From Harlem to Harvard: How Dorien Nuñez Tackled the Racial Wealth Disparity

In this episode of "Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People," Simma sits down with Tony Franklin, also known as Tony Tidbit, the Vice President of Advertising, Sales, and Client Partnerships at DirecTV. Tony shares his personal experiences as a Black executive in corporate America and discusses the importance of open and honest conversations about race.

Simma and Tony discuss the challenges faced by people of color in corporate America, including the pressure to assimilate and the fear of being labeled as "too aggressive." Tony shares a personal story about trying to fit in by dressing and speaking like his white colleagues, only to realize that being himself was the key to his success.

They also delve into the issues surrounding diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the workplace. Tony highlights the resistance some organizations have towards implementing DEI initiatives, often due to unfounded fears of losing something. He emphasizes the need for companies to diversify their ranks and create a safe environment for all employees to thrive.

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The conversation touches on the importance of building emotional connections and breaking down barriers between people of different races. Tony shares his own experience of starting an open conversation on race at work, where employees could share their perspectives and learn from one another. He emphasizes the power of active listening and creating a safe space for dialogue.

Throughout the episode, Tony and Simma stress the need for individuals to take action and speak up about racial issues. They encourage listeners to step out of their comfort zones, engage in conversations about race, and challenge their own unconscious biases. By doing so, they believe that real change can happen in both corporate America and society as a whole.

Check out another great podcast on race hosted by my friend and colleague “Tony Franklin aka Tony Tidbit,” A Black Executive Perspective

To listen to more episodes of "Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People," visit www.raceconvo.com. And don't forget to share the show with others who are interested in having open and honest conversations about race.

Takeaways from this episode:

·         Be yourself and embrace your unique talents and personality in the workplace.

·         Managers play a crucial role in creating an inclusive environment and empowering their employees.

·         Diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives are essential for the success of organizations.

·         Building emotional connections and engaging in open conversations about race can break down barriers and foster understanding.

·         Individuals should take action by speaking up, challenging unconscious biases, and actively listening to others.

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Tony Franklin (Tony Tidbit) Bio

Tony currently serves as Vice President of Advertising Sales and Client Partnerships at
DIRECTV, where he brings a wealth of experience to the role, boasting over 27 years in
the media industry.

Motivated by the events surrounding George Floyd, Tony initiated a workplace series
titled "An Open Conversation on Race" This initiative provides a safe environment for open and honest discussions, aiming to raise awareness and educate individuals on
various aspects of race, particularly within the context of Corporate America.

Tony is the founder and host (Tony Tidbit) of “A Black Executive Perspective
Podcast.” A podcast that sheds light on intersectionality, systemic racism, and other
challenging issues shrouding the experiences of Black professionals in America's
corporate environment. Beyond his professional endeavors, Tony channels his passion
for motivation into Tony's Tidbits, a daily inspirational email reaching thousands of
recipients nationwide.

Outside of work, Tony prioritizes quality time with his family. He is happily married to his
wife Gayle and is the proud father of three beautiful daughters: Samada, Mikaela, and
Madison.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her for your next DEIB  event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

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Previous Episodes

Cancel Culture Unmasking the Dangers of Instant Judgment and Outrage

From Conflict to Compassion: Jewish, Muslim, and Christian Leaders Share Their Perspectives on the Israel-Gaza Crisis

Unmasking the Toxicity of Racism: A Raw Conversation with The Contraband Wagon

Loved this episode?  Leave us a review and rating

 In this thought-provoking podcast episode, Simma, the Inclusionist, engages in a candid conversation with Patricia Mushim Ikeda, a Japanese-American Buddhist and mindfulness teacher, and Joel Davis Brown, an African-American man who is an author, an organizational development consultant and spoken word artist. Together, they delve into the controversial topic of cancel culture, exploring its impact on society and the importance of fostering dialogue across racial and ideological divides.

 The episode begins by addressing the viral nature of outrage and disgust on social media, which fuels cancel culture. The guests emphasize the need for critical thinking skills and the ability to engage in respectful discourse, rather than resorting to attacking and silencing others. They highlight the importance of recognizing nuance, understanding power dynamics, and promoting empathy in conversations about race and other sensitive topics.

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The conversation also touches on the complexities of cancel culture, including the challenges of determining what is offensive and who gets to decide. The Joel and Mushim share personal anecdotes and examples, highlighting the potential for growth and change when people are open to dialogue and willing to learn from one another. They emphasize the value of embracing diversity, practicing grace, and creating spaces for genuine connection.

Overall, this episode encourages listeners to challenge the polarizing nature of cancel culture and instead foster a conversational culture that promotes understanding, empathy, and personal growth. It serves as a reminder that by engaging in meaningful dialogue, we can break down barriers, challenge assumptions, and build bridges across differences.

Key Points:

●        What is cancel culture? Cancel culture is the act of attacking and ostracizing individuals for their beliefs, actions, or statements, often on social media platforms.

●        It is characterized by a lack of dialogue, understanding, and empathy, as people quickly dismiss and "cancel" others without giving them a chance to learn, grow, or change.

●        Cancel culture relies on outrage and disgust, hijacking our brain chemistry and preventing critical thinking and open-mindedness.

●        Joel Davis Brown and Mushim Ikeda emphasize the need for critical thinking skills, empathy, and open dialogue to combat cancel culture and promote inclusivity.

●        There is a difference between unintentional errors, mistakes and lack of knowledge, and people who consciously espouse hate in their language, actions, and writing.

●        Mushim, Joel, and Simma see and have experienced the potential for growth and change in individuals.

●        Cancel culture can hinder progress toward a more inclusive society by shutting down conversations and alienating individuals who may have the potential to become allies or advocates.

●        There needs to be allowance for grace, resilience, and empowerment in navigating difficult conversations and promoting understanding across different perspectives.

●        Simma Lieberman, Joel Davis Brown, and Mushim Ikeda share their own personal stories of saying the "wrong thing," because they didn't have the right information.

●        They caution against the dangers of focusing on mistakes in specific terminology, instead of addressing the broader issues of systemic inequality and discrimination.

●        Canceling someone who has made an unintentional error, rather than engaging with that person, asking what they meant, and sharing the impact is lazy. It's an indication of a certain kind of privilege.

●        Cancel culture can hinder the development of genuine connections and hinder the opportunity for personal growth and learning.

●        Ultimately we want people to embrace inclusion, compassion, and empathy. That can't happen in an atmosphere of fear, scorn, and "lifelong punishment."

Takeaway:

Cancel culture poses a threat to inclusive conversations and understanding. Instead of immediately dismissing and canceling individuals, it is crucial to facilitate open dialogue, empathy, and critical thinking. 

Episode Resources:

●       WWW.RaceConvo.com - Website to download more episodes of Everyday Conversations on Race and support the show.

●       The Souls of Queer Folk - Book by Joel Davis Brown.

●       Adrienne Marie Brown - Author and thought leader on social justice issues.

●       Chimananda Ngozi Adichie - Nigerian author known for her work on identity and culture.

●       Disability Pride Movement - Movement promoting pride and acceptance for individuals with disabilities.

Support the Show:

If you enjoyed this episode and want to support the show, visit www.RaceConvo.com to make a tax-deductible donation. Your support will help continue the important conversations on race and inclusion.

Click here to DONATE and support our podcast

Connect with the Guests:

●      Patricia Mushim Ikeda - Third-generation Japanese-American Buddhist and mindfulness teacher. Connect with her on LinkedIn.

●     Joel Davis Brown - African-American born and raised in the mid-west of the USA. Organizational development consultant and awareness agent. Connect with him on LinkedIn.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her for your next DEIB  event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

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Previous Episodes

Unmasking the Toxicity of Racism: A Raw Conversation with The Contraband Wagon

Confronting the Lack of Diversity in Nonprofit Leadership

"From Apartheid to Forgiveness" a Conversation on Race

Race, Sentencing, and the Criminal Justice System: A Shocking Inside Perspective A Conversation on Race with 

Loved this episode?  Leave us a review and rating

In this powerful podcast episode, Simma Lieberman interviews three faith leaders from the Faith Trio - Pastor Ben Daniel, Ali Sheikhaslani, and Rabbi David Cooper. Each of these leaders brings a unique perspective and experience to the conversation, making it even more impactful.

The Faith Trio is a group that aims to foster understanding and empathy among different faith communities. They recognize the increase in Islamophobia and antisemitism in today's world and believe that now, more than ever, it is crucial to come together and combat these prejudices.

Throughout the episode, the faith leaders share their personal experiences and perspectives on the Israel-Gaza war and other conflicts. They emphasize the importance of compassion and empathy during these challenging times. Rabbi David Cooper highlights the need to know each other on a personal level, stating, "When you know the other, all of a sudden, you're not dealing with some abstract collectivity, you're actually dealing with real human beings."

Rabbi David talks about his Palestinian and Israeli friends that he has had for years and is concerned for their safety.

Ali Sheikhaslani discusses the dehumanization that occurs during conflicts and the impact it has on both sides. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing the humanity of all individuals involved and treating them with dignity and respect. Ali also mentions the need for equal rights and understanding, stating, "Unless dignity is given to Palestinians... any foreign solution... will not bring peace." Seeing so many Jewish people speak out in support of a ceasefire is inspiring to Ali and others.

Pastor Ben Daniel shares his experiences with right-wing Christians who believe in supporting Israel no matter what. He acknowledges the dangers of Christian Zionism and the underlying anti-Semitism that can be present in this ideology. He emphasizes the importance of making peace and letting go of revenge, stating, "You can't fight your way to peace. You have to make peace."

The speakers also discuss the need for individuals to genuinely feel and understand the pain of both sides involved in a conflict. They argue that it is not enough to simply pay lip service to the suffering of one side. Instead, individuals must truly feel and comprehend the pain to strategically act in a way that supports both sides. This understanding is seen as crucial in bridging the gap of identity and working towards a more inclusive society.

The faith leaders also provide solutions and action steps for listeners to promote empathy and understanding. They encourage education about different faiths and cultures, engaging in meaningful conversations with people from different backgrounds, and actively challenging stereotypes and prejudices.

Overall, this episode highlights the importance of compassion and empathy during times of conflict. It sheds light on the experiences and perspectives of these faith leaders and their commitment to promoting understanding and peace. It serves as a reminder that by knowing and empathizing with one another, we can work towards a more inclusive and compassionate world.

If you want to see a peaceful, lasting solution it’s essential to understand the pain of both Israelis and Palestinians.

Guests Bio

Ben Daniel has served as pastor and head of staff at Montclair Presbyterian Church since March of 2014.

Born in Palo Alto and raised in Mendocino, Ben earned his Bachelor of Arts degree with a major in Religious Studies at Westmont College with an emphasis in urban ministry.  He received his Master of Divinity degree from Princeton Theological Seminary and was ordained in 1993.  Before moving to Oakland, he he served as Pastor/Head of Staff at Foothill Presbyterian Church in San Jose for sixteen years.  Prior to that, he spent four years as Pastor of the  Community Presbyterian Church in Gonzales, CA.

David J. Cooper is a co-founder of Kehilla Community Synagogue and is rabbi emeritus there. He is a long-time progressive activist and community organizer. He has studied and taught on many aspects of Judaism and is also a liturgist.

Ali Sheikholeslami is one of the founders of the Islamic Cultural Center of Northern California (ICCNC), Oakland, CA, and he is currently a member of its Board of Directors. He has been active in the Oakland Faith Trio for many years.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her for your next DEIB  event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

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Website

Previous Episodes

Unmasking the Toxicity of Racism: A Raw Conversation with The Contraband Wagon

Confronting the Lack of Diversity in Nonprofit Leadership

"From Apartheid to Forgiveness" a Conversation on Race

Race, Sentencing, and the Criminal Justice System: A Shocking Inside Perspective A Conversation on Race with 

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

In this episode of "Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People," Simma Lieberman welcomes her guest Will Upland (also known as Contraband). He is the creator of the show on Twitch, The Contraband Wagon. Listen to this enlightening, personal and often humorous discussion of race, racism and disruptive conversations.

Will (aka Contraband) recounts times in his young life when he encountered people who tried to discourage his success, and were angry that he, the only young Black man in his class stood above everyone else for his talents and brilliance.

After feeling frustrated with the discussions on race in mainstream media Will decided to start his own show. Simma and  Will (aka Contraband) discuss their shared mission of disrupting the way people talk about race and how to bring people together across racial lines.

Will shares a powerful story from his childhood that made him conscious of stereotypes and internalized racism. 

At the age of six, he had a conversation with another Black boy who believed that acting "Black" meant being disrespectful, getting bad grades, and being part of a gang. This experience opened his eyes to the impact of racial stereotypes and the struggles that come with them. Listen to this episode to find out what happened when he ran into that same "kid" 25 years later.

Both Simma and Will emphasize the importance of self-esteem and a strong sense of identity in navigating experiences of racism. You'll hear examples from "The Contraband Wagon," about other Black people with different perspectives on race. You'll also hear stories of how several white people  became conscious of race and racism after being in denial.

Throughout the episode, Simma and Will highlight the need for open and honest conversations about race. They discuss the role of education and awareness in reducing the toxicity of our racial environment. They also emphasize the importance of empathy and understanding, using examples from their personal lives that encourage listeners to approach conversations about race with an open heart and an open mind.

To take action and engage in conversations about race, Simma The Inclusionist and  Contraband suggest the following:
Educate yourself: Take the time to learn about the history of racism, systemic oppression, and the experiences of marginalized communities. Read books, listen to podcasts, and engage with diverse perspectives.

Engage in dialogue: Seek out opportunities to have conversations about race with people from different backgrounds. Listen actively, ask questions, and be open to learning from others' experiences.

Challenge your own biases: Reflect on your own beliefs and biases. Be willing to confront and unlearn any prejudices you may hold. Engage in self-reflection and actively work towards being anti-racist.

Join Simma The Inclusionist and Will Upland  ( aka Contraband) on their mission to change the conversation on race and create a more inclusive and understanding society. Tune in to The Contraband Wagon on Twitch and engage in their monthly private racism discussion group and book club. Remember, every conversation counts in the fight against racism.

Guest Bio

Will Upland, also known as Contraband, is a community college professor and the creator of The Contraband Wagon, where he is changing the conversation on race. After years of frustration watching the conversations on race in media without seeing the kind of dialogue he finds valuable, Contraband decided to create his own platform. He has had over 100 live 2-hour conversations on race and continues to have them regularly on his Twitch channel. He also hosts a monthly private racism discussion group, a book club, and live events that inspire discussion on the subject of race. Contraband hopes to increase knowledge on and awareness of race to reduce the toxicity of our racial environment

Contact Info:
Twitch
YouTube
MeetUp
Twitter
Instagram

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her for your next DEIB  event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

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Website

Previous Episodes

Confronting the Lack of Diversity in Nonprofit Leadership

"From Apartheid to Forgiveness" a Conversation on Race

Race, Sentencing, and the Criminal Justice System: A Shocking Inside Perspective A Conversation on Race with Sean Wilson, Organizing Director of Dream.Org

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

In this conversation on race, Simma The Inclusionist talks with Kristen Sharpe, CEO of Non-profit Makeover, and Deedee De La Cruz, Director of Demand Generation for GiveSmart.

Why is there a lack of diversity in leadership roles within nonprofit organizations? Our two guests shed light on the reason that less than 20% of executive positions are held by people of color nonprofits.

Kristen Sharpe and Deedee De La Cruz, acknowledge the historical overrepresentation of white individuals in nonprofit leadership positions. There is an urgent need for greater diversity in these roles, particularly considering that many nonprofits serve people of color and low-income communities. The lack of diversity in leadership can lead to a lack of representation, support, and mentorship for CEOs of color. The episode raises the question of how nonprofits can prioritize diversity within leadership roles and suggests that providing people of color with a seat at the table, opportunities to serve, and a platform for their voices and ideas can help address this issue.

Both Kristen and Deedee share their personal journeys as women of color and how they achieved their high level of success in the non-profit world when neither of them came from business backgrounds. They also share how race and their economic backgrounds influenced the decisions they made to reach their goals.

Both women tell stories of how they dealt with "Imposter Syndrome," and offer solutions for other women, specifically women of color who may be experiencing the same.

They emphasize the importance of adopting a mindset that recognizes an abundance of wealth and opportunity. Kristen Sharpe challenges the prevailing belief in the nonprofit world that resources are scarce and insufficient to support multiple causes and organizations. Using the analogy of restaurants, she highlights the existence of numerous different establishments in every community, catering to different interests and preferences. Similarly, she argues that individuals can support multiple causes and organizations, just as they can donate to both the St. Jude's Foundation and organizations that support children in foster care.

Kristen and Deedee both aim to empower nonprofit leaders of color to raise money on autopilot using technology and social media. By sharing opportunities and fostering conversations within the community, they both believe that everyone can contribute to philanthropic efforts and collectively make a difference. She challenges the notion that access to resources and opportunities is limited, emphasizing that there is ample room for collaboration and support across various causes and organizations.

Deedee and Kristen both discuss the importance of leveraging technology, specifically GiveSmart, to bridge the gap and revolutionize nonprofit operations. She emphasizes that nonprofits unfamiliar with technology may be missing out on valuable opportunities. By partnering with GiveSmart, nonprofits can learn how to effectively utilize technology and maximize its potential.

Kristen utilized technology, including GiveSmart, to raise over a quarter million dollars during the pandemic. She emphasizes that this achievement was accomplished without traditional methods such as ads, events, mailers, or galas. This success demonstrates the power of technology in enabling nonprofits to raise funds on autopilot.

Time Stamps

[00:02:27] Why talking about race is important.
[00:04:24] Nonprofit leadership diversity.
[00:09:32] Lack of diversity in nonprofits.
[00:13:29] Generational self-confidence.
[00:16:34] Community building and peer-to-peer fundraising.
[00:21:30] Personal background and scholarship impact.
[00:24:48] Community Brands and GiveSmart.
[00:30:13] Nonprofit and technology partnership.
[00:32:39] Bridging the gap in philanthropy.
[00:36:19] Nonprofit diversity in leadership.
[00:40:01] Lack of diversity in philanthropy.
[00:44:11] Education as a privilege.
[00:49:32] Non-traditional routes to success.
[00:54:46] What's on your playlist?
[00:57:54] Overcoming imposter syndrome.
[01:00:20] Donate button and tax deductible donation.

Guest Bio

Kristen Faith Sharpe is a powerhouse entrepreneur, an American Red Cross humanitarian Award Winner, philanthropist, and renowned domestic violence expert. For more than a decade, millions have been inspired by her strength, resilience, and groundbreaking initiatives to create social change online.  This California native is the founder and visionary of multiple reputable brands and nonprofits that include Break the Silence Against Domestic Violence, The Nonprofit Makeover, and Boss Babe Networking.

Deedee De La Cruz is the Senior Manager of Demand Generation at GiveSmart, the leading provider of cloud-based software to donor-driven organizations like nonprofits, charities, schools and foundations. Instagram: @givesmart_us 

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.” 

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Tiktok

Website

Previous Episodes

"From Apartheid to Forgiveness" a Conversation on Race

Race, Sentencing, and the Criminal Justice System: A Shocking Inside Perspective A Conversation on Race with Sean Wilson, Organizing Director of Dream.Org

Everyday Conversation on Race with Rosalyn Taylor O’Neale (DEI OG for 47 years)

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

If you were a Black man imprisoned and tortured for fighting against the brutality of apartheid in South Africa, could you forgive your oppressors? Siya Twani did just that. This is a don’t miss episode. We all need to hear his story. It is especially relevant today with the slaughter of over 1,000 Israelis and the continued bombing and killing of over 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza. 

In this episode, Simma, the Inclusionist, welcomes guest Siya Twani, who grew up under South African apartheid and became a freedom fighter with Nelson Mandela. Siya shares his experiences of imprisonment and torture, which ultimately led him to speak on reconciliation, forgiveness, and mental toughness. The conversation explores the importance of discussing race within the context of apartheid and the impact of racial trauma on Black children. Tune in to gain insights from Siya's powerful story and his perspective on race.

 Siya's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the power of forgiveness. He emphasizes the importance of addressing racial trauma and healing the wounds caused by racism. Siya challenges the notion that talking about race is unnecessary, reminding us that those who experience racism daily are tired of living with it.

The conversation delves into the history of apartheid in South Africa, shedding light on the extreme racial discrimination and inhumane treatment endured by black, Asian, and colored people. Siya highlights the stark contrast between the privileged lives of white South Africans and the poverty and oppression faced by the majority.

Guest Bio

Siya Twani is a South African Global Citizen with a passion to add value to people. A Passionate Educator, Mr Motivator and Inspirational Speaker.

Siya Twani grew up in Cape Town in the 60s and 70s and experienced first-hand the pain of racism and discrimination. He was committed to the struggle and spent time in prison aged 17 for this commitment.

He now lives in England and visits schools/ colleges/Universities and companies as a Motivational and Inspirational speaker to talk about his own experiences and lead workshops on a variety of themes

“Siya, You are truly a wonderful person who inspired us all and brought us all closer to a better understanding of humanity. You have such a remarkable and powerful story to share with the world which is not one of anger nor bitterness but one of love and a desire to bring people together… you have touched all of our lives.” Teacher (Tendring Primary)

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Tiktok

Website

Previous Episodes

Race, Sentencing, and the Criminal Justice System: A Shocking Inside Perspective A Conversation on Race with Sean Wilson, Organizing Director of Dream.Org

Everyday Conversation on Race with Rosalyn Taylor O’Neale (DEI OG for 47 years)

Breaking the Chains: Fighting Caste Oppression with Thenmozhi Soundararajan

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

In this episode, Simma The Inclusionist, is joined by Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team. With 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings insight into a system that he believes is broken and in need of reform. They discuss the importance of talking about race, especially in a society where some are trying to criminalize almost everything. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the role of race in America's history.

Time Stamps

[00:02:13] Sweeping race conversations under the rug
[00:06:03] Internal transformation in prison
[00:09:22] Racial disparities in sentencing
[00:14:17] Disparities in drug sentencing
[00:19:22] Sentencing and racial identity
[00:27:35] Systemic racism and incarceration
[00:29:14] Challenging the criminal legal system
[00:35:27] Systemic racism in criminal justice
[00:43:12] Black codes in the criminal legal system
[00:45:10] Racism in the criminal justice system
[00:49:00] Country music and rap fusion
[00:53:42] Show notes available for download

Simma interviews Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, who shares his deeply personal experience with the criminal justice system and the impact of systemic racism. Sean, who was born and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, opens up about his troubled youth, including getting involved in criminal activities such as selling drugs and committing armed robbery.

At the age of 17, Sean was arrested and sentenced to 50 years in prison for his crimes. He reflects on the harshness of his sentence, questioning how a judge could sentence a young boy to the same amount of time he had lived on this earth. Sean highlights the racial disparities within the criminal justice system, emphasizing that Black and Brown individuals are often given much harsher sentences compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses.

He discusses the historical roots of systemic racism in the criminal justice system, tracing  back to the 13th Amendment and the implementation of Black codes, which restricted the freedom of African Americans and perpetuated a form of slavery through convict leasing. Sean emphasizes that these discriminatory practices continue to target Black and Brown people, leading to disproportionate rates of incarceration.

Sean also addresses the issue of racial bias in sentencing, where black individuals are more likely to receive longer sentences compared to white individuals for the same offenses. He highlights the need for judges and prosecutors to view individuals before them as human beings deserving of grace, understanding, and the opportunity for redemption.

As the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, Sean is dedicated to closing prison doors and opening doors of opportunity. The organization works in three issue areas: climate justice, tech equity for Black and Brown people, and criminal justice reform. Sean's role involves training and building up leaders to advocate for transformational legislation that will reduce mass incarceration.

In terms of recommended resources, Sean suggests reading "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander, which provides a comprehensive analysis of the racial disparities within the criminal justice system. He also recommends "Better Not Bitter" by Yusuf Salaam, one of the Central Park Five, who shares his personal journey of transformation and resilience after being wrongfully convicted.

For those interested in gaining a deeper understanding of the criminal justice system, Sean suggests watching the HBO documentary "Growing Up Milwaukee," which follows the lives of young individuals assigned mentors, including Sean, who share their stories to deter them from a life of crime. He also recommends the documentary "13th," which explores the history and impact of mass incarceration in America.

To connect with Sean and learn more about Dream.org's work, you can reach out to him via email at seanwilson@dream.org or follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn (Sean Wilson) and Facebook. You can also visit the Dream.org website and follow the organization on Instagram and Facebook for updates and information on their initiatives.

This episode sheds light on Sean Wilson's personal experience with race and the criminal justice system and highlights the urgent need for systemic change to address racial disparities and promote justice and equality for all.

Key Takeaways:

1. Systemic racism is deeply rooted in the criminal justice system, leading to racial disparities in sentencing and treatment.

2. Black individuals are often subjected to harsher sentences and less leniency compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses.

3. The criminal justice system perpetuates harm and fails to provide opportunities for redemption and rehabilitation.

4. Advocacy and reform efforts are crucial to address the systemic racism within the criminal justice system.

5. Open and honest conversations about race are necessary to bring about meaningful change and find common ground for solutions.

To learn more about Sean Wilson and his work, visit the Dream.org website and follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn and Facebook. Additional resources mentioned include the book "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander and the documentaries "Growing Up Milwaukee" and "13th."

Guest Bio

Sean is the Organizing Director at Dream Corps. As someone with 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings an advantage and insight into a system he believes to be broken and in need of reform. Before joining the Dream Corps JUSTICE team, Sean was the ACLU of Wisconsin’s Smart Justice Campaign Manager, where he managed the campaign to reform probation and parole. In addition, he also serves as a commissioner on the Governor’s Juvenile Justice Commission (GJJC), a State Advisory Group (SAG) that advises the DOJ on its juvenile justice programs and funding decisions and serves as an independent forum to discuss juvenile justice policy issues.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

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Previous Episodes

Everyday Conversation on Race with Rosalyn Taylor O’Neale (DEI OG for 47 years)

Breaking the Chains: Fighting Caste Oppression with Thenmozhi Soundararajan

Breaking Barriers: John Blake on Racial Reconciliation

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In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, I interview Rosalyn Taylor O'Neill, a highly regarded diversity and inclusion thought leader. Rosalyn shares her experiences as the former Chief Diversity Officer at Campbell's Soup Company and Executive VP of Diversity Initiatives for MTV Network. She has received numerous accolades and awards for her work, including being named one of the top 100 most influential Blacks in corporate America and one of the top executives in diversity, and one of most influential LGBTQ people that year. With 47 years of experience, and never backing down, no matter who challenged her, Rosalyn has a lot to say and share. You want to hear this conversation on race.

Time stamps:

[00:02:41] Fearlessness and Belonging.

[00:04:25] Diversity in organizations.

[00:10:52] Learning about different cultures.

[00:15:08] Learning through discomfort.

[00:16:31] Loudness and race awareness.

[00:22:18] Overcoming stereotypes and assumptions.

[00:25:06] Being black in America.

[00:29:58] Asian hate and race discussion.

[00:34:07] Blacks and Jews misunderstanding.

[00:37:32] Asking questions and seeking understanding.

[00:41:25] Slavery and acquired skills.

[00:46:23] Living in a diverse world.

[00:49:08] Empathy and creating understanding.

[00:54:46] Empathy and taking action.

[00:57:55] What are you listening to these days?

[01:02:22] TV shows and cultural diversity.

[01:04:36] Ways to relax and distress.

Guest Bio

Rosalyn Taylor O'Neale is a highly regarded diversity and inclusion thought leader, celebrated for her transformative impact on organizations worldwide. With extensive experience, including her roles as Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer at Campbell Soup Company, and Executive Vice President of Diversity Initiatives for MTV Network, Rosalyn has facilitated courageous conversations on biases, race, culture, gender, sexual orientation, privilege, and gender identity. Her work has earned her numerous accolades, such as being named one of the Top 100 Most Influential Blacks in Corporate America, Top Executives in Diversity, 100 Top Executives in America, and 100 Most Influential LGBT People of the Year.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Tiktok

Website

Previous Episodes

Breaking the Chains: Fighting Caste Oppression with Thenmozhi Soundararajan

Breaking Barriers: John Blake on Racial Reconciliation

Why We Must Bridge Divides: A Conversation on Inclusive Leadership with Sally Helgesen & Mercedes Martin

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

In this conversation on Race, Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, and Chad Lassiter, the executive director of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Council, engage in a deep personal conversation about self-reflection and awareness of privileges, stereotypes, and behaviors. Chad shares his own daily process to engage in self-reflection on race, and his role in bringing people to the common table to challenge stereotypes that perpetuate inequality and discrimination.

With school boards and politicians, not only eliminating African-American history and any discussion of racial discrimination under the guise of making white children feel uncomfortable, we need to find ways to flip the script and empower all children, including white children, to be agents of change. While acknowledging concerns about discomfort, Chad Lassiter says that we can help children see that they have the power to contribute to a more just and equal society. By engaging in these conversations, children can recognize each other's humanity and understand their role in promoting peace and justice. 

The key moments in this episode are:

[02:26] Conversations around racism and division.

[06:37] First experience with racism.

[09:12] Police brutality and activism.

[12:06] Generational trauma and racial identity.

[17:04] Dismantling systemic and structural racism.

[21:11] Building solidarity through activism.

[26:49] Wealth and taking care of the poor.

[28:00] Employment discrimination based on appearance.

[33:19] The importance of conversation.

[36:13] The trigger for white rage.

[40:03] Talking about race in schools.

[45:55] The Woman King and toxic masculinity.

[48:37] Social change agents and justice warriors.

Chad references the work of Paul Kivel, who emphasizes the necessity of difficult conversations about racism to uproot it. 

This episode of Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People needs to be heard by anyone who wants to empower people of all ages to eliminate racism and other forms of inequality.

With so much foolishness about not even mentioning cultural/racial differences and pretending everyone is the same while erasing non-white people, it’s essential that we share and talk about our identities, and culture. This is how we can find common ground and learn and grow together. Chad says these conversations will help us all find a balance between preserving individuality and being open to connecting with people from diverse backgrounds. No one is just one identity, and it would be very boring to pretend otherwise.

We talk about Chad’s experience of growing up in an all-black community and how his perspective initially remained narrow due to his limited exposure. However, from interacting with individuals from different cultures and backgrounds, his viewpoint expanded, and he discovered shared experiences. This highlights the idea that engaging with diverse perspectives broadens understanding and fosters connections.

Simma and Chad talk about the concept of cultural pride reinforcement, particularly within the context of the Black Lives Matter movement. Cultural pride does not entail valuing one culture over another but rather celebrating and affirming the importance of one's own culture while also respecting and acknowledging the significance of other cultures. This supports the notion that maintaining one's identity and culture does not necessitate rejecting or disregarding others.

Listen in as we touch on the significance of having conversations about race, racism, and other issues that some may see as divisive. 

While recognizing the importance of addressing these topics, we also need to incorporate discussions around peace, justice, truth, love, and kindness. That's how a more inclusive and compassionate society can be created. Without that, we'll be even more divided racially and in every other way

Overall, the episode underscores the importance of maintaining one's identity and culture while also seeking common ground with others. It highlights the value of expanding perspectives, celebrating cultural pride, and engaging in conversations that foster understanding, peace, and justice.

Guest Bio

Chad Dion Lassiter is a national expert in the field of American Race Relations. Mr. Lassiter has worked on race, peace, and poverty-related issues in the United States of America, Africa, Canada, Haiti, Israel, and Norway, and is called upon frequently by media outlets to provide commentary on race relations and potential solutions.

He is the current executive director of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission, where he has legislatively delegated authority to investigate complaints filed alleging unlawful discrimination in the areas of employment, housing and commercial property, education and/or  public accommodations. During his capacity in this position, he has developed and launched a ‘No Hate in Our State Townhall’ to address the surge of White nationalism in Pennsylvania, a ‘Social Justice Lecture Series’ providing an outlet for the communities in the state to discuss imperative issues and serves as a Racial Reduction Response team for those communities impacted by hatred. He oversees a staff of 84 with three regional offices that comprise the 67 counties in Pennsylvania and manages an annual budget of $12 million. He has also developed programs under his appointment, such as a ‘Global Social Justice Initiative’, ‘Black and Jewish Beloved Community Dialogue’, and the ‘College Race Dialogue Initiative.’

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Tiktok

Website

Previous Episodes

Breaking the Chains: Fighting Caste Oppression with Thenmozhi Soundararajan

Breaking Barriers: John Blake on Racial Reconciliation

Why We Must Bridge Divides: A Conversation on Inclusive Leadership with Sally Helgesen & Mercedes Martin

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating