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    • Discussing financial rewards and legal proceduresThe Capital One Venture X Card offers 2X miles on every purchase and premium travel benefits, while Kroger brand products provide affordable quality. Miranda rights, a fundamental aspect of criminal proceedings, can be waived and later invoked.

      The Capital One Venture X Card offers cardholders unlimited 2X miles on every purchase and premium travel benefits, while Kroger brand products provide proven quality at affordable prices. Elsewhere in the conversation, the hosts discussed the ubiquitous nature of Miranda rights in popular culture. Miranda rights, which include the right to remain silent, the right to an attorney, and the right to have an attorney appointed if unable to afford one, are a fundamental aspect of criminal proceedings in the United States. The hosts also noted that some agencies allow individuals to waive these rights and then invoke them again at a later time. Overall, the discussion touched on topics ranging from financial rewards for everyday purchases to civil rights and legal procedures.

    • History of Miranda RightsThe Miranda rights, derived from the Fifth Amendment, were formalized in 1966 after a man named Ernesto Miranda was not informed of his rights during police interrogation and confessed to a crime based on false information.

      The Miranda rights, which include the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney during police interrogations, have a history that dates back to 1966 with the landmark case Miranda vs. Arizona. However, these rights, which are guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment, have been in place since 1791. Prior to 1966, individuals were expected to know their constitutional rights. In the Miranda case, Ernesto Miranda was not informed of his rights during a police interrogation and ultimately confessed to a crime based on false information given by the police. This case led to the requirement that individuals be informed of their rights during police custody and interrogation. It's important to note that police are allowed to use deception during interrogations, but not when the individual is unaware of their right to remain silent.

    • Miranda Rights: Silence and Warnings During Police CustodyDuring custodial interrogation, individuals have the right to remain silent and be informed of this right. Failure to provide these warnings results in any subsequent confession being inadmissible as evidence in court.

      During custodial interrogation, individuals have the constitutional right to remain silent and be informed of this right before questioning. This is known as the Miranda rights. The Supreme Court ruled in 1966 that any confession obtained without these warnings is considered involuntary and cannot be used against the suspect in court. This applies because once a person is in police custody, they may be subjected to coercive tactics, such as deception. The Miranda decision established that the right against self-incrimination applies during custodial interrogation, and failure to provide these warnings results in any subsequent confession being inadmissible as evidence.

    • Understanding Custody and its ImplicationsLegal definitions of custody and perception of authority can impact our actions and freedoms. Understanding these nuances is crucial for effective marketing strategies.

      The Marketing School podcast, hosted by Neil Patel and Eric Sue, is a valuable resource for marketing and business knowledge. With impressive guest rosters of successful marketers and operators, the podcast provides insights from the trenches that can help businesses get ahead of their competition. The concept of custody was discussed, and while it's generally understood as a denial of complete freedom of action, the interpretation can be subjective. For instance, being handcuffed and in a locked police car is a clear example of custody, but the mere presence of a cop at your doorstep doesn't necessarily mean you're not free to leave. This discussion highlights the importance of understanding legal definitions and the perception of authority, and how they can impact our actions and freedoms. In summary, the Marketing School podcast offers practical marketing insights, and the conversation on custody serves as a reminder of the nuances in legal definitions and the power of perception.

    • Traffic stops: Not in custody but can't leaveDuring a non-custodial traffic stop, a confession can be used against you in court, but Miranda rights don't apply unless an arrest follows.

      During a traffic stop, you are not in custody but you cannot leave the scene, creating a gray area in the law. This means that if you confess to a crime during a non-custodial traffic stop, the confession can still be used against you in court. Additionally, if you are not read your Miranda rights during an arrest, the confession itself cannot be used as evidence, but any incriminating evidence discovered as a result of the confession can still be used. It is important to remember that the law can be complex, and the specifics of each situation can impact the application of these rules.

    • Balancing Individual Rights with Public SafetyDuring emergencies, law enforcement may deny Miranda rights to ensure public safety, but must read suspects their rights once the threat has been addressed.

      During emergency situations, law enforcement may deny individuals their Miranda rights for the sake of public safety. This was seen in the Boston bombing case where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was interrogated without being read his rights, leading to the discovery of additional bombs and crucial information. This exception to Miranda rights was established in the 1984 Supreme Court case New York v. Quarles, where a suspect was found with a gun at a crime scene and the gun evidence was later ruled inadmissible due to the Miranda violation. However, the Supreme Court overruled this decision, stating that securing the scene and ensuring public safety took priority over Mirandizing the suspect. Once the threat to public safety had been addressed, the suspect was then read their rights. This exception is a crucial aspect of balancing individual rights with public safety.

    • Public Safety Exemption and Balancing Individual RightsThe public safety exemption allows law enforcement to bypass Miranda rights in certain situations, but its use raises concerns about individual rights and the potential for misuse.

      The use of the public safety exemption to bypass Miranda rights in criminal investigations is a complex issue. While some argue that it is necessary to prevent potential harm to the public, others believe it infringes on individual rights. The Boston Marathon bombing case is an example where the confessions obtained after Miranda warnings were given were deemed unnecessary due to the strong evidence against the suspects. However, the repeated use of this exemption raises concerns about a potential pattern and the balance between public safety and individual rights. Ultimately, it is crucial for the legal system to ensure that these exceptions are used judiciously and not as a routine practice.

    • IHeartRadio Music Awards and Marketing School PodcastThe iHeartRadio Music Awards celebrated popular music and introduced new hits, while Marketing School offered valuable marketing insights from industry experts.

      The iHeartRadio Music Awards is a highly-anticipated event showcasing the year's most popular music and introducing new summer hits, featuring renowned artists such as Beyoncé, Justin Timberlake, Green Day, TLC, Jelly Roll, Lainey Wilson, and Tate McRae. Meanwhile, the Marketing School podcast, hosted by Neil Patel and Eric Sue, offers valuable insights and secrets from successful marketers and operators, making it a must-listen for those looking to enhance their marketing and business knowledge. Additionally, listeners showed appreciation with anniversary shout-outs and shared their unique connections to the show, such as Josh Underwood's theory that Wes Anderson's "Royal Tenenbaums" represents different stages of grief.

    • Exploring the value and enjoyment of fan theoriesFan theories offer unique perspectives, can be as valid as creators' intentions, and inspire excitement and collaboration in interpreting media

      Fan theories can provide unique perspectives on media content, often rivaling or complementing the intentions of the creators. Roy Tannenbaum from "The Royal Tenenbaums" can be seen as a character who lies and gambles to cover up his dishonesty, much like a fan theory that interprets events in a different way than intended by the creators. The discussion also touched upon the idea that fan theories can be as valid as the original intentions, making the interpretation of media a collaborative process. Additionally, the conversation highlighted the appeal of fan theories and the excitement of potentially discovering hidden meanings in media. The speakers also mentioned their personal interests, such as feral children and fan theories, showcasing the diverse range of topics that can inspire fan theories. Overall, the conversation emphasized the value and enjoyment that can come from exploring fan theories and interpreting media in new and creative ways.

    • New crispy tender wraps at Sonic for $1.99Sonic's new crispy tender wraps, priced at $1.99, offer crispy chicken tenders, bold flavors, and a satisfying meal. Valid at participating locations, but note tax isn't included.

      Sonic Drive-ins are offering new crispy tender wraps for a limited time at $1.99. These wraps come with crispy chicken tenders, bold flavors like hickory barbecue and cheesy baja, crisp lettuce, and melty cheese. It's a delicious and affordable option for customers looking for a satisfying meal. The wraps are not only crispy and tender but also packed with flavor. Sonic is inviting customers to wrap themselves up with some TLC (tender, love, and chicken) for under $2. However, it's important to note that tax is not included in the price and the offer is only valid at participating Sonic Drive-ins. So, if you're craving a delicious and affordable meal, head to Sonic and try out their new crispy tender wraps before the offer expires.

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    In 2003, Julie Baumer took her six-week-old nephew to the hospital after noticing he was fussy, lethargic, and refusing food. It kicked off a chain reaction that ended in Julie wrongfully serving four years behind bars after prosecutors erroneously claimed she violently shook her nephew, causing permanent brain damage.

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    Show Notes

    [00:17] Julie’s background and bio. Since her wrongful incarceration, Julie has since launched a career in real estate.

    [00:39] Welcome Julie Baumer and Sarah Miller to the show!

    [01:36] Julie, your story is heart breaking… for those who have not heard your story, we have to go back to the beginning. In 2003, your sister Victoria had a baby boy she could not take care of, correct?

    [02:15] You decided to adopt this baby and raise it as your own… can you take us back seventeen years and tell us what was going on?

    [02:46] What was going on in your life that you were able to take him? You were in your twenties, what were you doing for work?

    [03:50] Victoria agreed to this adoption?

    [04:04] The boy’s name was Phillip when he was born... and he wasn’t healthy at the beginning, was he?

    [05:04] You took the baby home after one week… was your sister involved at all at this point?

    [05:25] What happened in the four weeks between bringing Phillip home and taking him back to the hospital?

    [05:58] How did you find motherhood for those first weeks?

    [07:05] Around week five, what happened?

    [08:50] Who named the baby — was it you or your sister?

    [9:14] What happened in the ER at Mt. Clemens General?

    [11:50] Over the course of the weekend at the ER, a nurse noticed the circumference of Phillip’s head had grown at an alarming rate. They did an MRI and discovered brain bleeding and conducted surgery.

    [12:32] All weekend, how are you feeling with your newborn, soon-to-be-adopted son going through brain surgery?

    [13:20] Monday morning, the Macomb County Sheriff’s Office calls you?

    [13:55] Did they read you your Miranda Rights?

    [14:32] Did Phillip have any injuries in the four weeks you had him?

    [15:16] How many hours were you at the Sherriff’s Office?

    [16:18] You go to see your son at the hospital and aren’t let in by a security guard who tells you you’re a suspect. What’s going through your mind?

    [17:20] At any point throughout these months, did you talk to a lawyer?

    [18:17] Phillip was born in August… you got the call saying you were charged with first-degree child abuse in February… that’s seven months later.

    [18:46] The reason I’m asking a lot of this questions is I’m hoping people listening are learning. Anyone can be a potential juror or victim.

    [19:18] Nobody should talk to the police without a lawyer.

    [19:35] How did you find your criminal lawyer?

    [20:55] You were arraigned for first degree child abuse and pled not guilty… what happened next, how many months passed until your trial?

    [21:22] You were not sitting in jail that whole time, were you?

    [21:46] Who was your judge in Macomb County?

    [22:10] During these eighteen months, your lawyer is preparing a defense, allegedly?

    [23:50] Your attorney suggested you should hire experts which you couldn’t afford. So, he proceeded without them anyway, not knowing he could petition the judge…

    [24:16] If you can’t afford an expert when going against the state, the state will pay for an expert like they will pay for a court-appointed attorney.  

    [25:20] You weren’t allowed character witnesses?

    [26:49] How many days was your trial?

    [26:59] You called one witness on your behalf — what was her role in all this?

    [27:23] The trial lasted four weeks, and there were only two witnesses… what took so long?

    [28:05] By the time you got to trial, which is almost two years at this point, how was Phillip doing?

    [28:59] After this four-week trial, you’re not in custody, your family supports you… is Victoria around for any of this?

    [29:22] At any point, did the jury offer you a plea deal?

    [30:53] Playing Monday morning quarterback fifteen years later… the attorney didn’t present a defense on your behalf.

    [31:33] Your turned down the plea deal because you weren’t guilty, and the jury comes back guilty on one count. What goes through your head when you hear this?

    [33:13] You were co-raising your sister Victoria’s other son, Brandon, at this time. Was he living with you during this?

    [33:44] You thought that there was absolutely no way a jury would convict you… yet you sat through this four-week trial. You had to have known this wasn’t going well?

    [34:47] Phillip was diagnosed with cerebral palsy. The family believes Victoria was administered Pitocin during labor which caused his cerebral palsy. 

    [35:42] Did the attorney tell your story? That you took in your sister’s child because she couldn’t take care of him?

    [36:09] Sarah Miller was the jury foreman on Julie’s second trial. After it was over, they discovered that if they had any knowledge of Julie’s first trial, they weren’t allowed to participate in her second trial as to be unbiased. Julie’s second trial was a stark contrast to her first debacle of a trial.

    [37:30] When you were convicted, what was your sentence?

    [37:38] And the judge could have sentence you to a lot less.

    [38:31] Going to prison as an innocent woman, convicted of hurting a baby. Can you describe that?

    [40:33] What did you do to keep yourself busy?

    [41:12] Did you make any friends?

    [42:09] Did you feel threatened at any point?

    [42:41] While you were there, were you at the prison library, reading up on case law?

    [42:50] Who appealed your case the first time?

    [43:57] Eventually, the University of Michigan Innocence Clinic which opened in 2008 decided to take on Julie’s case. Based on new evidence, they requested a new trial which was accepted in 2009.

    [45:16] Were you in court when the judge made the decision for a new trial? Or were you in prison?

    [45:37] What’s going through your mind when you found out?

    [46:00] At this point, the Macomb County Prosecutor’s Office had the option of releasing you for time served or re-trying you. They chose the latter. Was that shocking to you?

    [47:31] The please they initially offered was for 1-2 years. You had already served for 4 years. That doesn’t make sense! They should have walked away!

    [48:09] Was Carl Marlinga the prosecutor when you were convicted the first time? Who was the prosecutor on the second trial?

    [49:13] Dave Moran, who runs the Innocence Clinic, hooked up with Carl Marlinga to represent you as one of your lawyers in the second trial…in the same courthouse where he used to be the prosecutor on your first case. That’s mind-blowing, how did that happen?

    [53:49] Second Trial was in 2010 and you so happened to have a fabulous jury foreman who happens to be sitting right here — Sarah Miller!

    [54:17] Had you ever sat on a jury before?

    [54:51] The first and second trials couldn’t have been more different. What was your impression of the trial?

    [56:08] As you’re listening to the prosecution witnesses, how convinced were you that Julie had hurt this baby?

    [56:42] Why, in your mind, did the prosecution witnesses hold more weight than the defense?

    [58:02] Julie, you had believed Phillip suffered cerebral palsy and brain bleeding from administration of Pitocin during labor… it turns out he had suffered a stroke, called a venous sinus thrombosis, correct?

    [59:10] Sarah, did you think that the stroke was a made-up defense?

    [1:00:25] How many days did the jury deliberate?

    [1:00:32] During the first go-around, how many guilty votes were there?

    [1:01:58] Sarah, we know your ultimate verdict was not guilty… take us through the two days of how the jury reached that decision.

    [1:04:15] A nurse on the jury asserted, from a medical perspective, that Phillip was not abused, which facilitated conversation amongst the jury.

    [1:05:38] Were you all confident when you came to the verdict?

    [1:06:45] “Reasonable doubt” exists to protect people from situations just like this.

    [1:08:11] Sarah, if someone listening is about to sit on a jury, what’s your message for them?

    [1:09:19] Julie, I can only imagine how it must have felt to hear “not guilty” the second time around. How did it feel?

    [1:11:03] Did you ever get an apology from Eric Smith?

    [1:11:54] Sarah, after all that, you must have been proud of yourself!

    [1:12:48] How did the two of you hook up after the trial?

    [1:14:50] You’ve been free for ten years… have you had any updates on Phillip?

    [1:18:48] There have been no run-ins or interactions with him and his adoptive parents since the trial?

    [1:19:23] Are you holding out hope that after he turns eighteen he might look you up?

    [1:19:37] How is your sister doing?

    [1:20:32] One of the craziest things in our legal system is that if you are imprisoned and released, you are a parolee — you have medical benefits, housing benefits, employment assistance, etc. If you go to prison and you’re wrongfully incarcerated, you’re a free person, but you get no benefits. Nothing.

    [1:22:03] Thank you both for being here, and I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Wishing you the best of luck.

    [1:22:46] Thank you for listening to Open Mike this week, with Julie Baumer and Sarah Miller.