Podcast Summary
A Comprehensive Solution for Digital Agencies: Payload CMS offers an ORM, admin UI, authentication, REST API, GraphQL API, roles and users, and migrations all in one package, saving time and resources for digital agencies
Payload CMS offers a unique solution for developers by providing an ORM, admin UI, authentication, REST API, GraphQL API, roles and users, and migrations all in one package. Scott and Wes discussed how they had previously built their own admin UIs for their projects, but with Payload, they could have saved time and resources. James Migrid, from Payload, explained that he founded the platform to provide a more comprehensive solution for digital agencies, who often need to build admin panels for various projects, but require additional features that other headless CMSs couldn't offer. By combining these features, Payload aims to be a one-stop solution for building and maintaining digital products efficiently.
Payload goes beyond CMS for backend infrastructure: Payload is a versatile platform for managing backend infrastructure, including user authentication, access control, business logic, and an admin panel.
Payload is more than just a Content Management System (CMS). It's a platform designed to handle the entire backend infrastructure, including user authentication, access control, business logic, and even an admin panel. The creator emphasized that they are moving away from the "CMS" label as their customers use Payload for a wide range of applications beyond websites and blogs. They also discussed the challenges of inventing a new word or paradigm in the industry and the potential issues with over-marketing and branding. Payload is not just for content editing; it's also essential for technical teams who need bulk editing, nice interfaces, and the ability to perform technical tasks inside an admin panel. It's a bridge for maintaining and managing applications, including the underlying infrastructure.
Building Backend Services with Payload: Strong Typing and Ease of Use: Payload is an open-source platform for building backend services using TypeScript, focusing on strong typing and ease of use within a React framework, allowing for efficient refactoring and infrastructure development, and exporting dynamic types for seamless front-end integration.
Payload is an open-source, JavaScript and TypeScript-based platform for building backend services with a focus on strong typing and ease of use. The tech is MIT licensed and can be deployed anywhere that supports Docker. Payload's core functionality includes defining data types and access control in TypeScript, as well as handling hooks and components, all within a React framework. Payload's strong typing and TypeScript foundation have allowed for efficient refactoring and infrastructure development. Additionally, Payload exports dynamic types from collections for use in the front end, providing a seamless experience for engineers. The platform's emphasis on strong typing and ease of use sets it apart, making it a valuable tool for building and managing backend services.
The team chose Drizzle as their ORM for relational databases due to its SQL conventions, automatic joins, TypeScript migrations, and schema generation.: The team selected Drizzle for its adherence to SQL, automatic joins, TypeScript migrations, and schema generation, which improved their development process and performance by maintaining a single schema and avoiding SQL migrations.
The team behind a content management system (CMS) chose Drizzle as their ORM for relational databases due to its adherence to SQL conventions, automatic joins, support for TypeScript migrations, and ability to programmatically generate schemas at dev time. These features were crucial for the team as they required a high level of performance, a shift from MongoDB to PostgreSQL, and a desire for a better developer experience (DX). The team had evaluated several ORMs, including Prisma, Knex, and Kiseley, but ultimately found that Drizzle was the best fit for their needs. By using Drizzle, they were able to maintain a single schema and avoid the need for SQL migrations, which was a significant improvement in their development process. While they still maintain their MongoDB implementation, the integration of Drizzle has proven to be elegant and effective.
Payload uses adapter pattern for simplifying database connections: Payload simplifies database management with adapter pattern, allowing separate installations for CMS and database adapters, and offering faster performance with local API access
Payload, a headless CMS, uses an adapter pattern for managing data access and connections to different databases. This means installing separate packages for the payload and the specific database adapter, which simplifies dependencies and eliminates the need for multiple MongoDB drivers or other database tools. Payload supports various front-end frameworks and can be used with a local API for direct database access, providing faster and more efficient performance. The CMS also offers a REST API and GraphQL API for accessing data, but using the local API directly is typically recommended for server-side queries. The goal is to make managing and deploying the CMS, particularly for Next.js projects, simpler and more streamlined in the future.
Simplifying web development workflows: Discussed the trend towards simpler web development workflows, using SvelteKit and Prisma as an example, emphasizing the ease of managing front and back end with one folder and seamless type flow, and the importance of server components and simpler CMS solutions.
There's a trend towards simpler workflows in web development, moving away from the complexity of maintaining multiple services for a single web app. This was highlighted in a discussion about building a new website using SvelteKit and Prisma, where the front end and back end could be managed with just two files in the same folder. The ease of having types flow seamlessly from the back end to the front end was also emphasized, reducing the need for repetitive schema validation and interface writing. The move towards simpler workflows was also mentioned in relation to the use of Next.js for internal payload architecture, and the importance of server components in clearly separating client and server code. The CMS world was also mentioned as an area where this trend is evident, with companies trying to provide page builders for non-technical users while still allowing developers to write React components. Overall, the consensus was that this simplification would lead to more efficient and manageable development processes.
Trend towards visual editors and React components collaboration: Explore flexible HTML attribute approach for decoupling editors from specific techs, allowing advanced editing features while supporting multiple front-end languages.
There's a trend towards allowing marketers and developers to work together more seamlessly using visual editors and React components, but it's important to avoid overly coupling these tools to specific technologies like React. Instead, a more flexible approach using HTML attributes to connect data and the front-end framework of choice is being explored. This approach, which involves opting in as an engineer and using a payload script to render custom components, allows for advanced editing features like uploads, layouts, relationships, and rich text, while still supporting various front-end languages. However, implementing this solution is a complex undertaking. A common challenge is deciding whether to let app users access the Payload admin UI or build a custom UI within the application itself. In many cases, the Payload admin panel is designed to be used by end-users, making it a dynamic and adaptable solution to access control.
Payload CMS makes admin components available for front-end devs: Payload CMS is creating a component library for server and client use, with documentation, to simplify form building and reduce repetitive tasks for developers
Payload CMS is working on making their admin panel components available for front-end developers to use, in order to reduce the need for custom server-side code and improve productivity. This component library will include server and client components, with full documentation, and will cover complex form functionalities like arrays, drag and drop, filter, and conditional logic. The goal is to make it easier for developers to focus on creating unique and effective web applications, rather than spending time on repetitive tasks like building custom forms. This initiative is part of Payload CMS's move towards Next.js, and is a response to common requests from the community for ways to eliminate server-side code and custom components in the admin panel. Ultimately, the aim is to streamline the development process and make building web apps more fulfilling.
A user-friendly solution for building and deploying projects with enterprise features: Payload Cloud is a user-friendly infrastructure for developers and agencies, offering enterprise features and serving as a lower barrier of entry for building SaaS products with a focus on cohesive solutions for endpoints, GraphQL, access control, and admin UI.
Payload Cloud is a user-friendly solution for developers and agencies looking to build and deploy projects without managing infrastructure, especially in enterprise contexts where specific features like Salesforce connectors and publication workflows are required. Payload Cloud is not the primary revenue driver for the company but serves as a lower barrier of entry. It allows hosting of front-end applications along with data, and though it's not serverless, it can be combined with servers. The JavaScript community's lack of a unified solution like Laravel for building SaaS products is discussed, with the admin panel being a crucial aspect. The goal is to create a cohesive solution for endpoints, GraphQL, access control, and a generated admin UI, which is what Payload is working towards. The founder expresses a desire to drop the CMS aspect due to potential stigma.
Managing Open-Source Projects: Challenges and Opportunities: Effective management and collaboration are crucial for open-source projects to thrive. Successful collaborations include server-side hot module reload and Vite support. Confusion about contributing and maintaining projects on GitHub is common, and the speaker expresses a need to improve in this area.
Open-source projects come with unique challenges, particularly when it comes to managing contributions from a community. The speaker in this discussion expresses excitement about the potential of their project, which includes headless components and logic for updating and validating. They acknowledge the work involved and the need for revenue to sustain the company, while also appreciating the contributions from their community. However, managing these contributions and keeping the project on track can be a moving target. The speaker admits that they need to improve in this area and shares examples of successful collaborations, such as server-side hot module reload and Vite support. They also express confusion about the GitHub experience of contributing and maintaining the project. The speaker also touches on GitHub's shift towards AI and wonders about its potential implications. Overall, the speaker values the open-source community and the contributions it brings, but recognizes the need for effective management and collaboration to keep the project moving forward.
GitHub's Copilot now available for pull requests and its impact on unique content: GitHub's Copilot aids developers in reviewing code changes, but excessive use may lead to saturated market and loss of human creativity. Balance needed. Payload, a TypeScript framework, plans to expand with funding next year and seamlessly integrates with Sentry for error tracking.
GitHub's AI-powered tool, Copilot, is now available for pull requests and is helping developers review and summarize changes made in the codebase. However, there are concerns about the potential for excessive use of AI-generated content, leading to a saturated market and a lack of unique, human-written content. The speaker emphasizes the importance of finding a balance in utilizing AI features while maintaining the value of human creativity. The speaker also mentions that Payload, a company they are involved with, is financially stable and plans to look for funding next year to expand their team and fulfill their vision of providing a TypeScript equivalent to popular frameworks like Laravel and Rails. Additionally, they highlighted the seamless integration of Sentry's performance monitoring and error tracking tool with Payload.
Exploring Hidden Features in a Familiar Tool: Users can uncover new functionalities in tools they've used casually, enhancing productivity and problem-solving abilities. Unearthing missing syntax can resolve abstract errors.
The user was pleasantly surprised by the depth and functionality of a tool they had been using on a surface level. They discovered new features, such as the network panel, console, and timeline scrubbing, which helped them identify and fix a bug. The missing question mark in optional chaining was the cause of the abstract error. The user is a minimalist who prefers using an Apple laptop, keyboard, and Razer gaming mouse within the same ecosystem. They also shared their experience of discovering Malort, a Chicago-native liquor, and how it has become a part of their identity. If they had to start coding from scratch, they would choose TypeScript and focus on the front end due to the increasing complexity in that area.
Learning Web Development with TypeScript: Start Small and Stay Patient: Start with TypeScript for front-end web development, don't be intimidated, pace yourself, and stay patient. Look forward to improvements in the bundler ecosystem and the closing gap between ESM and CommonJS.
The speaker recommends starting with learning the front end of web development using TypeScript, and not getting intimidated by the vast amount of new concepts to learn. He suggests pacing oneself and not comparing oneself to more experienced developers. He is excited about the future of web development, specifically the resolution of the bundler ecosystem and the closing of the gap between ESM and CommonJS. He also encourages listeners to check out his project, Payload, on GitHub to help gain more visibility for the project. Overall, the speaker emphasizes the importance of perseverance and patience in learning web development.
