Where Do We Go From Here?

If you've been eyeing a summer bikini and hoping no one from church sees you, this might be your episode. Most of us had a parent or pastor telling us what to wear before we ever heard about premarital sex. The "modesty" conversation embedded itself into Purity Culture dictating the length of shorts, width of straps, and what kind of swimsuit was ok. We go through the problems with how modesty was taught and end with What Do We Wear From Here? We talk about ethical fashion, the context for our clothes, what's developmentally appropriate, and so much more.

AND!!! Dr. Celeste Holbrook joins us as our first contributor for a monthly segment answering YOUR questions about sex. Listen up for the inaugural q & a at the end of this episode. Connect with Dr. Celeste on Facebook and Instagram.

Full show notes here

Partner with us for $3/month and listen to July's new romcom recap: 500 Days of Summer! Plus you get to hear uncut episodes from Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Dr. Michael Bird, and so many more (and a ticket to The Green Room). 

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We've got a BIG episode for you to finish out June 2021. Listener and book club member Steph joins us to share her where do we go from here? story. From conservative evangelical culture in the mid west of the United States to the discovery that she's queer, Steph's insight about life as a queer Christian and what being part of a church community has meant to her will encourage you. 

As a special gift to you from our show, we've unlocked our Partner-only episode with Bridget Eileen Rivera so that all of you can listen to it in Patreon.

Get a ticket to the Green Room! We meet on zoom at 9pm EST on Thursday June 24 (11am Melbourne time, June 25). It's the perfect place to meet others on a similar journey, ask questions, discuss and grow. 

Jess and Devi also start this episode off with a conversation about last week's hot topic: the song "Modest is Hottest." Is this a 2021 expression of Purity Culture? Should we give it any oxygen? What is real satire? We talk about it, and issue a challenge for you.

Compose a song satirizing modest culture - real satire! - record yourself performing it, put it on social media and tag us. We'd love to feature your work on the show if it's quality.

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One of Purity Culture's origin stories is the birth of the militaristic masculine tradition inside white American evangelicalism. It is a story clearly told and meticulously documented by Professor Kristin Kobes Du Mez in her singular book, Jesus and John Wayne. Pioneered by men like James Dobson then continued more recently by John Eldredge and Mark Driscoll, this movement sought to define the nuclear family as the most important unit worthy of the protection of a strong father figure. But what of the generation of men who read Wild at Heart, attended boot camps, and grew up believing they didn't fit the evangelical picture of masculinity? Their experience of reading this book is told throughout the episode as Professor Du Mez explains where the movement came from and how it shaped the fractured evangelicalism we see today.  

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Partner with us for $3/month to hear Professor Du Mez's talk to us about the untold stories around Billy Graham, James Dobson, and Mark Driscoll. 

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Kristin Kobes Du Mez is Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. She holds a PhD from the University of Notre Dame and her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics. She has written for the New York Times, Washington Post, NBC News, and Religion News Service, and has been interviewed on NPR, CBS, and the BBC, among other outlets. Her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. Connect with Kristin on Twitter

Move over Christian sex books, there's a rescue at hand. Sheila Wray Gregoire and her co-writers surveyed 20,000 Christian women, and what they found is shocking. If reading Love & Respect, the Act of Marriage, and others harmed you and your marriage, this is the episode for you. There is a way out of shame and obligation sex. 

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Partner with us for $3/month to hear our recap of Miss Congeniality and get a ticket to this month's Green Room. 

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Sheila Wray Gregoire is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex! A popular speaker, marriage blogger, and award-winning author of nine books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and her latest book, The Great Sex Rescue, she wants to challenge Christians to go beyond pat answers on marriage to reach real intimacy. Sheila believes in authenticity, and gives real solutions to the very real and messy problems women, and couples, can face. Connect with Sheila on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

Most of us who left Purity Culture know that there were two pieces of advice for successful relationships: Don't date a non Christian and don't have premarital sex. Ready for more? We tackle Christians dating non Christians today with data,  practical truths and myths as well as your tender, truthful stories. 

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Partner with us to hear this month's movie recap: Miss Congeniality! Does this hit from 2000 hold up in 2021? Sandra Bullock plus beauty pageant gave Jess & Devi lots to talk about. 

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Morgan Strehlow joins us to tell her Purity Culture story. The church taught her how to be a good girl and expected her to lead, but left her without the tools she needed to deal with growing up. With vulnerability Morgan tells us about the impact of purity culture and how she internalized the obligation sex message and what she's doing to move forward. 

Full show notes here

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Want a ticket to The Green Room so you can chat with Jess & Devi and other members of the community? On May 27 (28 in Australia) we are having our first monthly zoom call for Partners of the Show. Sign up by the 27th to join this month's call. 

We've all heard "The Bible clearly says" from pastors and people we know, so how do we get better at understanding biblical texts? Theology professor and academic dean Dr. Michael Bird joins us to look at the three big mistakes we make when we read our Bibles. Yes we look at historical context and reading our present moment into an ancient document, but we also talk about pragmatic and ideal ethics. There's so much good stuff in here to equip you to be a better student of the Bible. 

Full Show Notes Here

Partner with us for $3/month to hear a bonus episode with Michael Bird going through three New Testament texts: 1 Corinthians 11:2-12, Romans 16:1-7, and 1 Timothy 2:11-14.

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Michael Bird is Academic Dean and Lecturer in Theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He is an Anglican priest, author of more than 30 books on biblical and theological studies, including The New Testament in its World co-authored with N.T. Wright, he enjoys tennis, and hating coffee. He is married to Naomi and together they have four children. Follow Mike on Twitter @mbird13

Consent is a big word that's been in the news for the past few years, and when New South Wales Police Commissioner Mick Fuller suggested an app to regulate consent for the purpose of reducing assaults, we knew it was time for THE TALK. What is informed, enthusiastic consent? Why is it crucial for evangelicals to engage with this topic even with abstinence teaching? What does agency look like for women in relationships? This is the big talk about consent.

Full show notes here

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Partner with us for $3/month to hear uncut interviews, romcom debriefs and a to get a ticket to The Green Room, a live chat with Jess & Devi. 

Want a movie that simultaneously makes you think about revenge and forgiveness, sex and consent, men and women AND romcoms? "Promising Young Woman" is director/writer Emerald Fennel's Oscar-winning movie, and you guys. We have BIG THOUGHTS about what it has to say to us today. Jess & Devi talk through the major plot points, tracking Cassie's choices in light of purity culture and the what the broader culture around us says about men, women, sex and consent. 

(Warning: episode contains tons of spoilers)

Our thanks to Viviana Ortiz who created the episode artwork and allowed us to use it. Follow her: @vivs_studio

Bonus - go to the show notes for a free movie discussion guide 

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It's time to hear one of YOUR stories. Today Jenna tells us about purity culture in California, how her teen years and 20s helped her make decisions as she got older. Her story will help you feel less alone. 

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You can hear our thoughts about Pretty Woman on The Jess & Devi Show for $3/month. Sign up today!

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This week we start to find ways to heal, grow, and move forward. Therapist Krispin Mayfield gives us simple tools to begin the process of healing. 

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Partner with us for $3/month to hear uncut episodes with experts AND our recaps of romcoms from the 80s, 90s and 00s like this week's look back at Pretty Woman.

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Krispin Mayfield a therapist trained in Emotionally Focused Therapy, working with individuals and couples in Portland, OR. He explores the intersection of spirituality and attachment science on his podcast Attached to the Invisible and has a forthcoming book from Zondervan in 2022. Connect with Krispin on Instagram and Twitter.

The science of attachment teaches us about how we relate to other people. As therapist Krispin Mayfield tells us today, we were created for connection, so how are we connecting with others if we were never taught how to do so in healthy ways? In part one today we cover the foundations of attachment: How we learn to attach, the coping strategies we use, what that might look like in our relationships. 

Full show notes here

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Become a partner today for $3 and get uncut interviews with guests, romcom debriefs, and starting in May, a ticket to The Green Room, a live zoom chat with Jess and Devi and other partners. 

Krispin Mayfield a therapist trained in Emotionally Focused Therapy, working with individuals and couples in Portland, OR. He explores the intersection of spirituality and attachment science on his podcast Attached to the Invisible and has a forthcoming book from Zondervan in 2022. Connect with Krispin on Instagram and Twitter.

Remember those talks about how to be a "Biblical" woman, or a Proverbs 31 woman? What if it was never about the Bible? Professor Beth Allison Barr talks us through the cultural forces that shaped how the church treated women from the medieval period to the Reformation to where we are today.

Full show notes here

Our partners get to hear Dr. Barr explain how women have been written out of the English Bible, and you can too by joining today for $3/month. 

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Beth Allison Barr (PhD, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) is professor of history and associate dean of the Graduate School at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, where she specializes in medieval history, women’s history, and church history. She is the president of the Conference on Faith and History and is a member of Christians for Biblical Equality. Barr has written for Christianity Today, the Washington Post, and Religion News Service, and is a regular contributor to The Anxious Bench, the popular Patheos website on Christian history.

Connect with Dr. Barr on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

Trigger Warning: rape and sexual assault

What do you do when the news is triggering? Australia's been reeling with its own #MeToo moment, and as headline after headline broadcasted the names of abusers and politicians, we wanted to centre you, the survivors. Psychologist Naomi Palmer joins us to give us tips for those of you processing triggers as well as how to support the ones you love who are dealing with the news in a more personal way. This episode also starts off with a discussion about app dating, and how to gain confidence in dating after purity culture (Jess has five practical tips).

Show notes here

Join the fun on The Jess & Devi Show for $3/month. You get uncut interviews and our lookbacks at romcoms of the past (this week we have a new one - Sweet Home Alabama - is it sweet or sour after all this time?). 

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The last episode of the month is when we get to hear YOUR stories, and today Julia talks to us about untangling purity culture and deconstructing her faith...in 2008. She was way ahead of schedule, and she's got stories and insights to share with us about how she went about doing it. Listen to hear more about parenting, managing anxiety, questioning your faith, and rebuilding. 

Full show notes here

Become a partner for $3/month and hear our recap of Sweet Home Alabama on the Jess & Devi Show! 

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We hear a lot about what the New Testament supposedly says about.. everything (including sex). But as we're reminded today by our guest, the New Testament is largely made up of letters that we're "eavesdropping" on. So if we want to know what these letters might mean for us, we'll need to get to know who wrote the letter and to whom. New Testament Christians. What was their cultural context? What ideas formed the people around them and how did this uniquely shape the way the gospel was communicated? 

This episode is packed with insights from Professor Mariam Kamell Kovalishyn from Regent College, and the full conversation is available only for our partners for $3/month. 

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Mariam J. Kovalishyn joined the faculty at Regent College in 2010, and was appointed Assistant Professor of New Testament in 2013.

The majority of Mariam’s research has centered on the epistle of James, Jewish literature of the Intertestamental period, and classical Graeco-Roman literature. Additionally, since coming to Regent, she has expanded to researching and writing across the epistles, Pauline and General.

Mariam has co-authored a commentary on James (Zondervan), has published a number of articles in books and journals. She is currently working on another commentary on James for the Story of God series, and a biblical theology of social justice for Zondervan, as well as a commentary on 1 and 2 Peter. 

Jess got married, and we are talking about it! What if "Congratulations" is the wrong thing to say at a wedding? How can we see marriage as a different stage of life instead of a promotion from singleness? We also talk about Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's interview with Oprah Winfrey, a couple talking about their first few years as newlyweds. What does this tell us about marriage? And we finish it off with your marriage advice - the good, the bad, and the... well.. listen to hear it all.

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Partner with us for $3/month to get uncut interviews and hear a monthly debrief of romcoms from the past.

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This episode is part of our Jess & Devi Show series for our partners, but today you get a peak at the magic on the inside with our recap of the 1999 hit rom com "Never Been Kissed." 

Josie Grosie. Teacher Sam Coulson. Horrible prom memories (remember Billy??) and drugged brownies. Let's walk back through memory lane to see if the movie that gave some of us chills is any good in 2021. 

Show notes here

All our partners get two exclusive episodes a month for $3, one movie recap and one uncut interview with our expert guests. Join us today!

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What's the best way to push back against celebrity culture? Listen to people who aren't on the platform. We do that once a month by featuring YOUR stories. Today we hear from Amy, one of our earliest listeners and partners. She's a public school English teacher, and we talk about purity culture in Australia, finding her voice, how she navigated app dating, and where she's going from here. 

Full show notes here

If you want to join the Ladies Night Book Club, it's your last chance. Come read Redeeming Sex by Debra Hirsch with us in March and April for $9/month. Join us for weekly zoom calls, Facebook discussions, a Q&A with Debra Hirsch, and an exclusive conversation with her as well. 

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Debra Hirsch published the book Redeeming Sex in 2015 before evangelicals had the language we do today for the connection between spirituality and sexuality. Her work flows out of her decades of lived experience as a counselor and pastor working with people in the area of sexuality. She has a lifetime of wisdom and insight to share with us, and we get a piece of that in this conversation. We are more than our genital "bits and bobs" as Deb says, we are wired to know and be known, love and be loved, we are wired for connection and intimacy, for a sexuality that is social, not just genital.

Full show notes here

Want more of the story Deb is telling here? Join us for the Ladies Night Book Club for $9/month as we read Redeeming Sex in March and April. 

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Deb Hirsch is a speaker, church leader, and writer who has led churches in both Australia and Los Angeles. She is one of the founders of Forge Mission Training Network and is a member of the Forge America national team. She also serves as a board member for Missio Alliance and was part of the leadership team of Christian Associates, a church planting movement in Europe, North & South America. Her book Redeeming Sex reflects her own journey and attempts to bring new conversations about sexuality into the context of the church. Deb has been involved in social work, community development and as a trained counselor has worked in the field of sexuality for over twenty-five years.