Podcast Summary
A conversation with Johnny Marr on creativity, art, and music: Johnny Marr, a legendary musician, discussed creativity, art, and music, emphasizing the importance of open dialogue between artists and the generosity within the community.
Johnny Marr, a legendary musician and songwriter, has significantly influenced the way we approach and play the guitar, joining the ranks of artists like Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, and Chet Atkins. During a special conversation in Manchester, Marr and the podcast host discussed the importance of creativity, art, and music, as well as the generosity within the artist community. Marr, a fan of the podcast, appreciated the open-ended and conversational approach, allowing them to connect over shared passions and ideas. The chat was a unique and enjoyable exploration of art and creativity, showcasing the impact of Marr's work and the importance of open dialogue between artists.
Embracing Unique Names and Identity: People can find inspiration and growth from their unique names and identities, even if they face teasing or challenges. Embracing one's heritage and cultural connections can also lead to creative opportunities.
People, including musicians and actors, often embrace their unique names, even if they have unconventional meanings or origins. Sean Bean, for instance, chose to keep his Irish name that translates to "old woman," despite the potential teasing that comes with it. Similarly, John Mear, who grew up with an Irish name that sounded like "butcher," eventually changed it to Marr, but not before being inspired by a drummer with the same name in a Manchester band. These stories illustrate the importance of embracing one's identity and the impact it can have on personal growth and creativity. Additionally, the strong connection between Irish heritage and music was evident in the Smiths' decision to tour Ireland early in their career, despite being from Irish families and wanting to perform for their fans there.
Irish musicians found success in England during the 1980s: Historical and cultural reasons led Irish musicians to flourish in England, with fans' 'Irish pride' and a romantic, poetic approach to music contributing to their success.
The Irish musical scene in the 1980s saw a unique phenomenon where successful Irish musicians found a flourishing environment in England rather than in Ireland itself. This was due to historical and cultural reasons, with Irish immigrants bringing their music and creativity to a new land where it was embraced and celebrated. The Irish "claiming bans" or pride in Irish acts who did well in England was a significant part of this phenomenon. The Irish mentality towards their music was seen as romantic and poetic, a difference from the more straightforward approach of fans of other British bands. Moreover, much of Irish music and traditions, including harp music which was once a vital part of Irish identity, were suppressed and even banned during colonial times. This historical context influenced the Irish musicians' experiences and their desire to express themselves through their music, leading to a rich musical legacy that continues to inspire and captivate audiences today.
Irish music: A testament to resilience and creativity: Irish music reflects the behavior and traditions of working-class communities and has parallels with other musical cultures, showcasing the power of expression and connection
Irish music, like many post-colonial art forms, is a testament to the resilience and creativity of people in preserving their cultural heritage despite adversity. Irish music, with its deep roots and the use of portable instruments, is a reflection of the behavior and traditions of working-class communities, not just in Ireland but also in other parts of Europe and even in urban areas. This tradition, passed down through generations, has parallels with other musical cultures, such as the blues in America, where the shift from acoustic to electric music was driven by the need to be heard in new urban environments and workplaces. Ultimately, music, whether it's Irish, blues, or any other genre, is a powerful means of expression and connection that transcends time and place.
Creative expression and connection despite adversity: Throughout history, people have transformed everyday objects into tools for self-expression and communal celebration, especially during times of discrimination and hardship.
Throughout history, people have found creative ways to express themselves and connect with their communities despite adversity. From the use of horses' skulls as makeshift sound systems in rural Irish homes to the repurposing of wooden shacks as instruments in Mississippi, people have transformed everyday objects into tools for self-expression and communal celebration. This need for connection was particularly strong in the face of discrimination and hardship, as seen in the experiences of Irish immigrants in Manchester during the 1970s. Despite the fear and shame associated with their identity, they continued to gather and create music, passing down traditions and inspiring future generations. Ultimately, these stories serve as a reminder of the power of human connection and the resilience of the human spirit.
Growing up Irish in Manchester during the 1970s: The speaker's experiences as an Irish kid in Manchester during the 1970s influenced their identity and shaped their perspective on English national symbols.
The speaker's experiences growing up as an Irish kid in Manchester during the 1970s shaped their identity and perspective in significant ways. The speaker's connection with John Lydon, who also grew up Irish in England during that time, brought back memories of the discrimination and prejudice they faced. The title of Lydon's autobiography, "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish," resonated with the speaker as it reflected the harsh reality of the time. The speaker's parents, who were apolitical, moved to Manchester from the south, and the predominantly Irish community the speaker grew up in, influenced their appreciation for their new home. However, the Union Jack, a symbol of English national pride, was offensive to the speaker due to its association with the far-right National Front during that time. The speaker's experiences shaped their identity as a Mancunian Irish person, and their anti-Union Jack sentiment has stuck with them to this day.
Unexpected connections through community and kindness: Community support and kindness can lead to surprising connections across generations. A family's act of kindness towards a stranger led to a new relationship between the speaker and a grandchild they didn't know, highlighting the importance of creating a welcoming and inclusive environment.
The power of community and kindness can create unexpected connections across generations. The speaker shares a story about how their family was taken in by the Farrells during a difficult time, and how decades later, they discovered that one of their grandchildren, Manny, was part of a band called Moundfield. The speaker was amazed by the coincidence and reached out to Manny, leading to a new connection. This experience highlights the importance of community support and the ripple effect it can have on future generations. Additionally, the conversation touched on the English working class music tradition, with the speaker expressing admiration for the vaudevillian element in it. They felt a connection to this tradition as a performer and saw the value in providing a good experience for audiences, no matter their background or financial means.
The cultural significance of music in the past: Music's scarcity in the past gave it cultural value and made it a shared experience, contrasting today's individual consumption
Music in the past held more cultural significance due to its scarcity. The centralization of radio in England during the 60s allowed people from different backgrounds and locations to listen to the same music, spreading cultural influences. Ray Davies of The Kinks incorporated calypso sounds from Jamaican records into their music, reaching a wide audience. The scarcity of music back then gave it more value and made it a shared experience, unlike today where music is easily accessible and often consumed individually. The shift from a shared music culture to an individual one has changed the way music is consumed and appreciated.
Nineties Romance and Personal Growth: The speaker reflects on the past ways of expressing romantic interest and shares his journey towards weight loss and promoting PlushCare.
During the nineties, expressing romantic interest involved creating thoughtful mixtapes with handwritten track lists and burned CDs. The speaker also mentioned his struggles with weight loss and promoting PlushCare as a solution. The podcast is funded through listener support on Patreon, and the speaker announced upcoming live shows and book availability. During the conversation with Johnny Marr, they discussed the importance of the creative process, which the speaker finds inspiration through running and meditation. The speaker is a fan of Yerde Yehe Hearne and expressed a desire to create a musical collaboration with him. The podcast also featured advertisements for Blue Nile's lab-grown diamonds and PlushCare's weight loss services.
Embracing criticism for growth: Criticism can be painful, but it's a necessary part of the artistic journey. Use it as motivation to improve and grow.
Writer's block and the fear of criticism can significantly hinder an artist's creative process. The speaker shared his personal experience of getting a scathing review that led to a year-long writer's block. The pain of the criticism brought back childhood feelings of inadequacy and made him question his talent. However, instead of giving up, he embraced the frustration and used it as motivation to improve his craft. The gap caused by the criticism became a driving force for him to push through the self-doubt and continue creating. Ultimately, the speaker views the painful experience as a necessary part of the artistic journey, as it helped him grow and become a better writer.
The pursuit of creativity and flow: Artists seek meaning and purpose in their work, fueled by a desire to escape the mundane or make sense of the world. Self-criticism and negative feedback can be challenging but ultimately fuel the creative process.
The drive for creativity comes from a sense of incompleteness and the pursuit of flow. The artist's mind is wired to seek meaning and purpose in their work, often fueled by a desire to escape the mundane or make sense of the world. However, this artistic sensibility can also lead to self-criticism and a focus on the negative feedback, which can be challenging but ultimately fuels the creative process. The speaker shares a personal anecdote about his experience with this, involving a milk bottle and a near-disastrous encounter with bleach and ammonia. Despite the risks and challenges, the pursuit of creativity and the feeling of flow is a deeply meaningful experience for the artist, providing a sense of purpose and fulfillment. The podcast, for the speaker, is a prime example of this, serving as a source of pure flow and a means of sharing stories and ideas with the world.
Revisiting past experiences and art can inspire creativity: Revisiting past experiences and art can reignite creativity and remind us of the power and joy of art. Failure doesn't exist in art, and it's crucial to stay true to our passions.
Finding inspiration and creativity can come from revisiting past experiences and art that resonated with us deeply during our formative years. For the speaker, rereading "The Butcher Boy" by Pat McCabe helped him overcome a creative block and reminded him of the power and joy of art. He emphasized that failure doesn't exist in art, and it's essential to keep trying and stay true to our passions. The speaker's love for music, particularly Patti Smith and The Only Ones, during his teenage years was a significant influence on him. He acknowledged that rock music may not be as magical as the art form he described, but it's fascinating how musicians' work can evolve and gain new appreciation over time, despite initial criticism or dismissal.
Musical preferences shaped by past experiences: Our musical tastes are largely formed by age 14, but we can still appreciate new music. Pop music's definition evolves, and personal experiences influence our musical connections.
Our musical preferences and connections to certain artists or genres can be deeply rooted in our past experiences and formative years. According to research, our musical tastes are largely established by the age of 14. This is why, as we age, new music can seem intimidating or unfamiliar. However, this doesn't mean we can't still appreciate and connect with new music. The definition of pop music has evolved over time, and it's important to remember that everyone's interpretation of the genre can differ. The speaker in this conversation emphasized his love for pop music, but acknowledged that it's not the same as it was when he was younger. He also discussed the influence of past experiences on his solo work and the role of the "old gray whistle test" in evaluating music. Ultimately, our musical tastes and experiences shape who we are and how we connect with the world around us.
Embrace failure and find internal validation: Artists should trust their creative process, value internal validation, and not be overly influenced by external praise or criticism to maintain a healthy and productive creative flow.
The creative process, especially in music, involves embracing failure and maintaining an internal sense of validation. The artist should not rely too heavily on external praise or criticism, as it can hinder the creative flow and lead to an unhealthy attachment to success or rejection. The romanticized image of the songwriter sitting by the piano, expressing deep emotions, can limit the scope of creativity, and there's a need for more room for conceptual and interesting ideas in music. The industry's focus on personal expression can make it challenging for artists who don't fit that mold to succeed. Ultimately, the artist's journey is about staying true to their vision and continuing to create, regardless of external validation.
Music can evoke emotions without deep meaning: Pop music often focuses on catchy hooks and social media presence, but can still leave a lasting impact with or without deep lyrics.
Songwriting and pop music are not just about deep, meaningful lyrics. While great lyrics are important, music can also evoke strong emotions and make an impression without explicit meaning. Iggy Pop's "The Passenger" and OutKast's "Hey You" are examples of songs that make listeners feel great without requiring a deep connection to the lyrics. Pop music, in particular, is often about having a good idea and executing it well. The importance of catchy hooks and social media presence in today's music industry means that not all popular songs are deeply meaningful, but they can still leave a lasting impact. When looking back at the history of music, it's important to remember that not everything that was popular was critically acclaimed or groundbreaking. Novelty records and mainstream pop songs were a big part of the charts, and they still have the power to evoke emotions and memories.
Embracing the entire cultural landscape: Understanding the value of music and culture requires acknowledging both successes and failures, and appreciating the unique qualities that make each era distinct.
The appreciation for music and culture is often better understood in retrospect. While it's easy to romanticize the past and assume that everything was better then, the reality is that there were just as many failures and obscurities as there were successes. The speaker emphasizes the importance of experiencing and embracing the entire cultural landscape, even the less appealing parts, to truly understand its value. One specific example given was the rise of the song "Golden Brown" by The Stranglers, which was popularized by an unexpected demographic: grandmothers. The speaker reminisces about the song's unique 6:8 timing and how it stood out due to the limitations of technology at the time. He also discusses the role of hip hop in the late 80s and early 90s, where the dissonance created by sampling and time stretching resulted in innovative and progressive music. However, as technology advanced and made it easier to produce music in perfect harmony, the unique qualities that made the music stand out began to disappear. Overall, the speaker encourages an open-minded approach to culture and music, recognizing that the value lies not only in the hits but also in the attempts and failures.
Industrial cities Detroit and Manchester shaped music history: Detroit's automobile industry and pursuit of perfection led to Motown and house music, while Manchester's rich cultural history and nightclub scene fostered electronic music and the rave scene.
The industrial cities of Detroit and Manchester have significantly influenced the development of popular music, particularly in the areas of R&B, house, and electronic genres. Detroit, known for its automobile industry and precision, gave birth to the rhythmic perfection of Motown and later house music through the use of machines and the pursuit of perfection. Manchester, an industrial city with a rich cultural history and a high number of nightclubs, fostered the growth of electronic music and the rave scene. The industrial revolution, immigration, and the availability of places for performance contributed to the thriving music scene in Manchester. Additionally, the weather and the influence of local bands played a role in the music that came out of these cities. Overall, the industrial backgrounds of Detroit and Manchester shaped the sounds and cultures that came to define important musical movements.
Manchester's industrial past shaped its unique cultural identity: Manchester's history of self-made industrialists and socio-economic contrasts led to a rebellious and bohemian attitude, symbolized by subcultures like Northern Soul.
Manchester's industrial past and socio-economic dynamics played a significant role in shaping its unique cultural identity. The city's history of self-made industrialists and the stark contrast between the wealthy factory owners and the working class created a sense of "us and them," leading to a rebellious and bohemian attitude that can be seen in its music and comedy scenes. This mentality, influenced by the Mediterranean sailors and theatrical people, set the stage for the emergence of subcultures like Northern Soul, which became a symbol of Manchester's distinctive style and spirit. Despite the hardships faced by the working class, the proximity of the wealthy factory owners created a sense of relatability, fostering a culture of taking the piss and pushing boundaries in art and music.
The unexpected exchange of coal and records shaped music trends: Historical coal trades led to the popularization of obscure songs, highlighting the concept of cultural scarcity and its impact on music trends
The unexpected exchange of coal and records between Manchester/Liverpool and Chicago/Detroit in the past played a significant role in popularizing obscure songs from these cities. This cultural exchange occurred due to the need to balance the weight of ships returning to England. Now, if we were to consider an equivalent today, it might be the vast amount of discarded technology or digital content. While it's unclear if such a phenomenon exists, it's an intriguing thought. This discussion highlights the concept of cultural scarcity and how it has shaped music trends throughout history. For instance, the Smiths gained popularity among Latinos due to their expressive singing, love for guitars, and the fetishization of 50s culture in Latino communities. Today, we see a reversal of this trend with African American kids embracing nineties white person music. Music, as an art form, has been a part of human civilization for centuries, and the 20th century, with its ability to record and preserve music, might be remembered as a pivotal era in its history.
The impact of recorded music on listener experience: The availability of recorded music has made the experience more casual and abundant, but some argue that the scarcity and effort required in the past contributed to a deeper emotional connection.
The availability and accessibility of recorded music have significantly impacted its meaning and value for listeners. Before recordings, experiencing music was a more scarce and deliberate process, often requiring personal connections or significant resources. This scarcity contributed to a deeper appreciation for the music that was heard. However, with the widespread availability of recorded music, the experience has become more casual and abundant. While there are benefits to this, such as the ability to easily explore new music and revisit old favorites, some argue that the scarcity and effort required in the past contributed to a greater emotional connection and meaning for the listener. Ultimately, the way we consume music continues to evolve, and it's up to each individual to find the value and meaning in their unique listening experiences.
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