Episode 51: Janie Chang (The Library Of Legends)

Charlie and Kristy Woodson Harvey (The Summer Of Songbirds) discuss whether we should like her character, Lanier (who stops her best friend and brother being together); the various plot threads she left out of the book (including alternative endings); and US summer camps (both Kristy's experiences, and the effect of the pandemic lockdowns). We also spend a good amount of time discussing the pre-actor's-strike announcement of an adaptation of Kristy's Peachtree Bluff series and her next two books.

Kristy's The Wedding Veil
Kristy's Christmas In Peachtree Bluff
Friends & Fiction
Kristy's interview with Susan M Boyer
The announcement about the Peachtree Bluff adaptation on Kristy's website

Where to find Kristy online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

02:14 The inspiration: a sailing trip at a summer camp Kristy went to with her family during the pandemic
06:49 So Lanier and Rich came first?...
08:02 How Kristy doesn't write in chronological order and how it ends up working well
12:01 How Kristy feels about Lanier
15:35 Why was important to write about Daphne's family and the problems there are there?
19:21 Why no narrator for Mary Stuart?
25:39 This book was originally longer (what got cut)
29:24 Kristy's childhood experiences of US summer camps
33:52 Why Kristy ends her book with a scene about Daphne, Lanier, and Mary Stuart's children going to camp
34:51 Real camps that had to close due to the lockdowns
36:24 The concept of 'hard things'
40:27 Other endings Kristy had in mind for The Summer Of Songbirds
44:43 A sequel?
48:18 The on-hold Peachtree Bluff adaptation
52:16 What's next (A Happier Life, and and very, very brief peak at Kristy's 2025 book)

Charlie and Maggie Brookes (Acts Of Love And War) discuss the small group of British Quakers who went to aid refugees during the Spanish Civil War, the way the war tore families apart as people chose different sides, and why she ended her romantic thread differently than might be expected.

All referenced media in this episode:
Francesca Wilson's In The Margins Of Chaos
Maggie Brookes' Acts Of Love And War
Maggie Brookes' The Prisoner's Wife

Buy Acts of Love and War and other books mentioned

Where to find Maggie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:53 The initial inspiration: Professor Farah Mendlesohn's PhD on the Spanish Civil War
03:39 The very small group of Quakers, including Alfred Jacob, who went out to Spain from Britain to help refugees
07:02 The real life women in Maggie's book: Francesca Wilson, Kanty Cooper
09:30 How the Quakers got their supplies to Spain, and the refugee children's colonies
15:03 What happened to the refugees after the war
18:26 Maggie's fictional characters - Lucy, Tom, and Jamie and having two brothers on different sides of the war
22:20 People in Britain who thought Franco was right, and why they thought that, and we mention the non-intervention pact many countries agreed to
27:27 On why Maggie had one of the brothers die, and who was better for Lucy
29:59 The ending, Maggie leaving Lucy single
32:00 Maggie tells us about the inspiration of her first book, The Prisoner's Wife, and Maggie briefs us on what she's writing now

Photo credit: Lyn Gregory
Disclosure: If you buy books linked to our site, we may earn a commission from Bookshop.org, whose fees support independent bookshops

Charlie and Stacey Thomas (The Revels) discuss English Civil War era witch hunting which includes the methods, the propaganda, and the awful theatre of it all. We also discuss Stacey's inclusion of actual witches in her narrative, and Stacey's recommendations of Wolf Hall and A Little Life.

Witchfinder General
James VI/I's Daemonologie
Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall
Hanya Yanagihara's A Little Life
Bridget Collins' The Binding
Stacey's episode on Witches Of Scotland
I spoke to Amita Parikh in episode 72

Where to find Stacey online

Twitter || Instagram || TikTok

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:20 What made you want to tell this story of a man who is a witch, and his role in the judgement of witches?
02:23 Stacey's interest in James I and his favouritism of different male courtiers
04:22 The theatrical elements of the book
05:58 The torture of the accused 'witches' that led to fantasy stories being created
08:51 The influence of the printing press and propaganda pamphlets on the public's thoughts about accused women
10:02 About knot magic
12:09 The importance of having actual witches in the book and the impact of religion
14:32 Stacey's interest in taxidermy and Althamia's experience
16:41 Althamia's impact on the novel
17:54 The themes of grief and guilt in the book
20:51 Castor and Pollux
22:20 The writing style and narrative voice, and Stacey recommends Wolf Hall and A Little Life
25:24 All about Will and how he fits into the story
30:44 Is John Rush a witch?... And the fact he's left at large at the end
34:40 The initial execution scene did not originally happen...
35:57 Althamia says "Happy endings are beyond most people" and talks of proper endings - how does Stacey see The Revels in that sense?
39:15 Modern day apologies for witch hunters by the church
42:02 What Stacey's working on now (this turns into a lengthy discussion on debutantes and their publicity machines

With thanks to Jawnson.

Charlie and Celina Baljeet Basra (Happy) discuss the experiences undocumented migrants to Western Europe face, French film director Jean Luc Goddard's seminal film Bande À Part, Indian talkshow Koffee With Karan, and Celina's particular usage of Umbrella, ella, ella, eh, eh, eh.

The Abduction Of Europe
A review of 'Park', the 2017 exhibition curated by Celina
Bande À Part
Bruce Bégout's Le Park
Uski Roti
There are no clips of the discussed Koffee With Karan episode on YouTube, but if you've the right channel, it is from 7th November 2010

Where to find Celina online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:48 Why Celina wanted to tell this story: inspiration from a distant relatives' migration from India to Italy
05:24 Celina's highly unique narrative structure (fragmented) and how she used it to further achieve her aims
09:45 Would there have been a way for Happy's life to improve, if what happened to him at the end didn't happen?
12:07 The real riot of exploited migrants that was mentioned in the book
14:36 The character of Europe and the way Celina created a woman from a continent
19:32 The importance of the presence of Happy's family in the novel
21:20 The phrases of Italian vocabulary included that shows us where Happy is in his learning about his new life
24:35 Wonderland - the real one in Jalandhar and Celina's fictionisation of it
28:53 The inclusion of Jean Luc Goddard's Bande À Part
34:35 The inclusion of Indian talkshow Koffee With Karan
40:22 Why Celina included the other narrative voices of Harbir and Zhivago at the end
43:37 What's next

Photo credit: Lilian Scarlet.

Charlie and Rachel Abbott (Don't Look Away) discuss young carers and the guilt they can feel, trafficking in Cornwall - both fact and fiction - and having her series' policewoman staying in the background of the story rather than take the spotlight. (We talk about that a couple of times, I loved it!)

Please note that there are mentions of suicide in this episode.

And So It Begins
Stranger Child
Come A Little Closer
Sleep Tight
About the trafficking at Newlyn Harbour in late 2019

Where to find Rachel online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:40 The inspiration for Nancy and Lola's story
03:15 Nancy's feeling of guilt as a young carer who failed to save her mother
06:23 The way Rachel really fleshes out the non-police characters in her thriller
11:05 How long Lola will be in prison
13:48 Research Rachel does in terms of the police
16:55 How important is policewomen Stephanie (the linking factor of the books) compared to Nancy (one of this book's victims)?
20:18 Stephanie is written in the third person and Nancy is in the first person...
22:20 Why set the book in Cornwall, and why create a fictional village in Cornwall
25:36 The trafficking in the book and real situations
29:34 How Rachel goes from one plot to many - the expansion
33:15 How Rachel uses technology in her books as opposed to finding tech makes things too easy
35:03 What's next for Stephanie King, book 4 in the series?
41:26 Was there anyone that Rachel's editing agent didn't like, or did really like?
43:26 Rachel's current work on her next Tom Douglas book

Photo credit: Andrew Crowley.

Charlie and Karen Hamilton (The Contest) discuss the specifics of climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and the vast support crews, her ridiculously privileged holidaying characters and where their requests are based in reality, and why everyone is obsessed with toilets. We then move on to an extensive discussion of the thriller aspect of Karen's book and whether, even though there is one killer in her book, there are in fact more.

Erick Kivelege's Climbing Kilimanjaro With Africa's Top Guide
Kilimanjaro Porters Society

Where to find Karen online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:14 Mt Kilimanjaro and luxury travel
05:26 How climbing the mountain goes - the specifics of it
15:30 Karen's characters - Florence, Jacob, and Hugo
24:55 The grief in the book and the whole contest of two groups climbing Kilimanjaro
26:54 The violence and discussing who the killer is, and the associated theme of isolation
36:31 Ethical Getaways and BVT merging and the effect on Florence and Jacob
39:34 What's next (brief)

Photo credit: Emma Moore.

Charlie and Radhika Sanghani (I Wish We Weren't Related) discuss having alopecia, healing from being a people pleaser and self-empowerment in general, and her comic novel which includes an ex-fiance turned future brother-in-law, and a father who died, was not dead, but then died - true fictional story. Radhika's book also includes beloved cats, so we talk about cats too.

Asha Bhosle
Pema Chödrön
Marian Williamson talking about choosing between love and fear
Radhika's novel 30 Things I Love About Myself

Where to find Radhika online

Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:35 The inspiration, in particular the theme of healing from alopecia
04:39 The characters, in particular Saraswati in Bollywood
08:14 Satya Auntie, and spirituality, in particular Buddhism and what Marian Williamson teaches about all our decisions being due to love and fear
12:37 On character Reeva's people pleasing and our own!
15:27 Reeva's trauma from her accident
17:36 Reeva's speech at her father's funeral
19:21 The choices made in regards to Reeva and Nick's relationship
21:34 The importance of including a second funeral, this time for someone Reeva knew and loved
22:55 Cats! All the cats!
25:52 What Radhika wanted to say about family
27:14 What's next

Photo credit: SEBC Photography.

Charlie and Gill Paul (A Beautiful Rival) discuss the working lives of and rivalry between businesswomen Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein, and the antisemitism in the US during WW2. We also discuss our views of Wallis Simpson.

We spoke about Gill's book The Second Marriage (Jackie And Maria in the US) in episode 42
The Powder And The Glory
Lindy Woodhead's Warpaint
Cosmetics And Skin
Gill's Another Woman's Husband
Wendy Holden's The Duchess

Where to find Gill online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || TikTok

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:03 Why these women?
02:20 Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein hated each other but they never met...
02:59 Elizabeth's and Helena's backgrounds
07:28 The work Arden and Rubinstein put in to become successful
10:30 How Gill wrote her versions of Elizabeth and Helena
11:29 Elizabeth Arden's snobbery
13:46 The antisemitism in the West despite those countries going to war, particularly that coming from Arden
17:49 Irene Delaney, Elizabeth's forgotten 40-year-long PA
20:34 Moving factual events round to suit the narrative
22:24 Elizabeth employed her rival's ex-husband!
24:14 Advertisements and selling the companies
28:03 Helena Rubinstein's first husband was the publisher of Lady Chatterley's Lover
29:40 Rubinstein created the idea of skin types
32:39 The Suffragettes apparently wore lipstick on their marches, and talking about Gill's next book
34:53 What other people might Gill write about in future
36:33 Discussing our views of Wallis Simpson

Charlie and Tasneem Abdur-Rashid (Finding Mr Perfectly Fine) discuss writing a story that hadn't yet been told in novels and working with getting the balance and choices right when it came to writing for Bengali Muslims, Muslims from other cultures, and other readers. We also discuss the guys she cut from the first draft, why she decided to finish her rom-com on the somewhat controversial note she did, oh and if you're looking for a great Turkish restaurant in North London, we've got you covered.

Please note that there is swearing and discussion of rape in this episode.

Not Another Mum Pod ('Was My Husband Gay?' is episode 6)
Tasneem's 'he's a 10 but...' TikTok video
Capital Restaurant, Wood Green
Hala, Green Lanes
Gokyuzu
Antepliler
Tasneem's Instagram

Where to find Tasneem online

Twitter || Instagram || TikTok

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:44 The inspiration for Finding Mr Perfectly Fine
04:33 About Zara, Adam, and Hamza
08:48 How Tasneem wrote and planned the book, and balancing the different audiences she was writing for
13:30 Wherein Tasneem's dad bought her a computer for writing on when she was 10 years old
17:17 Deleted sections of the book - Zara met a lot more people!
20:16 Writing from a specific Muslim perspective (British Bengali) and pushback; also the Sylheti dialect
24:12 On the part where Yasmin wears hijab to cover her beauty when chaperoning Zara on a meet up
27:04 Hamza and Zara's lack of thinking about how controlling he is whereas others can see it
31:47 The Tariq plotline and backstory
33:26 Adam and Zara's mismatched values and working them out, Hamza, and the decisions Tasneem made for the ending
42:02 What happens beyond the ending pages
43:17 The possibility of a book about Amina
44:03 Further info about Tasneem's next book
47:31 On North London Turkish restaurants
49:47 On Tasneem's podcast, Not Another Mum Pod

Charlie Place and Amanda Geard (The Moon Gate) discuss Tasmania in WW2 and in general, Australia's famed poet Banjo Paterson and his fellow Bush Ballad writers, British Blackshirts and the Mitfords, and the Moorgate Tube Crash in London. On a lighter note, Amanda also tells us much about the writing of her book, including a lot of what she left out in order to reduce her book from the lengthy draft it was to the mere 500 hardback pages it is.

Amanda was the guest in episode 63 in which we spoke about The Midnight House
Waltzing Matilda
The Man From Snowy River
The Mitfords - Letters Between Six Sisters
The Moorgate Tube Crash
I spoke to Kate Thompson about the Bethnal Green Tube Disaster in episode 76
Penghana

Where to find Amanda online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:50 The inspiration - Banjo Paterson's Bush ballads and mining in Tasmania
03:17 Keeping up with all the characters and planning the timelines
08:43 How there is so much of Amanda in this book
10:51 Mining on the West Coast of Tasmania, and Amanda's dad
13:41 Banjo Paterson and Australian poetry
17:49 Tasmania in WW2, including Prime Minister Robert Menzies
26:01 Women Blackshirts in Britain (including Diana Mitford) and the awfulness of Edeline
30:47 The Moon Gate's lengthy first draft
33:12 Moon Gates and rebirth
35:45 The focus on grief
37:23 Including the Moorgate Tube Crash
40:44 Amanda's Balinn returns!
42:45 The epilogue and what was left out
44:45 Rose and what might have been
47:20 The House of the book, Towerhurst and Australia's Federation houses, and huon pine trees
52:46 What Amanda found when renovating an old Irish house
55:07 More on Amanda's current manuscript, a story looking at occupied Norway