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    • The Dangers of Opinion-Based DevelopmentRelying on opinions and beliefs alone can lead to failure and missed opportunities. It is crucial to implement evidence-guided decision-making to avoid wasting resources on ideas that may not resonate with users or meet their needs.

      Relying on opinions and beliefs alone can lead to wasted resources and missed opportunities. The story of Google+'s failure to compete with Facebook and missing out on social mobile app opportunities like WhatsApp highlights the pitfalls of opinion-based development. Despite initial enthusiasm and investments, Google+ ultimately flopped, with the integration and features rolled back and the platform shut down. This experience prompted a shift towards evidence-guided decision-making, where ideas are tested and validated before full implementation. By implementing tools like the confidence meter, metrics trees, GIST, and the GIST board, product teams can make more informed choices and avoid wasting time, effort, and resources on ideas that may not resonate with users or meet their needs.

    • The Power of Evidence-Guided Decision-Making and Iteration in Project SuccessUnderstanding user needs, conducting thorough testing, and iterating based on data are crucial for creating impactful and widely adopted features, even if they initially seem counterintuitive.

      Google's approach of evidence-guided decision-making and the "fail fast" mentality played a crucial role in the success or failure of their projects. While Google+ followed a different playbook and ultimately proved unnecessary, Gmail's tabbed inbox feature was a result of extensive research, user-centric goals, and rigorous testing. Initially met with skepticism by colleagues, this feature turned out to be highly successful for passive users, with about 85-88% of the population loving it. The lesson here is that taking the time to understand user needs, thoroughly test ideas, and iterate based on data can lead to impactful and widely adopted features, even if they seem counterintuitive to some.

    • Balancing Human Judgment with Evidence in Successful Product CompaniesEvidence-guided thinking is crucial in modern product management. It is important to encourage leaders to provide evidence to support their vision and create an environment where ideas can be critically evaluated.

      Successful product companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, and Airbnb have found a way to balance human judgment with evidence. They don't disregard human opinions but instead use evidence to supercharge them. This principle of evidence-guided thinking is crucial for modern product management. However, it's important to give founders and leaders the space to express their ideas and insights. The role of evidence is to critically evaluate those ideas and ask for proof. It's about creating an environment where leaders are encouraged to provide evidence to support their vision. Steve Jobs' story of the iPhone illustrates this process of discovery, trial and error, and ultimately piecing together a successful product based on evidence. In organizations like Google, where there is an open culture, it's possible to push back and challenge even the founders' ideas by presenting data and evidence.

    • The Importance of Evidence-Guided Decision-MakingBasing decisions on hard data rather than opinions empowers individuals to challenge senior opinions and drive change, leading to better outcomes in product development.

      Being evidence-guided is crucial for effective decision-making in product development. Itamar Gilad, in his discussion, emphasizes the importance of basing discussions and decision-making on hard data rather than opinions. He suggests that presenting evidence can empower mid-level managers and smaller people within an organization to challenge senior opinions and drive change. Gilad highlights signs that indicate a lack of being evidence-guided, such as unclear goals, missing metrics, excessive time spent on planning, lack of experimentation, and a disengaged team. To counter these issues, Gilad introduces the GIST model, which breaks down change into goals, ideas, steps, and tasks, providing a framework for an evidence-guided approach. Ultimately, incorporating evidence-based decision-making can lead to better outcomes and a more successful product development process.

    • The GIST Model: A Comprehensive Framework for Effective Product DevelopmentThe GIST model provides a systematic approach for teams to define goals, explore ideas, and implement them effectively in product development, combining principles from lean startup, design thinking, and product discovery.

      The GIST model is a comprehensive framework that addresses four crucial areas in product development: goals, ideas, steps, and tasks. It helps teams define what they want to achieve, explore different ways to achieve those goals, and implement and validate their ideas effectively. The GIST model combines principles, frameworks, and processes from various existing methodologies such as lean startup, design thinking, and product discovery. However, it is important to note that the GIST model assumes a strategic context and does not directly tackle strategy development or research. It is also important to not confuse goals with planning work, as goals are meant to paint the end state and provide direction for the development process.

    • Using Models and Metrics to Drive Value and SuccessEvidence-guided companies use models and metrics, such as the North Star metric, to measure the value delivered to the market and understand the impact of experiments and variables on success.

      Evidence-guided companies use models and metrics to construct overarching goals for their organization. The value exchange loop is a model that focuses on delivering as much value to the market as possible and capturing value back. To measure the value delivered, companies often use a metric called the North Star metric. This metric represents the amount of value created for the market. Examples like WhatsApp measuring messages sent and Airbnb measuring nights booked demonstrate the importance of these value metrics. Additionally, companies can break down these metrics into metrics trees, which outline the key performance indicators (KPIs) that impact the North Star metric and top business metric. Mapping out these metrics helps understand the impact of experiments and the variables that influence success.

    • Using a metrics tree for alignment and impact assessment in organizations.Implementing a metrics tree helps teams align their projects with top objectives, encourages ownership and mission, determines effective team structure, and informs decision-making and resource allocation.

      Using a metrics tree can greatly help with alignment and impact assessment within an organization. By having a clear understanding of the top objectives and key results, teams can work together to move these metrics and align their projects accordingly. This model also encourages a sense of ownership and mission within teams, allowing them to contribute to the overall goals. Additionally, the metrics tree can help determine the most effective team topology by organizing the organization around goals rather than hierarchical structures. Ultimately, having a clear math formula that represents the North Star metric or revenue can inform decision-making, resource allocation, and investment strategies. Through objective evaluation and transparency, the ideas layer can ensure rational decision-making while minimizing biases and politics.

    • Evaluating Ideas: The ICE ApproachThe ICE (or RICE) approach is a simple but effective method to prioritize and evaluate ideas based on their impact, confidence, and ease, without relying on complex formulas or tools.

      When evaluating ideas, it is important to consider their impact, confidence, and ease. Impact refers to how much the idea will contribute to the goals, and it is crucial to have clear and specific goals. Ease assesses the level of effort required for the idea to be implemented. Both impact and ease are estimations that need to be made. The third element is confidence, which determines how sure we should be about the initial estimations of impact and ease. It is essential to have strong evidence to support our estimations and to be aware of the level of confidence in our assessments. This approach, known as ICE (or RICE), provides a simple and effective way to prioritize and evaluate ideas, without the need for complicated formulas or tools.

    • Evaluating confidence levels in ideas: Moving beyond opinions and themes.Itamar Gilad's tool helps teams assess their confidence in ideas by considering different forms of evidence and testing, ultimately aiding in informed decision-making and resource optimization.

      Confidence in an idea should be based on more than just opinions and themes. Itamar Gilad's tool highlights the different levels of confidence that can be achieved through various forms of evidence and testing. Starting with low confidence indicators like personal conviction or thematic support, the tool encourages moving towards more objective evaluations such as reviewing the idea with colleagues or estimating feasibility. Data, whether anecdotal or market-based, adds further validation, but it is ultimately through building and testing the idea that medium to high confidence can be gained. This tool can help teams gauge where they are on the confidence spectrum and make informed decisions about investments and prioritization. Additionally, it emphasizes the importance of saying no and stopping unnecessary initiatives to prevent wasted resources.

    • Balancing speed of delivery and speed of discovery in product development.The key to successful product development is finding the right balance between building quickly and learning early, using evidence-guided methods and a systematic approach to evaluate ideas.

      There is a trade-off between speed of delivery and speed of discovery in product development. Many mistakenly believe it's either building very fast or learning slowly, but the key is finding the right balance. It's not about just getting the product out quickly, but about getting the right product out. Evidence-guided methods, which prioritize learning early and making informed decisions, are more impactful and resource-efficient than opinion-based approaches. Good teams know how to learn and build simultaneously. This approach is beneficial for companies transitioning into modern product development or those that have regressed from evidence-guided methods. It's important to have a systematic way of evaluating ideas, especially as companies scale up.

    • Adopting evidence-based frameworks for better decision-making and outcomes.Start by addressing the biggest problems and implement frameworks that align with them, such as establishing a North Star metric for clarity or using the confidence meter for evidence-based prioritization. Embracing evidence-based approaches can lead to better outcomes and prevent fatigue from a complete transformation.

      Organizations should strive to become more evidence-guided by adopting various frameworks and models. The key is not to implement all of them at once, but rather to start with the ones that address the biggest problems a company is facing. For example, if there's a lack of clarity and misalignment in goals, focusing on establishing a North Star metric and using metrics trees can be beneficial. If there are constant debates and changing of minds, incorporating evidence-based prioritization models like the confidence meter is recommended. Additionally, companies can learn and build at a lower cost by utilizing the steps layer, which involves conducting assessments, gathering data, and performing tests before actually building a product. Overall, embracing evidence-based approaches in decision-making can lead to better outcomes and prevent fatigue from attempting a complete transformation all at once.

    • Involving users early on and testing ideas before coding leads to informed decisions and a better final product.User research, testing with a rough version, and experimenting with AB tests can lead to faster learning and a ready-to-deliver final product.

      It's crucial to involve users and gather evidence early on in the product development process. This can be achieved through user research, where ideas are tested with users even before writing a single line of code. By faking the product and allowing users to interact with a rough version, valuable insights can be collected and used to make informed decisions. Additionally, the concept of "fish fooding" or testing on your own team can be a valuable practice. Throughout the development stages, experiments such as AB tests and multivariate tests can provide further validation. The key is to start early, quickly iterate on ideas, and invest more effort into the good ones. This approach allows for faster learning and ensures that the final product is ready for delivery.

    • Prioritizing a Dynamic GIST Board for Goal AchievementCreating a GIST board allows teams to actively contribute to the discovery process, gain a deeper understanding of success, and take ownership of their work.

      Teams should prioritize creating a dynamic GIST board that focuses on goals, ideas, and steps to achieve those goals. By involving developers in activities beyond Agile development, such as research and experimentation, they can contribute to the discovery process. The GIST board should include the team's goals, key results, and objectives, with no more than four key results per team. Through regular meetings, the team can discuss progress, validate ideas, and address any obstacles. This middle layer of goal achievement is often lacking in current discussions that focus on roadmaps and tasks. By providing this context, teams gain a deeper understanding of what success looks like, require less guidance, and can take ownership of their work.

    • Building and Learning Simultaneously: A Holistic Approach to Product DevelopmentBy incorporating a continuous learning process, setting specific goals, and focusing on desired outcomes, teams can make informed decisions and confidently build successful products.

      The process of building a product should also involve a continuous learning process. It's not just about achieving engineering or design milestones, but also about growing the scope of what is being built. The team should approach the project with the mindset of building and learning simultaneously. By setting specific goals, such as reducing average onboarding time, and breaking them down into steps like usability tests, the team can gather evidence and make informed decisions. It's important to emphasize upfront planning and investment in building confidence rather than launching a feature and figuring it out later. This approach may require a shift from traditional roadmaps to outcome roadmaps that focus on achieving desired outcomes rather than fixed deadlines. OKRs can be connected to this framework by using metrics trees, team missions, and individual missions to inform the objectives and key results. Ultimately, this approach allows for a more nuanced and evidence-guided decision-making process.

    • Leveraging OKRs, evidence-guided practices, and technology to improve company health and decision-making while promoting collaboration and customer empathy.Implementing OKRs, evidence-guided practices, and technology can enhance company performance, promote collaboration, and improve decision-making, ultimately leading to better outcomes.

      OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) can be a helpful tool for improving the health of a company and its product. It's important to have supplementary OKRs that focus on these aspects. Implementing evidence-guided practices can also lead to better decision-making and outcomes. While the GIST board may not be the best starting point, gradually incorporating evidence-guided tools and ideas can be beneficial for teams. Creating a step backlog, rather than a traditional product backlog, can help break hierarchical dynamics and promote collaboration. Additionally, resources like books from Silicon Valley Product Group and the Lean series can provide valuable insights for product managers. Exploring new channels for information and entertainment, such as YouTube, can also be enlightening. When it comes to interviewing candidates, asking them to design for a niche audience can reveal their customer empathy and critical thinking skills. Lastly, leveraging technology like AI can enhance processes, such as creating voice signatures for narration purposes.

    • Striving for Value: A Path to Fulfillment and EffectivenessSuccess is not the ultimate goal; instead, prioritize creating valuable content and products that genuinely benefit others to foster personal growth and impactful connections.

      Striving to be of value, rather than just seeking success, can guide both individuals and companies towards greater fulfillment and effectiveness. Itamar Gilad emphasizes the importance of creating valuable content and products that genuinely interest and benefit others. This mindset is influenced by Albert Einstein's motto, "Strive not to be a success, but to be of value." Gilad also highlights how his parents' emphasis on delivering the most value in their modest jobs shaped his outlook. Overall, the key lesson is to focus on being the best at what we do and finding ways to provide meaningful value to others. By embracing this mindset, we can foster personal growth, professional success, and impactful connections with those around us.

    Recent Episodes from Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

    Making an impact through authenticity and curiosity | Ami Vora (CPO at Faire, ex-WhatsApp, FB, IG)

    Making an impact through authenticity and curiosity | Ami Vora (CPO at Faire, ex-WhatsApp, FB, IG)

    Ami Vora is the Chief Product Officer of Faire, which connects independent retailers and brands around the world. Before Faire, Ami spent over 15 years at Meta, including as VP of Product and Design for WhatsApp (2B+ users), VP of Product for Facebook’s ads system (now $130B of annual revenue), and director at Instagram. She began her career working on developer tools at Microsoft. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why execution eats strategy for breakfast

    • Using metaphor to rally teams around one shared goal

    • How to build cross-functional relationships

    • “Dinosaur brain,” “Toddler soccer,” and the “hill climbing” metaphors

    • A tactic for handling disagreement

    • Tips for working well with product-minded founders as a product leader

    • The story of Ami’s incredible 15-year journey from temp to VP at Meta

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers.

    Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents.

    User Testing—Human understanding. Human experiences.

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/authenticity-and-curiosity-ami-vora

    Where to find Ami Vora:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amvora/

    • Substack: https://amivora.substack.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Ami’s background

    (02:00) The myth of perfection in success

    (07:55) Emotionally connecting with the job

    (09:55) Embracing curiosity in moments of challenge

    (13:16) Thinking in feedback loops

    (17:17) The “dinosaur brain” metaphor in product reviews

    (20:20) Strategies for conducting effective product reviews

    (26:33) Using metaphors and imagery to communicate your vision

    (29:35) The power of having a shared narrative

    (31:55) WhatsApp: an example of metaphor in action

    (34:44) Emulating people that inspire you

    (36:19) WhatsApp video calling

    (37:35) Why execution is greater than strategy

    (41:36) Time allotment for strategy vs. execution

    (45:10) How to become a better strategic thinker

    (47:59) The intricacies of implementing feedback

    (51:53) Being a female leader in tech

    (55:13) Advice for young women in tech

    (56:07) Setting goals and aligning incentives

    (01:01:40) Acknowledging hard truths

    (01:05:46) Lessons from transitioning to Faire

    (01:08:40) The importance of a good CPO/CEO relationship

    (01:11:17) Vetting heads of product and maintaining customer focus

    (01:12:40) How Ami went from intern to leading major products at Meta

    (01:14:53) The one thing you should do to be successful in product

    (01:17:25) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Faire: https://www.faire.com/

    • Making Meta | Andrew “Boz” Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

    •  Community Wisdom: AMA with Dan Hockenmaier + Facilitating a roadmap session, structuring product teams, navigating an acquisition, companies not needing PMs anymore, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

    • Developing a growth model + marketplace growth strategy | Dan Hockenmaier (Faire, Thumbtack, Reforge): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/developing-a-growth-model-marketplace

    • Dan Hockenmaier’s website: https://www.danhock.com/

    • On Reviews: https://boz.com/articles/reviews

    • Finding a global optimum always feels like a hill climb: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amvora_finding-a-global-optimum-always-feels-like-activity-7074776143882588161-jhyy/

    • Dolores Park: https://sfrecpark.org/892/Mission-Dolores-Park

    • Rob Goldman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgoldman/

    • Execution eats strategy for breakfast, but execution without strategy leads to burnout: https://rationalpm.substack.com/p/execution-eats-strategy-for-breakfast

    • The goal of a “strategy” is to change our own team’s behavior: https://amivora.substack.com/p/the-goal-of-a-strategy-is-to-change

    • The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

    • Path to Power course outline: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pfeffer-OB377-Course-Outline-2018.pdf

    • Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

    • Max Rhodes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/max-rhodes/

    • Coupa Coffee: https://www.coupacafe.com/

    • Brandee Barker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandeedbarker/

    Year of Yes: How to Dance It Out, Stand In the Sun and Be Your Own Person: https://www.amazon.com/Year-Yes-Dance-Stand-Person/dp/1476777128 

    • How to tell better stories | Matthew Dicks (Storyworthy): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-tell-better-stories-matthew-dicks-storyworthy/

    • A life of yes: Matthew Dicks at TEDxSomerville: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3TaQFcaMk4

    The Office on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/the-office

    30 Rock on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/30-rock/6240863759978157112

    • Dall-E-2: https://openai.com/index/dall-e-2/

    • ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com

    • Fellow kettles: https://fellowproducts.com/products/stagg-ekg-electric-pour-over-kettle

    • TikTok’s “Roman Empire” Meme, Explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2023/09/21/tiktoks-roman-empire-meme-explained/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery)

    Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery)

    Tanguy Crusson is the product lead for Jira Product Discovery at Atlassian. In his more than 10 years at the company, he has been instrumental in taking several new products from zero to one, including HipChat, Statuspage, and Jira Product Discovery. In this episode, we dive deep into the struggles of innovating and building new products inside a large company. Tanguy shares candid stories about what worked, what didn’t, and his many hard-won lessons learned about how to successfully build 0 to 1. We cover:

    • Why large companies with so many advantages still fail at creating new products

    • Lessons learned from building HipChat

    • How to avoid common pitfalls like competitive myopia and premature scaling

    • Lessons learned from the acquisition and integration of Statuspage

    • Insights from the success of Jira Product Discovery

    • Tactics for protecting your “ugly babies”

    • The power of “lighthouse users”

    • The importance of having a “why now”

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-0-to-1-inside-atlassian-tanguy-crusson

    Where to find Tanguy Crusson:

    • X: https://x.com/tanguycrusson

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanguy-crusson-99832a

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Tanguy’s background

    (02:30) Tanguy’s journey at Atlassian

    (07:03) The challenges of innovating in large companies

    (10:42) Atlassian's high bar for excellence 

    (12:58) The HipChat story: successes, failures, and lessons learned

    (20:47) Lessons learned from building HipChat

    (33:49) Statuspage: a journey of perseverance

    (39:48) Acquisition challenges and lessons

    (47:22) Strategic decisions: build, buy, or partner?

    (48:17) Learning to articulate "why now"

    (54:08) A quick summary of lessons in this episode

    (55:40) The success and pain of launching Jira Product Discovery 

    (58:10) Incubating new products: the Point A program

    (01:00:13) Failure is the most likely outcome

    (01:04:15) Atlassian's four-phase approach to launching new products

    (01:09:20) Breaking rules without breaking trust

    (01:16:16) Early success and team autonomy

    (01:17:22) Innovating without disrupting existing customers

    (01:23:17) The Lighthouse Users program

    (01:30:00) Protecting and nurturing new ideas

    (01:36:14) Balancing innovation with personal well-being

    (01:38:17) A reminder to look after yourself

    (01:42:06) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

    • HipChat: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Hipchat/ct-p/hipchat

    • Stride: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Stride/ct-p/stride

    • Statuspage: https://www.atlassian.com/software/statuspage

    • Opsgenie: https://www.atlassian.com/software/opsgenie

    • Jira Product Discovery: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/product-discovery

    • HipChat billboard: https://x.com/HubSpot/status/654696998126272512

    • Announcing our new partnership with Slack: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/new-atlassian-slack-partnership

    • Slack shows it’s worried about Microsoft Teams with a full-page newspaper ad: https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/2/13497766/slack-microsoft-teams-new-york-times-ad

    • What Is ‘Dogfooding’?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html

    • Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

    • Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence

    • PagerDuty: https://www.pagerduty.com/

    • New Relic: https://newrelic.com/

    • BigPanda: https://www.bigpanda.io/

    • Transparent Uptime: http://www.transparentuptime.com/

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Figma: https://www.figma.com/

    • Lessons from Atlassian: Launching new products, getting buy-in, and staying ahead of the competition | Megan Cook (head of product, Jira): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-atlassian-launching

    • Noah Weiss on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahw/

    • Tanguy’s LinkedIn post about “lighthouse users”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tanguy-crusson-99832a_lighthouse-users-one-of-the-pm-techniques-activity-7176654510801502210-hWNi/

    • Pixar Chief: Protect Your ‘Ugly Babies’ (Your Unsightly Ideas): https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyboynton/2014/03/17/pixar-chief-protect-your-ugly-babies-your-unsightly-ideas/

    • Atlas: https://www.atlassian.com/software/atlas

    • Point A: https://www.atlassian.com/point-a

    • Scott Farquhar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottfarquhar

    Who: A Method for Hiring: https://www.amazon.com/Who-Method-Hiring-HC-2008/dp/B004C79SRS/

    Hakim’s Odyssey: Book 1: From Syria to Turkey: https://www.amazon.com/Hakims-Odyssey-Book-Syria-Turkey/dp/1637790007

    Living with the Earth, Volume 1: Permaculture, Ecoculture: Inspired by Nature: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Earth-Gardeners-Permaculture-Ecoculture/dp/1856232603/

    • INRIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Institute_for_Research_in_Computer_Science_and_Automation

    • How a Hydrofoil Works: https://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/hydrofoil/hydrofoil.html

    • What Is Kitefoil or Foilboarding?: https://www.whenitswindy.com/wp/?page_id=534

    • Freediving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving

    • Tanguy’s freediving stats: https://www.aidainternational.org/Athletes/Profile-00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000a45

    • Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB)

    The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB)

    Jeffrey Pfeffer teaches the single most popular (and somewhat controversial) class at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business: The Paths to Power. He’s also the author of 16 books, including 7 Rules of Power: Surprising—But True—Advice on How to Get Things Done and Advance Your Career. He has taught at Harvard, the London Business School, and IESE and has written for publications like Fortune and the Washington Post. Recognized by the Academy of Management and listed in the Thinkers50 Hall of Fame, Jeffrey also serves on several corporate and nonprofit boards, bringing his expertise to global audiences through seminars and executive education. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Jeffrey’s seven rules of power

    • How individuals can acquire and use power in business

    • Networking, and how to do it effectively

    • How to build a non-cringe personal brand

    • How to increase your influence to amplify your impact

    • Examples and stories of people building power

    • Tradeoffs and challenges that come with power

    Brought to you by:

    Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Heap—Cross-platform product analytics that converts, engages, and retains customers

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

    Where to find Jeffrey Pfeffer:

    • X: https://x.com/JeffreyPfeffer

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-pfeffer-57a01b6/

    • Website: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/

    • Podcast: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/pfeffer-on-power/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jeffrey’s background 

    (02:54) Understanding discomfort with power

    (04:56) Power skills for underrepresented groups

    (07:51) The popularity and challenges of Jeffrey’s class at Stanford

    (12:21) The seven rules of power

    (13:03) Success stories from his course

    (15:43) Building a personal brand

    (21:11) Getting out of your own way

    (26:04) Breaking the rules to gain power

    (30:34) Networking relentlessly

    (40:10) Why Jeffrey says to “pursue weak ties”

    (42:00) Using your power to build more power

    (44:34) The importance of appearance and body language

    (47:15) Mastering the art of presentation

    (55:12) Examples of homework assignments that Jeffrey gives students

    (59:11) People will forget how you acquired power

    (01:03:58) More good people need to have power

    (01:10:49) The price of power and autonomy

    (01:17:13) A homework assignment for you

    Referenced:

    • Gerald Ferris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerald-r-ferris-5816b1b5/

    • Political Skill at Work: https://tarjomefa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/4173-engilish.pdf

    • Laura Esserman, MD: https://cancer.ucsf.edu/people/esserman.laura

    • Taylor Swift’s website: https://www.taylorswift.com/

    • Matthew 7: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=NIV

    • Mother Teresa quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2887-if-you-judge-people-you-have-no-time-to-love

    • Paths to Power course description: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pfeffer-OB377-Course-Outline-2018.pdf

    7 Rules of Power: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/books/7-rules-of-power/

    The Knowing-Doing Gap: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/books/the-knowing-doing-gap/

    • Derek Kan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derekkan/

    • Mitt Romney on X: https://x.com/mittromney

    • Elaine Chao’s website: https://www.elainechao.com/

    • Tony Hsieh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hsieh

    • Zappos: https://www.zappos.com/

    • How I Did It: Zappos’s CEO on Going to Extremes for Customers: https://hbr.org/2010/07/how-i-did-it-zapposs-ceo-on-going-to-extremes-for-customers

    • McKinsey & Company: https://www.mckinsey.com/

    • Bain & Company: https://www.bain.com/

    • BCG: https://www.bcg.com/

    • Keith Ferrazzi’s website: https://www.keithferrazzi.com/

    • Deloitte: https://www2.deloitte.com/

    • Tristan Walker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanwalker/

    • Foursquare: https://foursquare.com/

    • Laura Chau on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-chau/

    • Canaan Partners: https://www.canaan.com/

    • Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com/

    • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

    • Greylock: https://greylock.com/

    The Women Who Venture (WoVen) Podcast: https://www.canaan.com/woven/podcasts

    • Imposter syndrome: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/imposter-syndrome

    • Gary Loveman and Harrah’s Entertainment: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/case-studies/gary-loveman-harrahs-entertainment

    • “If you need help, just ask”: Underestimating compliance with direct requests for help: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/if-you-need-help-just-ask-underestimating-compliance-direct-requests

    • Life story of Kathleen Frances Fowler: https://www.forevermissed.com/kathleenfowler/lifestory

    • Jason Calacanis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis/

    • Jason Calacanis: A Case Study in Creating Resources: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/case-studies/jason-calacanis-case-study-creating-resources

    You’re Invited: The Art and Science of Connection, Trust, and Belonging: https://www.amazon.com/Youre-Invited-Science-Cultivating-Influence/dp/0063030977

    • View from the Top: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/guest-speakers/view-top

    • Omid Kordestani on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omid-kordestani-46515151/

    • Netscape: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape

    •  Esther Wojcicki on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherwojcicki/

    • Leanne Williams: https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/leanne-williams

    Precision Psychiatry: Using Neuroscience Insights to Inform Personally Tailored, Measurement-Based Care: https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Psychiatry-Neuroscience-Personally-Measurement-Based/dp/1615371583

    • Mark Granovetter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-granovetter-8161704/

    • The Strength of Weak Ties: https://snap.stanford.edu/class/cs224w-readings/granovetter73weakties.pdf

    Getting a Jobhttps://www.amazon.com/Getting-Job-Study-Contacts-Careers/dp/0226305813

    Acting with Power: https://www.amazon.com/Acting-Power-More-Powerful-Believe/dp/110190397X

    • Articles by Herminia Ibarra: https://herminiaibarra.com/articles/

    Kingdom of the Planet of the Ape: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11389872/

    • Jim Collins’s website: https://www.jimcollins.com/

    • Dana Carney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danarosecarney/

    • Baba Shiv: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/baba-shiv

    • Tony Hayward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hayward

    • Lloyd Blankfein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein

    • Regis McKenna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regis_McKenna

    • Jack Valenti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Valenti

    • Salman Rushdie quote: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/434175220328596286/

    • How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • Carole Robin’s 15% rule: https://pen-name.notion.site/Carole-Robin-on-Lenny-s-Podcast-dc7159208e4242428f4b11ebc92285eb

    • Karlie Kloss on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karliekloss

    • Lindsey Graham’s website: https://www.lindseygraham.com/

    • Was Microsoft’s Empire Built on Stolen Code? We May Never Know: https://www.wired.com/2012/08/ms-dos-examined-for-thef/

    • Who’s who of Jeffrey Epstein’s powerful friends, associates and possible co-conspirators: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/jeffrey-epstein-associates-possible-accomplices/index.html

    • Why Did Martha Stewart Go to Prison? A Look Back at Her 2004 Fraud Case: https://people.com/martha-stewart-fraud-case-prison-sentence-look-back-8550277

    • Dianne Feinstein: https://www.congress.gov/member/dianne-feinstein/F000062

    • Richard Blum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Blum

    • Athena Care Network: https://www.athenacarenetwork.org

    • James G. March: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._March

    • Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/

    • Trump Organization fined $1.6 million for tax fraud: https://apnews.com/article/politics-legal-proceedings-new-york-city-donald-trump-manhattan-e2f1d01525dafb64be8738c8b4f32085

    • Rudy Giuliani: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani

    • Harvard president resigns amid claims of plagiarism and antisemitism backlash: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/jan/02/harvard-president-claudine-gay-resigns

    • Stanford president resigns after fallout from falsified data in his research: https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188828810/stanford-university-president-resigns

    • Rudy Crew: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Crew

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Lessons from a two-time unicorn builder, 50-time startup advisor, and 20-time company board member | Uri Levine (co-founder of Waze)

    Lessons from a two-time unicorn builder, 50-time startup advisor, and 20-time company board member | Uri Levine (co-founder of Waze)

    Uri Levine is the co-founder of Waze, the world’s largest community-based traffic and navigation app, acquired by Google for over $1 billion. He’s also founded nine other companies, been on the board of 20 companies, and advised more than 50 companies. He’s most recently the author of Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the Solution: A Handbook for Entrepreneurs, hailed by Steve Wozniak as the “Bible for entrepreneurs.” Uri is dedicated to creating impactful startups that solve real-world problems and has seen everything from failure to moderate success to big success. In our conversation, we dig into:

    • Why falling in love with the problem is key to startup success

    • The phases of the startup journey and how to navigate them

    • Why firing is more important than hiring

    • How Waze iterated to achieve product-market fit

    • Tactics for telling a compelling story when fundraising

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-uri-levine

    Where to find Uri Levine:

    • X: https://twitter.com/urilevine1

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/uri-levine

    • Website: https://urilevine.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Uri’s background

    (02:50) Falling in love with the problem

    (09:03) Signs this is a big enough problem

    (10:54) The importance of passion

    (12:06) A pivot example

    (14:01) Where to find startup ideas

    (21:57) Finding product-market fit at Waze

    (29:45) The different phases of a startup journey

    (36:47) What investors don’t want to hear

    (39:53) Fundraising tips

    (48:02) How to make your presentations stronger

    (50:32) A wild fundraising story

    (53:46) Firing and hiring

    (59:50) The 30-day test

    (01:04:12) Understanding users

    (01:12:10) Talking to the right users

    (01:15:36) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the Solution: A Handbook for Entrepreneurs: https://www.amazon.com/Fall-Love-Problem-Solution-Entrepreneurs/dp/1637741987

    • Waze: https://www.waze.com/

    • Ben Horowitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behorowitz/

    • Ben Horowitz quote: https://quotefancy.com/quote/1635284/Ben-Horowitz-As-a-startup-CEO-I-slept-like-a-baby-I-woke-up-every-2-hours-and-cried

    • Michael Jordan quote: https://www.forbes.com/quotes/11194/#:~:text=I've%20lost%20almost%20300,that%20is%20why%20I%20succeed.

    • Steph Curry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry

    • How Airbnb Used Word of Mouth to Change the Travel Industry Forever: https://truested.com/story/airbnb

    • Space Mountain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Mountain_(Disneyland)

    • How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence

    • Steve Wozniak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wozniaksteve/

    • Uri’s post about the conference in Guatemala with Steve Wozniak: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/uri-levine_jewishnewyear-speakers-book-activity-6980089544079486976-0ADa/

    • Leonardo da Vinci quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9010638-simplicity-is-the-ultimate-sophistication-when-once-you-have-tasted

    • Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead

    • Nana Korobi Ya Oki: https://ikigaitribe.com/vlog/nana-korobi-ya-oki/

    That Will Never Work: The Birth of Netflix and the Amazing Life of an Idea: https://www.amazon.com/That-Will-Never-Work-Netflix/dp/0316530204

    Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break/dp/0735211299

    • 8 Great Chess Apps for Beginners and Grand Masters: https://www.wired.com/story/best-chess-apps/

    • Pontera: https://pontera.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO)

    Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO)

    Cameron Adams is the co-founder and chief product officer of Canva. Canva is one of the world’s most valuable private software companies, used by 95% of Fortune 500 companies. Since its launch in 2013, Canva has grown to over 150 million monthly users in more than 190 countries, generating $2.3 billion in annual revenue. Prior to Canva, Cameron ran a design consultancy, worked at Google on Google Wave, and founded the email startup Fluent. He is also an author of five web design books and a regular speaker at global conferences. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why they spent a year building their minimum viable product (MVP) before launch

    • Why Canva has no managers, and their unique approach to coaching and performance reviews

    • Why they encourage employees to “give away their Legos”

    • Insights into Canva’s SEO growth strategy

    • Their three-pillar framework for integrating AI into their product

    • Stories from the early days

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-canva-with-cameron-adams

    Where to find Cameron Adams:

    • X: https://twitter.com/themaninblue

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/themaninblue

    • Website: https://themaninblue.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Cameron’s background

    (02:00) Reflecting on the success of Canva

    (04:50) Reflecting on hard times

    (10:01) Canva’s product-obsessed culture

    (12:02) Why they prioritize internal promotions and hires

    (13:56) What makes Canva unique

    (16:31) The concept of giving away your Legos

    (21:44) Why Canva has no managers

    (24:29) Product management at Canva

    (27:56) Reflections on working with a married couple

    (30:37) Why they spent a year building their MVP before launch

    (33:49) Advice for building an MVP

    (41:23) Canva’s onboarding transformation

    (44:25) Canva’s SEO strategy

    (50:37) The success of Canva’s freemium strategy

    (54:24) Integrating AI into Canva’s product

    (01:01:50) Where to find Cameron

    Referenced:

    • Canva: https://www.canva.com/

    • Melanie Perkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanieperkins

    • Cliff Obrecht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cliff-obrecht-79ba9920

    • Jennie Rogerson, Head of People, LinkedIn post about “season opener” events: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jennierogerson_season-opener-is-one-of-my-favourite-events-activity-7006815614556135424-73bD/

    Game of Thrones on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones

    • Woodstock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock

    • ‘Give Away Your Legos’ and Other Commandments for Scaling Startups: https://review.firstround.com/give-away-your-legos-and-other-commandments-for-scaling-startups/

    • Minimum viable product (MVP): https://www.productboard.com/glossary/minimum-viable-product-mvp

    • Canva’s SEO Strategy Is Elite: https://thegrowthplaybook.substack.com/p/canvas-seo-strategy-is-elite

    • The SEO Strategy That Led Canva to a $40 Billion Valuation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INyGKt6LAqM

    • Andrianes Pinantoan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrianes/

    • Canva Create: https://www.canva.com/canva-create/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)

    The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)

    Matt Dixon is one of the world’s foremost experts in sales and the author of The Challenger Sale, which sold over a million copies worldwide and was a #1 Amazon and Wall Street Journal bestseller. His most recent book, The JOLT Effect, focuses on overcoming customer indecision—one of the biggest challenges to closing deals. Outside of writing, Matt co-founded DCM Insights, a boutique consultancy helping organizations understand customer behavior, and is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, with more than 20 print and online articles to his credit. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why 40% to 60% of qualified sales opportunities are lost due to customer indecision

    • Why dialing up FOMO doesn’t work, and what to do instead

    • The “pings and echoes” technique to catch issues early

    • The JOLT method for overcoming indecision

    • Key lessons from The Challenger Sale

    • Practical examples of how to apply these principles to close more deals

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon

    Where to find Matt Dixon:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewxdixon

    • Website: https://www.jolteffect.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Matt’s background

    (01:57) The research behind Matt’s books

    (06:08) Insights from The JOLT Effect

    (10:15) FOMO vs. FOMU

    (18:18) An example of selling software

    (26:04) The JOLT method Step 1: Judge their level of indecision

    (29:41) The “pings and echoes” technique

    (34:49) Step 2: Offer a recommendation

    (38:36) Step 3: Limit the exploration

    (41:43) Step 4: Take risk off the table

    (45:58) When to hit the pause button with a customer

    (47:27) Insights from The Challenger Sale

    (49:07) An example of a challenger sale

    (55:23) Where to find Matt

    Referenced:

    • A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting

    The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/0670922854

    The JOLT Effect: How High Performers Overcome Customer Indecision: https://www.amazon.com/JOLT-Effect-Performers-Overcome-Indecision/dp/0593538102

    • Gartner acquires CEB: https://www.gartner.com/en/about/acquisitions/history/ceb-acquisition

    Tiger King on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994

    • Why sourdough went viral: https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/08/04/why-sourdough-went-viral

    • Neil Rackham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Rackham

    • Status quo bias in decision-making: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

    • Omission bias: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/omission-bias

    • Gartner Magic Quadrant & Critical Capabilities: https://www.gartner.com/en/research/magic-quadrant

    • Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    • Stop Losing Sales to Customer Indecision: https://hbr.org/2022/06/stop-losing-sales-to-customer-indecision

    • Dentsply Sirona: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/

    • “We happy?” Briefcase scene from Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGchDuOpbhE

    • Nupro Freedom Cordless Prophy System: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/en-us/discover/discover-by-category/preventive/hygiene-handpieces.html

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart)

    Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart)

    Bangaly Kaba was an early growth PM at Facebook, head of growth at Instagram, and VP of Product at Instacart and is currently Director of Product at YouTube overseeing a global team working on creator monetization. Bangaly has also been a growth advisor to dozens of companies, including Twitter, on the board of multiple companies, and is an active angel investor. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • A simple framework for choosing where to work and what to work on

    • The importance of “understand work”

    • The “adjacent users” theory and how it can help you drive growth

    • Advice for coaching product managers

    • Invaluable lessons from his time at Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/frameworks-for-growing-your-career-bangaly-kaba

    Where to find Bangaly Kaba:

    • X: https://twitter.com/iambangaly

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iambangaly/

    • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iambangaly/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Bangaly’s background

    (06:31) Choosing where to work and what to work on

    (08:39) The impact factor

    (10:53) Evaluating the environment

    (15:53) The manager component

    (18:27) The skills part of the equation

    (23:49) Advice on finding a mentor

    (25:42) The power of “understand work”

    (31:17) Operationalizing understand work

    (37:55) Balancing understand work

    (41:25) Managing complex change

    (45:26) Effective management of product managers

    (51:35) The role of product managers as coaches and team leaders

    (54:52) Driving growth through flywheels and value proposition

    (01:03:14) Understanding adjacent users

    (01:08:41) The role of partnerships and SEO in Instagram’s early growth

    (01:16:08) The secret behind Instagram’s growth

    (01:25:37) Lessons from Facebook

    (01:29:15) Failure corner

    (01:31:58) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Impact = Environment x Skills: How to Make Career Decisions: https://www.reforge.com/blog/how-to-make-career-decisions

    • Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey

    • Casey Winters’s blog: https://caseyaccidental.com/

    • Ben Thompson’s newsletter: https://stratechery.com/about/

    • Elena Verna on how B2B growth is changing, product-led growth, product-led sales, why you should go freemium not trial, what features to make free, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/elena-verna-on-why-every-company

    • George Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geolee/

    • Bangaly Kaba: The Path to 1 Billion: Lessons Learned from Growing Instagram—CXL LIVE 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ZHlb6kj_E

    • What Is ‘Dogfooding’?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html

    • Bloom’s taxonomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_taxonomy

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Mike Krieger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekrieger/

    • LeBron James: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James

    • Kobe Bryant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant

    •  Mike Krzyzewski: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski

    • John Calipari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calipari

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Chief: https://chief.com/

    • Jobs to be done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

    • The Adjacent User: https://brianbalfour.com/quick-takes/the-adjacent-user

    • How the biggest consumer apps got their first 1,000 users: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-biggest-consumer-apps-got

    • Alex Zhu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keepsilence/

    • From Brush to Canvas with Alex Zhu of Musical.ly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey15v81pwII

    • Selena Gomez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/selenagomez/

    • Kim Kardashian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kimkardashian/

    • Rob Andrews on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robby-andrews-64669720/

    • Instagram’s growth speeds up as it hits 700 million users: https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/26/instagram-700-million-users/

    Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

    Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World: https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Work-Focused-Success-Distracted/dp/1455586692

    Start at the End: How to Build Products That Create Change: https://www.amazon.com/Start-End-Products-Create-Change/dp/0525534423

    • Flighty app: https://www.flightyapp.com/

    • Adam Grant on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Why not asking for what you want is holding you back | Kenneth Berger (exec coach, first PM at Slack)

    Why not asking for what you want is holding you back | Kenneth Berger (exec coach, first PM at Slack)

    Kenneth Berger coaches startup leaders on how to prevent burnout, advocate for their desired lifestyle, and make a meaningful impact on the world. He’s spent more than 20 years in the tech industry, is a former founder backed by top investors, and was the first product manager at Slack. Kenneth’s core mission is to help startup leaders change the world by learning to ask for what they want, living with integrity, and building genuine relationships even with the people they find most challenging. Currently he is writing a book, Ask for What You Want, in which he aims to share his actionable strategies for creating change in the world. In our conversation, we explore:

    • Why asking for what you want is so impactful

    • Three steps to effectively ask for what you want

    • Challenges that arise when people struggle to ask for what they want

    • Why hearing “no” is a normal part of the process

    • The “dream behind the complaint” technique for uncovering desires

    • Kenneth’s experience of being fired three times from Slack

    • How embracing fear and discomfort is key to getting what you want

    • Why discipline is overrated

    Brought to you by:

    Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ask-for-what-you-want-kenneth-berger

    Where to find Kenneth Berger:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kberger

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@kberger

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kberger/

    • Website: https://kberger.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kenneth’s background

    (04:31) The importance of asking for what you want

    (06:36) Challenges that arise when people struggle to ask for what they want

    (08:09) A personal example of failing to ask for what you want

    (09:17) Signs this is a skill you need to work on

    (10:49) How to get better at knowing what you want

    (15:28) Why hearing “no” is a normal part of the process

    (17:29) Getting a “yes” vs. a “hell yes”

    (19:20) Step 1: Articulate what you want

    (24:07) Doing an integrity check

    (26:56) Step 2: Ask for what you want intentionally

    (30:45) Understanding your influence

    (34:48) Using complaints as inspiration

    (36:24) Internal family systems

    (38:00) Giving feedback

    (41:24) Step 3: Accept the response

    (45:22) Kenneth’s experience of being fired three times from Slack

    (57:30) Advice on being the first PM at a company or startup

    (01:04:58) Contrarian corner: anti-discipline

    (01:05:52) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Joining as the first product manager: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/joining-as-the-first-product-manager

    • Internal Family Systems: https://ifs-institute.com/

    • How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

    • The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • T-group weekends at Stanford: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/leadership/interpersonal-dynamics/facilitation-training-program/intro-tgroup

    • DBT skill DEAR MAN: https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/dbt-dear-man

    • Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT): https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22838-dialectical-behavior-therapy-dbt

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Stewart Butterfield on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/butterfield/

    • How to fire people with grace, work through fear, and nurture innovation | Matt Mochary (CEO coach): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work

    Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509

    • Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

    • Jonny Miller’s Nervous System Mastery course: https://nsmastery.com/lenny

    • Managing nerves, anxiety, and burnout | Jonny Miller (Nervous System Mastery): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/managing-nerves-anxiety-and-burnout

    The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable-ebook/dp/B00R3MHWUE

    Break Point on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81569920

    Living on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81582076

    • Wimbledon tennis: https://www.wimbledon.com

    • Wenshan Baozhong tea: https://redblossomtea.com/products/wenshan-baozhong?variant=31629962820

    • Tea From Taiwan: https://www.teafromtaiwan.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How Nubank builds a fanatical user base

    • Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth

    • Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score

    • The importance of strategic clarity

    • The role of category design in creating successful products

    • Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”

    • Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Mercury—The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be-fundamentally-different-jag-duggal

    Where to find Jag Duggal:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagduggal/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jag’s background

    (04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements

    (06:01) Nubank’s product development process

    (11:23) Nubank’s values

    (12:16) Building products people love fanatically

    (15:21) The Sean Ellis score

    (21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score

    (25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers

    (28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating

    (30:42) Pushing back effectively

    (34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research

    (37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis

    (42:01) Developing a strategy

    (52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”

    (53:10) Category design

    (57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future

    (01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines

    (01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking

    (01:09:23) AI corner

    (01:12:34) Failure corner

    (01:20:24) Key takeaways

    (01:22:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Nubank: https://nubank.com.br/en/

    • Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/

    • Robinhood: https://www.robinhood.com/

    • SoFi: https://www.sofi.com/

    • Affirm: https://www.affirm.com/

    • Lemonade: https://www.lemfi.com/

    • Bank of America: https://www.bankofamerica.com/

    • Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-achieves-world-record-with-nubolao

    • Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/nu-mexico-carries-out-first-financial-transaction-20-meters-under-the-depth-of-the-sea

    • David Vélez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-v%C3%A9lez-1004875

    • Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crisjunqueira

    • Edward Wible on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamedwardwible

    • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

    • Churrascaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria

    • Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-culture-and-values/

    • Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/working-backwards-press-release-template-example-ian-mcallister/

    • Sean Ellis test: https://productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c

    • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket

    • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

    • Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: https://international.nubank.com.br/company/ultravioleta-nubank-expands-its-premium-card-offer-and-adds-new-features-on-the-products-first-anniversary/

    • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY

    • The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: https://www.fastcompany.com/3006797/innovation-method-behind-swiffer-madness

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard

    Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

    The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

    • How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher

    Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets: https://www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619

    Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • Citi: https://www.citi.com/

    • Santander Bank: https://www.santanderbank.com/

    • Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/

    • Harvard Kennedy School: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/

    • Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-wojcicki-b136a99/

    • Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCDRm_YRFg

    • Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/technology/14DoubleClick.html

    • Real-time bidding: https://support.google.com/authorizedbuyers/answer/6136272

    From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765/

    The Gilded Age on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age

    • Lomi: https://lomi.com/

    • Nubank careers: https://international.nubank.com.br/careers/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    Vikrama Dhiman heads all things product at Gojek, including product management, design, program management, and research, across Indonesia, Singapore and India. He has over 16 years of experience building internet products, consults with Fortune 500 companies, and is among the most well-known and respected product leaders in all of Asia. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The most common traits among successful product managers

    • The 3 W’s framework for PM career growth

    • The Four A’s of leveling up in product management

    • The right way to push back as a PM

    • Common pitfalls that stall PM careers

    • Vikrama’s advice for transitioning into product management

    • Why intent alone is not enough

    Brought to you by:

    Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-pm-skill-development

    Where to find Vikrama Dhiman:

    • X: https://twitter.com/vikramadhiman

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrama/

    • Website: https://www.vikramadhiman.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Vikrama’s background

    (03:56) Three common traits among great PMs

    (07:09) The first W: What you produce

    (15:40) The second W: What you bring to the table

    (18:58) The third W: What’s your operating model?

    (20:36) Three traits that make you a great PM to work with

    (21:49) How to improve the quality and quantity of your outputs

    (23:26) The art of the pushback

    (26:55) Common factors that impede career growth

    (33:39) Vikrama’s personal reflections

    (39:33) Choosing which skill(s) to focus on developing

    (46:28) The ambiguity of the PM role

    (51:47) The 8 axis for PM growth

    (56:57) Contrarian corner: Why intent alone is not enough

    (59:30) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Taxi mafias, cash vaults, and 100% MoM growth: The story behind Southeast Asia’s biggest startup | Kevin Aluwi (Gojek): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom

    • How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-hire-for-measure-and-unlock

    • Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id

    • SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL

    • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

    • Crystal Widjaja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalwidjaja

    • Raditya Wibowo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raditya-wibowo-a0845436/?originalSubdomain=id

    • Sidu Ponnappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidup

    • Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your

    • Kevin Aluwi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/

    • Workday: https://www.workday.com/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    Small Data: The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Data-Clues-Uncover-Trends/dp/1250080681

    Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World: https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X

    Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555

    Miss Congeniality on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Congeniality-Sandra-Bullock/dp/B002R5HQDK

    Schitt’s Creek on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Schitts-Creek/dp/B083LDRW9F

    • DramaBox: https://www.dramaboxapp.com/

    Am I Overthinking This?: Over-Answering Life’s Questions in 101 Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Am-Overthinking-This-Over-answering-questions/dp/1452175861/

    Crazy Rich Asians on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Rich-Asians-Constance-Wu/dp/B07JGJFXBF

    • 9 Best Hawker Centers in Singapore—and What to Eat There: https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-hawker-centers-in-singapore-and-what-to-eat-there

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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    Where to find Shishir Mehrotra:

    • Twitter: https://twitter.com/shishirmehrotra

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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