Heads I Win, Tails You Lose: Discussing State/Church Separation with Professor Corbin

It’s that wonderful time of year when Alison guides Rebecca and Liz through the upcoming legislative sessions in states across the country. We discuss upsetting trends in state legislation and bills we’re monitoring that affect the separation of church and state and threaten true religious liberty for everyone.

Background and Resources

• Previous episode about the legislative process

• Previous episode about Texas

• 2024 State of the Secular States report

• American Atheists State Legislation Tracker 

• What you can do

• FFRF and American Atheists’ Action Alerts

• Equality Florida

• ACLU State Affiliates 

• Reproductive Freedom For All

Bills Discussed

• Religion in schools

• School chaplain bills

• Texas

• Florida

• Indiana

• Nebraska

• Alabama

• Oklahoma HB 2962: Would require the display of the Ten Commandments in classrooms

• Utah HB 269: Would allow teachers to display the Ten Commandments in classrooms

• Arizona SB 1151: Would allow teachers to display the Ten Commandments in classrooms

• West Virginia SB 280: Would allow teachers to each intelligent design as a theory of how the universe came to exist

• Trans bills

• The Guardian - “Missouri is ground zero for the firehose of anti-trans legislation”

• Missouri HB1674: Would make it discrimination for a business to allow trans employees to access appropriate bathrooms

• Utah HB 257: Would make using a bathroom that does not align with one’s sex assigned at birth a criminal trespass offense

• Healthcare

• Missouri HB 1519: Prohibits discrimination against health care professionals who refuse to assist in trans healthcare

• Oklahoma SB 1729: Would recognize abortion as homicide

• Idaho HJR001: Would remove the no aid clause from the Idaho constitution

Cases Discussed

•  Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971)

• Kennedy v. Bremerton School District (2022)

• Stone v. Graham (1980)

• Van Orden v. Perry (2005)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Liz and Rebecca answer your burning questions on religious liberty issues and more! This episode, we reach into the mailbag and take on topics from YOU, our loyal listeners.

Background

• FFRF’s Website

• American Atheists’ Website

• Alliance for Justice: Statement of Principles: The Biden Administration Must Prioritize Judges

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Alison, Liz, and Rebecca interview Anaya Gayle—lawyer, ex-Mormon, and former BYU assistant dean. They discuss the power and influence the church wields and life for LGBTQ+ students at BYU, as Anaya shares her experience inside the insular LDS community.  

Background

• More about Anaya Gayle

• Anaya's Bio

• Interview with the Human Stories podcast

• News story - “Former BYU assistant dean speaks out against Honor Code”

• BYU Honor Code controversy

• BYU Honor Code

• "The Divine Institution of Marriage": An Overview of LDS Involvement in the Proposition 8 Campaign

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Alison, Liz, and Rebecca are joined by Professor Marci Hamilton, legal icon and leading expert on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) and extreme religious liberty. Professor Hamilton explains the origin story of RFRA, how it has led us to the emerging theocracy we face, and what Americans can do to reclaim true religious liberty before it’s too late. 

Submit a question for the holiday mailbag episode here!

Background

• Professor Marci Hamilton’s bio

• CHILD USA, Prof. Hamilton's think tank

• FFRF’s FAQ on RFRA 

• Congressional Research Service primer on RFRA

Cases

• City of Boerne v. Flores (1997)

• Employment Division v. Smith (1990)

• Tanzin v. Tanvir (2020) 

• FFRF’s amicus brief, written by Marci Hamilton

• American Atheists and Center For Inquiry’s amicus brief

• 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis (2023)

• U.S. Pastor Council (Braidwood Management) v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (2023)

• Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC (2012)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Alison, Liz, and Rebecca go back to school! They discuss the latest wild and crazy state/church violations in public schools reported to their organizations, the postscript on the Coach Kennedy case, and the alarming move by Oklahoma to create the first religious public school.

Background

• Pray to Play report

• Prayer Walks and Public Schools report

• We Dissent Episode 5 – You, Coach Kennedy, are no Tim Tebow

Complaints Discussed

• Auburn University football team baptism

• Baptism in Charlotte County Public Schools, FL 

• “Jesus and Germs are Everywhere” sign in Victor Valley Union High School District, CA

• Prayer walk in Marion County Public Schools, FL

Cases

• Kennedy v. Bremerton School District (2022)

• Liz Cavell, FFRF - “Praying coach’s actions do not alter the Constitution”

• Hiram Sasser, First Liberty - “School district that fired praying coach Joe Kennedy under investigation, again”

• Stone v. Graham (1980)

• Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017)

• Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020)

• St. Isidore Charter School Lawsuit - OKPLAC v. Statewide Virtual Charter School Board (2023)

• Attorney General O'Connor’s December 2022 letter

• FFRF’s January 2023 memo

• Attorney General Drummond’s February 2023 letter

• Engel v. Vitale (1962)

Resources

• American Atheists Report a Violation

• FFRF Report a Violation

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Alison, Liz, and Rebecca take a deep dive into Texas for a case study in theocratic government. They discuss recent Christian nationalist legislation advancing in the state, the takeover of state institutions by conservative Christian legal groups, and the many state/church battles their organizations have fought in Texas. 

Background

• Texas Monthly - “How a Right-wing Law Firm Shaped the Judge Who Will Rule on the Abortion Pill”

• The Washington Post - “Texas legislature passes bill allowing chaplains in public schools”

• Religion News Service - “More than 100 chaplains urge Texans not to hire school chaplains”

• FFRF, Americans United, and the ACLU/ACLU of Texas letter to Texas school districts

• FFRF - “Thou shalt honor our secular public schools, Texas” 

• Texas Tribune - “Key supporter of Texas school chaplain bill has pushed for evangelism in schools”

Resources

• FFRF Action Alert sign-up

• FFRF report a violation

• American Atheists report a violation

• American Atheists Action Alerts sign-up 

• School Chaplain Law Advocacy Toolkit

• Interfaith Alliance “Say No to Chaplains in Public Schools” campaign page

Bills Discussed

• HB 4949/SB 1396 and SB 19: Would allow a period of prayer and reading of the Bible or other religious text in public schools

• SB 17: Would have created the right for a public school employee to engage in religious speech or prayer while on duty

• SB 1515: Would require the display of the Ten Commandments in public schools

• SB 763: Would allow school districts to employ chaplains to perform the duties of school counselors

Cases

• American Atheist’s Metroplex Atheists lawsuit

• FFRF’s Texas Bill of Rights display lawsuit

• FFRF’s praying judge lawsuit

• Stone v. Graham (1980)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Alison, Liz, and Rebecca discuss a better vision for religious liberty with Liz Reiner Platt, director of the Law, Rights, and Religion Project, a law and policy think tank based at Columbia Law School. They talk about using religious exemptions to promote progressive social causes and issues, including the legal fight for a right to abortion based on freedom of conscience.

Background

• Liz Reiner Platt bio

• Law, Rights, and Religion Project

• We Dissent episode about 303 Creative

Resources

• All Faiths and None: A Guide to Protecting Religious Liberty for Everyone

• A Religious Right to Abortion: Legal History and Analysis

• Parading the Horribles: The Risk of Expanding Religious Exemptions

Amicus Briefs

• LRRP - Dousa v. U.S. Department of Homeland Security

• LRRP “ No More Deaths” case - United States vs. Warren

• American Atheists - Tanzin v. Tanvir

• LRRP - United States v. Safehouse 

• LRRP and FFRF - ​​Jane Doe v. AG of Indiana Amicus Brief 

• LRRP - 303 Creative v. Elenis

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

The Supreme Court continues to mess up civil rights for everyone. In this episode Rebecca and Liz discuss the two opinions handed down by the Supreme Court at the end of June, Groff v. DeJoy and 303 Creative v. Elenis. They recap the case, summarize the rulings, and discuss implications of the decisions.

Background

• Groff v. DeJoy

• SCOTUS decision

• SCOTUSBlog - “Justices rule in favor of evangelical Christian postal worker”

• Vox - “The other big decision handed down by the Supreme Court today, explained”

• AA Groff v. DeJoy press release

• FFRF Groff v. DeJoy press release

• 303 Creative v. Elenis

• SCOTUS Decision 

• SCOTUSBlog - “Supreme Court rules website designer can decline to create same-sex wedding websites”

• Vox - “Neil Gorsuch has a problem with telling the truth”

• FFRF 303 Creative press release

• AA 303 Creative press release

Cases

• Trans World Airlines, Inc. v. Hardison (1977)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Alison, Rebecca, and Liz discuss the pending Post Office case—Groff v. DeJoy—another high-stakes case in which the Supreme Court considers how much hardship a business must bear to accommodate the religious practices of employees. They explain how the case threatens to disrupt decades of case law interpreting Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and what the oral arguments may have signaled about the potential outcome. 

Background

• SCOTUS Blog Page

• Oral arguments transcript

• Freedom From Religion Foundation’s amicus brief

• Center for Inquiry and American Atheists’ amicus brief

• SCOTUS Blog - “Justices look for common ground in postal worker’s religious liberty case”

• Vox - “The Supreme Court is unlikely to put the Christian Right in charge of your workplace — at least not yet”

• Time - “The Post Office Made a Christian Employee Work on Sundays. Now He's at the Supreme Court”

• New York Times - “Supreme Court Weighs Clash of Postal Worker’s Sabbath and Sunday Deliveries”

Cases

• Trans World Airlines, Inc. v. Hardison (1977)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.

Rebecca, Liz, and Alison discuss the state of state/church separation with Professor Caroline Corbin, constitutional law professor at the University of Miami. They review the history of Establishment Clause jurisprudence, remind listeners about what the Supreme Court did to the religion clauses in 2022, and discuss where we stand now in regards to rights under the First Amendment. TLDR: If you’re a Christian, rest assured it’s a “Heads I Win, Tails You Lose” court.

Background

• Professor Caroline Corbin’s bio 

• The Remains of the Establishment Clause (Lupu & Tuttle, updated 2023)

• James Madison’s Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments

• Previous We Dissent episodes on Carson v. Makin

• The Sleeper Case: Carson v. Makin

• Bonus Episode! Carson v. Makin Update

• American Atheists Kennedy v. Bremerton amicus brief

Cases

• Firewalker-Fields v. Lee (2023)

• Town of Greece v. Galloway (2014)

• Sambrano v. United Airlines (2022)

• County of Allegheny v. American Civil Liberties Union (1989)

• The American Legion v. American Humanist Association (2019)

• Stone v. Graham (1980)

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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.