Episode 5: Dating as an Entrepreneur w/AJ Johnson
Get ready for a candid and relatable conversation on this episode of "Build The Damn Thing" Season 3! Host Kathryn Finney opens up about a theme that strikes a chord with many: "Dating as an Entrepreneur." Join us as we explore the unique challenges, triumphs, and insights that come with balancing the entrepreneurial journey and romantic relationships.
In a world where entrepreneurship demands dedication, innovation, and unwavering focus, finding love and maintaining meaningful relationships can be a thrilling yet complex adventure. In this episode, Kathryn is joined by celebrity hair stylist and designer AJ Johnson, who has navigated the intricacies of dating while pursuing business ambitions.
Guests:
AJ Johnson
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Kathryn Finney
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Credits:
Produced by Genius Guild Content Studios
Executive Producers: Kathryn Finney and Darlene Gillard Jones
Post-Production Company: Copper Media Group
Post-Production Manager: Darlene Gillard Jones
Post-Production Sound Editor: Mert
Music Supervisor: Darlene Gillard Jones and Mert
Main Show Theme Music: "Self Motivated" Written & Performed by Tamara Bubble
Music in the order of appearance:
"Self Motivated" Written & Performed by Tamara Bubble
“Confusion” by HoliznaCC0
“Guitar Beat” by Kirk Osamayo
Source: Free Music Archive
License: Creative Commons 4.0 Int'l
“Bitchez (Instrumental)” by Yshwa
Source: Free Music Archive
License: CC BY-SA
“Movement” by HoliznaCC0
Full Transcript:
Kathryn Finney:
In a world where entrepreneurship demands dedication, finding love and maintaining meaningful relationships can be a thrilling, yet very complex adventure. In this episode, I'll be joined by my friend celebrity hairstylist, AJ Johnson, who has navigated the intricacies of dating or pursuing business ambitions, and also has been privy to many a conversations about the challenges of being in these dating streets. Join us as we bring all the tea from the salon to the podcast.
Why? Welcome to this episode of The Thing I Am Here today. I call him the Mayor of Chicago. He literally knows everyone in Chicago and everyone knows him. And Mr. AJ Johnson. How are you sir?
AJ Johnson:
Hello, Kathryn. Wonderful.
Kathryn Finney:
It's so great to be with you. We're gonna be talking about dating and entrepreneurship. Oh,
AJ Johnson:
Great. Great.
Kathryn Finney:
It's a topic. That's,
AJ Johnson:
That's a great topic. Yeah, that's a great topic. You and
Kathryn Finney:
I did a lot of work
AJ Johnson:
Together. Yes, yes, exactly. Some of my
Kathryn Finney:
History.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah, I know a little, but, uh, I am a hairdresser, so I give . You get
Kathryn Finney:
A lot of hair.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. All of hair
Kathryn Finney:
Provisions. You get all bit. And so before we dive into that, let's talk a little bit about you. So, you know, you, you were born and
AJ Johnson:
Raised. I was born and raised in Chicago. I'm from, actually from the west side of Chicago. Oak Park. Right? Oak Park, yeah. Outta Oak Park. Yeah. I moved to Oak Park. I moved to Oak Park, like in high school. Okay. But originally from like the West side, that's where my family's from, and we moved to Oak Park.
Kathryn Finney:
Um, what does it mean to be from the west side?
AJ Johnson:
Well, the west side is definitely, you're gonna be well-rounded. You're gonna have definitely street smarts. Yeah, for sure. Um, they, they have a little bit more of a hustle mentality. Yeah. But it's, it's a very, it's a community though. 'cause they're very, yes. They're very family oriented. So, and that's why when you hear about the crimes and most of the stuff, even on the west side, it's not as much crime. Yeah. Because they're, everybody is kind of like, connected. It's not like a six degree separation there. It's more like a two degree separation, or that's your cousin, or that's your aunties or, you know, your baby father's knees or all that. Yeah. So it's not, so that's, they, it's just that they're a little bit more family oriented. They have a lot of hustle mentality, but allegedly they say like the, the west side people are a little more ostentatious.
You know, sometimes they could put a little too much on little, a little extra stuff. Yeah. A little extra. Yeah. They put a little extra onto it. Right. Little pepper. Right. Yeah. And the little girls could be a little bit more feisty. Okay. Yeah. That's what it is. That's, that's the west side. That, so there's some good qualities that I love being from the west side that I learned as a youngster, you know, and one, you know, being resilient and that hustle mentality and to, and to respect, you know, family and friends, you know, that part.
Kathryn Finney:
So I, I bring up the, the reason why I always like, like to ask people about the different parts of Chicago is a lot of people don't know Mm-Hmm. that Chicago has so many different sides to it. Exactly. Um, I was talking to someone and they didn't un know that Chicago was the third largest city in the United States. Oh, oh,
AJ Johnson:
Oh, exactly.
Kathryn Finney:
Yes. Um, and so there's 3 million people that live inside the city. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. , we wanna include this number the
AJ Johnson:
Surrounding areas. Right, exactly.
Kathryn Finney:
And so, and each side of Chicago has a very distinct sort of feel to it and vibe very much like New York, you know, if you're from Brooklyn versus the Bronx versus Manhattan. And so it's really important, you know, for me to talk to you about that. Of course. Especially, you know, as you come up. So you, you come up, you're in the west side. Mm-Hmm. you graduated from high school. What was your first sort of career that you were into?
AJ Johnson:
Okay, so, uh, I'm, and I'm, and I just really have to be totally transparent here. I'm not a typical west side, African American, little black boy. Yeah. I'm like, I was a little bit more creative. Yeah. I was a, I'm, I'm a Pisces, so I'm a dreamer, I imagine. Yeah. And I pretty much knew that I just wouldn't be, you know, like the most of the other guys that I hung around with, my counterpart that was in my same class, whatever like that, like the things that interest them, like Michael Jordan, all that, that was just not my thing, you know? Yeah. So I was always fascinated with, um, fashion and beauty. So that's kind of weird for a black, it's some
Kathryn Finney:
Nike Chicago.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. So they don't understand. They'd be like, what? Like, I mean, maybe some, maybe non-black people might have little boys might have did what I did and maybe embraced it. But it was like, it was a very different thing at that time. You know, you wearing
Kathryn Finney:
Gucci
AJ Johnson:
Or Right, right. Wearing Gucci and interested in designer and knowing, you know, about models and girls on billboards and you know, like, 'cause they're like, who is that? You know? They don't know a singer or know a or maybe a TV personality, but like a exotic model, Iman or somebody from another country. They're like, who is that? You know? And, and you know, they didn't understand that. But I always was a little different, even as like, I was a, even as a child, like when it was on picture day, everybody like, oh, I wanna go get a new Simon new Jordans or give me a new suit. I'm like, well, I'm going to get a shirt made.
Kathryn Finney:
But you had this inner spirit. Mm-Hmm. , you had this idea of yourself. Mm-Hmm. . Right. And that's really what it
AJ Johnson:
Was. Yeah. It was all
Kathryn Finney:
Aspect of yourself. Exactly. That was, was not necessarily something that someone told you. Right. You had it. Exactly. You are a public person,
AJ Johnson:
Right, right.
Kathryn Finney:
Mm-Hmm. . And you, you style public people and
AJ Johnson:
Public people, right?
Kathryn Finney:
Yes. And so what are some of the things, and you, not only to style public people, but you style a lot of women who are leaders. Yeah.
AJ Johnson:
And, and ev Yeah. Yeah. Even very successful business women, you know? Yes. You just, so all kind of women, you know? So, you know, people write books, people who produce shows,
Kathryn Finney:
People think. So what do you hear as like the, what's the biggest com, you know, in your chair? Mm-Hmm. . What is the, some of the things you hear the most? Like, it's sort of gripe from your client.
AJ Johnson:
Okay. What I hear the most is, and because I do have a large percentage of single women, even they're single now at this age. 'cause I've probably been doing it for 30 years, but they might have been married, they might have been recently divorced as you know that story. Yeah, I know that story. But you know. Exactly. So, um, and some of my, and some of and some of my clients have been, you know, married to like some of the wealthiest men ever. You know, they get, you know, they get alimony, they do what they wanna do. But what I find the most is because they, you know, pretty much like you, you know, they got married right outta college. They married, they some high school sweethearts, some, you know, they're, you know Yeah. The guy that grew up next to them or their parents put them together, whatever.
But this is like, you know, nice, decent Ivy League smart women. Yeah. And so-called smart men, or you know, they look good on paper if nothing else. Yep. Now not, you know, so, but sometime with dating and marrying powerful men, they have an tendency to have a strong appetite and they can get a lot of other women and do a lot of things. But if you're married to them, you just stay at home. Yeah. At your beautiful house. You raise the kids, you go to the Jack and Jill, you do Right. You play position, you do that. But a lot of the women are not fulfilled. So that would be the question that, for the concern that most of the women, yeah. They're like, even though aesthetically, like they look good, their house look good. Christmas pictures come out, they send around perfect look family, whatever. That's perfect. Family, but still. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. But still there's a void. I mean, the lady can only shop and go buy so many Hermes bags and try wallet ry. Right. Exactly.
Kathryn Finney:
You ever see my closets like yet? So go there. Um, no, I, I hear you. I think mm-Hmm. , you know, as a black woman, there is a certain level of validation you get Mm-Hmm. , um, for being married. Mm-Hmm. can be married
AJ Johnson:
To, to black. Yes. I agree. I agree.
Kathryn Finney:
And especially married to a black man who has a career, a job. Mm-Hmm. .
AJ Johnson:
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .
Kathryn Finney:
And, um, and there, there's a validation. It doesn't matter how talented or successful you are. Right. I always, uh, bring up Oprah, right? Mm-Hmm. and how everyone would talk. I mean, Oprah, who is the pinnacle of success, and everyone still to this day, grips about, well, she couldn't get stabbed in the marry her. Mm-Hmm. .
AJ Johnson:
Like, like why would Oprah wanna
Kathryn Finney:
Be a step? Is she Oprah?
AJ Johnson:
Right? She's Oprah. Yeah, exactly. But,
Kathryn Finney:
But there's a certain, in our community, there's a certain level of validation. Mm-Hmm. that you get as a black woman. Right. When a black man quote unquote chooses you Mm-Hmm. , right? Mm-Hmm. , whether they're treating you like shit
AJ Johnson:
Or whatever. Exactly. Right.
Kathryn Finney:
Irrelevant.
AJ Johnson:
But you were chosen.
Kathryn Finney:
You were chosen by a black man. And that somehow that gives you credibility and gives you validation was in our community. And so then when you decide that there's more that you want Mm-Hmm. , whatever that may be. Right. Um, even more just to yourself, it is really shocking for people.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. It is. It
Kathryn Finney:
Is. And and I think for a lot of us, we stay in these situations because of the validation. So when you head to dating Mm-Hmm. , you also get that same validation. See
AJ Johnson:
You. Exactly. You know?
Kathryn Finney:
Exactly. Um,
Commercial
Kathryn Finney:
And it is really weird. Like, uh, you know the number of people I've dated who have been like, I've never dated a woman who makes more than me. And I'm always like, well, how much do you know? I, you don't know like you
AJ Johnson:
Google, but they know you come on. Never. You gotta be under a rock and not know if you get, they know you have. I mean, and touch of a button though. Assets.
Kathryn Finney:
Assets, yes. But I'm not like out there being like, Hey, this is how much I bring home.
AJ Johnson:
But it's not hidden neither. It's not, I mean, they have to have to have common obsess, but then you wouldn't be paid
Kathryn Finney:
Care the one device too. Like they can maybe get some idea that at least I have income.
AJ Johnson:
Right. Okay. Right. Exactly. And maybe more than them, which is what I'm saying. Maybe,
Kathryn Finney:
But maybe not. Okay. I mean, like, if you would've, let me just say I paid off some student loans. Mm-Hmm. if you were a union guy. Mm-Hmm. , you know, some of these Chicago's got lot union, right? Oh, of course. Of course. You're a union guy. I remember I dated someone who's union guy. Um, like he, he first told me he worked at the water department, and I'm thinking, you know, water department means he's like reading leaders and stuff. . Now this one is like one of the head engineers. Mm-Hmm. of the big water plant in Chicago, which is one of the largest public works in the world. Mm-Hmm. . Not just even in the United States, in the world that pumps all this water out of like Michigan and waters, you know, Chicago, Northern Indiana. And so if you look at how much they made Mm-Hmm. , I mean like base salary base, like one 50. Right. Um, and then there's overtime. Mm-Hmm. . And because they're essential employees, they have to work, but they have the unions, and then the unions give them, like their mortgage rates are really low and they don't have any student loans. And they've been doing this for 20 years. Mm-Hmm. . And so, and they have like, own like 20 properties, right. Stuff like
AJ Johnson:
That. Right, exactly.
Kathryn Finney:
So I'm like, maybe on a yearly income basis, maybe I make more than you, but like in terms of assets, right. Like, I mean, I dated people who are millionaires. Right, exactly. Like who are legit millionaires.
AJ Johnson:
Exactly. And it's so funny, like, you don't know who I know who the guy you're talking about. I know who the guy is talking about. I know. I'm like, listen to it. I was like, but yeah. Yeah. But so I know, but yeah. But he was fine. Right? Yeah. But I know you got I know. So, so that's what I'm saying. But you are fortunate enough that you know, the guys that you, or they were, they wasn't, they were kind of like on your level or closer to your level or in the category. But then I know some other powerful women like you, and they, the guy does not have any of like, he's the janitor or whatever, or custodian worker or whatever you call, whatever. I don't know. But, but still that they, that's what they're more concerned about, that they don't think that the guy feels like he's belittle.
Like they don't, he don't feel like he's Yeah. Capable and com, you know, capable of having somebody like you or like her, you know, like that. So that's more of the issue that I hear. And then sometime they don't even want to tell me. I'm like, oh, okay. You know, and that's the question that most people ask. 'cause I hate the question, but people are, and so what do they, what does he do? So they about just like, well he works in the, you know, 'cause they, you know, bill, he Right. Yeah. Go stop. I'm like, oh, so he owns a cleaning company, you know, I'm like, yeah. Right. He owns so Right. And then, you know, so, but I could tell that she feels a little, you know, not confident enough to share that with me. We
Kathryn Finney:
Judged. And again, I think it's really interesting 'cause when I talk to younger women, especially like counseling them, and one of the things I talked to him about is, you know, counseling through the, the fantasy of marriage. Mm-Hmm. . Um, it's like, you know, marriage is really hard. I was married for 18 years. Mm-Hmm. . And, and it's not, there's a fantasy that I think a lot of us have particularly black women. Mm-Hmm. women in general, but black women about the wedding, you fantasize the wedding.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. Y'all always love the wedding. I know people who just only worry about the wedding. Oh. Then after that they don't have nothing to
Kathryn Finney:
Do, but not the mayor.
AJ Johnson:
Right. Right. I'm like, you gonna be with him after he walked down on this aisle.
Kathryn Finney:
Right. Your pictures are fabulous. Yeah. But now you have a whole lifetime that been looking this person.
AJ Johnson:
Mm-Hmm. . Right.
Kathryn Finney:
Um, and, and I talked to them about like, sort of, you know, one not looking at income 'cause this whole thing Mm-Hmm. , um, six figure.
AJ Johnson:
Right. The income thing.
Kathryn Finney:
Yes. Like that people talk about. And I'm like, income doesn't matter. It's assets.
AJ Johnson:
Right.
Kathryn Finney:
And say, let me touch to you as an investor. Mm-Hmm. , because you're investing, you're investing your, your early years in this person. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . So don't look at salary. That means nothing that can go away tomorrow. Right. Exactly. And many times it has. Right, right. Look at their assets. Right. Mm-Hmm. . Right. So what do you own? Mm-Hmm. . For me, it's also, um, when I think of people who I'm wanna date, I think of, you know, do you like what you do? Like are you, are you centering joy? Mm-Hmm. . And I know not all women are like that. Mm-Hmm. . But I really would encourage most of us to get to
AJ Johnson:
That place. I agree.
Kathryn Finney:
Especially as an entrepreneur, because this work is so hard. Mm-Hmm. like being an investor, being an entrepreneur, being a public person is very, very difficult. Right. And so I think it's really important that I am, you know, with, um, people and, and someone who is centering joy in their life. Mm-Hmm. , because I, I'm not able to, to bring you, I'm not gonna bring negativity and that, I mean, create joy, but I don't have time or the energy to create joy. Like, for you. Like you need to be creating joy for yourself. Okay. Just like, I don't expect you to create joy for me. Yeah. I create it for myself.
Commercial
Kathryn Finney:
And so, like, are you centering joy? Like if you are a fry
AJ Johnson:
Cook? Mm-Hmm.
Kathryn Finney:
do you enjoy making fries? Are like, do you make the best damn fries? And every time you get up in the morning, you love to go make
AJ Johnson:
Your fry. Okay. So, but okay. I have to say, okay, so with men, that's just different. Yeah. Sometimes men are different. Yeah. They're different. Like, I'm just so happy. I'm very fortunate, very blessed to have all the jobs that I do. I love everything. And I probably would do it for free. Don't tell nobody that I would do it, all of it free. Because Go ahead. Because I like that. But what I'm saying, some of the guys, that's part of being a man. Like even though if he work in a restaurant ever like that, that, so it might not, it is not like it's his best job. But what he do like is that he's providing and he's remaking money and he has a job and he doing, because there's a lot of brothers that don't have jobs. Oh, yeah. You know, so that's what I'm saying.
Right. That's what I'm, I know. We don't know, we don't interact as much with those kind of people, but I do know them. You know, I know those kind of people. Yeah. So I know what you're saying. Like, do you love your job and do it make you happy? Most people jobs, they don't love their job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even I know people who went to medical school who can't stand sick people. Yeah. But they were so far in, they couldn't, they were so far in. I'm like, what do you do now? You might as well finish it now you got it. 'cause there's nothing else you can do. I don't
Kathryn Finney:
Like,
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. I don't even like going to hospital. I like, well, people, I'm like, well, what's too late? I, you are in here now, but you are in it, so you have to go and do that. But what I was saying is that even back to when a guy is, I would say having a mediocre job, whatever it may be, custodial worker, all the, kinda like that. She would sit in there and kind of like, not want to say what he really do. I'm like, but you the happiest you ever been. You look happy, you look good. I'm like, it doesn't matter. And when you were with your rich husband, or your almost fiance who was out here doing everything and sleeping with everybody, and you was miserable and looking for me to come and bring you out and turn up and have a good time. Yeah. You know, that was best. So I
Kathryn Finney:
Think that's the, the thing that you hit on. I, again, there is certain expectations. I think when you are a successful black woman, there is a fantasy Right. Of the man you wanna be with. Mm-Hmm. and what he should look like. Right. And how things should operate. And it's very difficult.
AJ Johnson:
Mm-Hmm. , well must say, I gotta say they do. The man do look like they want him to look. They gonna make sure he look right. Even they about all he gonna look
Kathryn Finney:
, you know? But, but I think there is a pressure, um, and I'll see this as a public person too. Mm-Hmm. , it's a lot of pressure. Like, one of the things like I have anxiety about is that, um, someone's gonna Google me and once they Google me and you see, you know, all the stuff about me, literally, it's like a change in how they like interact with me. So before Google, I'm just, Kathryn the woman, and we're having fun and we're going out. And then they Google me and it's like, oh shit. Like, you know, it's like, oh, oh, one person said, I did not know you were who you are. Mm-Hmm. . I said, but I'm no different like the Google, the, there's a Google Kathryn, and then there's like the Kathryn in person. That's a one dimension of me. A many, many different dimensions, right? Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And so, so that one dimension. Yeah. All that stuff's true. All of that's me. Yes. But then there's also,
AJ Johnson:
Except for the Mary part, 'cause if you Google say you there Right. Does you, are that right? So you just get that. That's clear
Kathryn Finney:
That out. Shout out to my exhusband. I Right. You know, we do, we are successful coping. Yes. But I think, you know, being this public person, um, and dating Mm-Hmm. and finding someone who is quote unquote equally yoked. Mm-Hmm. is very, very, very hard.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. It's very hard. That's, I, that's what, that's what, that's the most common thing that Yeah. All that. Especially, you know, and some of the women I am as successful and powerful as you. And they feel, you know, they, you know, it could be, well she could be the, the makeup artist and Nordstrom's at the counter, you know, and she has the same, you know, issue. I'm like, so it, it varies. But, but what I think it, I, what I'd learned in my older age, you know, as I got go back in my senior year. Yeah. In my senior year, in my forties, in my right, right thirties. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Thirties. So what I learned is that if somebody makes you feel good, like, I mean, and you're, and know, and you, you like spending time with them. Yeah. Accompanying spending it in his, in his presence. And y'all doing whatever. Even if you going to, you know, to dinner, if like, I mean, I definitely think the guy should definitely pay. I'm like, I'm shory. What about
Kathryn Finney:
Cheesecake Factory?
AJ Johnson:
Well, see, look, um, well that girl who was talking about going to Keys said, well, she had on, she could have went the cheesecake. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She could have stayed a Cheesecake Factory. I'm like them please. So, but yeah. So, but if that's what the guy could do, I mean, you don't want to belittle him. And so he won't feel like, like he not doing, 'cause they already think that in the back of Oma anyway, that I'm not worthy of this kind woman.
Kathryn Finney:
So here's the problem I have with Cheesecake Factory situation. And there's, and there's two ways to look at it. One, for me, it's not about the Cheesecake Factory per se. 'cause the Cheesecake Factory is not hidden like it used to. Mm-Hmm. . So the food ain't hidden.
AJ Johnson:
No. It's got, yeah. It's not, it's not to
Kathryn Finney:
Me, but for me it's an indication of laziness. Mm-Hmm. . Because the Cheesecake Factory is not exactly inexpensive. Mm-Hmm. . So there's other really small, nice little places that you can go eat. Right? Mm-Hmm. that are intimate, that cost less than she Hay factory. Agreed. But took some thought. Right. Agreed. Like that. I thought about we could go to a great taco stand. Mm-Hmm. . Agreed.
AJ Johnson:
Agreed.
Kathryn Finney:
Like we can go for a walk and degree tacos name. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . So to me, going to the cheese seek factory is laziness. Mm-Hmm. . Right. And then two, you expect women, I find this with men these days because of social media. You expect women to look a certain way. You expect her to show up a certain way. Mm-Hmm. , it costs a lot of money to get your hair done. Mm-Hmm. hair done, your nails done. Mm-Hmm. to get, waxed to get makeup. All that stuff. Mm-Hmm. . So you, let's say on the conservative end that a woman just spent $300, $400 getting ready for this date. Mm-Hmm. . And you gonna take her to the cheapest, like, simplest place that you can find. Mm-Hmm. . And, and, and that, so for me, that's what it reads. Like I would much rather you be like, we are going to a tackle stand and we're gonna walk on a lake. Mm-Hmm. gonna take a walk on lake. Oh, that sounds great. Mm-Hmm. . I know the best tackle stand in Chicago. I'm gonna take you to it. Or we're gonna get a real Chicago hotdog. Mm-Hmm. . I know you're relatively new to Chicago. Mm-Hmm. . We get a real Chicago hotdog. Mm-Hmm. . Like, you put some thought into it. Mm-Hmm. . And that's the problem I have with the Cheesecake
AJ Johnson:
Factory. And for me speaking for the brothers, the guy, it's like, so not that I would think if he take, I mean if he, because like you say, there is some inexpensive, nice queen little restaurant that's probably called just as equivalent to Cheesecake Factory. Yeah. But it, what the moral of the whole story is, the guy that you're dating, he probably don't even know about small boutique, cute little restaurants or anything like that. So that's what, so really the real moral story is that's not the dude you should be
Kathryn Finney:
Dating.
AJ Johnson:
Right. That's what I'm saying. That's right. And he should know if you getting yourself ready and all that, if you guys communicate and talking and you say, okay, well I'm gonna be ready this 'cause I'm getting my hair done. That mean he know you get everything done
Kathryn Finney:
Google. Everybody got Google.
AJ Johnson:
But dude something guys. So ain't nobody Googling doing anything like that. And normally if, first of all what he should say, I'm taking you out. So you know, you gotta tell you something like, oh, dress up or be like, wear sneakers, don't wear heels. 'cause we go. 'cause if you're gonna go and eat hot dog to walk up and down the navy, p and all that, it's called communication. So it doesn't really matter about you getting dressed up and you overdid yourself to go to Cheesecake Factory.
Kathryn Finney:
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The successful attractive woman, particularly black woman Mm-Hmm. , you know, in, in her forties Mm-Hmm.
AJ Johnson:
Got her back plus 40 and up or whatever, 40 and up. Right. Yeah.
Kathryn Finney:
What are we to do? Okay. Are we supposed to sit at home and
AJ Johnson:
Watch? No. So this is,
Kathryn Finney:
Is Golden Bachelor, whatever.
AJ Johnson:
Oh no. The old man bachelor. Now you only need to do that. No, no. But so what you need to do is, first of all, this is what I recommend to women if they're, you know, newly divorced or been single since, because I know some of 'em never been married in their life. No. And they, at, at that age. But they were, they're very successful at work. Like, you look at them on their resume, at their job or LinkedIn. Right. You be like, oh damn, do you own the company? They is good. Link it. But that's what they did and that's what women did. And they've been doing that since I was a teenager. Even the girls that I wasn't graduating went to college with high school with. They are way more successful than me and most of the other men. But they own it and they're doing it and that's what they're doing.
Yeah. For what they're doing. But there's still a void missing in their romantic life. Like that's, and you know, and they just, they be like, look, I'll get a i'll, they'll get a re date. They'll be like, okay, I need, I got a friend just dress up with tuxedo. I'm gonna, my caja Christmas party, you coming with me, blah, blah, blah. He do all that, blah blah. And then she'd be like, okay, I'm finished now you gone. You can even take the the, I bought you the Tom Ford Tucks. You can have it, you can go. Right. So again, but that's, but they, but it's when you get, and you've been doing that for like 20 years plus. 'cause you've been working like that, you get complacent and be like, I'm good by myself. I don't know how graphic I can get, but they got they little thing and they look dead drawer.
Yeah. They be like, I get this. I'm do this. I'm fine. Good. I'm like, I know girls, women that would be like, I, oh he, I'm gonna tell him to come on over. He can come over to my place. They go over there, they had they little relationships and do whatever. And then she'd be like, okay, you can go right now. Yeah. So I'm like, you tell 'em to me, you know, you use them. You know, so that's what I'm saying. So that's what I think is like, that's the new way of doing it right now. And now with these dating apps, with, you know, I'm not for the apps at all. Not me.
Kathryn Finney:
I actually think if you're a public person Yeah. I, I, I think that
AJ Johnson:
That, oh, that's why I'm not getting on there. And I'm maybe not at that public, but I am kind of public. But I don't care if I wasn't even public. I just don't wanna get on there. 'cause I just think it's all, well, I just think it's falsified information. And especially the dudes, the dudes that I feel like our guy, like my friends, they got dating apps up there and they look better in person. I'm like, why you got up there? Yeah. But they get hits though. But you know what they do? They get hits and they just go pretty much and hit it. And then, oh, I'm like, so you didn't like the lady? They what? The lady like, oh no, we, and then some of them build a relationship where it's just like, oh, I'm gonna text you you free Thursday. Every Thursday we come and we do this and let's go. And you go. Yeah. So then they go back to they doing their thing. You know, that's how it works.
Kathryn Finney:
You know, I think for me, like time is like really pressure. I don't have a lot of time. Mm-Hmm. . Right. And so if I'm giving time to something and to someone like, you're important to me. And so how do you make time to even date?
AJ Johnson:
Okay. So this is my thing with, um, dating like a business owner, entrepreneurs or very successful people like yourself. And I, uh, if you during that, like, first of all, you have to have somebody that's very, very understanding. They're very, very understanding. Like they, they might not work as much as you 'cause their job is probably doesn't require that much of demand. But you have, and when you doing work in, in, you know, 10 and 12 hours and doing all that, who wanna be like laid up and calling it up and trying to be with you. Like, like look, I want to eat my food and I'm going to bed. Yeah. So that means the person that you're dating and the poor woman who's, you know, might have prepared the food or did anything, she is like, you don't get no attention 'cause you knocked out.
That's what, even if you wanted to keep a, a man or vice, or man, whoever preferable as you know, the Uber eats Oh. However, however you order the food in. So that's what, so it's very hard to be dating when you're an entrepreneur and you running a successful business. And that's why guys can't even really focus. And I'm speaking for men, you can speak for the women, but for men they can't even really focus on, you know, let me go and winding down her. And that's why they, the woman could feel like neglected. Like I be like, he, he ain't send no flo, he could have brought, so he came on a date like, come on girl, let's go, let's go eat. As opposed to, you know, walking up to the door, like come out open, be like, I'm here, mom come out. Or I'm gonna sit an Uber for you, you me be at the restaurant. Yeah. Like that. But what they're doing is they're pulling in and sharing themselves with the guy that they're trying to please her. Yeah. And so it's some, a lot of work that a lot of get successful men gotta deal with. And then some of 'em be like, we just not going out. You could fool with dad. The girl had to pool in the microwave waiting for him to come. Huh. 'cause he got there at like 10 o'clock.
Kathryn Finney:
But I do think, and I'll say this, you know, as an entrepreneur in dating, because that what I see happens with my girlfriends who are single and who are really successful. There's a tendency to kind of like pu push it aside because they've been pushing it aside for a long time. You have to be really intentional. Mm-Hmm. . Exactly. Like, you know, um, one, I mean I got on apps initially because I was new to the dating world. Mm-Hmm. . Um, 'cause I'd been married. I was out of the market for 20 years. Mm-Hmm. , I say to people when I was, was last single, like apple, bottom jeans were in. You know what I'm saying? Job rule was like it. Like it was, it was, it was, I mean, you know, this was like the first time Nelly and Ashanti was together. Right. Like, that's how long ago it was. Right. And so one of the first things I did was I got on the apps and then for me it was more about exploration, experimentation and blurry about who I am now. Mm-Hmm. , you know, Katherine in her forties day now Katherine in her twenties dating. Right, right, right.
AJ Johnson:
So that was, which is a major difference. Major Differe major difference. Difference. Major difference. And
Kathryn Finney:
Through the process of online dating, learned a lot about myself and like what I was looking for. But I had to make time. I literally, it was like a second job. I had to put as much effort into it as I was putting into anything else. Right. Um, to, to get to the critical mass of like knowledge of like who I am and like where I wanna exist. And then, then I say to people, once you do that, especially if you're new to the dating market, you know, dating rather learn who you are. And then after that I was like, okay, now I know really what I want and who I'm looking for. And I have a very, very clear idea. Mm-Hmm. , I'm not even dating. Mm-Hmm. . I'll do, uh, every once in a while I will do a lunch with someone. Mm-Hmm.
. Um, but I'm not, I don't have, I can't give you that effort or time anymore. Mm-Hmm. like before it was, I wasn't say I was using people 'cause I think it was mutually beneficial. It was exploration. Now it's like I know what I want. I'm looking for something very intentional. Mm-Hmm. . So I can't give time to anything that is not a possibility. Mm-Hmm. . Um, 'cause that time is used for myself and for my son and for the other things I have to do. Um, and then the other thing that I've done after the expiration, you, you spend time, you learn, you kind of learn who you are and you come out of it is to now I I almost only wanna meet people in person. Mm-Hmm. and or if I'm introduced by a trusted
AJ Johnson:
Friend. Right. A friend. Exactly. I think
Kathryn Finney:
Yes. Like I have no desire to do dating apps. I think it is a, um, I just think it is like really weird. And I hate that the only way you like somebody is by the way they look. Mm-Hmm. .
AJ Johnson:
And it's, and most of the time on the daily app, that's not how they look. Especially the guys. The God pitches will be up there. Yeah. From 10 years ago. For real.
Kathryn Finney:
It's so weird to me. The number of menus. Like you look exactly like you're pitches. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. I'm like, I'm a public person. Mm-Hmm. as somebody, I'll tell you this story, um, before we wrap up. So I was on Bumbo for a while and going to Atlanta and this guy like found me and we had Nash, but I was just kind of like whatever and didn't like really pursue it. So then he googles me, he's like, I just want to Google, you know, and just see if I could find you Google, Kathryn Chicago. And he was like, oh my God, you're like number one for Kathryn in Chicago. But he proceeded to write like a thousand word essay about me, basically about how
AJ Johnson:
It was flattering.
Kathryn Finney:
It was, it was also a little weird because it was through LinkedIn. Um, and like that's what we're doing now. We're de and people through LinkedIn. But anyway. Oh no,
AJ Johnson:
I heard people do, I heard people meet up on LinkedIn. I didn't know anything about that. That was No, but I just heard that recently. I said Yeah.
Kathryn Finney:
I was like, oh
AJ Johnson:
Yeah, I heard that LinkedIn
Kathryn Finney:
Not just for jobs.
Commercial
Kathryn Finney:
And it was so interesting, you know, that sort of like process. And I was like, ugh. You know, for me, I don't have a lot of extra time, so I need this person to be kind of vetted and validated. Mm-Hmm. . And the way they're they are is through friends. Right. Right. If you are like, um, I've met people through you. Right, of course. Exactly like connecting me. Right. And I'm like, at the very least I know this person's gonna be a friend and at the very least I know they're not gonna be cuckoo. Mm-Hmm. because
AJ Johnson:
They Right. Exactly. 'cause the recommendation. I'm not gonna bring a cuckoo around. Right. You're gonna
Kathryn Finney:
Be cuckoo around. You're gonna pull their chain. Right.
AJ Johnson:
Right, right,
Kathryn Finney:
Right. If the chains gonna get, the chain is gonna be
AJ Johnson:
Pulled.
Kathryn Finney:
Right. And so I can feel safe. And I think that's really important. I say to women, you know, get back to the space of like going out and introducing yourself to people. I find now that men will not approach you or face Yeah. So as women, we're gonna actually have to do some, and
AJ Johnson:
I have to say the reason why, and this is, and I know a fact I've, I've actually read it. I've seen some people do some studies, but I could tell you what men, men do not approach because we don't, we don't like rejection. Like they don't, we don't want to be reject. So if you like somebody that's kind of like, that's why the ones who really get some the men Yeah. Is kind of like the mediocre girl. 'cause he not gonna go to the one that, you know, that he the fly. You know that the fly girl. Yeah. Because he's like, oh nah, nah, she gonna be too much. It's outta my league. I'm not gonna, so they're not gonna come to her. And I know most all my girls are those kind of girls, you know? Yeah. So they was like, it's very few men that come up and talk to me. And the ones who would be somebody who wouldn't even think he had enough nerve to do it, you know? Yeah. And they say, I just, I'm gonna go out with him 'cause he had enough nerve to talk to me. You know, you know. So it's a little bitty. He got him, you know, he got there,
Kathryn Finney:
He called a conversation and you're a nice guy. You
AJ Johnson:
Right. That's what I'm saying. Right. Yeah.
Kathryn Finney:
Like I see the people, I will go, I will go on a coffee date with almost anyone who's nice and respectful. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . I'm not gonna say they would do dinner, but we could do a little coffee and have a conversation. Mm-Hmm. at the very least I will meet a really interesting person. Right. Yeah. And we can have a great conversation. Yeah. Um, and I think there are women like me, I know there's not a lot Mm-Hmm. . Um, and so in closing, as we wrap up this discussion about
AJ Johnson:
Oh, it's not we're having so much fun, we gotta go. I know.
Kathryn Finney:
I know.
AJ Johnson:
You have to do
Kathryn Finney:
The same because like, I need my other job.
AJ Johnson:
No, yeah. The other Right. Your other job. Right. Which being a mother. Yeah, exactly. Um,
Kathryn Finney:
And but, but as we wrap up, like what is sort of one thing you think high powered women can do?
AJ Johnson:
Well, one thing that I definitely think they could do is definitely instill in themselves self love. Yes. Like they, if I just think if they're just feeling really good about themselves, if that means, you know, getting your hair done, doing your face, working out, going yoga, doing all the Pilate stuff, whatever you all be doing or whatever it is, Pilate. Exactly. So that's what it, first of all, I think self love is it? Yes. Because you're not gonna be able to share or receive love from nobody else if you don't feel it about yourself
Kathryn Finney:
And you're not gonna get the right love.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. And so I just think that is one thing that, that's my, I'm gonna start with that. Definitely with self love. You know, don't be so concerned with the baggage and what your other girlfriend say. Let nobody choose. Don't if you like this person Yeah. Or you think you want to go for this kind of person. Yeah. Don't let your mother, your sister or anybody else say Yeah. Just you just own up and deal with this person. Whatever it is. He might not look good to them. Um, I also think you should probably just say what you want. Like if you don't, 'cause most guys, I hate to say it, you gotta tell us sometimes got dudes don't really know, you know? Yeah. Some of 'em I agree. Like, like if and all my guys, I tell 'em, I'm like even and I tell 'em, I'm like, look, if this what you trying to get. And then if they take my note and do what I say, the girl will be like, oh, he is the best man ever. So if
Kathryn Finney:
You
AJ Johnson:
Just have self love for yourself. Yeah. You know, don't listen to anybody else and follow your heart, but still think with your brain now. 'cause you don't wanna be stupid. Yeah. You don't want to be naive. Yeah. You don't wanna get taken advantage of. And I'm not, and I have to be honest, some dudes will take advantage, you know, and girls take advantage. I know women take
Kathryn Finney:
Advantage. Yeah. I say to my friends like, focus on how you feel. How does your nervous system feel
AJ Johnson:
Around? Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Kathryn Finney:
A nerd. Mm-Hmm. you feel common center. You know, I'll leave with this. Um, oh God, I think her, her name is Judge Toller, like Right. She was on tv.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. With a short hair. No un sweet lady.
Kathryn Finney:
Her family. Yeah. Sweet lady. Her
AJ Johnson:
Very sweet lady. Her husband beautified. Her husband been, yeah. She had another tragedy too with her son and his wife.
Kathryn Finney:
Yeah. Yeah. And so one of the things she talks about, there is a clip of her and I encourage anyone to go see it online and she's talking about her husband. Mm-Hmm. . And she says, I married a six foot tall bottle of Val.
AJ Johnson:
Yeah. He was wonderful.
Kathryn Finney:
Yeah. He was wonderful. Like he just calmed me. Mm-Hmm. , he was centered. Mm-Hmm. when I was around him and with him, I never, my, I was never activated. Mm-Hmm. . You know, when your nervous system is activated, that's usually telling you danger. Mm-Hmm. . Right. Whatever it may be. And so find yourself someone who comes your nervous system. Exactly. Who is your value. Exactly. Right. Exactly. That you're around. And you could be commented, and this is particularly for women who are leaders. Mm-Hmm. and who are always, we're always activated 'cause we're out in the world. Right. If you're a black woman leader, there's very few people protecting you. You're not really protected. So you're always on defensive, you're always activated and the last, but
AJ Johnson:
You can't be that but your man, you can't, that's ridiculous. That even makes sense to me. I don't understand it. It's stressful. Yeah. It doesn't making sense. Yeah. That makes
Kathryn Finney:
Sense. So find you somebody who's your value. Right.
AJ Johnson:
Exactly. That would be my thing. Well that that yeah. That only to enhance you. That motivates you. That's in your fan. That's your fan. Back up. Exactly. It's team you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Kathryn Finney:
And if they look like a troll, let them be your troll. Well
AJ Johnson:
Right. Wasn't right. It worked for you. What, that's what I'm saying. It worked for you and look at you and you guys look good together and he worship with the ground. You walk guard together, together.
Kathryn Finney:
He's your troll. Right. Right. Let, like, you know what I'm saying? Mm-Hmm. like, don't let the e ig and tell you what it's supposed to look like. He's your words. Yeah. And he's, and he's brings you the calm and synchronous to your life. Right. And, and you know, it would cause it a soft life. It's not the soft life, it's just that this person is not activating you. Right. Mm-Hmm. . Right.
AJ Johnson:
And so, which I don't understand, I would never be nobody that doesn't bring any value. Right. Like, if you don't bring the vest, if I'm not lighting up and getting chills when I see you and can't wait till I get home from work or whatever Right. Like to see you up, then I'm not gonna be wasting that many days in my life. Right. Would you? I'm like, and I'm not. And I'll just have to say, I mean, nobody wants to hurt or break anybody's, you know, break anybody up or whatever like that. But if you consistently dread it, like, oh, I don't even want a turnkey and it push the remote control to get here. 'cause I'm about to say Yeah. It's exactly funny. People, entrepreneurs, especi, you're out here. And, and, and another thing that I have to say about being an entrepreneur, it's always really good, is that even though your partner, your wife or whatever should definitely have some concern. 'cause it's your, which is really part of their business too. Yeah. You know, so if you coming home and you're successful, he be like, so how was the day? Nothing. Like if he want to dunk and tell her like, you won't believe what happened. You should be a listener here. You should get your advice. Whatever like that, that's, listen, you should be, that's what I'm saying. It should be vice versa, you know? But,
Kathryn Finney:
And, and we'll, we'll it is something you hit on. We'll leave and done this. Keep people out your business.
AJ Johnson:
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I'm a advocate, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Kathryn Finney:
Yeah. I mean that, and that's like, I mean a lot of people right. You don't need to put, you don't need to put on Instagram. Mm-Hmm. . It's
AJ Johnson:
Okay. Oh, I don't play that. No, no. And what's the worst is when they go into a argument with their spouse or husband. Yeah. And then they go, uh, Instagram on social media with some corporate, like, be strong women don't take no BS asshole. Now everybody know you talking about your husband.
Kathryn Finney:
Yeah. So that's Donna.
AJ Johnson:
It's Donna, Dom, aj. I love you. Yeah, I love you too. This is so much fun. We need any more time Next time. I want like hours. Like I want to
Kathryn Finney:
This episode, kept it real about building a relationship while also being an entrepreneur. Thank you to my amazing friend AJ and to all our listeners. Remember that you, you're a human being. And human beings not only need to build successful businesses, but also build successful relationships. And it's all about navigating this journey with an open mind and an open heart. Make sure you keep yourself open the possibilities both in love as well as in entrepreneurship. And until next time, keep building the damn thing.
Thank you for joining us on Build a Damn Thing. Please take a moment to subscribe, share it with your friends, and don't forget to rate and review on your favorite podcast platform. And always remember to build the damn thing.