Denizen

In this episode we build on the two part series on consensual non-monogamy by discussing modern family structures and the work underway to support them.

Our guests, Alexander Chen and Health Schechinger are both doing remarkable work in this field.

In this conversation we discuss:

• The relationship between consensual non-monogamy and the LGBTQ+ movement
• What family means
• Why this is a civil right issue
• Legal work underway to support nondyadic partnerships
• The research agenda
• Why this is relevant for systemic change more broadly

Resources:

• Modern Family Institute
• Polyamory Legal Advocacy Coalition

In this episode Jenny and Jessica discuss:

• The neurochemisty of lust, attraction, and love
• Consensual non-monogamy (CNM) and social justice: punitive vs. restorative vs. transformational models
• How CNM helps us surface and heal trauma and attachment issues
• How CNM teaches us to change dominant paradigms and stories within us
• Why CNM leads to a change in consciousness and evolution of the self
• How embarking on a CNM journey is similar to climbing Mt Everest

Resources:

• Polysecure, by Jessica Fern
• Polywise by Jessica Fern
• Love, Actually: The science behind lust, attraction, and companionship
• Our Models of Justice are Perpetuating Injustice Jenny's Blog Post
• We Will Not Cancel Us: And Other Dreams of Transformative Justice by adrienne maree brown
• Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows

In this conversation Jenny and Robert discuss:

• What the optimal zone is and how it relates to our nervous system
• What the defensive zone is and how it relates to our nervous system
• How our triggers are amplified by past trauma, agitation from other events of the day, and chronic stress
• How we can break the cycle of reflexive response when we are triggered and develop new patterns to become less triggered next time
• The notion of optimal zone hygiene, and practices we can employ to stay in our optimal zone
• Optimal zone first aid; i.e. things we can do in groups as preparation to better respond when someone is triggered
• Healing, particularly with respect to intergenerational trauma
• How this conversation fits into Robert's course at the Context Institute, Bright Future Now

In this episode Jenny and Jessica cover:

• The prevalence of infidelity and divorce
• Issues with the modern love story and codependency
• What is love?  Ideas from bell hooks and Daniel Schmachtenberger
• What consensual non monogamy (CNM) is
• Different variations CNM can take depending on emotional and physical exclusivity
• Why people practice CNM
• Best practices: defining your why
• Best practices: defining your what
• Hierarchy
• Transparency
• CNM and attachment theory: the difference between structural and statistical security

References

• Polysecure, by Jessica Fern
• Polywise by Jessica Fern
• all about love by bell hooks
• "What Loving You Means To Me" by Daniel Schmactenberger

In this essential episode, Jenny discusses stakeholder capitalism with Jasper van Brakel, CEO of RSF Social Finance. This is one of the most important topics of the Denizen inquiry, as it tees up true economic reform where profit is put in service of purpose.

In this conversation Jenny and Jasper cover stakeholder capitalism comprehensively:

• Defining stakeholder capitalism and differentiating between stakeholder economics
• Outlining key ideas from classical economics to neoliberalism to today's shift to stakeholder driven models
• Trends driving stakeholder capitalism
• Metrics and B Corps
• Public Benefit Corps
• Board Representation
• Co-ops
• Employee Trusts
• Perpetual Purpose Trusts
• Foundation Owned Companies
• Capital Constraints
• Philosophical questions

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Resources

Jasper's writings

• Everyone talks about the E and the S, but we need to talk more about the G
• Want to wring impact from ESG? Look to governance
• Momentum gathers for a mission-first business model revolution
• Welcome to the Era of Regenerative Finance

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Jenny's Medium posts

• Accelerating Stakeholder Capitalism
• Taming the Evolutionary Beast
• The Friedman Doctrine, Revisited

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The regenerative story starts with single core idea: we can use the universal principles underlying stable, healthy, and sustainable living and nonliving systems throughout the real world as a model for economic-system design.

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After 20 years on Wall Street, John Fullerton embarked on an intellectual journey that led him to formulate his ideas around regenerative economics. In this conversation Jenny and John discuss the meaningful influences in John's thinking, his views on why neoclassical economics is fundamentally flawed, the eight principles of regenerative capitalism, how his ideas relate to more dominant forms of economic reform, and the Capital Institute's course on Regenerative Economics, which John describes as more of an awakening than a course.

Post Growth Institute's Donnie Maclurcan returns to the Denizen podcast with an important follow up to one of our most popular episodes, Post Growth Economics. Here Donnie reiterates on why capitalism is fundamentally flawed, outlines what is working around the world today, and explains his theory of change for how we evolve to an economy that is regenerative, just, and circular.

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Outline for the conversation:

• Donnie's definition of capitalism [2:24]
• Capitalism, extraction, and exploitation [6:34]
• Debt and why capitalism is fundamentally inequitable [9:06]
• Why wealth taxes are not the answer [15:47]
• The role of profit in a post capitalist market economy [19:16]
• Examples of post capitalist organizations operating today [26:03]
• Various governance models and entity types [27:33]
• Investment and ownership in a post capitalist economy [28:37]
• IKEA and Bosch as examples of a successful global post growth company [30:18]
• Examples in the financial sector [36:24]
• Why certified B-Corps and public benefit corporations are not enough [38:04]
• Why changing where you bank is one of the highest leverage things you can do [40:11]
• Influences from Gandhian economics and Vinoba Bhave [49:40]
• Moving capital, labor, attention out of the extractive economy [50:22]

This episode comes along side of the launch of Tobias Rose-Stockwell's book Taming The Outrage Machine: How Technology Amplifies Discontent, Disrupts Democracy -- And What We Can Do About It. Tobias is an author, designer, and media researcher who has been working at the forefront of this topic for many years.

By investigating media's role in information flows throughout history, Tobias' book brings clarity and fresh insights to the role social media plays in society today. In this conversation Jenny and Tobias distill the book's most salient points for the Denizen audience.

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Outline of the discussion:

• The role of outrage in democratic governance [4:00]
• Technological disruptions and the dark valley [10:04]
• Martin Luther and the printing press [10:52]
• The impact of the first advertising based newspaper [14:04]
• The advent of modern journalism [18:16]
• The relationship between distribution costs and editorial incentives [22:10]
• Television and the impact of repealing the Fairness Doctrine [23:45]
• The role of human psychology and cognitive biases [27:17]
• The three design features that changed everything: the algorithmic feed [31:09]
• The three design features that changed everything: social metrics [33:54]
• The three design features that changed everything: the one click share [37:13]
• Economic incentives and multi-polar traps[41:47]
• The role of government and design vs. content level regulation [43:41]
• Hope from a historical example: radio [48:54]
• Intervention points: the individual [53:52]
• Intervention points: social media platforms [56:06]
• Intervention points: policy [59:57]
• A word of caution about decentralized social media [1:01:41]
• The speed of technological progress vs. the speed of regulatory response [1:03:10]

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Sociocracy is a form of governance that utilizes content-based decision making in small groups. By delegating authority to the handful of people who are responsible for executing on the related work, power is distributed more broadly throughout organizations. In a consent based model, everyone takes responsibility for decisions made by the group.

This conversations covers essential things you need to know to understand this progressive governance model:

• What is sociocracy? [3:08]
• Sociocracy and egalitarianism [4:29]
• Types of organizations that sociocracy is a fit for [5:57]
• History of sociocracy [7:06]
• Consensus vs. consent-based decision making [8:31]
• Sociocracy and rapid prototyping [10:58]
• Circle aim and composition [13:15]
• Optimal number of people for consent-based decision making [15:14]
• Determining who is in a circle [16:47]
• Circles, domains, and mapping circles across an organization [18:02]
• Linking circles [20:52]
• Leaders vs. delegates [21:46]
• Information flows: double links, prototyping, and voice [22:43]
• Sociocracy and representation: who is in the circle and creating accountability [25:03]
• Consent vs. autocratic and democratic decision making [28:21]
• Revisiting decisions [30:34]
• Limitations of sociocracy : the people [31:59]
• Limitations of sociocracy: information flows at scale [34:44]
• Limitations of sociocracy: current legal structures and the current economic paradigm [36:24]
• Determining what decisions a circle is responsible for [37:35]
• Sociocracy, DAOs, and Web3 [39:03]
• Scale and voice vs. decision making [41:12]
• Sociocracy and trust [42:18]
• Nonvoilent communication and sociocracy [44:36]
• Current state of sociocracy in practice [46:50]

Long-term capitalism is one of our most foundational topics. We investigate how we might instantiate a variation of capitalism that optimizes over longer time horizons that a quarter, which is the form of capitalism that dominates the public market.

Michelle Green, founding employee, President Emeritus, Board member and Interim CEO of the Long Term Stock Exchange joins us for this foundational conversation. We discuss long-term capitalism at a macro level and delineate how policy makers, investors, and business leaders can put in place measures to institutionalize long-term decision making.

Outline of the episode:

• What long-term capitalism isn't [3:23]
• Drivers of the emergence of quarterly capitalism [4:58]
• Defining long-term capitalism [7:29]
• Trends relating to long-term capitalism [9:57]
• Narratives vs. reality [11:29]
• Drivers of the decline in pubic companies over the past 30 years [13:51]
• Post-pandemic trends in stakeholder capitalism and ESG [16:14]
• Buybacks, short-termism, and extraction [17:58]
• Policy measures to address buybacks [20:07]
• Other policy approaches for long-term capitalism [24:22]
• Long-term capitalism and corporate governance [26:00]
• How companies can incentivize long-term investment [29:02]
• Long Term Stock Exchange (LTSE) [36:21]
• Parallels between LTSE and certification [39:59]
• Information dynamics and the signalling value of LTSE [40:46]
• LTSE's choice to be a principles vs. standards based exchange [41:27]
• LTSE's five principles [43:40]
• Principle one: stakeholders [43:45]
• Principle two: strategy [46:15]
• Principle three: compensation [47:04]
• Principle three: Board of Directors [48:17]
• Principle three: investors [48:40]
• Establishing a research base for long-term capitalism [49:54]
• LTSE's ecosystem level approach [51:37]
• What Michelle is seeing in the current moment [54:10]
• LTSE and the technology industry [58:11]
• Limitations to the LTSE's success [1:00:08]
• Alignment with long-term capitalism and social objectives [1:04:57]

Resources:

• Denizen's research summary on long-term capitalism
• Michelle's TED Talk on the Long Term Stock Exchange
• Principles of Corporate Governance, Business Roundtable 2016
• "Short Termism Is Harming The Economy" Warren Buffet and Jamie Dimon, Wall Street Journal June 2018

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On the heels of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman's testimony before Congress, we are releasing this important conversation from 2021. Jenny sits down with Stanford political science professors Rob Reich, Jeremy Weinstein, and Nate Persily to interrogate big tech's role in society. How did we get to where we are today? What interventions in the near term, from creating new ethical norms to putting in place more democratic forms of corporate governance to regulation, might we pursue to bring big tech into better alignment with our collective social objectives?

Outline for the conversation:

• Rob's summary of their book System Error: Where Big Tech Went Wrong and How We Can Reboot [4:40]
• Comments on Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg's control of the company [6:40]
• Silicon Valley's influence on Stanford [8:33]
• Jeremy and Rob's intervention on campus [9:20]
• Why technology companies generate social harms with new technology [13:12]
• Drivers of the loose regulatory environment for technology [16:41]
• The regulatory environment of the US vs. the EU [18:53]
• Issues with the dominant mindsets of Silicon Valley [21:29]
• Regulating tech vs. other markets [25:07]
• Solutions: new corporate governance and ethics [30:36]
• Addressing barriers to regulatory solutions: corporate capture [32:50]
• Addressing barriers to regulatory solutions: pace of technology vs. pace of regulation [32:50]
• Need for transparency for better accountability [39:57]
• Ideas for corporate governance with public accountability [41:52]
• Addressing big tech amidst misaligned market incentives [44:46]
• Interrogating WhatApp vs. Signal re: social alignment [47:56]
• Role of competition in enabling social driven usage [50:22]
• Importance of regulatory reform to enable more competition [53:24]
• Pushing back on non-profit motives vs. more democratic forms of governance [54:01]
• The importance of spiritual and cultural pluralism [55:12]
• Integrating immediate and long term approaches [57:32]

In this episode Jenny sits down with Jim Rutt and Jordan Hall, founders of the Game B movement, to understand it's history and main tenets. Jim and Jordan have thought deeply about many facets of the Denizen inquiry, this conversation dives into many core concepts related to social and institutional redesign.

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• The genesis of Game B [3:05]
• Defining complexity science [4:04]
• Epistemology and epistemic modesty [5:26]
• Jim's original paper the Root Doc [5:49]
• The Stanton meetings and establishing a political party [7:01]
• Evolving from The Emancipation Party to Game B [9:06]
• Defining Game B [12:23]
• The dissolution of the original Game B cohort / shifting to "spore mode" [12:38]
• Main tenets of Game B [16:02]
• Design and design principles [23:04]
• Collective intelligence and technology in Game B [24:23]
• Governance, scale, and Dunbar's number [28:55]
• The importance of protocols [36:56]
• Game A's scaling advantage and self terminating nature [38:40]
• Upgrading humans in Game B with psycho technologies [42:42]
• Where Game B is now [52:20]
• How a Game B transition might take place [1:00:27]
• The relationship between theory and practice [1:03:39]
• Permaculture vs. Game B [1:11:13]
• The Circular Economy vs. Game B [1:12:04]
• Game B and Economic Growth [1:13:32]

Resources

• The Game B wiki
• Rebel Wisdom episode "The Story of Game B"
• The Jim Rutt Show
• Game B Facebook group

In this episode Jenny sits down with three leaders in the regenerative movement: John Fullerton, Founder of the Capital Institute and champion of Regenerative Capitalism; Hunter Lovins, pioneer in the sustainability movement and author of Natural Capitalism; and Joon Yun, philanthropist and advocate of inclusive stakeholding. Each have been guests on various topics within the Denizen inquiry: Regenerative Capitalism, Natural Capitalism, and Inclusive Stakeholding. Each of them mentioned the importance of narratives shifts in their individual discussions, so this conversation brings them together to explore the new narratives that are needed for systems change.

John, Hunter and Joon are joined by four creatives within the Denizen community who share reflections from their work in various mediums. Recording artist Alex Ebert of Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, visual artist Ben Von Wong, actor Ryan Caldwell, and filmmaker James Krisel. This is a wide ranging and provocative conversation intended to inspire new narratives for cultural change.

In this conversation Jenny, John, Hunter, Joon, Alex, Ben, Ryan and James discuss:

• Introductory framing [3:08]
• John's reflections on regenerative captialism's role in crafting new narratives [4:36]
• Hunter's reflections [11:00]
• Joon's reflections on storytelling and inclusive stakeholding [17:40]
• Inclusive stakeholding and regenerative capitalism principles: empowered participation [27:12]
• Reasons for hope wrt new narratives [31:49]
• Thoughts from Alex Ebert of Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros [35:43]
• Thoughts from visual artist Ben Von Wong [37:30]
• Reflections from Ryan Caldwell, actor; the importance of story [40:17]
• The necessity of vision [43:26]
• Reflections from James Krisel, filmmaker [46:14]
• Analogies with human aging [48:11]
• Overcoming tribalism [52:38]

Resources:

• "Regenerative Capitalism: How Universal Principles and Patterns Will Shape Our New Economy", John Fullerton
• Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution, Paul Hawken, Hunter Lovins, and Amory Lovins
• A Finer Future: Creating an Economy in Service to Life, Hunter Lovins, Anders Wijkman, Stewart Wallis, and John Fullerton‍
• Interdependent Capitalism: Redesigning the Social Contract through Inclusive Stakeholding, Joon Yun, Jeremy Yun, Conrad Yun‍
• Essays on Inclusive Stakeholding Joon Yu, Eric Yun, and Conrad Yun‍
• Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge, and the Teachings of Plants., Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Thomas Berry‍
• Grunch of Giants, Buckminster Fuller
• Donella Meadows
• Neuromancer, William Gibson
• Alex Ebert
• Ben Von Wong‍
• The Stubborn Optimist's Guide, Center for Humane Technology's Your Undivided Attention episode with Christiana Figueres

Donnie Maclurcan returns in this episode to discuss the radical, embodied practices he employs as Executive Director of the Post Growth Institute. Learn how PGI uses an asset-based approach, sociocratic governance, and lean processes to create trust, safety, and virtuous cycles. Recorded live in San Francisco, Donnie and Jenny discuss PGI's cutting edge practices such as silent meetings, a long hiring process, a policy of "no shit work", rest week, defining ones own pay rates, and much more. It's a provocative, eye opening conversation that should not be missed.

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Covered in this episode:

• Origin story of the Post Growth Institute [2:28]
• PGI's asset based approach [5:37]
• How PGI employs being over doing [11:53]
• Silent meetings [16:02]
• No shit work [19:33]
• Starting meetings [23:39]
• Embodied response [27:19]
• Defining one's own pay rates [30:35]
• Harmony restoration [34:44]
• Rest week [38:44]
• Sociocracy and decision making at PGI [30:05]

Resources:

• Appreciative Inquiry
• The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible, Charles Eisenstein
• Sociocracy for All

This episode is a little different than most, we’re not exploring a single topic.  Instead we discuss Elena’s expansive work as it relates to our inquiry. This conversation ties to so many episodes to date: Change from Within with Bobby Klein, Nonviolent Communication, Beyond the Enlightenment, Liberatory Technology, and Parenting, just to name a few.  Elena  helps us weave them together under the banner of our personal practices.

We discuss her upcoming book, Softening Time, how nonviolent communication has helped her learn self compassion, her recent devotion to Zen Buddhism, her decision to become sober ten years ago,  lessons from parenting, her course on living intentionally, and the importance of community.

Resources:

• Elena's website: https://elenabrower.com/
• Softening Time, Elena's substack
• The Kind Teacher, the company offering the micro dosing protocol Elena recently did

Our guests for this episode are Aden Van Noppen, Davion Ziere, and Sará King, the team behind Mobius. With historical and current advisors such as Jack Kornfield, Dr. Angel Acosta, and Krista Tippet, Mobius's mission is to activate a tech ecosystem focused on healing and well being. Mobius' work prioritizes support for Black, Brown, Indigenous, queer, youth, and others who are marginalized by the dominant tech sector.

In this conversation we discuss their vision for the technology sector and how Mobius' work seeks to enable it.

• Sará, Zi, and Aden's visions for the technology sector [3:36]
• Learnings form Mobius 1.0 [11:05]
• Defining liberatory technology [16:56]
• Mobius' theory of change [26:41]
• Structures of accountability [32:04]
• Mobius' trust and governing structures [34:46]
• Sará's work with Mind Heart as an example of a liberatory technology [42:28]
• Establishing Liberatory technology foundations [50:00]

Resources

• Mobius' website
• "Creating Technology Worthy of the Human Spirit," Aden Van Noppen
• Sará King: Liberatory Technology from the Future; Sará's episode on the Sounds True podcast