Where Do We Go From Here?

*Trigger Warning: This episode contains reference to childhood rape, every manner of sexual abuse and violence toward women. We encourage you to proceed with caution and kindness toward yourself if these are areas of personal experience or concern.

Francine Rivers' novel Redeeming Love, released to a Christian audience in 1997, made an enormous impact on white evangelical women in the 90s and 00s. Pastors gave it to women to read, mothers passed it on to their daughters, and for many of you, it was a taste of God's love you'd never experienced before. 

With the movie out now, it's a perfect time to revisit this book to ask some questions. What is this saying about women? What is it saying about "sexual sin"? Does this book have any similarities to the book of Hosea in the Bible? We have big thoughts - we're sure you do to.  

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Partners of the show get rom com recaps (we'll be doing one on the Redeeming Love movie when it comes out in Australia), Purity Culture News & Views, uncut interviews and a ticket to the Green Room. Join us for all this exclusive content for $3/month (USD).

We wrap up our series On Premarital Sex by talking to Professor David Ayers who has studied the sex lives of young evangelicals for the past 30 years. We also share the results of our survey and YOUR responses. What comes next for evangelicals when it comes to sexuality and sex education? We have all the thoughts. 

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Partner with us for $3/month and get an episode weekly of The Jess & Devi Show. This week it's Purity Culture News and Views where we talk about sex after 70, the morning after pill, and why men's social circles are shrinking plus all the shows you should be watching. Get it here!

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David Ayers is Professor of Sociology in the Department of Economics and Sociology at Grove City College, where he has also served previously as Dean of the Alva J. Calderwood School of Arts and Letters, and as Interim Provost and Vice President for Academic Affairs. He is author of two textbooks, most recently of Christian Marriage: A Comprehensive Introduction (Lexham, 2019). His book After the Revolution: Sex and the Single Evangelical will be released in Spring, 2022 by Lexham Press. He holds his Ph.D. in Sociology from New York University.

What if there was more to being men and women than cultural roles and expectations? Aimee Byrd joins us with an invitation to study the Song of Songs as something beautiful, glorious, and re-invigorating for our imaginations. 

Join our partners for $3/month to hear Aimee talk about her book Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and the resulting backlash against the book. Partners also get weekly podcast episodes recapping romcoms and purity culture news. 

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Aimee Byrd lives in her hometown in Frederick, MD with her husband, Matt, with one teen, one young adult with her foot out the door, and one in grad. school. A former coffee cafe owner, Aimee now uses many of her conversational barista skills in writing and speaking. She is the author of Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and the upcoming book The Sexual Reformation: Restoring the Dignity and Personhood of Man and Woman. Visit Aimee's blog here and connect with her on Twitter @aimeebyrdhwt.

This movie has something for everyone - family drama, romance, and that holiday sparkle. It's the story of a tight-knit, wacky family, and the oldest son's "uptight" girlfriend. But does this 2005 movie hold up today? 

We talk about grief, bad boyfriends and girlfriends, and what makes a good relationship. Get into it!

Partner with us for $3/month. You get to hear romcom recaps like this one, and December's is the Netflix movie Love Hard. 

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Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sexologist and speaker who helps her clients evolve into the women they were created to be, in and outside of the bedroom. She speaks on a variety of topics from sex drive and sexual shame to painful intercourse, purity culture, and more. Connect with Dr. Celeste on Instagram

If you thought purity culture was a thing of the past, guess again. Turns out there are new forms in 2021. We're calling it Purity Culture 2.0, and it's found on YouTube and Instagram and in new books. What do these new-but-old messages have in common? How do they exhibit characteristics of purity culture from the past? Listen in to find out more.

Take our *new* anonymous survey on premarital sex

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Partner with us for $3/month (USD) and get episodes of The Jess & Devi Show. This week it's a romcom recap of The Family Stone.

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No chewed up gum metaphors allowed in this episode about abstinence. You'll hear the thoughts and lived experience of a single woman in her 30s who chooses abstinence now. What makes this abstinence different from the True Love Waits pledges of the teen years? How is it lived out when it comes to app dating in 2021? Kathryn Freeman has all the insights for us in this fantastic episode. 

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Partner with us for $3/month. You get to hear our conversation with DeVon Wade also about abstinence, and why he chooses abstinence now.

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Kathryn Freeman is a leader, writer, and speaker at the intersection of faith, justice, and culture.Kathryn has a degree in English from Texas A&M University, a law degree from the University of Texas, and a Masters of Divinity from Baylor University’s Truett Seminary.  Kathryn is one half of the podcast, Melanated Faith, a conversation about race, faith, and culture from the perspective of two Black Christian women. She has written for Christianity Today, Christ and Pop Culture, The Baptist Standard, The Houston Chronicle, Think Christian, and Austin Woman Magazine. Connect with Kathryn on Instagram and Twitter.

A portion of our Partner-only conversation with fat activist Amanda Martinez Beck. Beck joins us to talk about fatness and sexuality.

We incorrectly referred to Amanda as Amanda Beck Martinez throughout the episode. Her name is Amanda Martinez Beck.

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Amanda Martinez Beck is a fat activist and author of More of You: The Fat Girl's Field Guide to the Modern World, coming in May 2022. She is the host of the Fat & Faithful podcast and has a passion for helping others learn about the goodness of their bodies just as they are, today. Connect with Amanda on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. You can find her Etsy shop here and join her Facebook group All Bodies Are Good Bodies. 

The conversation about human sexuality after purity culture is a conversation about bodies. All kinds of bodies. We know what our culture promotes as the "acceptable" body, but what does the church say? Is there a difference? And what does this mean for people who don't fit that mold? Fat activist Amanda Martinez Beck joins us to talk about fatness and sexuality, and we even get into the five myths about fatness and sexuality. 

We incorrectly referred to Amanda as Amanda Beck Martinez throughout the episode. Her name is Amanda Martinez Beck.

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Partner with us for $3/month. The Green Room is October 28/29, and we'd love for you to join the zoom call! 

The call is October 28 9pm EST/6pm PST and October 29 noon Melbourne time!

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Amanda Martinez Beck is a fat activist and author of More of You: The Fat Girl's Field Guide to the Modern World, coming in May 2022. She is the host of the Fat & Faithful podcast and has a passion for helping others learn about the goodness of their bodies just as they are, today. Connect with Amanda on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. You can find her Etsy shop here and join her Facebook group All Bodies Are Good Bodies. 

Every month our partners get to hear us debrief purity culture in the news and pop culture that has purity culture resonance. This month we talk about:

• Lizzo's Ted Talk on the history of twerking
• criminalization of stealthing in California and the ACT
• SBC drama over sexual abuse coverups
• In The Heights, Impeachment, Dear..., and The Baker & The Beauty

We get into what these stories mean for us and the world, AND we talk about why these shows are must-watchable. You get a teaser today, and if you like what you hear, it's time to sign up!

Partner with us for $3 USD/month to get this full episode plus all the other fabulous episodes with guests, rom com recaps, and a ticket to the Green Room (next week!).

Purity culture told us to wait to have sex because one day (for sure) we would get married and have "really hot sex." Today we invite you to examine another aspect of the premarital sex conversation - celibacy. But let's re-imagine it with Pieter Valk and Dani Treweek, a therapist and a minister who are committed to living without sex as single people. 

Full show notes here

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Our partners get to hear exclusive audio from our conversation with Pieter and Dani - join us on the inside to listen. 

Pieter Valk is a licensed professional counselor, the director of EQUIP (equipyourcommunity.org), and cofounder of the Nashville Family of Brothers (familyofbrothers.org), an ecumenically Christian brotherhood for men called to vocational singleness. He helps churches love gay people and celibate Christians find family. Follow Pieter @pieterlvalk on all platforms.

Rev'd. Dr Danielle Treweek is a Christian pastor, leader and theologian with a ministry focus on biblical singleness, sexuality, worldview formation & other related topics. Dani completed a Doctorate through St Mark's National Theological Centre and Charles Sturt University. Her doctoral thesis is titled, 'The End of Singleness? Towards a Theological Retrieval of Singleness for the Contemporary Church'. She is an ordained Anglican deacon, has served on staff at a number of different churches and is the founding director of the Single Minded ministry. She has an upcoming book on singleness due to be published by IVP in 2022. Connect with Dani here, and find out more about Single Minded here

Our partners got our deep dive of the OG romcom When Harry Met Sally. This movie covers some of the topics nearest and dearest to the hearts of purity culture lovers, namely this big question:

Can men and women be friends without sex getting in the way? 

Is there a difference between Harry's beliefs and the Billy Graham Rule? We talk about it here, and today you all get a teaser. If you like it, maybe it's time to partner with us. 

Join us for $3 (USD)/month and get all the other fabulous episodes of The Jess & Devi Show with guests, romcom recaps, purity culture in the news, and The Green Room.

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Therapist and author Jay Stringer joins us today to help us address a listener question. "What do you think are the best concrete steps that men can take to retrain themselves to develop healthy relationships with women?" The answers are easier AND harder than you might imagine. 

Hear what Jay has to say about recognizing our sexual story and its power over in Patreon for $3(USD)/month.

Full show notes here

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Jay Stringer is a licensed mental health counselor, ordained minister, and internationally requested speaker on the subject of unwanted sexual behavior. Jay holds an MDiv and master in counseling psychology from the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology and received post-graduate training under Dr. Dan Allender while serving as a Senior Fellow at the Allender Center. His award-winning book is Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing. Connect with Jay on Instagram and Twitter.

We are going THERE. This is the start of a two-part series about premarital sex. Today Matthias Roberts joins us to help those of you open to considering what breaking some of your former rules might look like. 

(Note: In October you'll hear part two, a discussion about celibacy.)

Full show notes here

Join The Jess & Devi Show community as a partner, and hear this week's episode: Jess and Devi discussing the four paradoxes of sex outlined in Beyond Shame. You'll also get movie recaps, Devi Reads Jess The News (And Jess Tells Devi What To Watch), and uncut episodes with guests. Join today for $3 USD a month.

Matthias Roberts is a psychotherapist, author of Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms (Fortress/Broadleaf, 2020), and host of Queerology: A Podcast on Belief and Being. He holds two master’s degrees, one in Theology & Culture and one in Counseling Psychology from The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. Matthias writes and speaks nationwide about the intersections between gender, sexuality, mental health, and theology. Connect with Matthias on Instagram and Twitter.

Did you hear our new intro? Yes, we are here to untangle sex, self, and community for a new generation of Christians. Leave behind purity culture, and save what matters. Together, let's rebuild life and faith with Jesus at the center, so you can figure out where will you go from here?

We untangle together today with Brendan Kwiatkowski as our guide. If the versions of masculinity presented by the church and secular culture were restrictive, what comes next? How do we cast a better vision for masculinity? Brendan's researching this topic for his PhD, and his ideas are worth our consideration.

Plus Dr. Celese Holbrook joins us for another Ask Dr. Celeste segment - all your sex ed questions answered! 

Full show notes here

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Brendan Kwiatkowski is a PhD candidate at the University of Edinburgh researching the relationship between adolescent males' levels of emotional restriction and their experiences and beliefs around masculinity. He was a highschool teacher from British Columbia Canada and due to covid is currently there with his spouse, three kids, and a dog. While he believes theory is important, he has little interest in research/academia that is so far removed from praxis. Follow Brendan

Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sexologist and speaker who helps her clients evolve into the women they were created to be, in and outside of the bedroom. She speaks on a variety of topics from sex drive and sexual shame to painful intercourse, purity culture and more. Connect with Dr. Celeste on Instagram

When Jessica Van Der Wyngaard created the film I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye, she had to face her own relationship with Christian celebrity culture. For the first time on our show, she talks about what it was like to make the film, a film people would largely credit to Josh Harris. And she takes us on a journey to rediscover what is worth fighting for in the Christian story. 

Show Notes Here

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Don't forget to sign up for The Green Room by becoming a partner today! Jess will be doing an exclusive Q&A this week about her experience making the film, plus you'll get to connect with others who are thinking about purity culture and the way forward. 

August 26 (Thursday) at 9pm EST/ August 27 (Friday) 11am Melbourne time.

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Trigger Warning: This episode contains references to sexual assault and other serious matters. Please proceed with caution.

Like many of you, we've been listening along to Christianity Today’s masterful podcast The Rise and Fall Of Mars Hill, and we had all the thoughts after the last one: The Things We Do To Women.

Think of this as the debrief you wanted to have with a friend after you listened to that episode. Jess and Devi talk power and control, the pornified imagination Mark Driscoll represented, and of course: Where do we go from here?

Watch this episode on YouTube HERE.

Full Show Notes Partner with us for $3/month to hear an episode a week starting in August! Romcom debriefs, uncut audio, Devi reads Jess the news, and the Green Room all for $3/month

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It's our last listener show, and we go out with a bang getting to talk to DeVon this week. He tells us about going from a church background to walking away from God and his return to the church. Purity Culture found him on his return to the church, and he's got all the thoughts on how he dealt with it, and what he's doing now to change the culture to build healthy friendships and partnerships between men and women in evangelicalism. 

Partners get to join us in the Green Room this week, so if you want to chat, join our community in Patreon for $3/month. Two zoom discussion links available in Patreon this month:

Thursday, July 29 8:30pm (AEDT)/ 6:30am (EST)
Thursday July 29  9pm (EST)/ Friday July 30 11am (AEDT)

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Raise your hand if you heard the phrase "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Turns out there's a psychological reason why this is impossible. Dr. Richard Beck joins us today to talk about the psychology of disgust and the unconscious ways in which we push people away whom we believe will contaminate us. Jess and Devi also debrief the power of metaphors, and the ways a metaphor can harm us (crumpled rose anyone?). 

Partners get the full audio of this rich conversation, so if you want more from Dr. Richard Beck, join our community in Patreon for $3/month.

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Richard Beck is an author, blogger and professor of psychology at Abilene Christian University. His most recent books are Hunting Magic Eels: Recovering an Enchanted Faith in a Skeptical Age and Trains, Jesus and Murder: The Gospel According to Johnny Cash. Richard writes daily about the intersections of faith and psychology on his blog Experimental Theology.

Listener Julie joins us to talk about the fear of making mistakes and how it crippled her for years. You'll find yourself in the broad themes of her story as someone who had to take on Purity Culture, the prosperity gospel, and her own pride. It moved her from passive princess to the strong, single woman she is today. 

Partner with us for $3/month to hear this month's romcom recap, "500 Days of Summer." You also get special guest episodes and a ticket to the Green Room.

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