Customer Confidential: Untold Stories of Earned Growth

How can businesses transcend traditional customer service boundaries to establish new customer experience benchmarks?

Stan Swinton, Founder and General Manager of NPSx, Bain & Company, discusses how a comprehensive approach to customer experience extends beyond gathering feedback or managing customer journeys.

Stan details Bain’s NPSx framework—comparable to a restaurant star rating, he says—which offers an extensive customer-centricity analysis via 60+ dimensions and eight pillars. Stan shares how this methodology motivates companies to strive for top-tier customer satisfaction.

We also discuss the Customer Experience Roadmap and Accreditation (CXRA). Stan highlights CXRA's effectiveness in uncovering inefficiencies and enhancing customer-employee synergies.

In addition, we explore why businesses frequently restrict their customer experience initiatives to areas such as feedback management, and discuss the essential role of Customer Experience Officers in achieving genuine customer centricity. Finally, we examine the constantly changing landscape of CX benchmarks and expectations, emphasizing the importance of a flexible and adaptive approach.

Guest: Stan Swinton, Founder and General Manager of NPSx, Bain & Company

Host: Rob Markey, Partner, Bain & Company

Time-stamped list of topics covered:

• [16:56] Role of CX: Stan highlights how the NPSx framework aids in defining company decision rights and categorizes 60 different jobs or dimensions to be coordinated.
• [17:50] Framework Pillars: Eight pillars provide a structured context for internal dialogue on improvement within organizations.
• [18:15] Framework applicability: The framework's relevance, even for companies that are just starting their CX journey or are less mature in their CX programs
• [19:19] Framework evolution and review: The living nature of the framework, with ongoing revisions and updates to standards and maturity scales to keep pace with current trends in customer centricity
• [20:10] Benchmarking and improvement: How clients sometimes feel dissatisfied with their initial ratings but are encouraged to view it as a journey toward improvement, similar to achieving restaurant rating stars in the culinary world
• [21:48] Identifying opportunities: How the framework allows organizations to identify their strengths and areas for improvement in customer experience

Time-stamped list of notable quotes:

• [04:49] “We would generally work with a company first to define their taxonomy. One of the things we recognize is a lot of different industries and clients have different ways of defining their experiences. But there are standards and there are best practices that we can bring to the table to help shape that taxonomy and definitions.”
• [7:28] “One of the things that we recognize at Bain is that a lot of practitioners didn't come from a CX background. There aren't a lot of degree programs dedicated to CX. And when we were looking at the market, we’d say, well, how can you train yourself as a CX practitioner?”
• [12:31] “Our framework has eight pillars: purpose and leadership, proposition management, customer value and lifecycle management, customer journey management, customer service management, customer feedback management, customer data management, and employee experience.”

Additional Resources:

• Bain article | The Elements of Value: Understanding the 30 elements of value for consumers can help companies gain an edge.
• HBR article | The Elements of Value: Measuring—and delivering—what consumers really want

Guest and Host Bio Links:

• Stan’s LinkedIn profile
• Rob Markey LinkedIn Profile

Give Us Feedback:

Help us enhance your podcast experience by providing feedback here.

Send a note to host Rob Markey: https://www.robmarkey.com/contact-rob

How does a global medical technology company maintain customer focus while managing operational challenges during a pandemic?

In this episode, Tony Ezell, executive vice president of North America and chief marketing officer for Becton, Dickinson and Company (BD), explores how integrating customer feedback into your business strategy can maintain—and even enhance—customer loyalty by helping shape business strategies that are both robust and responsive to evolving customer needs.

Tony outlines how customer loyalty and adaptability are essential strategic tools in healthcare innovation. Together, we explore how BD leveraged a customer-centric approach to skillfully navigate operational continuity and customer satisfaction.

We also take a short trip down memory lane to connect the dots from our chat with Tony a decade ago, exploring the ongoing impact of customer experience and Net Promoter Systems on Tony's evolving career trajectory and leadership style.

Guest: Tony Ezell, executive vice president of North America and chief marketing officer, Becton, Dickinson and Company

Episode Highlights

• Introduction and Tony Ezell's background [01:59]
• The balance of operational responsibilities and customer-centricity [04:53]
• Covid-19’s impact on customer loyalty at BD [05:50]
• Implementing customer feedback into business strategy [09:09]
• BD’s challenges and opportunities [12:09]
• Tony’s NPS work [15:07]
• Customer feedback scores [20:07]
• Partnerships [21:30]
• Connecting the dots between 2014 and today [26:22]
• Driving loyalty [27:46]

Quotable Quotes:

• "We have customers who were starting to decide whether they want to go away from us, who are now calling us to engage, to help them solve their problems again.” [01:19]
• “I always think about what drives loyalty, and do we know what drives loyalty? And are we actually delivering on the things that matter most to our customers, that drive loyalty? And that’s what we’re operating on now.” [04:33]
• “Our customers see us as one company, not as seven or nine different businesses. And now that we’ve done that, we’re starting to make improvements.” [12:38]

Additional Resources:

• Hear Tony’s 2014 podcast with Rob Markey: “Breaking Down the ‘Invisible Fence’”

Host: Rob Markey

Get in touch:

Send us your podcast feedback here.

Send Rob a note here.

How does an insurance industry leader integrate a simple yet profound question—Would you do that to your mom?—to transform customer service and decision making? In this episode, Richard Watts, board member at Farmers Insurance and former sales and service president at Progressive, discusses how asking this question improves business operations. He explores how this unique approach revolutionizes customer service and sets a new industry standard for empathy and customer focus.

Richard also shares insights into how this philosophy transformed internal practices, significantly influenced customer satisfaction and loyalty, and how it continues to shape his leadership and strategic decisions. We'll also revisit Richard's journey from biology to computer science and his shift toward customer-centric innovations in insurance.

Guest: Richard Watts, board member, Farmers Insurance

Episode Highlights

• Introduction and background [02:05]
• The genesis of the "Would You Do That to Your Mom?" philosophy [05:10]
• Reflections on the evolution of customer service in insurance [11:25]
• How empathy drives customer loyalty and business success [14:15]
• Challenges and triumphs in embedding this into organizational culture [18:30]
• The ongoing influence of this approach in Richard's career [22:45]
• Balancing data-driven strategies with ethical considerations [25:50]

Quotable Quotes:

“There isn't a single business initiative or change program that people don't say has to be CEO-led or have the CEO's blessing.” [21:19]

“Having someone out there to take the machete and, hack through the jungle of all these processes, being able to go there and say, ‘Okay, we need real-time processing. We can't live with these batch systems anymore.” [22:30]

Host: Rob Markey

Get in touch:

Send us your podcast feedback here.

Send Rob a note here.

How do the needs of students at for-profit, mostly online colleges differ from those of typical college students? They often require financial aid, schedule flexibility, and academic support that can go far beyond the norm of traditional higher education. In this segment, we explore why graduation rates have traditionally been quite low at these colleges due to all the challenges students face. How do schools like this strike an appropriate balance of flexibility, support, and rigorous academic programs that will help their students succeed in the workforce?

Ruth Veloria is the chief strategy officer and customer officer at the University of Phoenix. She is on a mission to help more of the school’s students successfully overcome challenges so they can complete their studies and reap the rewards of their education. Ruth and the team at University of Phoenix have spent over a decade working to improve student retention and success rates.

In this episode, roughly a decade after Ruth first joined Rob on the podcast, she shares how the University of Phoenix has achieved a remarkable increase in student retention rates, from 64% to 74%. They now graduate over a third more students than they did 10 years ago. Ruth discusses how the Net Promoter System helped fuel the university’s deep commitment to learning from and acting on student feedback. She describes academic policies that are empathetic versus unempathetic, and how data analysis and feedback have been used to enhance student experience and to support policy and process change.

Episode Highlights:

• Overview of a subscription-like model for student enrollment [03:15]
• Transition of Ruth from the School of Business to strategy and customer experience leadership [07:10]
• Approaches to student retention and success [11:45]
• Utilizing data analytics and technology to improve student outcomes [16:25]
• Adapting to Covid-19: Impact on student experience and education delivery [20:55]
• Insights into student acquisition costs and orientation processes [25:30]
• Reflections on the implementation and evolution of the Net Promoter System [30:15]
• Ruth’s advice for educational transformation and future goals [35:00]

Quotable Quotes:

• “We went from a 59 Net Promoter Score up to a 73 Net Promoter Score.” [16:33]
• “We created a lot of entrepreneurs. We got a lot of people excited about changes they could make in the student experience.” [24:19]
• “We actually set up a pilot team that was using a business leader and tech leader to come together to fix application problems. In fact, we still have that today.” [25:06]

Guest: Ruth Veloria, chief strategy officer and customer officer, University of Phoenix

Host: Rob Markey

Get in touch:

Send us your podcast feedback here.

Send Rob a note here.

How do high-quality NPS benchmarks unlock strategic priorities and initiatives? What if your NPS data seems highly counterintuitive? For example, what if Detractors seem to be more loyal than Promoters?

Host Rob Markey and Jason Barro, a partner at Bain & Company and the leader of Bain's NPS Prism benchmarking service, unpack this situation in the airline industry. It’s an illustration of how Net Promoter Score benchmark data might be misleading when not all customers have the freedom to choose, revealing the nuanced understanding required to transform raw data into strategic business insights.

Jason and Rob use this example to explore some of the ways a sophisticated knowledge of how customers buy, the choices they have available, and how a market’s competitive dynamics inform the interpretation of customer loyalty benchmarks like NPS.

Episode Highlights:

1. Introduction to Jason and NPS Prism [01:02]
2. Using NPS Data for Market Insight [02:05]
3. Exploring the complexity of NPS in different industries [05:12]
4. Concept of Trapped Customers [10:17]
5. Earned Growth Strategies [23:52]
6. Banking and Insurance Customer Dynamics [27:22]

Quotable Quotes:

“The more captive you are, the more likely you are to give high share of wallet to somebody that you don't like very much.” [15:53] - Rob Markey

“One of the effects we see in the Prism data for airlines more broadly is that high frequent travelers are happier than low frequent travelers.” [18:06] - Jason Barro

“You can see this strategy of, ‘Earn the respect and happiness of your customers,’ is a path to profitable growth, and you can see…just how much it actually matters.” - Jason Barro [23:28]

Additional Resources:

NPS Prism by Bain & Company

Net Promoter System Overview

Listen to Jason’s earlier podcast, NPS Prism: The Source for True, Deep NPS Insights

Bios

Jason Barro

Rob Markey

Get in touch:

Send us your podcast feedback here.

Send Rob a note here.

Give us feedback.

From reshaping the playful culture of a global toy company to cracking the customer-centricity code at Zurich Insurance, how did Conny Kalcher manage the leap?

Conny Kalcher, now the group chief customer officer at Zurich Insurance, has a rich history of pioneering customer-centric transformations. Conny introduced a swath of fresh perspectives and approaches to the more traditional environment of Zurich Insurance. She did this not long after retiring from a rewarding career at LEGO, where she helped a customer-centric transformation. Her influence transcends the boundaries of any one company, partly a result of her active participation in Bain's NPS Loyalty Forum, where she has made large contributions to the ongoing Net Promoter System movement. For context to today’s discussion, you might want to listen to her conversation with Rob Markey in episode 55, Brick by Brick.

In this episode, Rob and Conny delve into her remarkable journey from the playful and imaginative domain of toys to the structured and staid sphere of the insurance business. Conny's customer engagement methodology breaks industry molds. She draws parallels and contrasts between her long career in an organization selling toys made of stackable bricks and her new role in a complex global behemoth selling insurance policies and managing financial and operational risk. Conny’s anecdotes reveal that most of the principles behind understanding and catering to customer needs are universal, regardless of the specific type of customer or product. As Conny reminisces about her time in the toy industry, she sheds light on how the lessons learned there acted as a catalyst for nurturing a customer-first culture at Zurich Insurance. It illustrates how a keen understanding of customer sentiments can be a game-changer in any industry.

Topics covered:

1. Transition from the LEGO Group to Zurich Insurance [02:20]
2. Customer-centric transformation [04:00]
3. Corporate strategy and vision [06:50]
4. Metric implementation (NPS) [07:07]
5. Decentralized vs. centralized organizational structures [11:00]
6. Earning customer loyalty [24:30]

Quotable quotes:

1. "Anybody who needs to change something I would definitely advise to also think about, 'How can we do processes, structures, ways of working to make people naturally change,' because people want to do the right thing, basically." [01:45]
2. "We've defined our strategy for this strategic cycle to become the preferred insurer of our customers. So, it's all about earning the loyalty of those customers." [27:15]
3. "My proudest moment in the Zurich [Insurance] journey is when I go to the local offices and I talk to the people there and I see the fire in their eyes, and I see the new brand on the walls, and they talk in a new kind of language that they didn’t use to talk in." [32:37]

Additional resources:

1. Zurich Insurance’s long-term strategy and near-term targets
2. Episode 55 of Customer Confidential Podcast: Brick by Brick: Rebuilding the LEGO Group by Rediscovering Customer Centricity
3. Net Promoter System overview
4. Insurance industry reports by Bain & Company

Bios:

• Conny Kalcher, group chief customer officer at Zurich Insurance
• Rob Markey

Host Rob Markey welcomes Mark Slatin, CEO of EmpoweredCX, to dissect the intricate dynamics of trust within customer experiences. Drawing insights from real-world examples, they explore the role of product and service quality in establishing trust, the impact of reliability and consistency in decision making, and the potential pitfalls of self-orientation. Delving deeper into the Trust Equation and explaining its different facets, Mark underscores the necessity of understanding the customer’s journey and perspective. They address the challenges of reliability, targeted marketing implications, customer vs. company centricity, the art of meaningful recommendations, and more. And they explore how to balance customer needs with shareholder expectations. Mark also provides an analytical perspective on the integral components of trust in a business landscape.

In this show, Rob and Mark discuss the Trust Equation, which you can learn more about here:

https://trustedadvisor.com/why-trust-matters/understanding-trust/understanding-the-trust-equation 

https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/trust-equation

Guest: Mark Slatin, CEO of EmpoweredCX

In this episode, we launch our new show name: The Customer Confidential Podcast. We chose it after seeking lots of listener and guest input and believe that the new name better reflects the show’s mission—namely, to delve into untold stories of customer and industry transformations, sharing the journeys of both well-known and unsung heroes of customer centricity. We also seek out deep conversations with the thought leaders who inspire the best practitioners. 

Also, in this episode, which also marks our 10th anniversary, host Rob Markey welcomes back frequent guest (and Rob’s longtime mentor) Fred Reichheld, Bain fellow and founder of Bain's Loyalty practice. Rob and Fred trace the evolution of Fred’s earned growth rate concept from its roots in Fred’s early work on customer retention at Bain. They unravel the intricacies of customer-centric metrics and how they have changed. They note the impact of genuine referrals vs. those that are bought and differentiate between earned and purchased growth. Importantly, they acknowledge and explore challenges in quantifying earned growth and how some companies have begun to tackle them successfully.

Guest: Fred Reichheld, Bain fellow, founder of Bain’s Loyalty practice, and author of Winning on Purpose: The Unbeatable Strategy of Loving Customers

How do you measure patient experience and empathy within the healthcare industry in a way that truly captures real emotion and real experiences?

Dr. Adrienne Boissy, guest staff neurologist at Cleveland Clinic and chief medical officer at Qualtrics, sits down with Rob Markey to discuss the need for a more comprehensive approach to capturing the patient experience. She also shares how healthcare professionals and caregivers alike can leverage compassion and self-empathy to better manage the often hard-to-handle career moments such as helping colleagues, patients, and their families process challenges together.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about Adrienne, visit her LinkedIn.

How can an organization’s passion for high-quality culinary delights forge unbreakable customer bonds? For food wholesaler METRO’s customers, buying food is a personal experience. It’s the art of witnessing, inhaling, savoring, and examining the produce, meat, and fish in the store—a sensory feast that leaves customers’ hearts full.

Creating exceptional fresh-food buying experiences is METRO’s mission. In this episode, guest Peter Gries, customer and sales officer at METRO, and Rob Markey discuss why the company values its diverse customer segments. Peter also shares an insider’s perspective on the change journey transforming the company’s relationship with its customers.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about Peter, you can find him on LinkedIn.

With an array of streaming platforms and the same amount of time in the day, getting an accurate read on where your customers spend their screen time has never been more important. And this shift in customer behavior has been particularly challenging for companies that rely on traditional ways to collect data on their customers.

In this episode, guest David Kenny, chairman and CEO of Nielsen, and Rob Markey discuss the impact streaming has had on Nielsen’s business, how the company is evolving to meet new challenges, and how strategic innovation fosters customer trust.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about David, you can find him on LinkedIn.

In a digital-first environment, successful brands stay ahead of the curve by prioritizing agility and experimentation. Instead of merely solving problems, they drive innovative solutions to eliminate—not just mitigate—customer pain points to achieve a seamless and exceptional customer experience.

In this episode, guest Joe Wheeler, CEO of CX/Digital, and Rob Markey discuss how successful brands bridge the gap between human and digital experiences and the significance of agility and experimentation as tools for achieving successful digital transformations.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here.

You can order Joe’s new book, The Digital-First Customer Experience, here.

If you’d like to learn more about Joe, you can find him on LinkedIn.

What makes people recommend your brand and services to others? Winning referrals are more than just a marketing channel; they’re a way to turn prospects into lifelong customers through word-of-mouth advocacy based on authenticity and trust.

In this episode, guest Andy Cockburn, CEO and cofounder of Mention Me, and Rob Markey discuss the effectiveness of trust-based referrals, how to integrate advocacy into company culture to unlock the transformative potential of referrals, and how data-driven approaches can optimize referrals’ effectiveness.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about Andy, you can find him on LinkedIn.

In this episode, Ben Reason, CEO and founder of Livework, and Rob Markey discuss how, by taking consumers’ needs and emotions into account, design can create products and services that are both functional and emotionally appealing, making consumer experiences more enjoyable.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about Ben, you can find him on LinkedIn.

How can companies get revenue forecasting and value creation right? By slowing down.

Michael Mauboussin, head of Consilient Research at Counterpoint Global, Morgan Stanley Investment Management, and Rob Markey discuss the metrics and methods businesses can use to grow their long-term value.

Make sure to listen to part two.

·        Get your copy of Michael’s book, Expectations Investing, here.

·        Read Michael’s Harvard Business Review article “The True Measures of Success” here.

·       Read more from Michael about the economics of customer business here.

If you’d like to learn more about Michael, you can find him on LinkedIn.

To offer feedback or share ideas about the show, please fill out our survey here. 

Investing in customer happiness can be the surest way to high Net Promoter Scores. But how do you accomplish that while maintaining a healthy business?

Michael Mauboussin, head of Consilient Research at Counterpoint Global, Morgan Stanley Investment Management, and Rob Markey discuss how expectations investing impacts valuations and business growth. The two also share insights on how companies can build a long-term investment strategy that can withstand changes in the market while attracting and retaining loyal customers.

Get your copy of Michael’s book, Expectations Investing, here.

If you’d like to learn more about Michael, you can find him on LinkedIn.

If you’d like to offer feedback or share ideas about the show, please fill out our survey here. 

In this episode, guest Allison Hartsoe, managing director of customer and growth at EY and author of The Age of Customer Equity, and Rob Markey discuss calculating customer lifetime value, why understanding customer behavior generates more accurate revenue forecasts, and how to develop a high-quality approach to customer equity.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about Allison, you can find her on LinkedIn.

In this episode, guest Stacy Sherman, founder of Doing CX Right, and Rob Markey discuss the importance of understanding the customer's perspective when you're trying to transform the customer experience, managing high-stakes CX for an elevator and escalator business, and why companies should consider journey mapping as a strategic tool to address consumer pain points head-on.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here. 

If you’d like to learn more about Stacy, you can find her on LinkedIn.

In this episode, guest Peter Pizzi, director of customer experience and insights at Analog Devices, and Rob Markey discuss how to focus an organization on customer feedback–based actions, the role of customer experience in tackling sales challenges, and how to make sure the improvements customers are asking for make their way onto product and functional leaders’ agendas.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here.

If you’d like to learn more about Peter, you can find him on LinkedIn.

In this episode, guest Andreas Heckmann, executive vice president of product engineering and head of customer solution support and innovation at SAP, and Rob Markey discuss the past, present, and future of cloud innovation as it relates to machine learning, artificial intelligence, organizational and customer challenges and opportunities, and cost savings.

If you’d like to provide feedback on the show, please fill out our survey here.

If you’d like to learn more about Andreas, you can find him on LinkedIn.