The Immeasurable Podcast

You’re listening to The Immeasurable Podcast. This episode is a talk by Stephen Smith at the KFA’s 2020 Annual May Gathering. In this episode, Stephen explores the quiet mind. Stephen takes us on a journey through the intricate layers of consciousness, urging us to examine our fundamental perceptions and assumptions about reality. Through rigorous self-inquiry and a deep exploration of the self, he challenges us to go beyond the limitations of our conditioned minds and embrace a state of profound peace and clarity. Although it cannot be sought out, a quiet mind may be necessary to adequately address the ongoing challenges facing humanity. Join us as we uncover the transformative power of the quiet mind and its potential to revolutionize our understanding of ourselves and the world around us.

Stephen is a former educator at Brockwood Park School, where he had personal contact with Krishnamurti. He was also the former Center Coordinator of the Krishnamurti Foundation of America, organizing events, facilitating dialogues, engaging with the public in Southern California as well as traveling from coast to coast.

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The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 13: The Ending of Psychological Knowledge

Series: The Ending of Time

Why are our minds always operating in a certain direction?

What shall I do, as a human being, realizing that knowledge is naturally, inevitably forming a groove in which I live? How am I to break it down?

Pure observation, which is actually listening, is that pure observation love?

When I ask you to tell me what to do, I am back in the field of knowledge.

We have tried everything – fasting, every kind of thing to get rid of the ‘me’ with all its knowledge, with all its illusions. One tries to identify with something else, which is the same. A serious man has done all this and comes back to the fundamental question: what will make this wall totally disappear?

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

You’re listening to The Immeasurable Podcast and this episode is an exploration on education between Darcy Gray and Jaap Sluijter. Darcy Gray's interest in Krishnamurti's teachings began in his early twenties, leading him to join the Krishnamurti School in Ojai, California, shortly after its establishment in 1975. During his three-decade tenure at Oak Grove School, he engaged in staff dialogues with Krishnamurti and David Bohm, contributing to various roles in the high school, elementary school, and administration. While teaching math and physics, traditionally approached with rote methods, Darcy prioritized innovative ways of presenting the subjects, fostering a collaborative learning atmosphere in the classroom. His teaching philosophy involved questioning both right and wrong answers, encouraging students to share their perspectives even when divergent from his expectations. Despite retiring in 2020, Darcy remained actively involved in Oak Grove School’s Krishnamurti discussions, volunteering and sustaining a profound interest in K’s questions and dialogues. Jaap Sluijter has a long-standing interest in the questions raised by Krishnamurti. Currently, Jaap is the Executive Director of the Krishnamurti Foundation of America. Previously, he lived and taught at Brockwood Park School in England. He has an MA in Mechanical Engineering and worked as a design engineer in the field of camera systems and musical instruments. 

Together, Darcy and Jaap discuss education, drawing insight from Krishnamurti's teachings. They explore the nuances of establishing a meaningful teacher-student relationship, emphasizing the importance of fostering independent thinking. The speakers advocate for a serious learning dynamic, addressing challenges such as fear, judgment, and bullying in the classroom and highlighting the need for clear expectations and standards.

In this dialogue, Jaap and Darcy explore the intricacies of addressing conflict in school, emphasizing the examination of personal desires and vulnerability. They also discuss the impact of Krishnamurti's emphasis on questioning and awareness. The speakers concluded by challenging traditional notions of intelligence, promoting freedom from conditioning, and envisioning schools as spaces for creativity and growth, breaking away from the dichotomy of obedience and rebellion. Click here to watch the previous episode they reference, which pertains to the Flame of Learning book.

You can also view this episode on YouTube.

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Welcome to The Immeasurable Podcast. This episode comes from discussions Krishnamurti had with teachers at Brockwood Park School, recorded in 1976. These dialogues were turned into a book called A Flame of Learning. In the previous episode, “Learning from Every Moment,” Leah and Pooja discuss similar themes. More specifically, they highlight how concepts like authority, discipline, and control impact students, as well as what it means to learn as an educator. 

This episode delves into the significance of the teacher and student, exploring topics such as authority, sensitivity, and learning. Krishnamurti emphasizes the value of collaborative learning between teachers and students.

Krishnamurti said, “It is important to establish right relationship between yourself and the student. You cannot do this if you are sitting on a pedestal as a teacher and treating the students as though below you. Come off the pedestal and establish a relationship of mutual learning.” You can find this quote in the book A Flame of Learning, where you can read these dialogues in print.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/

You’re listening to The Immeasurable Podcast. Welcome to our new listeners and hello again to our returning subscribers. This is the second episode in which we explore education. In this episode, Leah Luong is joined by Pooja Dubey, who comes from Delhi and is a former student of Raj Ghat Beasent School, Varanasi. For the last few years, Pooja has been actively involved in dialogues (both online and offline) at the Bangalore Study Center. In this episode, Pooja discusses her experience as a former student at the Krishnamurti School in India. Together, they explore what it means to learn, the essence of education, and how Krishnamurti schools differ from traditional educational systems.

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The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 12: The Intelligence of Love

Series: The Ending of Time

Can the mind, brain, the whole psychological structure ever be free from all conflict, from all shadow of disturbance?

Thought is the outcome of psychological accumulation. That accumulation gives a sense of continuity, which is time.

Why do all human beings throughout the world have the urge to become?

In accumulation man has sought psychological security, and that security with its accumulation is the factor of human division.

Perception without any motive, without any direction, perception of the wall which has been brought into being by this movement of accumulation, the very perception of that is intelligence and love.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 11: An Order Beyond All Human Order and Disorder

Series: The Ending of Time

Can insight wipe away, banish, or dissolve the whole movement of being tied, attached, dependent, and lonely?

Is there an order which is not man-made?

Measurement can exist only where there is disorder.

We live in a man-made world, we are the result of man-made minds. Can the mind uncondition itself so completely that it’s no longer man-made?

What is the relationship between love and hatred?

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation of Trust

Follow The Immeasurable on Instagram (@krishnamurti_theimmeasurable)
Follow The Immeasurable on Tiktok (@j.krishnamurti)

The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 10: Cosmic Order

Series: The Ending of Time

Is there an order which is not made by humans?

Can the brain ever be free from the impositions, pressures, wounds, bruises, and all the trivialities of existence?

Time is my whole existence. I take refuge in the past, which cannot be changed. Why does the brain accept this way of living, and why doesn’t it break it down?

As long as I have my roots in the past there cannot be order.

If the universe is not of time, can the mind which has been entangled in time unravel itself and so be the universe?

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

Follow The Immeasurable on Instagram (@krishnamurti_theimmeasurable)

The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 9: Senility and the Brain Cells

Series: The Ending of Time

Is the human brain deteriorating?

The human brain is not a particular brain, it doesn't belong to me or to anyone else, it is the human brain which has evolved for millions of years.

Can the brain not only be aware of its own movement but can the brain itself have enough energy to break all patterns and move out of it?

Is psychological knowledge not in itself a factor of the shrinking of the brain?

The ending of suffering comes about when the self, which is built up through time, is no longer there.

If there is an insight into the nature of time the very brain cells which are part of time break down. The brain cells mutate, bring about a change in themselves.

Meditation is insight.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 8: Can Insight be Awakened in Another?

Series: The Ending of Time

What is the relationship to society of an individual who has insight? What is their action with regard to war and the whole world?

To divert the course of humanity’s destruction, somebody must listen.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 7: Death Has Very Little Meaning

Series: The Ending of Time

Is there a totally different way of approaching the whole turmoil of life?

As long as the center is creating darkness, and thought is operating in that darkness, there must be disorder, there must be everything as society now is. To move away from that you must have insight.

Insight can only come about when there is a flash which abolishes not only the darkness but the creator of darkness.

Human beings have been acting according to one pattern, responding to hatred by hatred and so on. There are those few, perhaps many, who did not. Why has this division taken place?

The man who is living in darkness can move away at any time to the other. That is the point: at any time.

What happens to a mind that has no conflict?

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

The Immeasurable Podcast highlights a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 6: Can Insight Bring About a Mutation of the Brain Cells?

Series: The Ending of Time

Can insight change the brain cells?

In the brain is there an activity that is not touched by consciousness?

Insight is not dependent on the material process, which is thought. Where there is violence, peace cannot exist. Where there is peace, is there violence?

As insight is causeless, is not born out of cause, that insight has a definite effect on that which has cause.

The material process acts in ignorance, in darkness. This flash of insight enlightens the whole field, which means ignorance, darkness has been dispelled.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

Welcome back to The Immeasurable Podcast. This episode is a talk titled “Facing a World in Crisis,” given by David Skitt at the Annual May Gathering in 2008. In his talk, David reflects on Krishnamurti’s statement “You are the world” as he discusses themes such as conflict, personal responsibility, and interconnectedness. The second part of the episode is a question and answer session with the audience.

David is a former trustee of the Krishnamurti Foundation Trust at Brockwood Park. He is the editor of a number of books of Krishnamurti’s talks and dialogues, one of which is titled Facing a World in Crisis after which this talk was named. You can find the book at our online bookstore store.kfa.org. I hope you enjoy the episode. 

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Welcome back to The Immeasurable Podcast. This episode comes from discussions Krishnamurti had with teachers at Brockwood Park School, which he founded in England in 1969. These dialogues were turned into a book called A Flame of Learning and are also referenced by Jaap and Shailesh in the previous episode,  Exploring Education. Krishnamurti explores a teacher’s relationship with both the school and with their colleagues and students. 

In this episode, Krishnamurti questions the nature of freedom and authority, the root of fear and violence, and the possibility of awakening intelligence and sensitivity to order. The teachers and Krishnamurti also go into the nature of inquiry itself and the necessity for clarity, observation, and communication. He challenges educators to look at the need for radical psychological change and to consider the possibility of such changes in all human beings. Krishnamurti said, "Seeing something very clearly and acting instantly is intelligence. Can we have that intelligence among ourselves first, and then convey it to the student?" You can find this quote in the book A Flame of Learning, where you can read these dialogues in print. Visit store.kfa.org to order it now. I hope you enjoy the episode.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/

Welcome back to The Immeasurable Podcast. This episode is an exploration on education between Shailesh Shirali and Jaap Sluijter. Dr. Shailesh Shirali has been with the Krishnamurti schools in India since the early 1980s. He is a trustee of the Krishnamurti Foundation of India (KFI) and has served as Principal of Rishi Valley School; he is currently the Director of Sahyadri School. He has also been in the field of mathematics education for many decades and is the author of several books for students and teachers. He has a particular interest in ancient Indian mathematics, and in facilitating inquiry into fundamental issues among teachers and students at the school level. Jaap Sluijter has a long-standing interest in the questions raised by Krishnamurti. Currently, Jaap is the Executive Director of the Krishnamurti Foundation of America. Previously, he lived and taught at Brockwood Park School in England. He has an MA in Mechanical Engineering and worked as a design engineer in the field of camera systems and musical instruments. Together, they attempt to look at education through a wider angle: developing one’s full potential in and out of the classroom, as well as the challenges they face in education. You can also view this episode on YouTube.

Follow The Immeasurable on Instagram (@krishnamurti_theimmeasurable)
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Subscribe to The Immeasurable on YouTube (@theimmeasurable)
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The Immeasurable Podcast is highlighting a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 5: The Ground of Being and the Mind of Humanity

Series: The Ending of Time

Why is having ideas become so important?

What is the difference between a religious mind and a philosophic mind?

What is the human mind’s relationship to the ground?

Why has man accumulated knowledge?

When you love somebody there is no ‘me’, it is love. In the same way, when I say I am humanity, it is so. It is not an idea, it is not a conclusion, it is part of me.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

The Immeasurable Podcast is highlighting a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Visit kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 4: Breaking the Pattern of Ego-centred Activity

Series: The Ending of Time

What will make a human being change, deeply, fundamentally, radically?

Will I, as a human being, give up my egocentric activity completely?

The more knowledge I have acquired, as I have evolved, as I have grown, as I have experienced, it has strengthened me, and I have been walking on that path for millennia. Perhaps I may have to look at this problem totally differently - which is not to walk on that path at all; discard all knowledge I have acquired.

Explanations have been the boat on which to cross to the other shore. The man on the other shore says there is no boat. Cross!

What happens to me when I meet something that is completely solid, immovable, absolutely true?

Psychological knowledge has made us dull.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

Welcome to The Immeasurable Podcast. The following episode is an exploration with Leah Luong and Jackie McInley and was recorded in Ojai at Pine Cottage, Krishnamurti’s former residence. The episode is titled after the book Beyond Violence.

Krishnamurti said, “We have built a society which is violent and we as human beings are violent; the environment, the culture we live in, is the product of our endeavor, of our struggle, of our pain, of our appalling brutalities. So the most important question is: is it possible to end this tremendous violence within oneself?” While Jackie and Leah discuss this possibility together, they are by no means experts and this dialogue is an attempt to discover it as if for the first time. You can also view this episode on YouTube.

Follow The Immeasurable on Instagram (@krishnamurti_theimmeasurable)
Follow The Immeasurable on Tiktok (@j.krishnamurti)
Subscribe to The Immeasurable on YouTube (@theimmeasurable)
Like The Immeasurable on Facebook (facebook.com/theimmeasurable.org)

The Immeasurable Podcast is highlighting a fifteen-part series from Ojai recorded in 1980 where J. Krishnamurti spoke with David Bohm about the ending of time. You can visit Pine Cottage where this conversation took place, and where Krishnamurti lived and passed away, during visiting hours at the Krishnamurti Library in Ojai, CA. Please go to kfa.org for details.

J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - Dialogue 3: Why Has Man Given Supreme Importance to Thought?

Series: The Ending of Time

Q: Is the 'ground' indifferent to mankind, as the physical universe appears to be?

How does one find out if there is something more than merely the physical?

Q: Why is it that theories are necessary and useful in organizing facts about matter outwardly, and yet inwardly, psychologically they are in the way, of no use at all?

Seeking security for myself, for my family, for my group, and for my tribe, has brought about division.

Why has man given importance to thought as the supreme thing?

If I accept I am irrational completely, I am rational.

For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:

International Site - http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jk.krishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - http://www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - http://www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - http://www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - http://www.fkla.org/

© 1980 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust

Follow The Immeasurable on Instagram (@krishnamurti_theimmeasurable)

Welcome back to The Immeasurable Podcast. I’m Leah Luong and this episode is a talk given by David Edmund Moody during the 2018 Annual May Gathering. David was the first teacher hired when Krishnamurti founded the Oak Grove School in Ojai, California, in 1975. He subsequently served as educational director of the school, which was the position he held at the time of Krishnamurti’s death in 1986. He is the author of three books about Krishnamurti. His most recent book is titled Krishnamurti in America: New Perspectives on the Man and his Message (Alpha Centauri Press, 2020). 

David’s talk is called Conflict in Relationship: Krishnamurti's View. He raises questions such as, “Can thought be aware of its own limitations?” and “If you have no relationship with nature, how can you have relationship with human beings?” His talk centers around understanding the sources of conflict in human relationship, what it means to be related, and exploring the nature and meaning of thought.

I hope you enjoy it.

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