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    Putin’s Endgame: A Conversation With Fiona Hill

    enMarch 11, 2022

    Podcast Summary

    • Understanding Putin's Mindset in Ukraine ConflictRecognizing Putin's strategic goals and addressing them diplomatically while acknowledging his negative perception towards the West is crucial to finding a peaceful resolution to the Ukraine conflict.

      Vladimir Putin's perspective on the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and his relationship with the West is shaped by his strategic goals, personal beliefs, and a sense of infallibility. Putin, who has been in power for 22 years, sees himself and the Russian state as one, and his decisions, particularly regarding Ukraine, are made with a narrow group of military and security officials. Putin's view of the West is negative, and he believes that the West is out to get him. Understanding Putin's mindset is crucial to finding a peaceful resolution to the conflict in Ukraine. Engaging Putin effectively requires recognizing his strategic goals and addressing them diplomatically, while also acknowledging the negative perception he holds towards the West.

    • Historical events shaping Russian perception of the WestRussian perception of the West as a malevolent force seeking regime change is deeply rooted in history, but this perspective overlooks the agency of countries like Ukraine in their pursuit of independence.

      The Russian mentality of being under constant siege and the belief that the West is pushing for regime change in Russia is deeply rooted and influenced by historical events. Putin sees the US and the West as a malevolent force seeking to install their version of Russian power. However, political scientist Samuel Sharap argues that there is a genuine expansionary pressure from the West, but this perspective denies the agency of countries like Ukraine. Throughout history, many countries have fought for their independence, and the US has had its own version of imperial expansion. Russia's current actions can be seen as a post-colonial, post-imperial impulse, rooted in a belief that lands and peoples cannot possibly want to go their own way without external influence.

    • Identity and ethnicity at the heart of Russia-Ukraine conflictPutin's miscalculation on Russian identity in Ukraine led to resistance, solidifying Ukrainian identity instead.

      The conflict between Russia and Ukraine is not just about geopolitical interests or security alliances, but also deeply rooted in identity and ethnicity. Putin's miscalculation in overestimating the potency and ubiquity of Russian identity in Ukraine has led to significant resistance and a strengthening of Ukrainian identity. Volodymyr Zelensky, a Russian-speaking Jewish Ukrainian president, is a prime example of the complexity of the situation and a challenge to Putin's beliefs. The invasion has done more to solidify Ukrainian identity than anything else. Putin's fear of Westernization or Ukrainianization of the Ukrainian people is driving his actions, but these efforts have only backfired. It's essential to understand the intricacies of identity and ethnicity in the context of this conflict to avoid perpetuating harmful propaganda and to seek a peaceful resolution.

    • A battle for national identity in UkrainePutin's expansionist aspirations fuel the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, rooted in complex identity politics, as both leaders advocate for their visions of national identity.

      The ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine is rooted in complex identity politics, with both leaders, Volodymyr Zelensky and Vladimir Putin, advocating for their respective visions of national identity. Putin aims to present Russia as the leader of the white Christian Russian Orthodox world, while Zelensky seeks to allow the Ukrainian people to decide their own identities. Putin's fear of Ukraine moving away from his vision has led him to aspire to severely punish Ukraine for not falling in line and to carve the country up, as well as to send a message to the US and NATO. The documents submitted to the US and NATO in December 2021, demanding no NATO deployment in Eastern Europe and the withdrawal of US troops, suggest Putin's expansionist aspirations. The conflict is a battle for people to express their complex identities and is a significant challenge in the modern era.

    • Putin's demands for Ukraine go beyond surrenderPutin seeks recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk, plus neutralization of non-allied ex-Soviet states.

      Russian President Vladimir Putin's demands regarding Ukraine extend beyond just the surrender of the country and include the recognition of Russia's claim over Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk, as well as the neutralization and demilitarization of former Soviet republics not in Russia's alliance. Putin's actions are influenced by historical figures and events, including the annexation of Crimea by Catherine the Great and Russia's past military victories. Putin's ultimate goal is unclear, but it seems to involve countering perceived Western aggression and reasserting Russian power. Initially, Putin may have believed that the situation in Ukraine would be resolved quickly, but it has since become a prolonged conflict.

    • Putin's Invasion of Ukraine: A Quagmire for PutinDespite international backlash, Putin refuses to back down from Ukraine invasion due to desire to avoid humiliation and maintain power, potentially escalating into larger conflict

      Russian President Putin's invasion of Ukraine has led to a quagmire situation for him, with the international community pushing back against his actions. Putin, who is deeply invested in his plan to subjugate Ukraine, has refused to back down despite facing significant backlash, including economic sanctions and a potential shift in the narrative to a larger geopolitical conflict. Putin's psychology, driven by a desire to avoid humiliation and maintain his power, has led him to double down on military action and even threaten the use of nuclear weapons. This escalation is a classic Putin tactic to shift the focus away from Ukraine and onto the larger powers involved. It's crucial to keep the focus on Russia's invasion of Ukraine and avoid getting drawn into a larger conflict. Putin's history of intervening to prevent regime change in other countries shows that he is willing to go to great lengths to maintain his power.

    • Navigating the Complexities of the Russia-Ukraine ConflictThe Russia-Ukraine conflict is a complex issue involving values, leaders, and geopolitical tensions. Putin's actions have led to a dangerous situation, but framing it as an invasion within the UN is crucial to prevent escalation. Zelensky's transformative leadership has shifted the focus to values, making compromises more difficult.

      The ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and the role of leaders like Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky, requires a nuanced approach. While Putin's actions have led to a dangerous situation, framing the issue as an invasion of Russia within the United Nations is crucial to prevent escalation. Zelensky, on the other hand, has emerged as a transformative leader who has challenged the West to uphold its values. His emotional appeal and charisma have shifted the landscape, making compromises over material concerns more difficult. The conflict has become about values rather than land or security, making it a more complex issue to navigate. Ultimately, the situation requires careful handling and a commitment to upholding principles.

    • Zelenskyy's approach to Russia-Ukraine conflict goes beyond great power politicsZelenskyy focuses on shared values, signals willingness to find a solution, and multitasks to mobilize support. Potential end games range from Russian conquest to settlements, with likelihood depending on international response and Putin's need to win.

      Volodymyr Zelenskyy's approach to the Russia-Ukraine conflict goes beyond great power politics, focusing on shared values. However, finding a peaceful resolution that satisfies both sides may be challenging due to the importance of having a charismatic leader during wartime and the potential for difficult negotiations. Zelenskyy's pragmatic actions, such as signaling a willingness to find a solution and pushing for humanitarian corridors and ceasefires, demonstrate his ability to multitask and mobilize support from other countries. The potential end games of the conflict range from a full Russian conquest of Ukraine to various settlements, with the likelihood depending on international response and Putin's perceived need to win. Ultimately, Zelenskyy aims to secure a seat at the negotiating table and prevent the conflict from setting a dangerous precedent for other countries.

    • Finding a resolution to the Russia-Ukraine conflictAchieving ceasefires, withdrawals, and avoiding ballistic missiles is key to resolving the Russia-Ukraine conflict. The UN and international community must be involved, and China's role in European security adds complexity. Talks between diplomats have been unproductive, and the human cost and inflation are mounting.

      Resolving the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine requires a careful approach, with a focus on achieving ceasefires, withdrawals of Russian forces and heavy weaponry, and avoiding the use of ballistic missiles and cruise missiles. The international community, including the United Nations, will need to be involved in finding a pathway out. Additionally, China's recent involvement in the conflict as a factor in European security adds complexity to the situation and requires a more globalized solution. The talks between Russia and Ukraine's top diplomats have so far yielded no progress, and the human cost of the war is mounting, with reports of mass graves and increasing civilian casualties. Inflation is also a major concern, with consumer prices in the US rising at the fastest pace in 40 years.

    • Anticipated gas price rise in March due to record high gasoline costsGas prices are projected to increase in March as gasoline costs reach new records, with the average gallon costing $4.32

      Prices are anticipated to rise further in March due to escalating gasoline costs, which have reached new record highs. The average price of a gallon of gas on Thursday was $4.32. This episode was brought to you by Roger Karma, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, and was fact-checked by Michelle Harris and Andrea Lopez Rosato. The mixing was done by Jeff Geld, and Chris Wood engineered it. Irene Noguchi serves as the executive producer of The Ezra Klein Show. Our theme music is courtesy of Jim Brunsberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. We'd like to express our gratitude to Shannon Busta and Kristen Lin. Stay tuned for more news from The Daily, and we'll be back on Monday.

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