reasoning, which is essential for collaboration and problem-solving within the team. Ultimately, strong writing skills are a reliable indicator of success at Basecamp.
Basecamp values thought process over perfection in design interviews: Basecamp hiring managers prioritize understanding a candidate's design thought process and ability to defend decisions, rather than the final product's perfection.
During the interview process at Basecamp, the hiring manager is more interested in the thought process and reasoning behind a candidate's design than the perfection of the final product. The manager encourages candidates to present their work in any way they choose, as long as they can explain why they made certain design decisions. The hiring process values real, constructive criticism and the ability to defend design choices. Confidence and self-awareness are also important qualities, as demonstrated by a recent hire who acknowledged her uncertainty about her design. Overall, the interview process prioritizes the candidate's approach to design and their ability to communicate their ideas effectively.
Looking beyond visuals to assess a candidate's thought process: Assessing a candidate's problem-solving abilities and communication skills goes beyond their visual work. Interview techniques like questioning their thought process and evaluating their written communication or customer service experience can provide valuable insights.
During the hiring process, it's essential to look beyond just the visual aspects of a candidate's work and consider their approach and ability to explain their thought process. This introspection demonstrates a deeper understanding of their work and the reasoning behind their decisions. During interviews, pushing back with questions can help gauge a candidate's understanding and flexibility. Red flags include defensiveness and unwillingness to explain the thought process behind their work. A company's values, such as written communication and customer service experience, can also provide insights into a candidate's problem-solving abilities and communication skills. Matt Mullenweg of Automattic, for example, values written communication highly and uses text-based interviews to assess candidates. At Basecamp, every employee rotates through customer service to ensure they have a deep understanding of the customer experience. These practices not only evaluate a candidate's communication skills but also provide valuable insights into their problem-solving abilities and empathy towards users.
Effective writing is crucial for customer service: Improve writing skills through resources like 'Revising Prose' and practice, as clear communication is essential for excellent customer service
Effective communication, particularly in writing, is essential for excellent customer service. This means understanding the customer's needs and expectations, and being able to articulate clear and concise responses. Automatic, a company that values strong writing skills, even incorporates writing assessments into their hiring process. To improve writing abilities, consider resources like the book "Revising Prose" by Gerald Graff, which focuses on analyzing and simplifying sentences. Additionally, practicing writing at various lengths and levels of resolution can help clarify ideas and hone in on the most important information. Unfortunately, many educational institutions do not adequately teach writing skills, instead focusing on lengthy assignments without proper editing. Embracing iteration and continuously refining work is a valuable skill in the professional world, but one that is often overlooked in traditional educational settings.
The value of revising and improving work: Revising work leads to better grades and clearer thinking. Tom Petty's song lyrics show the power of clear and concise communication. Learn to write with precision and clarity to improve your work.
The ability to revise and iterate on work is valuable and should be incorporated more into education. The speaker recalls an experience in college where they were able to revise their writing extensively with the help of a renowned professor, leading to improved grades and a clearer thinking process. They also mention the efficiency and effectiveness of Tom Petty's song lyrics as an example of the power of clear and concise communication. The speaker advocates for the importance of being able to revisit and improve work, and the value of learning to write with precision and clarity. The speaker also suggests the books "Revising Prose" by Richard A. Lanham and "Draft Number Four" by John McPhee as resources for those interested in improving their writing skills.
Appreciating simplicity through songwriting and vintage items: Songwriting and collecting vintage items provide unique ways to appreciate the power of simplicity, with Bob Dylan's lyrics and vintage watches offering endless curiosity and value through their rich history and design.
Both songwriting and collecting vintage items, such as watches, offer unique ways to appreciate the economy of language and the beauty of design, respectively. Bob Dylan is a celebrated songwriter known for his powerful storytelling with minimal words, while vintage watches, like his favorite chairs, offer endless curiosity with their various designs, styles, and the combination of art, science, and engineering. Both Dylan's lyrics and vintage watches serve as reminders of the richness and depth that can be found in simplicity. The age and patina on these items add character and a sense of history, making them even more intriguing and valuable.
Speaker's Fascination with Mechanical Watches: Mechanical watches, like the Rolex Milgauss 6541, Patek Philippe anti-magnetic, and Omega Seamaster Polaris, represent a connection to the past through their longevity and craftsmanship.
Despite the disposable nature of most modern items, mechanical watches hold a unique appeal due to their longevity and ability to connect us to the past. The speaker's fascination with these watches led them to mention three specific models: the Rolex Milgauss 6541 from 1958, a Patek Philippe anti-magnetic watch, and the Omega Seamaster Polaris from 1968. These watches, built for scientists and divers respectively, showcase the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the past. If given the opportunity for a TED talk on personal obsessions, the speaker would share their passion for prairie restoration, a hobby that connects them to nature and the land.
Restoring prairies is a slow process: Passionate about restoring prairies, the speaker finds reward in lengthy process of bringing land back to natural state despite slow growth
Restoring prairies is a rewarding but slow process. The speaker was initially drawn to the beauty of a piece of land, but soon realized it was overrun with invasive species and weeds due to modern farming practices. He became passionate about prairie restoration, which involves bringing the land back to its natural state. Prairies are the most endangered natural habitats in the United States, with only a small amount remaining. The process of restoring a prairie is lengthy and involves removing invasive species, exposing seeds in the soil, and waiting for the prairie to grow. Prairie plants invest most of their energy in their roots during the first few years, making it frustrating that there's little visible growth for an extended period. Despite the slow progress, the speaker finds the process incredibly rewarding and is even on a mission to buy adjacent land and restore it to its natural state. This project not only allows him to appreciate the beauty of nature but also provides a counterbalance to the fast-paced world.
Nature's pace and resilience: Provide the right conditions for nature to thrive and be patient as it accomplishes growth in its own time, applicable to various aspects of life.
Nature has its own pace and resilience, and if we provide the right conditions, it will thrive. The speaker shared his experience of restoring his land and observing the natural process of new plant species, insects, birds, and even fish emerging. He emphasized that nature is never in a hurry but accomplishes everything in its own time. This concept can be applied to various aspects of life, including setting conditions for positive emergent properties and understanding the importance of patience. The speaker also drew parallels between nature, prayer/restoration, business building, and gut health, highlighting the significance of creating the right conditions for growth while also preventing the growth of unwanted elements.
Freedom to focus on sustainable growth: Bootstrapping allows businesses to prioritize profitability and long-term success over investor returns, fostering sustainable growth and fair decision-making.
Having the freedom to run a business without external pressures and focusing on creating sustainable conditions for growth can lead to long-term success. David and his team have achieved this by being fully bootstrapped and focusing on profitability rather than returns for investors. He draws parallels between this approach and nature, where conditions are set for things to thrive and prevent unwanted elements. A memorable quote that resonates with him is "The fairest rules are those to which everyone would agree if they did not know how much power they would have," emphasizing the importance of fairness and equality in decision-making. If David could put a message on a giant billboard, it would be the word "Billboard" itself, as a reminder of the power and potential of clear communication.
The importance of recognizing different perspectives and not overlooking the beauty in the details: Recognize the value of various perspectives and take time to appreciate the hidden beauty in everyday moments, not just the quantifiable aspects of life.
It's essential to recognize the importance of different perspectives and that not everyone has the same information or experiences. Rules and power dynamics shape our world, but it's crucial not to overlook the beauty and value in the details and moments often missed in the rush to move forward. As Albert Schweitzer said, "Men fail to see the flowers that blossom at their feet." A powerful reminder from a conversation that also included the quote, "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted," by William Bruce Cameron. An experience at the Philip Johnson glass house in Connecticut further emphasized this idea when an older Japanese man showed the speaker that taking time to slow down and observe the world around us can reveal hidden beauty.
The Joy of Unexpected Encounters and Appreciating the Present Moment: Meeting a kind and knowledgeable individual can lead to profound insights and a reminder to embrace the joy of missing out and appreciate the little things in life. Check out Jason Fried's new YouTube channel 'Getting Real' for more insights on design, coding, and writing.
Sometimes the most meaningful interactions in life come from unexpected encounters with kind and knowledgeable individuals. This was exemplified in a story shared by Jason Fried about a Japanese garden expert he met in San Francisco who took the time to explain the joy of appreciating the present moment and the beauty around us. This encounter left a lasting impression on Jason and served as a reminder to embrace the joy of missing out and appreciate the little things in life. Jason also mentioned his new YouTube channel, "Getting Real," where he and his business partner David Heinemeier Hansson share their design, coding, and writing processes. He suggested starting with his article "I've Never Had a Goal" as a good introduction to his work. Overall, the conversation highlighted the importance of mindfulness, living in the present, and the value of sharing knowledge and experiences with others.
Discover Tim Ferriss's weekly digest and website recommendations: Sign up for Tim Ferriss's Five Bullet Friday email list for weekly discoveries, use WordPress.com for easy website creation with great SEO, and consider trying Peloton for indoor cycling and social competition
Tim Ferriss, the host of the Tim Ferriss Show, encourages listeners to sign up for his Five Bullet Friday email list to receive a weekly digest of his favorite discoveries and ponderings. He also highly recommends using WordPress.com for website creation due to its ease of use, wide range of templates, and excellent SEO, as well as the fact that it's used by many well-known websites. Additionally, Tim shares his positive experience with Peloton, an indoor cycling bike that offers live and on-demand classes, real-time performance tracking, and a social aspect with leaderboards and competition with friends. Overall, Tim emphasizes the importance of staying informed, trying new things, and making the most of technology to improve one's life.
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