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    Does The Microbiome Hold The Key To Treating Parkinson’s, Autism & Other Diseases? CalTech Microbiologist Dr. Sarkis Mazmazian on The Gut-Brain Axis

    enMay 09, 2024
    What issue do active individuals face with traditional glasses?
    How has ROKA improved eyewear for athletes?
    What research area does Dr. Sarkis Mazmanian focus on?
    Why do drugs tested on rodents often fail in humans?
    What factors influence our genetic expression beyond genetics?

    Podcast Summary

    • Revolutionizing Eyewear and Alcohol-Free BeerROKA solves workout frustration with stylish, lightweight prescription glasses and sunglasses, while Go Brewing provides alcohol-free beer options for those maintaining a sober lifestyle.

      Active individuals face the frustration of constantly adjusting their glasses during workouts. However, this issue has been solved by ROKA, a company founded by two former Stanford swimming teammates who have revolutionized the eyewear industry with their stylish, lightweight prescription glasses and sunglasses featuring patented no-slip nose and temple pads. Meanwhile, Go Brewing offers alcohol-free beer options for those who want to maintain an alcohol-free lifestyle without giving up the taste of their favorite brews. In the realm of health and research, the microbiome's impact on various aspects of human health, including neurodevelopment and diseases like Parkinson's, is a growing area of interest. Dr. Sarkis Mazmanian, a leading microbiome research scientist, discusses the gut-brain axis, the relationship between the microbiome and the immune system, and its impact on mood, stress response, social behavior, neurodivergence, and more. The ability to modify one's microbiome offers potential therapeutic benefits, making it an exciting area of research.

    • From harmful pathogens to complex role players in our bodiesOur microbiome, primarily bacteria, educates our immune system and affects other organ systems, including the nervous system. We have more bacterial cells than human cells, highlighting its profound impact on our health.

      The microbiome, which is the collective genetic material of all the organisms living in or on us, is now recognized as a crucial aspect of human health. This shift in perspective from viewing microbes as solely harmful pathogens to understanding their complex roles in our bodies began around 15 years ago and has gained mainstream acceptance in the last decade. Our microbiome, primarily composed of bacteria, plays significant roles in educating our immune system and even affecting other organ systems, including the nervous system. The microbiome's impact on our health is so profound that we have more bacterial cells in our bodies than human cells. This paradigm shift has led to the development of probiotics and a growing interest in the microbiome's potential to improve human health. The speaker, who has been researching the microbiome since 2006, is optimistic about its future implications for health and wellbeing.

    • Exploring the gut-brain connection at CaltechCaltech's unique culture fosters groundbreaking research on the gut-brain connection, with potential implications for health conditions and drug development.

      Caltech's unique culture encourages groundbreaking research and the exploration of unconventional ideas, creating an environment where quantum leaps in scientific discoveries and paradigm shifts can occur. A significant focus of this research lies in the gut-brain access, which refers to the real-time communication between the gut and the brain. This connection is not only intuitive but also scientifically proven through various mechanisms, such as neurons, nerves, small molecules, bacterial molecules, and the immune system. The gut, which houses the second most neurons in the body, and the brain are interconnected, allowing for the rapid transmission of signals between the two organs. This research has important implications for understanding various health conditions, including long-term effects of COVID-19, and opens up new possibilities for drug development.

    • The complex relationship between gut bacteria and humansGut bacteria play crucial roles in our immune system, metabolism, and nervous system, and the healthier we are, the better environment we provide for them, leading to a symbiotic relationship.

      Our gut bacteria have evolved in tandem with humans over millennia, creating a complex and intricate communication system between the gut and the brain. This relationship is essential for our overall health, as our gut bacteria play a significant role in modulating our immune system, metabolism, and nervous system. The organisms that have evolved specifically in humans are particularly effective in these roles, and research suggests that they may have co-evolved with us. These bacteria send their own molecules to bind our receptors, often "hijacking" them to activate beneficial responses. Overall, the healthier we are, the better environment we provide for our gut bacteria, leading to a symbiotic relationship where both humans and bacteria thrive. The gut is an ideal environment for bacteria due to its controlled temperature, moisture, and constant availability of nutrients and waste. By maintaining a healthy gut microbiome, we can ensure optimal communication between the gut and the brain, leading to better overall health and well-being.

    • Maintaining a balanced microbiome is crucial for immune system functionDisruptions to microbiome balance can lead to allergies and autoimmune diseases, particularly in young individuals during critical development periods.

      The balance and diversity of our microbiomes, the communities of bacteria and other organisms that live in and on our bodies, play a crucial role in maintaining the proper functioning of our immune systems. Disruptions to this balance, which can be caused by factors such as antibiotic use, cesarean births, lack of human contact, and diet, can lead to increased rates of allergies and autoimmune diseases. This is because the microbes we were previously exposed to helped prime and balance our immune systems, preventing allergies and autoimmunity. Young individuals are particularly susceptible to these disruptions during the critical periods of microbiome development, both in utero and during the first few years of life. The mother's microbiome is also important during this development, as the fetus is exposed to its molecules in the womb. Overall, maintaining a diverse and balanced microbiome is essential for optimal immune system function and can help prevent allergies and autoimmune diseases.

    • Microbiomes can change throughout adulthoodRecent research suggests that microbiomes can be modified, potentially preventing disease, but more studies are needed to confirm this and genetics play a role in microbiome health.

      Our understanding of the microbiome's stability and its role in disease development is evolving. Recent research suggests that our microbiomes are more malleable than previously believed, with the potential for change throughout adulthood. This means that it may be possible to correct a trajectory towards an unhealthy microbiome and potentially prevent disease. However, it's important to note that this is still a developing area of research and more studies are needed to confirm these findings. Additionally, genetics play a significant role in how the microbiome interacts with an individual's health. While the possibility of diseases being transmitted through microbiomes is intriguing, it's important to approach this idea with caution and consider other factors, such as genetics, in disease development. Overall, the microbiome's role in disease is an exciting area of research, but it's important to approach it with a critical and nuanced perspective.

    • Genetics and Environment: The Interplay Shaping Our HealthGenetics and environment significantly impact our health, and addressing both through lifestyle choices, nutrition, supplements, and apparel can lead to improved overall health.

      While genetics play a role in our health, our environment, including lifestyle choices and the microbiome, significantly impact how our genes express themselves. The importance of addressing both genetic predispositions and environmental factors cannot be overstated. Nutrition, supplementation, apparel, and other lifestyle choices can all contribute to modifying our genetic predispositions and overall health. For instance, the quality of our supplements and the convenience they offer, like AG1, can ensure we address nutritional deficiencies despite busy schedules. Similarly, apparel from companies like ONS Swiss Labs can enhance performance and sustainability. Furthermore, conversations around critical issues like mental health, sex, politics, and more, as explored in The Conversation podcast, help us understand the complex interplay between genetics and the environment. Ultimately, understanding this interplay and making informed choices can help us lead healthier lives.

    • The connection between our genes and microbiomes in diseaseGenetic vulnerabilities and microbiome health are interconnected, with a robust microbiome potentially preventing disease. Compromised microbiomes may amplify genetic risks or even become pathogenic, contributing to disease development.

      Our genetic vulnerabilities and the health of our microbiomes are interconnected in the context of disease. Many of us may carry genetic predispositions but remain healthy due to a robust microbiome. However, if our microbiomes become compromised, they may contribute to disease development by amplifying genetic risks or even becoming pathogenic. This interaction is likely to be the majority of how our microbiomes influence disease. The connection between Parkinson's disease and the gut microbiome was a long-standing hunch based on historical observations. Parkinson himself noted GI symptoms in his patients with the disease as early as 1817. Decades later, researchers discovered that a significant percentage of Parkinson's patients experience constipation and other non-motor symptoms years before their diagnosis. With no clear evidence for or against the hypothesis, researchers took a chance and found that clearing the microbiome of genetically predisposed mice eliminated their symptoms. This simple experiment provided the first evidence that the microbiome plays a role in Parkinson's disease.

    • Research on microbiome's role in neurological disordersResearch suggests a link between microbiome and Parkinson's, but the role in autism is still under investigation, with a potential molecule called 4-ethylphenyl sulfate being studied for its role in autism behavior and anxiety.

      Research conducted in 2013 showed that removing the microbiome in animals led to the removal of alpha-synuclein aggregates, associated with Parkinson's disease, in addition to symptoms. This discovery was met with open-mindedness in the neurobiology and neuroscience community due to the known connection between GI symptoms and Parkinson's. However, in the field of autism research, the connection between the microbiome and the disorder is still a contentious issue. A molecule called 4-ethylphenyl sulfate (4 EPS) has been identified as potentially playing a role in autism, as it is elevated in a mouse model of the disorder and can be modulated by the microbiome. While studies suggest that this molecule may drive behavioral changes, particularly anxiety, in mice, its role in autism in humans is still under investigation. Overall, the connection between the microbiome and neurological disorders is an active area of research, with promising findings in Parkinson's but ongoing questions in autism.

    • Bacteria in the gut produce a molecule that interacts with brain cellsGut bacteria produce a molecule that crosses the brain barrier, interacts with oligodendrocytes, and affects myelination, potentially contributing to neurological conditions like autism and Parkinson's disease.

      Certain bacteria in the gut produce a molecule called 4-ethylphenol sulfate (4 EPS) which can cross the gut epithelium and the blood-brain barrier, and once in the brain, it interacts with specific cells called oligodendrocytes. Oligodendrocytes are responsible for myelinating neurons, allowing for efficient signal transmission between different brain regions. When oligodendrocytes don't develop properly, there is a reduction in myelination, leading to changes in brain connectivity, which is observed in neurodevelopmental conditions like autism. The same mechanism might also be involved in Parkinson's disease, where bacterial proteins induce the aggregation of alpha-synuclein in the intestines, leading to its entry into the brain and subsequent neurodegeneration. These findings suggest that the gut microbiome plays a crucial role in brain function and development, and dysregulation of this relationship could lead to various neurological conditions.

    • Gut bacteria trigger Parkinson's through intestinal protein aggregationNew research reveals gut bacteria contribute to Parkinson's through intestinal protein aggregation, which can spread to the brain via the vagus nerve. A drug compound inhibits this process in mice, offering potential new treatment.

      Recent research suggests that gut bacteria play a role in the development of Parkinson's disease, but it's not the bacterial protein that ultimately causes the disease. Instead, bacterial molecules trigger a cascade of events in the intestine that leads to protein aggregation in neurons. This protein aggregation can then spread to the brain via the vagus nerve. A drug compound has been developed that can inhibit this process in the gut, leading to improvements in behavior and brain pathology in mice. However, this mechanism is likely not the only way the gut is involved in Parkinson's, as only about 18-20% of people with the disease have the specific bacterial protein in question. The vagus nerve, which connects the gut to the brain, has been linked to a reduced risk of Parkinson's in people who have had the nerve severed in surgery or had their appendix removed. However, this is not a recommended solution due to the numerous side effects of vagotomy. Instead, identifying the specific microbe or bacteria that triggers this pathway and finding a way to target it is the current therapeutic goal.

    • Rodent models in drug discovery have limitationsDiversifying animal models and incorporating population studies can improve drug discovery by ensuring effectiveness in the diverse human population and reducing failed human trials.

      While basic biology discovered in rodents often translates to humans, the efficacy of drugs developed using rodent models often does not. This is due in part to the fact that we use genetically identical, environmentally limited rodents in research, which does not accurately reflect the genetic and environmental diversity of the human population. Additionally, the drugs that are effective in rodents are often not effective in humans due to differences in metabolism and other factors. To improve drug discovery, it is important to diversify animal models and incorporate population studies into research. This will help ensure that drugs are effective in the diverse human population and reduce the number of drugs that fail in human trials.

    • Empowering users with innovative solutionsSquarespace simplifies brand creation and success with Blueprint and SEO tools, while InsideTracker personalizes health journeys with blood work and DNA analysis.

      Both Squarespace and InsideTracker offer innovative solutions that make complex processes simpler and more accessible. Squarespace's latest design system, Squarespace Blueprint, and SEO tools help users create and succeed in their brands with ease and flexibility. Meanwhile, InsideTracker empowers individuals to take control of their health journey by providing personalized, easy-to-understand information and guidance based on their blood work and DNA analysis. For Squarespace, this means having a design guru and seamless payment options at your fingertips. For InsideTracker, it's gaining valuable insights into your health markers and optimizing them for improved overall well-being. Both platforms demonstrate the power of technology in streamlining complex tasks and putting valuable information and tools at our disposal.

    • Discovering New Insights Through Direct Research on PeopleDirect research on people in the field of microbiome and neurological disorders can lead to valuable discoveries with low risk. Depression, with its consistent microbial signature and potential for microbiome-targeted interventions, is an attractive area for research.

      Going directly to people for research, particularly in the field of microbiome and neurological disorders, can lead to valuable discoveries with low risk. The effectiveness of drugs, whether they are molecules or living organisms, depends on their potency and specificity. Drugs with weak effect sizes may not produce noticeable results in the clinic. The microbiome's role in neurological disorders, such as depression, shows promising signs due to compelling human data and the consistency of microbial signatures across different populations. Depression is an area where the microbiome's impact is likely to be significant, as neurotransmitter-producing bacteria play a role in its development. Unlike Alzheimer's and other disorders, depression exhibits a consistent microbial signature, suggesting that the microbiome may be a viable target for modulating depressive activity. Additionally, there is limited evidence of physical damage to the depressed brain, making it an attractive area for research.

    • Understanding the complex relationship between the gut and the brain and the role of the microbiomeAnimal models are being used to test hypotheses and develop precise interventions to address microbiome-related health issues, with the future lying in personalized medicine where specific beneficial organisms are matched to individuals.

      The complex relationship between the gut and the brain, and the role of the microbiome in shaping both, is still an area of ongoing research. While we have made progress in understanding the connection between genetics, microbiome, and health, it is not yet clear whether changes in the microbiome originate in the gut or the brain. Furthermore, the impact of these changes on overall biology is not yet fully understood. Animal models are being used to test hypotheses and develop precise interventions, such as introducing specific microbes or eradicating harmful ones, to address microbiome-related health issues. The current approach, fecal transplants, involves transferring an entire microbiome from a healthy donor to a patient, but the future lies in personalized medicine, where specific beneficial organisms are matched to individuals. While we can currently manipulate the microbiome, the ability to correct genetics remains limited. Therefore, targeting the microbiome may offer a promising approach to managing disorders with a genetic predisposition. However, more research is needed to fully understand the mechanisms involved and to develop effective, long-term interventions.

    • Managing Chronic Disorders with Fecal Transplants and AIWhile fecal transplants can effectively treat acute conditions, chronic disorders may require long-term management through regular resupplementation. AI can aid in managing the complexity of microbiome data and interactions to improve diagnosis and understanding of diseases.

      While fecal transplants have a high success rate for treating acute conditions like C. diff infections, chronic disorders such as neurological conditions, allergies, and autoimmune diseases may require long-term management through regular resupplementation. The microbiome, shaped by lifestyle and genetics, can change back to a pathogenic state. AI could potentially be helpful in managing the complexity of data and interactions between various microorganisms to aid in diagnosis. The microbiome space is generating massive datasets across various conditions, making it an ideal area for AI applications to uncover hidden truths and patterns. Ongoing studies aim to test the concept of causality between changes in the microbiome and diseases.

    • Exploring the link between gut microbiome and food cravings through extensive researchAdvancements in data storage and analysis enable researchers to uncover new insights into the complex relationship between gut microbiome and food cravings, potentially leading to interventions for diseases like autism and autoimmune diseases.

      Understanding the complex relationship between the gut microbiome and food cravings requires extensive research, particularly in the areas of autism and autoimmune diseases, where early diagnosis allows for the collection of comprehensive historical data. This data, which can include molecular data, metadata, and behavioral data, can provide valuable insights into the development of diseases and potentially identify windows for intervention. The ability to store and analyze large, multimodal datasets, including molecular data, behaviors, and immune profiles, is a significant advancement that can lead to new discoveries. However, privacy concerns must be addressed as the collection and analysis of such data may involve a "voluntary surveillance state." In the field of food cravings specifically, recent research suggests that the gut microbiome plays a role, but more studies are needed to fully understand the mechanisms at play.

    • The microbiome impacts feeding behaviors and food preferencesRecent research suggests that the microbiome influences feeding behaviors and food preferences by affecting the desire for palatable or hedonic foods, such as sugar and high-fat foods, and potentially sending signals to the brain leading to cravings.

      The microbiome's influence on obesity goes beyond just metabolic effects. Recent research suggests that the microbiome also impacts feeding behaviors and food preferences in both mice and humans. For instance, a mouse's microbiome affects its desire for palatable or hedonic foods, such as sugar and high-fat foods. When a mouse's microbiome is removed, it shows a greater desire for these foods compared to a mouse with a complex microbiota. This finding adds to the growing body of evidence linking the microbiome to behavioral effects. Moreover, researchers are currently investigating how certain organisms in the microbiome send signals to the brain, leading to cravings for sugary treats. This discovery could potentially lead to new interventions for addiction and other learned behaviors. Additionally, the idea that the food we eat shapes our microbiome, which in turn influences our cravings, is not entirely far-fetched and warrants further investigation.

    • The gut microbiome influences our food cravingsThe gut microbiome can create intense cravings for unhealthy foods and change taste preferences towards healthier options as we transition to better diets.

      Our gut microbiome plays a significant role in our cravings and food preferences. When we consume unhealthy foods, our gut microbiome can create intense cravings that only subside over time. As we transition to healthier food options, our taste preferences can change, and we may even come to enjoy the healthy foods we once disliked. This hypothesis, though not yet proven, is testable and could be explored through experiments involving feeding mice different diets and measuring their cravings. The microbiome's impact on our food preferences and cravings could be influenced by various factors, including behavioral and neuronal pathways. However, the microbiome's role in our overall health extends beyond food preferences, as it is linked to various metabolic systems, neurological disorders, and mood regulation. Understanding the intricate relationship between our microbiome and our thoughts, behaviors, and health raises questions about our sense of self and the extent to which our microbes influence our lives. While we may not fully understand the extent of this influence, it's clear that our microbiome is an essential and modifiable component of our complex being.

    • Lifestyle changes, particularly diet, can significantly impact health outcomesA healthy lifestyle, including a diverse and fiber-rich diet, exercise, good sleep, and stress management, can lead to a healthy microbiome and overall well-being. Diet has the most significant impact on the microbiome.

      While genetics and microbiome play a role in various health conditions, lifestyle changes, particularly diet, can have a significant impact on improving health outcomes. For instance, many people with diabetes can manage their condition through better eating habits and increased physical activity, rather than relying on medication. The microbiome, which is influenced by diet, can contribute positively or negatively to health conditions. A healthy lifestyle, including a diverse and fiber-rich diet, exercise, good sleep, and stress management, can lead to a healthy microbiome and overall well-being. The diet has the most significant impact on the microbiome, as it is primarily responsible for providing the microbiome with nutrients and shaping its composition. Plant-based diets, rich in various types of fiber, have been linked to a healthy microbiome and better health outcomes. While fermented foods and probiotics can also contribute to a healthy microbiome, they should be viewed as complementary, rather than the sole solution, to a healthy lifestyle.

    • Understanding our microbiome for personalized health interventionsWhile microbiome testing can provide insights, focus on preventative measures and personalized interventions based on gene-environment interactions for optimal health outcomes.

      While non-human organisms in fermented foods can impact our health, the organisms in our own bodies are likely more potent and should be the focus for therapeutic effects. However, determining the current state of one's microbiome diversity and health can be challenging, as there are numerous companies offering microbiome testing, but the interpretation and actionable outcomes are still uncertain. The preventative aspect of microbiome research holds more promise, as understanding gene-environment interactions could help prevent diseases. Additionally, taking natural supplements or making lifestyle changes based on microbiome results may encourage healthier habits overall. Looking ahead, the combination of genetic and microbiome testing could provide valuable insights for personalized health recommendations. In the next five years, we may see significant advancements in preventing diseases and promoting healthier lifestyles through personalized microbiome interventions.

    • Big Pharma's Uncertainty with Microbiome-Based TreatmentsRegulatory issues and societal acceptance aren't major concerns for microbiome treatments, but financial reasons and lack of precedent for living therapeutics deter Big Pharma. Smaller companies and health food firms may lead breakthroughs, but intellectual property protection and clear business models pose challenges.

      The microbiome offers an opportunity for a healthier lifestyle, but the involvement of big pharmaceutical companies in developing microbiome-based treatments is uncertain. While regulatory issues and societal acceptance are not major concerns, financial reasons and a lack of precedent for living therapeutics are deterring big pharma from fully embracing this field. Smaller companies and health food companies are expected to make the biggest breakthroughs. However, the lack of a clear business model and intellectual property protection for live organisms pose challenges. The current approach is to genetically modify organisms and protect formulations and methods of use instead. Despite these challenges, if the customer demand and benefits are proven, it could attract big pharma's interest.

    • Regulatory challenges and high costs make genetically modified microbes less attractive for pharma companiesPharma companies prefer developing small molecule drugs targeting specific microbiome pathways due to lower regulatory risks and costs.

      While the potential of genetically modified microbes as therapeutics is promising, the regulatory challenges and high investment costs make it a less attractive option for large pharmaceutical companies at the moment. Instead, companies like Axial and Nuance Health are focusing on developing small molecule drugs that target specific pathways in the microbiome, which have shown efficacy in early human studies and have lower safety risks due to their limited circulation. These approaches are more appealing to pharmaceutical companies as they align with their expertise and investment strategies.

    • Understanding Brain-Gut Communication for Parkinson's InterventionsIt could take over 5 years for approved Parkinson's drugs from microbiome research, but addressing gastrointestinal symptoms through new approaches could significantly improve quality of life. Be cautious of quick fixes and evaluate information from reliable sources.

      Axial is working on understanding the communication between the brain and gut microbes in order to develop interventions for conditions like Parkinson's disease. While there are ongoing efforts in this area, it's estimated that it could be more than 5 years, possibly closer to 8 to 10 years, before an approved drug is available for some Parkinson's patients. In the meantime, addressing the debilitating gastrointestinal symptoms associated with Parkinson's through new approaches could significantly improve quality of life. The microbiome research field has seen a renaissance in recent years, offering potential solutions for various chronic disorders beyond just infectious diseases. To learn more, it's essential to critically evaluate information from reliable sources and be cautious of marketing claims or products that promise quick fixes.

    • Approaching microbiome information with skepticism and critical thinkingWhile microbiome analysis can provide valuable insights, it's essential to approach sources with skepticism and critical thinking, and remember that there are various ways to influence the microbiome.

      While sequencing one's microbiome can provide valuable information, it's essential to approach the sources of this information with skepticism and critical thinking. The potential applications of microbiome analysis are vast, but it's crucial to separate fact from fiction. The world of microbiome research is continually evolving, and there's a wealth of information available for those who want to learn. As always, it's up to each individual to filter the information and make informed decisions based on their unique circumstances. Additionally, it's important to remember that there are various ways to influence the microbiome, such as through diet, probiotics, and medications. The key is to stay informed and make choices that support overall health and wellbeing. Lastly, it's always exciting to learn about new discoveries and breakthroughs in the world of health and wellness. So, stay curious, keep learning, and don't hesitate to reach out to experts and thought leaders in the field.

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