Beyond The Golden Girls: Platonic Life Partners at Any Age, with Rhaina Cohen

Episode #89: Do you ever feel like you or someone you know is just not “good at” friendship? It's never too late to address negative patterns in our friendships or any relationship. Today's guest, author Christie Tate, author of B.F.F.: A Memoir of Friendship Lost and Found, set out to break decades of unhealthy cycles in her friendships. Do you think you "suck at friendship" as Christie thought before she started this process? There is hope! Christie is here to prove it.

We covered: 

• Abolishing a school cafeteria mentality from our adult friendships
• Aiming for friendship circles (expansive ) vs. triangles (hard edges)
• Recognizing how jealousy and envy alters our behavior towards others
• Knowing when we're asking friends for too much assurance
• Changing from a scarcity mindset to one of abundance
• Developing compassion for the "it" person (child or adult)
• Ghosting and being ghosted
• Owning our ambitions and desires in order to combat competition with friends

Meet Christie Tate:
 
Christie’s latest memoir is, B.F.F.: A Memoir of Friendship Lost and Found. Her previous memoir, Group: How One Therapist and a Circle of Strangers Saved My Life,  was a New York Times bestseller and a Reese Witherspoon book club pick. You can find links to her many published essays and her writing workshops on her website. Find Christie's Substack newsletter here, and find her on Instagram @Christieotate.

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #88: Managing differences of opinion with friends can get tricky. An obvious area is politics, but smaller differences also get between friends, like parenting decisions.

Examples: parents who give their kids a phone and social media years before the other friend; public vs. private school; where you live; how you vacation---those are not as divisive as politics, but it's an ongoing difference in your choices. Do we allow our differences to become a strength in a friendship or a weakness? I advocate for strength, which requires empathy for the next person.

Here to talk about developing empathy and managing these potential differences is therapist and author, Emily Locker. Emily's debut novel, Running Mates, is a modern day Romeo and Juliet and one of the best fictional versions I've read of friends with big differences---political ones in this case. Emily and I lean into her professional work as a therapist for advice on how to get along with people who have different points of view.

And there is another major fact that I need to tell you about Emily. Emily is my second cousin! Our grandfathers were brothers, and our moms are first cousins. We also talk in the episode about the potential of friendship between cousins and how jealous I always was of Emily and her first cousins.

Meet Emily Locker:

Emily lives in Washington, D. C. with her husband and two young sons. Find Emily on Instagram @emilylocker.
 

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #87: Shows like The Golden Girls and Grace & Frankie are beloved by so many, but also treated as a fantasy. What if platonic life partnerships didn't have to be merely a dream? What if you didn't have to wait until retirement age to consider centering your life around friendship?

Today's guest, Rhaina Cohen, author of The Other Significant Others: Reimagining Life with Friendship at the Center, profiles platonic partners in her book who are at different ages and stages of life. While there have always been people throughout history making the choice to commit their lives to a friend rather than a romantic partner, there are not common models, labels, or legal benefits for these kind of arrangements.

 MEET RHAINA COHEN:

Rhaina Cohen is an award-winning producer and editor for NPR’s documentary podcast Embedded. She was named a 2021/2022 National Endowment for the Humanities Public Scholar for her debut nonfiction book, The Other Significant Others: Reimagining Life with Friendship at the Center. Her writing, often focused on social connection, has appeared in The Atlantic, The New York Times, The Washington Post and elsewhere. She’s spent most of her career working on podcasts that blend narratives and ideas, including Hidden Brain, Invisibilia and Rough Translation. Find Rhaina on Twitter and Instagram.

We discussed:

• The lack of vocabulary or process for people who want to try a platonic partnership.The real enchantment and sense of possibility that happens when you're excited about a new friend, a feeling that's not so different from a romantic spark. Rhaina mentioned "limerence" as the term used for this initial sensation in romance that can apply to friendship too.
• The crucial element of proximity in close friendships.
• The popularity of the Llano Exit Strategy story and the dream people have about clustering near close friends eventually.
• The importance of not having just one story in our minds for what it looks like to be happy, fulfilled, and connected.
• Some of the benefits Rhaina gains because she and her husband live with another couple (platonically) and the couple's two kids.

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #86: Making friends and deepening existing friendships starts with some basic truths.

• "Every friendship starts with an act of bravery. And every friendship goes to the next level because of someone's act of bravery. "
• "Do not wait for the other person to make the first move. It's always your turn."

These are just two of many wise and thoughtful quotes about making friends and deepening friendships from today's guests, Amy Weatherly and Jess Johnston. 

Amy, Jess, and I---three friendship enthusiasts---shared times we've been brave in making friends and deepening those friendships as well as times we've struggled.


We covered:

• Some of our own personal stories of the brave act of making friends, including how Amy and Jess met online and formed a real friendship
• The fear of rejection
• The fear of being awkward
• Letting go of assumptions you've made about what everyone is thinking
• The fear of leaving others out
• Finding a pickleball game! 
• Focusing on the people who say yes and don't fixate on the people who are not interested
• Not giving up all of your power to make friendships happen
• Intentionality and vulnerability in deepening friendships
• The fear of sharing who you really are
• Asking good questions 
• Allowing kids and teens to experience friendship bumps (not trying to fix everything)

MEET AMY AND JESS

Amy Weatherly and Jess Johnston are cofounders of the viral page all about friendship, Sister, I Am with You. They coauthored the new book, Here For It and the Wall Street Journal bestseller I'll Be There (But I'll Be Wearing Sweatpants) and have been featured in national news such as Good Morning America to talk about friendship. They are friends first, business partners second, and absolutely adore any time they can spend together in real life (eating queso) and laughing till they ache.

Find Amy & Jess on: Facebook, Instagram, and on their Website.

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #85: "The more the merrier" is a common expression for good reason. Most of us don't want to be considered exclusive. We want others to feel welcomed and comfortable around us. But there are times when the more the merrier is not the case-- when the group dynamics for a particular event won't work if everyone comes along.

In episode 85, I have a tough conversation with Danielle Bayard Jackson, an incredibly clear-thinking friendship coach and national speaker on the topic of female friendships.

Danielle's viral TikTok and viral Instagram post on "Reasons Why You (Possibly) Weren't Invited" caught my attention. She gave examples in those videos I know I have done myself (cringe) and things I've thought, but have been too scared to say on my podcast or in my own writing about friendship.

I needed Danielle by my side to have this conversation about why we and others are sometimes not invited. And I'm glad I shared some of own insecurities and pet peeves, even though the topic gave me a stomachache when we spoke and still does posting it for others to hear.


Meet Danielle:

Danielle Bayard Jackson is a female friendship coach and educator who speaks nationally on the subject of friendship as a wellness imperative. Her coaching business, Friend Forward, is dedicated to teaching women how to create and maintain better female friendships. Danielle’s expertise has been featured in NBC News, Psychology Today, Wall Street Journal, Oprah Magazine, and many other outlets. She shares her insight weekly on The Friend Forward Podcast and has a book coming out in spring 2024 called Fighting For Our Friendships. Danielle is the official spokesperson for Bumble’s new app Bumble For Friends. 

Personal IG - @daniellebayardjackson.    Friend Forward IG - @friendforward
TikTok - @thefriendshipexpert    Twitter - @DBayardJackson
Website - www.betterfemalefriendships.com

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #84:  Debra Arbit and I tell our real-life friendship story, which is a great example of going from barely acquaintances to close friends in our 40s. Well, when we met Debra was still in her 30s, but I was in my 40s. We share the emails and texts that move us from office-mates to friends. 

Debra and I don't agree on everything, but we do agree that inviting people into your home is one way to significantly move a friendship forward. We share lots of tips for how to make hosting a much easier task.

As I discussed way back in episode 20, good friendship chemistry isn't enough to foster a good friendship. One person in the acquaintanceship has to "make a move" to talk more or hang out in a different context.

I shared very detailed show notes for this one with all the hosting tips we covered. You can find that here on my website.

Meet Debra:

In addition to being a consultant for women business owners, and raising three young kids, Debra has hosted TONS of friends and acquaintances at her house for meals. Debra took her love for cooking onto her instagram account, @fortheloveofcookbooks, where she cooks her way through entire cookbooks and does much of it live on her Instagram  stories. She rates the recipes too. It's a fantastic account!

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #83: Have you ever befriended your ex's ex? Today's episode focuses on the potential friendship that comes from a shared hurt and a shared healing. I was intrigued when Lara Starr emailed me about her "sister exes." Lara has written extensively in her Substack, It's Kind of a Long Story, about the friendships that came from bonding with the women who were emotionally hurt by the same man.

This kind of friendship could also apply to fellow ex-friends of a particular friend. 

There may be some drawbacks to starting a friendship this way. If the relationship stays way too focused on the common hurt, that's not a true or deep friendship. We get into all of that as Lara shares her story.


Meet Lara Starr: Lara is a publishing publicist and a former radio producer. Find her on Substack and Instagram.

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #82: The friendships formed during difficult, even dark, periods of our lives create a lasting impact unlike any other bond. These friendships "in the trenches" can come in many forms---a health crisis, a traumatic experience, or even experiencing an especially intense work environment with a harsh boss and terrible hours.

This week's guest, Jenny Leon, talks about some of the "in the trenches" friendships found in pop culture, but we mainly focus on the special and irreplaceable friendship Jenny made with a fellow young mom who was on the same chemotherapy schedule when Jenny was diagnosed with breast cancer in her 33rd week of pregnancy. Jenny's new friend, Alli, was one of the few people who could understand Jenny's experience. Their bond was crucial and irreplaceable. 

In addition, a voicemail from Renee Schuls-Jacobson about finding camaraderie during clonazepam withdrawal reaffirms the profound support we discover in our darkest times. You can learn more about Renee's story in here.


Meet Jenny Leon:

Jenny Leon is a former Manhattan finance lawyer who started writing when she got diagnosed with breast cancer in her 33rd week of pregnancy with her second child. She is working on a memoir on how her love of being a mother provided her with a lifeline to get through a double mastectomy, chemo and radiation. 

Jenny's essays have been nominated for a Pushcart Prize and other awards. Most of her work focuses on motherhood, anxiety, and breast cancer. Her writing has been featured in the Globe and Mail, HuffPost Canada, the Buffalo News, Motherwell, Kveller and HerStry amongst others. Additionally, she has been featured in numerous campaigns and presentations for Sharsheret, a national nonprofit that focuses on assisting young women and their families affected by the BRCA mutation.

Find all of Jenny's publications and interviews here. You can follow her on Instagram. And if you'd like to message her directly, she is always happy to hear from others and to help. She can be found at jennyroseleon@gmail.com

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #81: Have you ever held back sharing good news because you sensed a friend wasn't truly celebrating with you? Do you have friends who show up in bad times, but are slow to show support in good times? This episode is for you! I share some thoughts on identifying the friends who want to hear your good news, how to develop more friendships like that, and how to be that kind of friend to others. 

Then, my guest, Chaz Sandifer, and I discussed the reality of outgrowing friendships, knowing which friends you can trust, friends who cheer you on, the dangers of jealousy and competition, and much more. 

Meet Chaz Sandifer:

Chaz is the founder and owner of theNEWmpls, a holistic health and wellness company specializing in fitness, wellness, and nutrition. They offer private fitness classes around the Twin Cities and a variety of special programs with various partners. Chaz is the sole source for diabetes prevention in Ramsey County. She also owns Lakeview Terrace Farmers Market, the only Black woman owned farmer’s market in Minnesota. 

Chaz personally speaks often about owning a health and wellness business as a Black woman. One of her main specialties is discussing generational wealth. Chaz has a weekly podcast with WCCO called Fitness Revolution with Chaz. Chaz has taken on a role as a co-leader for the communications work group at The University of Minnesota in the department for Community Engagement to Advance Research and Community Health, and she's the co-founder of Stories Through the Menu, an exciting chef series in Minneapolis. 

Find Chaz on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn.

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question

Episode #80: "Neediness" has come up in plenty of episodes, but this is the first one dedicated to that loaded word. The episode was inspired by a letter from a listener--author, Sally Vardaman, who found herself reacting to my mom's story in episode #72 about her decision to end a friendship over what she called, "neediness." Sally's letter was so reflective and insightful that I asked her to come on the show.

We covered: 

• feeling drained by a friend's needs.
• worrying you're overtaxing friends with your needs.
• eliminating the shame of having needs in the first place. We all have needs! They just rarely cannot be met by one particular friend.

MEET SALLY VARDAMAN

Sally Vardaman is a writer who believes in the power of stories to make us think, question our assumptions, and connect with each other despite our differences. She is the author of Shoot the Arrows, a new book of essays to her three teenage children on why honesty and self-reflection are the keys to a healthy and meaningful life. You can find more about her work at sallyvardaman.com. As well as on Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads.

The Books Sally has found helpful on the topic of neediness:

Sally wrote, "There are no quick fixes and we need all the education we can get.  The great thing about books and learning is we always have the opportunity to understand ourselves better and change."

• Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller, a great assessment on attachment issues with lots of practical suggestions for all attachment types.
• Platonic by Marisa Franco, a look at attachment specifically in friendships (pretty sure I heard about this one through Dear Nina :)
• How to Be Your Own Best Friend by Mildred Newman and Bernard Berkowitz (first published in 1971, thank you Nora Ephron!)
• Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melodie Beattie (first published in 1986)
• Lying by Sam Harris

* All transcripts are available on the main Buzzsprout "Dear Nina" site. Click on any episode and find the transcript tab.

Let's connect over all things friendship!

• My Substack newsletter about friendship & more
• Dear Nina website with show notes and a guide to pitching yourself as a guest
• Instagram & TikTok & Twitter
• JOIN the Dear Nina Facebook group
• Ask an anonymous question