Podcast Summary
Insights on Growth in Southeast Asia and Supporting Women in STEM with Crystal Widjaja: Crystal Widjaja, a former leader of Gojek's growth team, shares her expertise on unlocking growth, investing in growth, hiring and structuring a growth team, and avoiding analytics pitfalls. She also discusses her nonprofit for women in STEM.
Crystal Widjaja has led product and growth teams at some of the largest consumer businesses in Southeast Asia, including Gojek, where she built and led the growth team through the early years of what is now the largest super app in Southeast Asia.In this episode, she shares her insights on the biggest growth unlocks she has seen, growth investments that pay off, growth models, tips for accelerating growth, how to hire and structure your growth team, and why most analytics efforts fail and how to avoid that.Additionally, Widjaja talks about the nonprofit she started to help young women get into STEM.
Crystal Widjaja's Unique Journey in Southeast Asia's Tech Industry.: Crystal Widjaja's non-traditional path from a Poli Sci major to an investment banking research job and then to a Chief Product Officer role in Southeast Asia's growing tech industry showcases the importance of adapting and exploring one's interests to unlock career opportunities.
Crystal Widjaja has had a non-standard career path.She started with a Poli Sci major and ended up with an investment banking research job, where she ended up building a database and realizing her interest in tech.She then applied her investment banking strategies to companies in Southeast Asia and ended up working for Gojek, a multi-service app with around 170 million users across Southeast Asia.She helped build out the data team, fraud and risk team, and performance marketing, and then moved onto becoming the Chief Product Officer at Kumu, a social super app.Southeast Asia is a region with a lot of growth opportunities and scale, making it an exciting place to work.
Kumu: The All-in-One Social App Popular in the Philippines and Worldwide: Kumu is a mobile app that combines social feeds, audio, video, and multi-seat services. Former CFO of Gojek, Crystal Widjaja, joined the company early on, recognizing the value proposition and potential, which has resulted in Kumu ranking in the top 10 grossing mobile apps globally.
Kumu is an app that provides social feeds, audio, video, and multi-seat services all in one app, which primarily serves in the Philippines but ranks top 10 in many countries as a top grossing mobile app.Crystal Widjaja, former CFO of Gojek, joined the company early on when it was still a small-scale business, driven by her understanding of the market and the product’s value proposition.She saw that the solution made sense, and it was a problem that could be solved, even if there were risks involved.Crystal believes that in Asia, super apps are popular because of the sentimental value that conglomerates bring, as well as a limited phone storage capacity.
The Importance of Being Scrappy in Startup Validation: Startups should prioritize user experience and run experiments even with a small sample size because the data obtained can reveal trends and consumer sentiments that cannot be predicted. Be scrappy and test out your ideas.
Crystal Widjaja, former CPO at Gojek, emphasizes the importance of doing things that don't scale to validate a point, especially in the early stages of a startup.She shares examples of how Gojek used scrappy methods like adding drivers to a WhatsApp group to test a subscription feature and sending screenshots of onboarding screens via in-app messages to quickly get feedback from users.Startups should prioritize user experience and run experiments even with a small sample size because the data obtained can reveal trends and consumer sentiments that cannot be predicted.Be scrappy, prioritize user experience, and run experiments early on to validate their ideas.
The Importance of Small-Scale Experimentation: Testing a product with a small sample size can lead to valuable insights, and businesses should focus on optimizing the step prior to conversion rather than just retention.
Crystal Widjaja advises that running experiments with a small sample size, say 30 people, can be valuable especially in the early stages of a product.Testing an idea at this scale can result in the discovery of insights that would be missed when testing a similar idea with hundreds or thousands of people.She further suggests looking for specific reasons that users might convert, taking note of the things that they have to do before making the final decision.Instead of focusing on retention, which is an insufficient goal, businesses should focus on identifying the step right before conversion and optimizing it.
The Importance of Copy and Conversion Rates in Improving User Experience: To improve user experience, focus on resonating with pain points in copy and shortening conversion cycles. A good conversion rate for free products is 60%, with retention measured by users returning next week. Startups should aim for high conversion rates from the start.
Crystal Widjaja, a product manager, emphasizes the importance of copy and conversion rates in improving user experience.If users are not interacting with a webpage or app, the issue may lie in the copy.Widjaja recommends resonating with the pain point rather than emphasizing the solution offered.In terms of conversion rates, Widjaja suggests looking at the most painfully long conversion events and shortening those cycles.A good conversion rate for a free product is 60%, with retention being measured by the percentage of users who return the next week.Widjaja advises startups not to pull forward early adopters and to aim for high conversion rates from the beginning.
Aim for 60% retention rate in week one, then keep it flat. Understand market physics, focus on growth funnels, and use Eppo for next-gen AB testing to improve activation and retention.: To keep users engaged with a free product, start strong with 60% retention in week one and maintain that rate. Take a strategic approach to growth by understanding the market and using tools like Eppo for effective experimentation.
To achieve high retention rates for a free product, aim for a 60% retention rate in week one and keep it flat thereafter.This was seen in the early days of Gojek, a successful decacorn.To drive growth as a founder, start by understanding the current market physics, product, and channels.Then, focus on loops and growth funnels and make sure that any changes fit into the existing model without changing too many variables at once.Eppo, a next-generation AB testing platform, helps modern growth teams easily run experiments and understand results based on north star metrics like activation and retention.
Eppo: A Multipurpose Testing Tool for Faster Company Experimentation: Use Eppo for front-end, back-end, email marketing, and machine learning clients to support faster experimentation. Find constraints and create incentive models like GoPay did to increase acquisition. Use artificial friction like questionnaires for community building like Kumu.
Eppo is a tool that supports tests on the front end, back end, email marketing, and machine learning clients, which can help companies experiment faster.Gojek, for example, found that underutilizing the driver's capacity to drive growth was a leaver that they had not considered before.By creating an incentive model for drivers to sell their E-wallet service, GoPay, they increased acquisition by 60%.When trying to optimize your funnel/loop, start with what currently works and find the constraints.For Kumu, a social media platform, creating artificial friction like questionnaires can help identify users who really want to be a part of a community rather than just passively observing.
Key factors to driving growth for companies: To drive growth, companies should make their products familiar by tying it to something already understood. Addressing user cancellations or churn and properly instrumenting analytics efforts are also crucial.
In order to drive growth, companies need to make their products familiar to consumers.For example, when GoPay was a new concept, they tied it to something familiar, like a credit card, to make it easier for people to understand.Another important factor is listening to the reasons why users cancel or churn, and addressing those specific issues.Adding a pause button for subscriptions, for example, can help alleviate churn caused by fear of commitment.Finally, it's important to properly instrument analytics efforts to get actionable insights, in order to avoid common mistakes that can lead to failure.
The importance of locating insights in tracking data for informed decisions.: Simply collecting data is not enough, insights must be identified to make informed decisions. Setting up metrics with context and properties, identifying trends, preferences and decision-making behaviors helps make valuable changes.
Tracking data is not just about measuring and observing, but also about identifying insights to make informed decisions.Simply collecting data without analyzing it for insights is like seeking entertainment instead of real news.Metrics must be set up with context and properties to provide valuable insights.Observing facts is not equivalent to gaining insights that lead to actionable changes.Therefore, the focus must shift towards locating insights that can provide answers.This approach can help identify trends, preferences, and decision-making behaviors that allow businesses to cater to individual needs and change their marketing approach accordingly.
Going Beyond Surface-Level Analysis for Meaningful User Insights: To truly understand user behavior, go beyond simple analysis and ask "why" repeatedly. Identify gaps in the user experience that a growth team can address, track data to make informed decisions, and use available data tools to gather insights and automate decision-making.
Crystal Widjaja discusses the importance of going beyond surface-level analysis and delving deeper into user behavior to gain context and insight.This involves asking "why" repeatedly until a comprehensive understanding is reached.In terms of setting up a growth team, it's essential to identify gaps in the product or user experience that aren't being addressed by the core feature team.These gaps can be filled by a growth team focused on improving onboarding, identifying SMS providers, and helping users navigate the platform.It's important to map out the user experience and track relevant data to make informed decisions.Finally, Crystal recommends using available data tools like Google Data Studio, Metabase, CleverTap, Amplitude, and Segment as needed to gather insights and automate decision-making.
Importance of Statistics and User Experience in Building a Growth Team: A growth team should have individuals with strong statistical and data analysis skills, a first principle bias, and the ability to fill gaps in the user experience. Focus on impactful opportunities rather than flashy things.
When building a growth team, it's important to have someone with a strong understanding of statistics and data analysis.This person should also have a first principle bias, meaning they are able to approach problems from a fundamental level and design experiments with measured, deliberate approaches.It's also important to identify the gaps in the user experience and have a growth team that can fill those gaps with small acquisition, adoption, and engagement use cases.The growth team can be integrated with cross-functional teams or exist as a separate team depending on the level of product market fit.It's important to avoid focusing on flashy things and instead focus on the right opportunities that will make the most impact and unlock growth for the future.
The Perks of Quick Solutions for Growth Projects: Taking time away from other projects to focus on growth opportunities can benefit companies. Quick solutions can have a significant impact on growth, as shown by Gojek's data team using a Python script and Twilio API to increase driver acceptance rates. When hiring candidates for growth roles, give them time to work on experiment design questions to evaluate their problem-solving skills.
Opportunities in growth require taking time away from other potential projects, and sometimes quick, hacky solutions can yield significant benefits.An example of this is how Gojek's data team used a Python script and Twilio API to increase acceptance rates for drivers by 2%, ultimately improving their onboarding experience.When interviewing potential candidates for growth roles, it's important to give them enough time to work on experiment design questions and see how they approach problem-solving.Crystal Widjaja, co-founder of Generation Girl, a nonprofit that promotes STEM education for girls, shares how they offer free classes to empower young girls to make their own decisions about what they want to pursue without cultural biases or societal pressure.To support their mission, donors can visit their website and donate via PayPal.
Generation Girl's Class Website Offers Free Resources for STEM Education: Generation Girl is striving to increase girls' participation in STEM fields through summer clubs, partnerships, and a free website for teachers. By targeting the youngest generation, they aim to set up girls for success.
Generation Girl is a program in Indonesia that aims to get more girls interested in STEM fields like computer science.They offer summer clubs, partnerships with tech companies, and now a free website for teachers.The website, called Class, gives teachers the resources they need to teach newer concepts to their students.Currently, less than 18% of college graduates in computer science are women, and Generation Girl is working to change that by targeting the youngest generation and setting them up for success with introductory classes.Anyone who wants to help can reach out to Crystal Widjaja or donate enterprise software for iOS development.
![[EXTRAIT] Utiliser la gamification pour diffuser la connaissance produit avec Chloé Girardin](https://www.podcastworld.io/podcast-images/product-marketing-stories-upmtsy94.webp)