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    Richard Hanania - Foreign Policy, Fertility, and Wokeness

    enFebruary 24, 2022

    Podcast Summary

    • Simplifying Grand Strategy: A Myth in International Relations?Public choice theory, which views individuals and groups as pursuing their own interests, offers a more accurate model for understanding foreign policy than the idea of a grand strategy where states act rationally and consistently.

      The idea of a grand strategy in international relations, where states act as rational units pursuing consistent goals, is a simplification that doesn't accurately reflect reality. According to Richard Hanania, author of "Public Choice Theory and the Illusion of Grand Strategy," we don't think of domestic policy in the same way, and foreign policy is more complex. Hanania argues that public choice theory, which sees individuals and groups as pursuing their own interests, provides a better model for understanding foreign policy. This includes looking at American foreign policy and examining how it aligns with this alternative perspective. Hanania challenges the notion that states always act rationally or have cohesive strategies, pointing out that there are other factors at play. Ultimately, Hanania suggests that countries that can effectively navigate the complexities of international relations and pursue their interests will be more successful in the long run.

    • The Influence of Economic Strength on Foreign PolicyEconomic strength can lead to geopolitical power but also make it challenging for states to form a cohesive grand strategy due to domestic concerns. War can force political institutions to stay agile but also carries risks.

      The relationship between a state's economic strength and its foreign policy can be complex. While good economic institutions may lead to strong geopolitical power, they can also make it difficult for the state to form a cohesive grand strategy due to the influence of interest groups and a focus on domestic concerns. On the other hand, the potential for war can force political institutions to stay agile and prevent them from becoming too sclerotic. However, war also carries the risk of negative change. Centralized governments, like China, may appear to have an advantage in forming a coherent foreign policy, but they too can make costly mistakes. Ultimately, the book explores whether China's foreign policy is both smart and coherent in comparison to the US.

    • China's Focus on Regional Influence and Fewer Global CommitmentsChina's foreign policy strategy is more cohesive due to regional focus and fewer global commitments. Historical examples suggest even weaker countries can have interventionist foreign policies, but presidents' desired strategies should consider costs and potential backlash.

      While China and the US have different approaches to foreign policy, China's strategy appears more cohesive due in part to its focus on regional influence and fewer global commitments. The speaker notes that China's actions, such as punishing Lithuania, are often goal-oriented and understandable in the context of state behavior. However, the question remains whether China's current approach is a result of its lack of global power or a deliberate choice. The speaker also points out that historical examples, such as Maoist China and Russia, show that even economically weaker countries can have interventionist foreign policies. Ultimately, the public's lack of interest in foreign policy compared to domestic issues may give presidents some freedom to pursue their desired strategies, but the costs and potential backlash should be considered.

    • Understanding unique motivations and goals of regimesIn complex cases like North Korea and Venezuela, it's crucial to understand unique motivations and goals before proposing solutions. Diplomacy and accommodating defensive fears in North Korea, or recognizing historical context and potential benefits of market reforms in Venezuela, could lead to peaceful alternatives.

      While traditional interventions and sanctions may not be effective solutions in every situation, particularly in complex cases like North Korea and Venezuela, it's crucial to understand the unique motivations and goals of each regime. In the case of North Korea, the desire for nuclear weapons may stem from a defensive fear of the US. Engaging diplomatically and potentially accommodating that fear could be a more peaceful alternative. Alternatively, the regime may aim to conquer the South. In Venezuela, the US could consider the historical context of failed central planning and the potential benefits of market reforms. However, it's essential to recognize that every region and situation is unique and that US involvement, while well-intentioned, can sometimes do more harm than good. For instance, the war on drugs and meddling in democratization efforts have had negative consequences in Latin America. Ultimately, a more nuanced and thoughtful approach is necessary to address these complex geopolitical challenges.

    • Foreign policy driven by strategic interests and ideas, domestic policy by ideology and cultural attitudesForeign policy influenced by external factors, domestic policy by internal factors. Ideas and self-interest shape both, but in different ways. Public opinion matters more in salient or costly areas.

      When it comes to foreign policy, special interests and strategic considerations of other countries play a significant role, while ideas may serve as justifications. In contrast, domestic policy is driven more by ideology and cultural attitudes, with economic self-interest having minimal impact on political preferences. The speaker also emphasized that public opinion matters more in policy areas that are particularly salient or costly for the country. Overall, the discussion highlights the complexity of both international and domestic politics and the importance of understanding the unique dynamics of each.

    • Manipulating Public Opinion in Foreign PolicyLeaders can more easily manipulate public opinion on foreign policy due to lack of independent knowledge and reliance on media and elites. The Iraq war serves as an example. Solutions include regulating foreign lobbyists and limiting defense contractors' influence, but cultural changes like disclosing politicians' corporate affiliations may also help.

      Public opinion in foreign policy is more easily manipulated by leaders compared to domestic politics. This is due to the fact that most people lack independent knowledge about foreign countries and rely on media coverage and elites' signals to form their opinions. The Iraq war is an example of this, where the Bush administration was able to manipulate public opinion to support the war based on fear of WMDs and the perceived connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, despite a lack of evidence. The speaker suggests that regulating foreign lobbyists and limiting the influence of defense contractors on think tanks and research institutions could be potential solutions to this issue. However, he also acknowledges that money's influence on politics is complex and that a cultural change, such as disclosing former politicians' corporate affiliations, could help shift the power dynamics in politics.

    • Evaluating Progress and Impact in Various FieldsWhile some fields have shown progress, others have worsened. It's essential to evaluate policies critically, considering unique contexts and historical trends.

      While some fields like economics have shown significant progress, such as the reduction in global poverty, others like international relations and psychology have seen societal trends worsen. However, it's important to consider the unique contexts of each field. For instance, the absence of nuclear wars can be seen as a success for international relations, but it's not the same as measuring progress against a historical trend of nuclear wars. When it comes to American foreign policy, some interventions like regime change wars and sanctions have caused more harm than good and should be reconsidered. Other aspects, like US commitments to NATO and the presence in Japan and South Korea, have contributed to maintaining relative peace. Overall, it's crucial to evaluate the impact of various fields and policies critically, considering their unique contexts and historical trends.

    • The complex factors contributing to the decline of violenceDespite debates on the role of US and NATO, the shift in people's perception towards war as irrational and harmful might be the primary reason for the global decline in violence. However, not all regions have experienced peace equally, and American foreign policy could be a contributing factor to violence in certain areas.

      The decline of violence around the world is a complex issue with various contributing factors. While some argue that the influence of the US and international alliances like NATO have led to a safer world, others suggest that these factors may not be the primary reason for the decrease in violence. Instead, the idea that people increasingly view war as irrational and harmful may be a more significant factor. However, it's important to note that not all regions have experienced the same level of peace, and some areas, such as parts of Latin America, continue to struggle with high crime rates and violence. Additionally, American foreign policy's impact on these areas could be a contributing factor to the violence. Ultimately, the causes of the decline in violence are multifaceted, and further research is needed to fully understand their implications.

    • Tensions between US and Russia rooted in ideological differences and perceived threatsDespite challenges, expertise and peer review are crucial for advancing knowledge and understanding, especially in complex fields like social sciences

      The tensions between the United States and Russia are rooted in ideological differences and a perceived threat to Russian sovereignty. The US sees Russia as an illegitimate non-democracy and seeks regime change, while Russia fears the encroachment of NATO and Western influence. On a different note, the discussion touched upon the role of peer review and specialized knowledge in various fields. While it may not be as effective in the social sciences as in the hard sciences, the social sciences are more complex and less reliant on social dishonorability bias. The example of the mRNA vaccine shows that breakthroughs can occur outside of the traditional academic system, and the real-world application of ideas can lead to progress. Ultimately, the importance of expertise and peer review in advancing knowledge and understanding cannot be overstated, but it is essential to recognize the unique challenges and complexities of different fields.

    • The impact of social desirability bias and lack of accountability in social sciencesSocial desirability bias and lack of accountability in social sciences can lead to inaccurate information. Economics, with its rigorous methods, has been more effective in challenging and correcting flawed theories. Maintaining intellectual honesty and rigor is crucial to ensure the accuracy and relevance of academic research.

      The lack of accountability, strong beliefs, and absence of real-world testing in the social sciences can lead to the belief and propagation of inaccurate information. Social desirability bias is a significant obstacle in the pursuit of truth. Economics, with its more rigorous and mathematical requirements, has been more effective in challenging and correcting flawed theories. However, there have been instances of academic fields being disconnected from reality, such as the popularization of communism or disarmament theories in academia during certain periods. The recent calls for diversity and the potential dilution of academic rigor could potentially make things worse. It's important to maintain a culture of intellectual honesty and rigor to ensure the accuracy and relevance of academic research.

    • The Harmful Effects of Academia's Move Away from Hard StandardsDespite potential harm, institutions focused on ambiguous topics are necessary. Trusting accurate institutions like prediction markets and economic markets may be more effective than relying on selectively quoted or misrepresented experts.

      The current state of academia, with its move away from hard standards and the rise of cancel culture, is harmful and may have worsened over time. However, institutions focused on ambiguous topics like international relations, criminology, and psychology are necessary for informed decision-making. The issue lies in the potential for experts to be selectively quoted or misrepresented, leading to confusion and misinformation. Instead, trusting institutions that rely on track records of accuracy, such as prediction markets and economic markets, may be more effective in guiding policy and public discourse. Additionally, the winning streak of liberalism in politics is attributed to their greater passion and dedication to the field.

    • The left's increased activism and political pressure led to Big Tech's shift towards liberal values.Big Tech's shift towards liberal values was driven by heightened activism and political pressure from the left, resulting in a change in company culture and values.

      The shift towards liberal values in various institutions, such as Big Tech, can be attributed to increased engagement and mobilization on the left side of the political spectrum. This was particularly evident in the 2016 election, where there was a significant increase in activism and protesting among liberals compared to conservatives. Additionally, political pressure from the top played a role in making Big Tech more "woke" as they faced calls for censorship and civil rights lawsuits. The initial leaders in tech were nonconformists with a libertarian ethos, but as tech became more established, it began to attract more conformist individuals, leading to a change in values. In contrast, it may be easier for idealistic individuals to maintain those ideals on the left side of the political spectrum.

    • The narratives and goals of Walmart vs Big TechWalmart focuses on logistics and lower prices, while Big Tech presents as revolutionary and socially conscious. These differences influence the rise of populism and libertarianism, and understanding their motivations is crucial for effective strategies.

      The difference between the appeal and perceived impact of companies like Walmart and Big Tech lies in their respective narratives and goals. Walmart focuses on logistics and lower prices, while Big Tech presents themselves as revolutionary and socially conscious. This difference can be seen as influencing the rise of authoritarian populism and libertarianism as potential responses to perceived elitism and wokeness. However, it's important to note that these labels, such as libertarianism or authoritarianism, are not the only solutions and a nuanced approach that considers various perspectives is likely more effective. The funding and influence of universities and media play a significant role in shaping public discourse, and cutting off their financial resources could potentially limit their ability to promote certain ideologies. Ultimately, understanding the motivations and underlying factors behind these ideologies and movements is crucial for developing effective strategies to address them.

    • Impact of Culture on Fertility RatesDespite debates on the role of institutions, cultural factors significantly influence fertility rates. Historical examples suggest government intervention can impact culture, but finding effective solutions remains complex.

      While shrinking the role of institutions under the influence of bureaucrats and activists might be an option to address cultural concerns, it may not be enough. The impact of culture on individuals and society is complex and interconnected, making it challenging to isolate specific causes and solutions. Fertility, for instance, seems to be more related to cultural factors than economic ones. The government's ability to influence culture is debatable, but historical examples, such as civil rights laws, suggest that it is possible. China's successful handling of COVID-19 offers a potential model for addressing fertility rates, but finding an analogous solution in the West remains a challenge. Ultimately, the complexities of culture and its impact on individuals and society require a nuanced approach and ongoing dialogue.

    • Possible increase in China's fertility rate due to government measuresChina's authoritarian government's efforts to control COVID-19 could potentially boost fertility rate to 1.9 by 2031 through economic incentives or cultural propaganda, but unintended negative consequences are a concern.

      China's authoritarian government and its drastic measures to control the COVID-19 outbreak have opened up possibilities for the country to potentially achieve a fertility rate of 1.9 by 2031. This could be due to economic incentives or cultural propaganda. However, there is a concern that such efforts could have unintended negative consequences. The effectiveness of propaganda on different demographics is debated, with some arguing that smart people might be more susceptible to it, while others suggest the opposite. Historically, nationalistic sentiments have often originated among elites and spread to the masses. Overall, the impact of government initiatives to increase fertility on various demographics remains an open question.

    • Perspectives of Chinese and American Elites Shape Political IdeologiesChinese elites see competition with the US, while American elites see competition within their own society or nature. This influences their political ideologies and responses to propaganda. Libertarian strategy may involve polarization and taking over the Republican party, clarifying misconceptions, and emphasizing benefits.

      The dynamics between Chinese and American elites greatly influence their political ideologies and responses to propaganda. Chinese elites view themselves as competitors with the US, while American elites see themselves as competing with other Americans or nature. This difference in perspective may explain why the West has become more left-wing as it becomes more dominant, and why the rise of China may not have fully registered as a fundamental shift in people's outlook. Additionally, the structure of economic policies can significantly impact who benefits from certain initiatives. Regarding libertarian strategy, the next 20-30 years may see success through polarization and taking over the Republican party. Libertarian ideas may be unpopular, but by framing them as a solution to anti-wokeness and explaining their benefits, libertarians can reach a large number of people on the right. It's crucial to clarify misconceptions that libertarianism is responsible for negative trends and that conservatives have not fully embraced small government principles.

    • Embrace continuous learning and adaptationStay updated with latest trends and technologies, build strong networks, embrace challenges, and approach situations with a positive attitude and growth mindset.

      Key takeaway from our conversation with Richard is the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in the ever-evolving world of technology. He emphasized the significance of staying updated with the latest trends and technologies, and how it can lead to new opportunities and growth. Richard also shared insights on the importance of building a strong network and maintaining genuine relationships, which can open doors to collaboration and innovation. Lastly, he encouraged listeners to embrace challenges and failures as learning experiences, and to approach every situation with a positive attitude and a growth mindset. Overall, Richard's wisdom and experiences offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to succeed in their personal and professional endeavors.

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    Israel's Covert Diplomacy in the Middle East

    Israel's Covert Diplomacy in the Middle East
    This lecture explores Israel’s secret relations with its neighbors during the years 1948-2022. In order to survive in a hostile environment in the Middle East, Israeli decision makers developed a pragmatic regional foreign policy, designed to find ways to approach states, leaders and minorities willing to cooperate with it against mutual regional challenges (such as the Periphery Alliance with Iran and Turkey (until 1979), the Kurds, the Maronites in Lebanon, Jordan, Morocco, South Sudan and more). Contacts with these potential partners were mostly covert. The aim of this lecture, which is part of a new comprehensive book on Israel’s secret relations with its neighbors during the years 1948-2022 is two-fold: First, to offer a theoretical framework explaining the way Israel conducted its covert diplomacy; and second, to focus on several less-known episodes of such clandestine activity, such as Israel’s ties with Saudi Arabia and Gulf in general. The research is based on three types of sources: archival material (mainly Israeli, but also British and American); media (newspapers, Internet, etc.); and more than 100 personal interviews with leading Israeli officials involved in this secret activity in the Mossad, Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Intelligence. Elie Podeh is Bamberger and Fuld Professor in the History of the Muslim Peoples in the Department of Islamic and Middle East Studies, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He served as the Department Chair during the years 2004-2009, and President of the Middle East and Islamic Studies Association of Israel (MEISAI) during the years 2016-2022. Since 2011 he is Board Member of Mitvim – The Israeli Institute for Regional Foreign Policies. He has published and edited fourteen books and more than eighty academic articles in English, Hebrew and Arabic. His most recent book is Israel’s Secret Relations with States and Minorities in the Middle East, 1948-2020 (Hebrew, 2022; and English forthcoming).

    The Legacy of Henry Kissinger

    The Legacy of Henry Kissinger
    Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was viewed as brilliant by some and a war criminal by others. The only man to ever hold the jobs of National Security Advisor and Secretary of State at the same time died at his Connecticut home at the age of 100.

    NPR's Ailsa Chang talks to author and historian Jeremi Suri about Kissinger's complicated legacy.

    Listen to Throughline's deeper dive on Kissinger here.

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    #1391 - Tulsi Gabbard & Jocko Willink

    #1391 - Tulsi Gabbard & Jocko Willink

    Tulsi Gabbard is a 2020 Presidential Candidate of the Democratic Party and is currently serving as the U.S. Representative for Hawaii’s 2nd congressional district since 2013. https://www.tulsi2020.com/ 

    Jocko Willink is a decorated retired Navy SEAL officer, author of the book "Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win", and co-founder of Echelon Front, where he is a leadership instructor, speaker, and executive coach. His new book "Leadership Strategies and Tactics" will be available in January 2020.