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    How to achieve hypergrowth in your business and career | Carilu Dietrich (Atlassian, Miro, Segment, 1Password)

    enApril 30, 2023

    Podcast Summary

    • Achieving Hypergrowth: Strategies for Building an Amazing Product and Hiring 2X and 3X Leaders while Riding the LightningTo achieve hypergrowth, companies must focus on building an amazing product and hiring experienced leaders, while constantly adapting to rapid growth. Building strong relationships and proving the ROI of marketing and product initiatives is also key to success.

      To achieve hypergrowth, companies must have organic, inbound, and viral word of mouth. This means focusing on building an amazing product that people love to use, along with hiring 2X and 3X leaders who have seen the next stage of growth. Hypergrowth companies also need to be constantly adapting and riding the lightning, as they go through stages of growth that would take other companies years. Having a bundling strategy can also help unlock new channels of growth. However, it's important to note that CEOs often don't trust CMOs and CPOs, and many are fired. To overcome this, CMOs and CPOs should focus on building strong relationships with their counterparts and proving the ROI of their initiatives.

    • The Key Traits and Skills Needed to Become a Successful ExecutiveBuilding a successful career and reaching the C-suite requires personal qualities such as self-discipline and a strategic mindset, along with a strong understanding of the company's underlying finances and the ability to communicate in CEO language.

      To build a successful career, individuals must make trade-offs and sacrifices, learn and work harder than others, take on additional responsibilities, and approach problem-solving with a strategic mindset. These are the personal qualities that help individuals reach the C-suite level. Along with personal qualities, gaining a strong understanding of the business's underlying finances and how their responsibilities tie into the company's revenues and profits is vital. CEOs and boards recognize individuals who can think in financial terms and talk to them in CEO language. These traits and skills, along with self-discipline and insight, are the keys to success in building a promising career and becoming a successful executive.

    • Understanding Company Dynamics and Choosing the Right Fit for Your CareerBuilding strong relationships within a company and evaluating its momentum can accelerate career growth. Touring different departments can broaden experience and understanding of the larger system.

      To advance in your career, it's important to understand how the system works together and build strong relationships within your company. Working for a company with the right momentum can also accelerate your career. Early in your career, it's advantageous to work for big name, high momentum companies. However, later in your career, evaluating a company's momentum through their profitability, quality of investors, and recent rounds can help you choose the right company to work for. Additionally, taking tours of duty between different departments can provide valuable experience and increase your understanding of how the whole system works together.

    • Metrics and Mindset for Evaluating Businesses and Job HuntingImportant metrics for evaluating a business include Net Promoter Score, net dollar retention, growth rate, burn rate, market position, and employee satisfaction. When job hunting, endurance and grit are key, and it's important to chase waves and keep up with industry trends.

      When evaluating a business, important metrics include Net Promoter Score, net dollar retention, growth rate, burn rate, market position, and employee satisfaction. A strong healthy business has a high net dollar retention and growth rate, and is number one in their market. When job hunting, endurance and grit are key to success, and it's important to not settle for a job or company that doesn't align with one's goals. Each job and logo prepares you for the next, and it's crucial to chase waves and keep up with industry trends. During tough economic times, it's important to focus on what can be controlled and avoid wasting energy on worrying.

    • Choosing the Right Industry and Marketing Strategy for Career GrowthIn recession, grab opportunities to learn new skills. A good product quality and sustained strategic advertising, even with a small budget, can create brand awareness. Grow your skills and network for career advancement.

      Carefully selecting your industry and company can propel your career forward. In economic downturns, take advantage of open projects and opportunities to learn new skills. Quality of product is more important than expensive advertising campaigns. Sustained and strategic advertising, even on a smaller budget, can be effective in creating brand awareness. The most important things for career growth are working your network, sticking with it, and continually growing your skills.

    • The Recipe for Achieving HypergrowthTo achieve hypergrowth, companies must focus on creating an innovative product that people love to use, with an organic inbound that creates word of mouth. Successful ads must highlight customers and have a twist of humor, personality, or truth.

      The success of a product lies in its experience, with advertising only amplifying it. The most successful ads are those with a twist of humor, personality, or truth that stick in the brain. Companies going through hypergrowth have organic, inbound, and viral word of mouth, which can only be achieved with an amazing product that people love to use. This is evident in the success of companies like HipChat, Slack, and 1Password. To achieve hypergrowth, products must have some viral activity, and companies must focus on highlighting their customers in their ads. Successful companies in hypergrowth focus on ensuring that their product is innovative, has a viral element, and has an organic inbound that creates word of mouth.

    • Strategies for Sustainable Growth in Hypergrowth CompaniesTo sustain hypergrowth, prioritize product differentiation, customer obsession, and consistency in incremental improvements. Paid search and SEO are important, but word-of-mouth is accelerated by these core principles.

      Hypergrowth companies often go through stages of growth that would take other companies five to 10 years, and require hiring 2X and 3X leaders who have seen the next stage of growth. However, hiring ahead or hiring advisors can be costly. Founders need to double down on having a product that's differentiated and does something that their customers really love, while being consistent, customer-obsessed, and focused on incremental improvements across all parts of the business. While virality and hypergrowth are not magic bullets, paid search marketing and SEO continue to be important for growth. To accelerate word-of-mouth, companies should focus on product differentiation, customer obsession, and consistency in the incremental improvements of their business.

    • Effectively Create a Network of Thought LeadersTo empower your company, ensure you hire the right people, have a strong content strategy, and build your own community. Pay attention to your customers and wait until a product is successful before hiring salespeople. Stay true to your vision.

      Creating a network of thought leaders empowers people in your company, enables word of mouth and drives growth. It involves hiring the right people, having a strong content strategy, and building your own community. Companies must watch their customers closely and understand their daily struggles to build a product that is loved and used. According to Atlassian's example of product-led growth, it's important to wait before hiring salespeople until the product has achieved a certain level of success. Companies must stay true to their vision and not be swayed by external forces.

    • Atlassian's Success Story: How Investing in Product and Engineering Helped Their GrowthInvesting more in R&D can lead to a product that sells itself. Engage sales teams only when customers are likely to buy. Get closer to customers, read signals, and pivot accordingly for product-led growth success. Context, customization, or assistance may require expensive sales teams.

      Atlassian's success story showcased how investing more in product and engineering and a smaller, more efficient sales organization helped their growth. They spent two to three times more on R&D than other companies they benchmarked against, which enabled them to make a product that sold itself. They sold only to existing customers or focused on aiding renewal instead of expensive net-new prospecting. Today, the trend is towards account-based marketing and intent-based signals, engaging salespeople only when customers are likely to buy. Founders should get closer to their customers, read signals and pivot accordingly, as product-led growth depends heavily on the buying market and product itself. Businesses with a short time-to-value can go for a product-led growth motion, while companies that require context, customization or assistance may need to rely on expensive sales teams to cover product issues until they are fixed.

    • A company-wide approach to achieving growth through product-led or sales-assisted growth.Companies must have a clear strategy and involve all departments in the decision to move upmarket. Avoid hiring too quickly in sales and inside sales and instead consider a hybrid approach to extend product-led growth.

      To achieve growth, companies must have a cross-company strategy that focuses on the big growth levers like product-led growth or sales-assisted growth. Moving upmarket requires a company-wide decision, with each department having a role to play, including marketing, product, customer research, and sales. However, it is essential not to hire too quickly in sales and inside sales, as it may become a huge cost and drain on the business if the product does not have the expected resonance. The hybrid approach of turning sales development reps into sales engineers and researchers can help extend product-led growth, especially for less intuitive products. Companies need to embrace a company-wide approach and direction to achieve their growth goals.

    • Overcoming challenges as a Marketing and Product Leader in StartupsTo build trust with the CEO, focus on revenue and key metrics, communicate in the language of the CEO, and think strategically about markets. CEOs should foster a supportive culture for leaders to build successful strategies.

      Marketing and product leaders in startups often face challenges building trust with the CEO, who may not have a background in their area of expertise. To overcome this, it's important for these leaders to focus on revenue, understand key metrics and growth levers, and be able to communicate in the language of the CEO and board. They also need to be strategic about their markets, and think ahead to identify new opportunities for growth. However, both the Chief Product Officer and Chief Marketing Officer roles are challenging, difficult to measure, and often get swept up when a startup is underperforming. It's important for CEOs to foster a culture of support and collaboration to give these leaders the space to build successful strategies.

    • Strategies for Scaling a Company: Finding Product-Market Fit and Developing a Diversified Financial Model.To scale a company, focus on finding product-market fit and creating a diversified financial model. Bundling may not always be the best strategy, and it's important to understand the competition's philosophies. Leadership, excellence, trust, and learning from successful industry leaders are keys to success.

      The key to scaling a company is finding product-market fit and creating a diversified financial model by selling new products into your customer base. However, bundling may not be an effective growth strategy for product-led companies, as it can slow down the growth motion. When competing against larger companies, like Microsoft, it's crucial to understand their philosophies of 'best of breed' or 'all in one' and develop a strategy accordingly. At different stages of the company's growth, certain strategies may work better than others. Overall, success requires a high bar of excellence, trust, endurance, and learning from successful leaders in the industry, such as those who have been with a company from its small beginnings to its current success.

    • Bundling as a Strategy for Competing with All-In-One CompetitorsIn a tough market, bundling can be effective, but it's important to focus on a specific pain point and offer a product worth the extra cost. Use data-driven insights and test different strategies, and in negotiations, seek win-win solutions.

      In a tough environment, bundling can be an effective strategy to compete with all-in-one competitors. However, it is important to stay focused on one specific pain point and offer a product that is so much better than the competition that it is worth the extra cost. The evaluation of multiple products for purchase is not a fast and easy online self-service buy, and can lead to fewer conversions. Data-led insights are key to product-led growth, and testing different strategies is necessary for success. Recommended books include Tao Te Ching for life philosophy and Never Split the Difference for negotiation tactics. In negotiations, it is important to deeply understand the other person's perspective and find win-win solutions.

    • Lessons on Gratitude, Leadership Skills, and Product Ideation from Carilu DietrichAppreciate your life, test leadership and compassion through interview questions, utilize tools like 1Password, Miro, and Productboard, and start ideation with a press release.

      Carilu Dietrich's favorite recent movie, Everything Everywhere All at Once, has taught her the importance of gratitude and appreciating one's own life. She also shares her favorite interview question, which asks how many people a candidate has fired and their experience with it. This question gives insight into a candidate's leadership skills and compassion. Carilu also shares her favorite products, including 1Password, Miro, and Productboard. On the product side, she recommends starting with writing a press release at the beginning of product ideation, a concept taken from Amazon.

    • The Importance of Having a Marketable Theme in Product MarketingStart with the end in mind by creating a press release that resonates with the targeted audience. Successful meditation involves making time to be present and breathe, and guided meditations can help quiet the mind. Follow Carilu for marketing and AI guidance.

      One of the biggest challenges in product marketing is when the product team creates a bunch of features without a clear marketable theme. To avoid this, start with the end in mind and create a press release that resonates with the targeted audience. Meditation can be a powerful tool for achieving mindfulness and being present in life. The key to successful meditation is there's no right or wrong way of doing it; it's simply about making time to be present and breathe. Guided meditations can be helpful to quiet the mind. Follow Carilu on LinkedIn or her blog, carilu.com, to learn more about her experience in marketing and AI. She is also available to help junior marketing executives or first-time founders navigate the next stage of growth for AI companies.

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    • How intuition and product taste drive Dylan’s decision-making

    • The challenge of keeping things simple

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config

    Where to find Dylan Field:

    • X: https://x.com/zoink?lang=en

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Introduction

    (01:11) Welcoming Dylan Field

    (02:36) Highlights and surprises from Config

    (06:58) The philosophy of design

    (08:01) Raccoon feet and muffin hands

    (09:57) Building and refining intuition and product taste

    (12:50) How to influence leadership

    (16:14) The role of product managers

    (21:12) The future of product management

    (22:20) The importance of simplicity in design

    (26:10) The long road to Figma’s launch

    (27:44) Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs

    (29:07) Knowing when it’s time to ship

    (30:39) Early user acquisition strategies

    (35:50) Spotting trends and future innovations

    (39:20) Reflections on leadership and growth

    (43:16) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Mihika Kapoor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/

    • Rick Rubin on the Creative Act—60 Minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1teB5bN-w

    • Figma pages: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038511293-Create-and-manage-pages

    • Leading through uncertainty: A design-led company—Brian Chesky (Config 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfijg7s76o

    • An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom

    • Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building

    • Nadia Singer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiasinger/

    • Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/

    • FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

    • Tim Van Damme on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-van-damme-maxvoltar/

    • Coda: https://coda.io/

    • Shishir Mehrotra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/

    • Websim: https://websim.ai/

    • eToys.com commercial (from Dylan’s childhood acting career): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Y92aCmmbU

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The social radar: Y Combinator’s secret weapon | Jessica Livingston (co-founder of Y Combinator, author, podcast host)

    The social radar: Y Combinator’s secret weapon | Jessica Livingston (co-founder of Y Combinator, author, podcast host)

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    • How Jessica gained the affectionate title of the “social radar”

    • Why defensive founders are a red flag

    • How to develop your social radar

    • What she looks for in founders during YC interviews

    • How YC’s early inexperience in angel investing led to the batch model

    • Her favorite stories from interviews with Airbnb, Rippling, and more

    • Lessons learned from hosting her own podcast

    • Much more

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    Where to find Jessica Livingston:

    • X: https://x.com/jesslivingston

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicalivingston1/

    • Podcast: https://www.thesocialradars.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jessica’s background

    (02:42) Thoughts on being under-recognized

    (07:52) Jessica’s superpower: the social radar

    (15:11) Evaluating founders: key traits and red flags

    (21:00) The Airbnb story: a lesson in hustle and determination

    (25:57) A YC success story

    (28:26) The importance of earnestness

    (32:45) Confidence vs. defensiveness

    (34:43) Commitment and co-founder disputes

    (37:46) Relentless resourcefulness

    (40:00) Jessica’s social radar: origins and insights

    (43:24) Honing her social radar skills

    (45:44) Conviction and scams: a Y Combinator story

    (46:50) The interview process: challenges and insights

    (48:20) Operationalizing founder evaluation

    (49:38) Advice for building social radar skills

    (52:08) The “Reading the Mind in the Eyes” quiz

    (55:19) Jessica’s podcast: The Social Radars

    (01:00:34) Lessons from podcasting and interviewing

    (01:09:58) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Paul Graham’s post about Jessica: https://paulgraham.com/jessica.html

    • Paul Graham on X: https://x.com/paulg

    • Robert Tappan Morris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris

    • Trevor Blackwell on X: https://x.com/tlbtlbtlb

    • Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

    • “The Founders” examines the rise and legend of PayPal: https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/02/19/the-founders-examines-the-rise-and-legend-of-paypal

    • Patrick Collison on X: https://x.com/patrickc

    • John Collison on X: https://x.com/collision

    • Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

    • Nate Blecharczyk on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blecharczyk/

    • Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/

    • Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/

    • Parker Conrad on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerconrad/

    • Zenefits: https://connect.trinet.com/hr-platform

    • Goat: https://www.goat.com/

    • Eddy Lu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddylu/

    • Drew Houston on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewhouston/

    • Arash Ferdowsi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arashferdowsi/

    • Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-1000-yc-startups

    •Bitcoin launderer pleads guilty, admits to massive Bitfinex hack: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/03/new-york-man-admits-being-original-bitfinex-hacker-during-guilty-plea-in-dc-to-bitcoin-money-laundering.html

    • Paul Graham’s tweet with the facial recognition test: https://x.com/paulg/status/1782875262855663691

    • SmartLess podcast: https://www.smartless.com

    • Jason Bateman on X: https://x.com/batemanjason

    • Will Arnett on X: https://x.com/arnettwill

    • Sean Hayes on X: https://x.com/seanhayes

    • The Social Radars with Tony Xu, Co-Founder & CEO of DoorDash: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ja-tony-xu-co-founder-ceo-of-doordash

    • The Social Radars with Brian Chesky: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/JW-brian-chesky-co-founder-ceo-of-airbnb

    • The Social Radars with Patrick and John Collison: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Kx-patrick-john-collison-co-founders-of-stripe

    • The Social Radars with Brian Armstrong: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/K3-brian-armstrong-co-founder-and-ceo-of-coinbase

    • The Social Radars with Emmett Shear: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/KM-emmett-shear-co-founder-of-twitch

    • The Social Radars with Paul Graham: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/JV-paul-graham-co-founder-of-y-combinator-and-viaweb

    • The Social Radars with Adora Cheung: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/L0-adora-cheung-co-founder-of-homejoy-instalab

    Founders at Work: Stories of Startups’ Early Days: https://www.amazon.com/Founders-Work-Stories-Startups-Early/dp/1430210788

    • Startup School: https://www.startupschool.org/

    • The Social Radars with Parker Conrad: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ky-parker-conrad-founder-of-zenefits-rippling

    • Rippling: https://www.rippling.com/

    Carry on, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Carry-Jeeves-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486848957

    Very Good, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Very-Good-Jeeves-Wooster-Book-ebook/dp/B0051GST06

    Right Ho, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Right-Ho-Jeeves-P-Wodehouse-ebook/dp/B083FFDNHN/

    Life: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Keith-Richards-ebook/dp/B003UBTX72/

    My Name Is Barbra: https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Barbra-Streisand/dp/0525429522

    Clarkson’s Farm on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Clarksons-Farm-Season-1/dp/B095RHJ52R

    Schitt’s Creek on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/schitts-creek-a2e7a946-9652-48a8-884b-3ea7ea4de273

    Yellowstone on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/yellowstone

    • Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama

    • Justin Kan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinkan/

    • Alexis Ohanian on X: https://x.com/alexisohanian

    • Steve Huffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shuffman56/

    • Breaking News: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires Reddit: https://techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/

    • Charles River Venture: https://www.crv.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Making an impact through authenticity and curiosity | Ami Vora (CPO at Faire, ex-WhatsApp, FB, IG)

    Making an impact through authenticity and curiosity | Ami Vora (CPO at Faire, ex-WhatsApp, FB, IG)

    Ami Vora is the Chief Product Officer of Faire, which connects independent retailers and brands around the world. Before Faire, Ami spent over 15 years at Meta, including as VP of Product and Design for WhatsApp (2B+ users), VP of Product for Facebook’s ads system (now $130B of annual revenue), and director at Instagram. She began her career working on developer tools at Microsoft. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why execution eats strategy for breakfast

    • Using metaphor to rally teams around one shared goal

    • How to build cross-functional relationships

    • “Dinosaur brain,” “Toddler soccer,” and the “hill climbing” metaphors

    • A tactic for handling disagreement

    • Tips for working well with product-minded founders as a product leader

    • The story of Ami’s incredible 15-year journey from temp to VP at Meta

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers.

    Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents.

    User Testing—Human understanding. Human experiences.

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/authenticity-and-curiosity-ami-vora

    Where to find Ami Vora:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amvora/

    • Substack: https://amivora.substack.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Ami’s background

    (02:00) The myth of perfection in success

    (07:55) Emotionally connecting with the job

    (09:55) Embracing curiosity in moments of challenge

    (13:16) Thinking in feedback loops

    (17:17) The “dinosaur brain” metaphor in product reviews

    (20:20) Strategies for conducting effective product reviews

    (26:33) Using metaphors and imagery to communicate your vision

    (29:35) The power of having a shared narrative

    (31:55) WhatsApp: an example of metaphor in action

    (34:44) Emulating people that inspire you

    (36:19) WhatsApp video calling

    (37:35) Why execution is greater than strategy

    (41:36) Time allotment for strategy vs. execution

    (45:10) How to become a better strategic thinker

    (47:59) The intricacies of implementing feedback

    (51:53) Being a female leader in tech

    (55:13) Advice for young women in tech

    (56:07) Setting goals and aligning incentives

    (01:01:40) Acknowledging hard truths

    (01:05:46) Lessons from transitioning to Faire

    (01:08:40) The importance of a good CPO/CEO relationship

    (01:11:17) Vetting heads of product and maintaining customer focus

    (01:12:40) How Ami went from intern to leading major products at Meta

    (01:14:53) The one thing you should do to be successful in product

    (01:17:25) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Faire: https://www.faire.com/

    • Making Meta | Andrew “Boz” Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

    •  Community Wisdom: AMA with Dan Hockenmaier + Facilitating a roadmap session, structuring product teams, navigating an acquisition, companies not needing PMs anymore, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

    • Developing a growth model + marketplace growth strategy | Dan Hockenmaier (Faire, Thumbtack, Reforge): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/developing-a-growth-model-marketplace

    • Dan Hockenmaier’s website: https://www.danhock.com/

    • On Reviews: https://boz.com/articles/reviews

    • Finding a global optimum always feels like a hill climb: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amvora_finding-a-global-optimum-always-feels-like-activity-7074776143882588161-jhyy/

    • Dolores Park: https://sfrecpark.org/892/Mission-Dolores-Park

    • Rob Goldman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgoldman/

    • Execution eats strategy for breakfast, but execution without strategy leads to burnout: https://rationalpm.substack.com/p/execution-eats-strategy-for-breakfast

    • The goal of a “strategy” is to change our own team’s behavior: https://amivora.substack.com/p/the-goal-of-a-strategy-is-to-change

    • The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

    • Path to Power course outline: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pfeffer-OB377-Course-Outline-2018.pdf

    • Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

    • Max Rhodes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/max-rhodes/

    • Coupa Coffee: https://www.coupacafe.com/

    • Brandee Barker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandeedbarker/

    Year of Yes: How to Dance It Out, Stand In the Sun and Be Your Own Person: https://www.amazon.com/Year-Yes-Dance-Stand-Person/dp/1476777128 

    • How to tell better stories | Matthew Dicks (Storyworthy): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-tell-better-stories-matthew-dicks-storyworthy/

    • A life of yes: Matthew Dicks at TEDxSomerville: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3TaQFcaMk4

    The Office on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/the-office

    30 Rock on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/30-rock/6240863759978157112

    • Dall-E-2: https://openai.com/index/dall-e-2/

    • ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com

    • Fellow kettles: https://fellowproducts.com/products/stagg-ekg-electric-pour-over-kettle

    • TikTok’s “Roman Empire” Meme, Explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2023/09/21/tiktoks-roman-empire-meme-explained/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery)

    Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery)

    Tanguy Crusson is the product lead for Jira Product Discovery at Atlassian. In his more than 10 years at the company, he has been instrumental in taking several new products from zero to one, including HipChat, Statuspage, and Jira Product Discovery. In this episode, we dive deep into the struggles of innovating and building new products inside a large company. Tanguy shares candid stories about what worked, what didn’t, and his many hard-won lessons learned about how to successfully build 0 to 1. We cover:

    • Why large companies with so many advantages still fail at creating new products

    • Lessons learned from building HipChat

    • How to avoid common pitfalls like competitive myopia and premature scaling

    • Lessons learned from the acquisition and integration of Statuspage

    • Insights from the success of Jira Product Discovery

    • Tactics for protecting your “ugly babies”

    • The power of “lighthouse users”

    • The importance of having a “why now”

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-0-to-1-inside-atlassian-tanguy-crusson

    Where to find Tanguy Crusson:

    • X: https://x.com/tanguycrusson

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanguy-crusson-99832a

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Tanguy’s background

    (02:30) Tanguy’s journey at Atlassian

    (07:03) The challenges of innovating in large companies

    (10:42) Atlassian's high bar for excellence 

    (12:58) The HipChat story: successes, failures, and lessons learned

    (20:47) Lessons learned from building HipChat

    (33:49) Statuspage: a journey of perseverance

    (39:48) Acquisition challenges and lessons

    (47:22) Strategic decisions: build, buy, or partner?

    (48:17) Learning to articulate "why now"

    (54:08) A quick summary of lessons in this episode

    (55:40) The success and pain of launching Jira Product Discovery 

    (58:10) Incubating new products: the Point A program

    (01:00:13) Failure is the most likely outcome

    (01:04:15) Atlassian's four-phase approach to launching new products

    (01:09:20) Breaking rules without breaking trust

    (01:16:16) Early success and team autonomy

    (01:17:22) Innovating without disrupting existing customers

    (01:23:17) The Lighthouse Users program

    (01:30:00) Protecting and nurturing new ideas

    (01:36:14) Balancing innovation with personal well-being

    (01:38:17) A reminder to look after yourself

    (01:42:06) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

    • HipChat: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Hipchat/ct-p/hipchat

    • Stride: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Stride/ct-p/stride

    • Statuspage: https://www.atlassian.com/software/statuspage

    • Opsgenie: https://www.atlassian.com/software/opsgenie

    • Jira Product Discovery: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/product-discovery

    • HipChat billboard: https://x.com/HubSpot/status/654696998126272512

    • Announcing our new partnership with Slack: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/new-atlassian-slack-partnership

    • Slack shows it’s worried about Microsoft Teams with a full-page newspaper ad: https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/2/13497766/slack-microsoft-teams-new-york-times-ad

    • What Is ‘Dogfooding’?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html

    • Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

    • Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence

    • PagerDuty: https://www.pagerduty.com/

    • New Relic: https://newrelic.com/

    • BigPanda: https://www.bigpanda.io/

    • Transparent Uptime: http://www.transparentuptime.com/

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Figma: https://www.figma.com/

    • Lessons from Atlassian: Launching new products, getting buy-in, and staying ahead of the competition | Megan Cook (head of product, Jira): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-atlassian-launching

    • Noah Weiss on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahw/

    • Tanguy’s LinkedIn post about “lighthouse users”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tanguy-crusson-99832a_lighthouse-users-one-of-the-pm-techniques-activity-7176654510801502210-hWNi/

    • Pixar Chief: Protect Your ‘Ugly Babies’ (Your Unsightly Ideas): https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyboynton/2014/03/17/pixar-chief-protect-your-ugly-babies-your-unsightly-ideas/

    • Atlas: https://www.atlassian.com/software/atlas

    • Point A: https://www.atlassian.com/point-a

    • Scott Farquhar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottfarquhar

    Who: A Method for Hiring: https://www.amazon.com/Who-Method-Hiring-HC-2008/dp/B004C79SRS/

    Hakim’s Odyssey: Book 1: From Syria to Turkey: https://www.amazon.com/Hakims-Odyssey-Book-Syria-Turkey/dp/1637790007

    Living with the Earth, Volume 1: Permaculture, Ecoculture: Inspired by Nature: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Earth-Gardeners-Permaculture-Ecoculture/dp/1856232603/

    • INRIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Institute_for_Research_in_Computer_Science_and_Automation

    • How a Hydrofoil Works: https://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/hydrofoil/hydrofoil.html

    • What Is Kitefoil or Foilboarding?: https://www.whenitswindy.com/wp/?page_id=534

    • Freediving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving

    • Tanguy’s freediving stats: https://www.aidainternational.org/Athletes/Profile-00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000a45

    • Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB)

    The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB)

    Jeffrey Pfeffer teaches the single most popular (and somewhat controversial) class at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business: The Paths to Power. He’s also the author of 16 books, including 7 Rules of Power: Surprising—But True—Advice on How to Get Things Done and Advance Your Career. He has taught at Harvard, the London Business School, and IESE and has written for publications like Fortune and the Washington Post. Recognized by the Academy of Management and listed in the Thinkers50 Hall of Fame, Jeffrey also serves on several corporate and nonprofit boards, bringing his expertise to global audiences through seminars and executive education. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Jeffrey’s seven rules of power

    • How individuals can acquire and use power in business

    • Networking, and how to do it effectively

    • How to build a non-cringe personal brand

    • How to increase your influence to amplify your impact

    • Examples and stories of people building power

    • Tradeoffs and challenges that come with power

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

    Where to find Jeffrey Pfeffer:

    • X: https://x.com/JeffreyPfeffer

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-pfeffer-57a01b6/

    • Website: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/

    • Podcast: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/pfeffer-on-power/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jeffrey’s background 

    (02:54) Understanding discomfort with power

    (04:56) Power skills for underrepresented groups

    (07:51) The popularity and challenges of Jeffrey’s class at Stanford

    (12:21) The seven rules of power

    (13:03) Success stories from his course

    (15:43) Building a personal brand

    (21:11) Getting out of your own way

    (26:04) Breaking the rules to gain power

    (30:34) Networking relentlessly

    (40:10) Why Jeffrey says to “pursue weak ties”

    (42:00) Using your power to build more power

    (44:34) The importance of appearance and body language

    (47:15) Mastering the art of presentation

    (55:12) Examples of homework assignments that Jeffrey gives students

    (59:11) People will forget how you acquired power

    (01:03:58) More good people need to have power

    (01:10:49) The price of power and autonomy

    (01:17:13) A homework assignment for you

    Referenced:

    • Gerald Ferris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerald-r-ferris-5816b1b5/

    • Political Skill at Work: https://tarjomefa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/4173-engilish.pdf

    • Laura Esserman, MD: https://cancer.ucsf.edu/people/esserman.laura

    • Taylor Swift’s website: https://www.taylorswift.com/

    • Matthew 7: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=NIV

    • Mother Teresa quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2887-if-you-judge-people-you-have-no-time-to-love

    • Paths to Power course description: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pfeffer-OB377-Course-Outline-2018.pdf

    7 Rules of Power: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/books/7-rules-of-power/

    The Knowing-Doing Gap: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/books/the-knowing-doing-gap/

    • Derek Kan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derekkan/

    • Mitt Romney on X: https://x.com/mittromney

    • Elaine Chao’s website: https://www.elainechao.com/

    • Tony Hsieh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hsieh

    • Zappos: https://www.zappos.com/

    • How I Did It: Zappos’s CEO on Going to Extremes for Customers: https://hbr.org/2010/07/how-i-did-it-zapposs-ceo-on-going-to-extremes-for-customers

    • McKinsey & Company: https://www.mckinsey.com/

    • Bain & Company: https://www.bain.com/

    • BCG: https://www.bcg.com/

    • Keith Ferrazzi’s website: https://www.keithferrazzi.com/

    • Deloitte: https://www2.deloitte.com/

    • Tristan Walker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanwalker/

    • Foursquare: https://foursquare.com/

    • Laura Chau on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-chau/

    • Canaan Partners: https://www.canaan.com/

    • Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com/

    • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

    • Greylock: https://greylock.com/

    The Women Who Venture (WoVen) Podcast: https://www.canaan.com/woven/podcasts

    • Imposter syndrome: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/imposter-syndrome

    • Gary Loveman and Harrah’s Entertainment: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/case-studies/gary-loveman-harrahs-entertainment

    • “If you need help, just ask”: Underestimating compliance with direct requests for help: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/if-you-need-help-just-ask-underestimating-compliance-direct-requests

    • Life story of Kathleen Frances Fowler: https://www.forevermissed.com/kathleenfowler/lifestory

    • Jason Calacanis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis/

    • Jason Calacanis: A Case Study in Creating Resources: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/case-studies/jason-calacanis-case-study-creating-resources

    You’re Invited: The Art and Science of Connection, Trust, and Belonging: https://www.amazon.com/Youre-Invited-Science-Cultivating-Influence/dp/0063030977

    • View from the Top: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/guest-speakers/view-top

    • Omid Kordestani on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omid-kordestani-46515151/

    • Netscape: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape

    •  Esther Wojcicki on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherwojcicki/

    • Leanne Williams: https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/leanne-williams

    Precision Psychiatry: Using Neuroscience Insights to Inform Personally Tailored, Measurement-Based Care: https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Psychiatry-Neuroscience-Personally-Measurement-Based/dp/1615371583

    • Mark Granovetter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-granovetter-8161704/

    • The Strength of Weak Ties: https://snap.stanford.edu/class/cs224w-readings/granovetter73weakties.pdf

    Getting a Jobhttps://www.amazon.com/Getting-Job-Study-Contacts-Careers/dp/0226305813

    Acting with Power: https://www.amazon.com/Acting-Power-More-Powerful-Believe/dp/110190397X

    • Articles by Herminia Ibarra: https://herminiaibarra.com/articles/

    Kingdom of the Planet of the Ape: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11389872/

    • Jim Collins’s website: https://www.jimcollins.com/

    • Dana Carney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danarosecarney/

    • Baba Shiv: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/baba-shiv

    • Tony Hayward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hayward

    • Lloyd Blankfein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein

    • Regis McKenna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regis_McKenna

    • Jack Valenti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Valenti

    • Salman Rushdie quote: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/434175220328596286/

    • How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • Carole Robin’s 15% rule: https://pen-name.notion.site/Carole-Robin-on-Lenny-s-Podcast-dc7159208e4242428f4b11ebc92285eb

    • Karlie Kloss on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karliekloss

    • Lindsey Graham’s website: https://www.lindseygraham.com/

    • Was Microsoft’s Empire Built on Stolen Code? We May Never Know: https://www.wired.com/2012/08/ms-dos-examined-for-thef/

    • Who’s who of Jeffrey Epstein’s powerful friends, associates and possible co-conspirators: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/jeffrey-epstein-associates-possible-accomplices/index.html

    • Why Did Martha Stewart Go to Prison? A Look Back at Her 2004 Fraud Case: https://people.com/martha-stewart-fraud-case-prison-sentence-look-back-8550277

    • Dianne Feinstein: https://www.congress.gov/member/dianne-feinstein/F000062

    • Richard Blum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Blum

    • Athena Care Network: https://www.athenacarenetwork.org

    • James G. March: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._March

    • Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/

    • Trump Organization fined $1.6 million for tax fraud: https://apnews.com/article/politics-legal-proceedings-new-york-city-donald-trump-manhattan-e2f1d01525dafb64be8738c8b4f32085

    • Rudy Giuliani: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani

    • Harvard president resigns amid claims of plagiarism and antisemitism backlash: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/jan/02/harvard-president-claudine-gay-resigns

    • Stanford president resigns after fallout from falsified data in his research: https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188828810/stanford-university-president-resigns

    • Rudy Crew: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Crew

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Lessons from a two-time unicorn builder, 50-time startup advisor, and 20-time company board member | Uri Levine (co-founder of Waze)

    Lessons from a two-time unicorn builder, 50-time startup advisor, and 20-time company board member | Uri Levine (co-founder of Waze)

    Uri Levine is the co-founder of Waze, the world’s largest community-based traffic and navigation app, acquired by Google for over $1 billion. He’s also founded nine other companies, been on the board of 20 companies, and advised more than 50 companies. He’s most recently the author of Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the Solution: A Handbook for Entrepreneurs, hailed by Steve Wozniak as the “Bible for entrepreneurs.” Uri is dedicated to creating impactful startups that solve real-world problems and has seen everything from failure to moderate success to big success. In our conversation, we dig into:

    • Why falling in love with the problem is key to startup success

    • The phases of the startup journey and how to navigate them

    • Why firing is more important than hiring

    • How Waze iterated to achieve product-market fit

    • Tactics for telling a compelling story when fundraising

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

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    LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-uri-levine

    Where to find Uri Levine:

    • X: https://twitter.com/urilevine1

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/uri-levine

    • Website: https://urilevine.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Uri’s background

    (02:50) Falling in love with the problem

    (09:03) Signs this is a big enough problem

    (10:54) The importance of passion

    (12:06) A pivot example

    (14:01) Where to find startup ideas

    (21:57) Finding product-market fit at Waze

    (29:45) The different phases of a startup journey

    (36:47) What investors don’t want to hear

    (39:53) Fundraising tips

    (48:02) How to make your presentations stronger

    (50:32) A wild fundraising story

    (53:46) Firing and hiring

    (59:50) The 30-day test

    (01:04:12) Understanding users

    (01:12:10) Talking to the right users

    (01:15:36) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the Solution: A Handbook for Entrepreneurs: https://www.amazon.com/Fall-Love-Problem-Solution-Entrepreneurs/dp/1637741987

    • Waze: https://www.waze.com/

    • Ben Horowitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behorowitz/

    • Ben Horowitz quote: https://quotefancy.com/quote/1635284/Ben-Horowitz-As-a-startup-CEO-I-slept-like-a-baby-I-woke-up-every-2-hours-and-cried

    • Michael Jordan quote: https://www.forbes.com/quotes/11194/#:~:text=I've%20lost%20almost%20300,that%20is%20why%20I%20succeed.

    • Steph Curry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry

    • How Airbnb Used Word of Mouth to Change the Travel Industry Forever: https://truested.com/story/airbnb

    • Space Mountain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Mountain_(Disneyland)

    • How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence

    • Steve Wozniak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wozniaksteve/

    • Uri’s post about the conference in Guatemala with Steve Wozniak: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/uri-levine_jewishnewyear-speakers-book-activity-6980089544079486976-0ADa/

    • Leonardo da Vinci quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9010638-simplicity-is-the-ultimate-sophistication-when-once-you-have-tasted

    • Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead

    • Nana Korobi Ya Oki: https://ikigaitribe.com/vlog/nana-korobi-ya-oki/

    That Will Never Work: The Birth of Netflix and the Amazing Life of an Idea: https://www.amazon.com/That-Will-Never-Work-Netflix/dp/0316530204

    Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break/dp/0735211299

    • 8 Great Chess Apps for Beginners and Grand Masters: https://www.wired.com/story/best-chess-apps/

    • Pontera: https://pontera.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO)

    Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO)

    Cameron Adams is the co-founder and chief product officer of Canva. Canva is one of the world’s most valuable private software companies, used by 95% of Fortune 500 companies. Since its launch in 2013, Canva has grown to over 150 million monthly users in more than 190 countries, generating $2.3 billion in annual revenue. Prior to Canva, Cameron ran a design consultancy, worked at Google on Google Wave, and founded the email startup Fluent. He is also an author of five web design books and a regular speaker at global conferences. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why they spent a year building their minimum viable product (MVP) before launch

    • Why Canva has no managers, and their unique approach to coaching and performance reviews

    • Why they encourage employees to “give away their Legos”

    • Insights into Canva’s SEO growth strategy

    • Their three-pillar framework for integrating AI into their product

    • Stories from the early days

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-canva-with-cameron-adams

    Where to find Cameron Adams:

    • X: https://twitter.com/themaninblue

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/themaninblue

    • Website: https://themaninblue.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Cameron’s background

    (02:00) Reflecting on the success of Canva

    (04:50) Reflecting on hard times

    (10:01) Canva’s product-obsessed culture

    (12:02) Why they prioritize internal promotions and hires

    (13:56) What makes Canva unique

    (16:31) The concept of giving away your Legos

    (21:44) Why Canva has no managers

    (24:29) Product management at Canva

    (27:56) Reflections on working with a married couple

    (30:37) Why they spent a year building their MVP before launch

    (33:49) Advice for building an MVP

    (41:23) Canva’s onboarding transformation

    (44:25) Canva’s SEO strategy

    (50:37) The success of Canva’s freemium strategy

    (54:24) Integrating AI into Canva’s product

    (01:01:50) Where to find Cameron

    Referenced:

    • Canva: https://www.canva.com/

    • Melanie Perkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanieperkins

    • Cliff Obrecht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cliff-obrecht-79ba9920

    • Jennie Rogerson, Head of People, LinkedIn post about “season opener” events: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jennierogerson_season-opener-is-one-of-my-favourite-events-activity-7006815614556135424-73bD/

    Game of Thrones on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones

    • Woodstock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock

    • ‘Give Away Your Legos’ and Other Commandments for Scaling Startups: https://review.firstround.com/give-away-your-legos-and-other-commandments-for-scaling-startups/

    • Minimum viable product (MVP): https://www.productboard.com/glossary/minimum-viable-product-mvp

    • Canva’s SEO Strategy Is Elite: https://thegrowthplaybook.substack.com/p/canvas-seo-strategy-is-elite

    • The SEO Strategy That Led Canva to a $40 Billion Valuation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INyGKt6LAqM

    • Andrianes Pinantoan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrianes/

    • Canva Create: https://www.canva.com/canva-create/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)

    The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)

    Matt Dixon is one of the world’s foremost experts in sales and the author of The Challenger Sale, which sold over a million copies worldwide and was a #1 Amazon and Wall Street Journal bestseller. His most recent book, The JOLT Effect, focuses on overcoming customer indecision—one of the biggest challenges to closing deals. Outside of writing, Matt co-founded DCM Insights, a boutique consultancy helping organizations understand customer behavior, and is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, with more than 20 print and online articles to his credit. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why 40% to 60% of qualified sales opportunities are lost due to customer indecision

    • Why dialing up FOMO doesn’t work, and what to do instead

    • The “pings and echoes” technique to catch issues early

    • The JOLT method for overcoming indecision

    • Key lessons from The Challenger Sale

    • Practical examples of how to apply these principles to close more deals

    Brought to you by:

    Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Heap—Cross-platform product analytics that converts, engages, and retains customers

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon

    Where to find Matt Dixon:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewxdixon

    • Website: https://www.jolteffect.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Matt’s background

    (01:57) The research behind Matt’s books

    (06:08) Insights from The JOLT Effect

    (10:15) FOMO vs. FOMU

    (18:18) An example of selling software

    (26:04) The JOLT method Step 1: Judge their level of indecision

    (29:41) The “pings and echoes” technique

    (34:49) Step 2: Offer a recommendation

    (38:36) Step 3: Limit the exploration

    (41:43) Step 4: Take risk off the table

    (45:58) When to hit the pause button with a customer

    (47:27) Insights from The Challenger Sale

    (49:07) An example of a challenger sale

    (55:23) Where to find Matt

    Referenced:

    • A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting

    The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/0670922854

    The JOLT Effect: How High Performers Overcome Customer Indecision: https://www.amazon.com/JOLT-Effect-Performers-Overcome-Indecision/dp/0593538102

    • Gartner acquires CEB: https://www.gartner.com/en/about/acquisitions/history/ceb-acquisition

    Tiger King on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994

    • Why sourdough went viral: https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/08/04/why-sourdough-went-viral

    • Neil Rackham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Rackham

    • Status quo bias in decision-making: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

    • Omission bias: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/omission-bias

    • Gartner Magic Quadrant & Critical Capabilities: https://www.gartner.com/en/research/magic-quadrant

    • Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    • Stop Losing Sales to Customer Indecision: https://hbr.org/2022/06/stop-losing-sales-to-customer-indecision

    • Dentsply Sirona: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/

    • “We happy?” Briefcase scene from Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGchDuOpbhE

    • Nupro Freedom Cordless Prophy System: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/en-us/discover/discover-by-category/preventive/hygiene-handpieces.html

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart)

    Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart)

    Bangaly Kaba was an early growth PM at Facebook, head of growth at Instagram, and VP of Product at Instacart and is currently Director of Product at YouTube overseeing a global team working on creator monetization. Bangaly has also been a growth advisor to dozens of companies, including Twitter, on the board of multiple companies, and is an active angel investor. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • A simple framework for choosing where to work and what to work on

    • The importance of “understand work”

    • The “adjacent users” theory and how it can help you drive growth

    • Advice for coaching product managers

    • Invaluable lessons from his time at Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

    Mercury—The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/frameworks-for-growing-your-career-bangaly-kaba

    Where to find Bangaly Kaba:

    • X: https://twitter.com/iambangaly

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iambangaly/

    • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iambangaly/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Bangaly’s background

    (06:31) Choosing where to work and what to work on

    (08:39) The impact factor

    (10:53) Evaluating the environment

    (15:53) The manager component

    (18:27) The skills part of the equation

    (23:49) Advice on finding a mentor

    (25:42) The power of “understand work”

    (31:17) Operationalizing understand work

    (37:55) Balancing understand work

    (41:25) Managing complex change

    (45:26) Effective management of product managers

    (51:35) The role of product managers as coaches and team leaders

    (54:52) Driving growth through flywheels and value proposition

    (01:03:14) Understanding adjacent users

    (01:08:41) The role of partnerships and SEO in Instagram’s early growth

    (01:16:08) The secret behind Instagram’s growth

    (01:25:37) Lessons from Facebook

    (01:29:15) Failure corner

    (01:31:58) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Impact = Environment x Skills: How to Make Career Decisions: https://www.reforge.com/blog/how-to-make-career-decisions

    • Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey

    • Casey Winters’s blog: https://caseyaccidental.com/

    • Ben Thompson’s newsletter: https://stratechery.com/about/

    • Elena Verna on how B2B growth is changing, product-led growth, product-led sales, why you should go freemium not trial, what features to make free, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/elena-verna-on-why-every-company

    • George Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geolee/

    • Bangaly Kaba: The Path to 1 Billion: Lessons Learned from Growing Instagram—CXL LIVE 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ZHlb6kj_E

    • What Is ‘Dogfooding’?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html

    • Bloom’s taxonomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_taxonomy

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Mike Krieger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekrieger/

    • LeBron James: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James

    • Kobe Bryant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant

    •  Mike Krzyzewski: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski

    • John Calipari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calipari

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Chief: https://chief.com/

    • Jobs to be done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

    • The Adjacent User: https://brianbalfour.com/quick-takes/the-adjacent-user

    • How the biggest consumer apps got their first 1,000 users: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-biggest-consumer-apps-got

    • Alex Zhu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keepsilence/

    • From Brush to Canvas with Alex Zhu of Musical.ly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey15v81pwII

    • Selena Gomez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/selenagomez/

    • Kim Kardashian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kimkardashian/

    • Rob Andrews on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robby-andrews-64669720/

    • Instagram’s growth speeds up as it hits 700 million users: https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/26/instagram-700-million-users/

    Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

    Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World: https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Work-Focused-Success-Distracted/dp/1455586692

    Start at the End: How to Build Products That Create Change: https://www.amazon.com/Start-End-Products-Create-Change/dp/0525534423

    • Flighty app: https://www.flightyapp.com/

    • Adam Grant on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Why not asking for what you want is holding you back | Kenneth Berger (exec coach, first PM at Slack)

    Why not asking for what you want is holding you back | Kenneth Berger (exec coach, first PM at Slack)

    Kenneth Berger coaches startup leaders on how to prevent burnout, advocate for their desired lifestyle, and make a meaningful impact on the world. He’s spent more than 20 years in the tech industry, is a former founder backed by top investors, and was the first product manager at Slack. Kenneth’s core mission is to help startup leaders change the world by learning to ask for what they want, living with integrity, and building genuine relationships even with the people they find most challenging. Currently he is writing a book, Ask for What You Want, in which he aims to share his actionable strategies for creating change in the world. In our conversation, we explore:

    • Why asking for what you want is so impactful

    • Three steps to effectively ask for what you want

    • Challenges that arise when people struggle to ask for what they want

    • Why hearing “no” is a normal part of the process

    • The “dream behind the complaint” technique for uncovering desires

    • Kenneth’s experience of being fired three times from Slack

    • How embracing fear and discomfort is key to getting what you want

    • Why discipline is overrated

    Brought to you by:

    Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ask-for-what-you-want-kenneth-berger

    Where to find Kenneth Berger:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kberger

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@kberger

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kberger/

    • Website: https://kberger.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kenneth’s background

    (04:31) The importance of asking for what you want

    (06:36) Challenges that arise when people struggle to ask for what they want

    (08:09) A personal example of failing to ask for what you want

    (09:17) Signs this is a skill you need to work on

    (10:49) How to get better at knowing what you want

    (15:28) Why hearing “no” is a normal part of the process

    (17:29) Getting a “yes” vs. a “hell yes”

    (19:20) Step 1: Articulate what you want

    (24:07) Doing an integrity check

    (26:56) Step 2: Ask for what you want intentionally

    (30:45) Understanding your influence

    (34:48) Using complaints as inspiration

    (36:24) Internal family systems

    (38:00) Giving feedback

    (41:24) Step 3: Accept the response

    (45:22) Kenneth’s experience of being fired three times from Slack

    (57:30) Advice on being the first PM at a company or startup

    (01:04:58) Contrarian corner: anti-discipline

    (01:05:52) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Joining as the first product manager: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/joining-as-the-first-product-manager

    • Internal Family Systems: https://ifs-institute.com/

    • How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

    • The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • T-group weekends at Stanford: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/leadership/interpersonal-dynamics/facilitation-training-program/intro-tgroup

    • DBT skill DEAR MAN: https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/dbt-dear-man

    • Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT): https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22838-dialectical-behavior-therapy-dbt

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Stewart Butterfield on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/butterfield/

    • How to fire people with grace, work through fear, and nurture innovation | Matt Mochary (CEO coach): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work

    Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509

    • Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

    • Jonny Miller’s Nervous System Mastery course: https://nsmastery.com/lenny

    • Managing nerves, anxiety, and burnout | Jonny Miller (Nervous System Mastery): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/managing-nerves-anxiety-and-burnout

    The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable-ebook/dp/B00R3MHWUE

    Break Point on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81569920

    Living on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81582076

    • Wimbledon tennis: https://www.wimbledon.com

    • Wenshan Baozhong tea: https://redblossomtea.com/products/wenshan-baozhong?variant=31629962820

    • Tea From Taiwan: https://www.teafromtaiwan.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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