informed decision making

Melissa Perri is the CEO of Produx Labs, a product management training organization; author of the seminal PM book The Build Trap; and a former Harvard Business School professor of product management. Denise Tilles is the CPO at Grocket, Melissa’s colleague at Produx Labs, and a seasoned product leader with over a decade of experience. Together they authored the new book Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale. In today’s episode, they share insights, strategies, and real-world experiences to master all things product ops. We discuss:

• What exactly product operations is

• The three pillars of the product ops role

• The biggest benefits of adding product ops to your organization

• Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

• How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

• Examples of companies that have implemented product ops well

• Who and how to hire for this role

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This entire episode is brought to you by Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-operations-melissa-perri-and-denise-tilles/#transcript

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Where to find Melissa Perri:

• X: https://twitter.com/lissijean

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/

• Website: https://produxlabs.com/

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Where to find Denise Tilles:

• X: https://twitter.com/dtilles

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisetilles/

• Website: https://www.denisetilles.com

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) About our guests, Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

(03:46) How common is the product operations role?

(07:41) The benefits of having a product ops person in your organization

(09:16) How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

(11:44) The three pillars of the product ops role

(15:25) How user research fits in

(18:35) Why product ops will be an essential role for product managers to thrive

(24:24) Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

(28:58) Project management vs. product ops

(29:44) The jobs of a product ops person

(37:38) Why the product ops role will never become obsolete

(39:31) How many product ops people you need

(45:13) First steps in building out a product ops team

(47:06) What to look for in your first hire

(51:11) Key skills needed for a product ops person

(57:29) Who product ops should report to

(59:50) An example of rolling out product ops at Athena Health

(1:09:35) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale: https://www.productoperations.com/

• Produx Labs: https://produxlabs.com

• How to create a winning product strategy | Melissa Perri: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy-melissa-perri/

• Blake Samic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakesamic/

• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X

• Athena Health: https://www.athenahealth.com/

• Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/

• PopSQL: https://popsql.com/

• Understanding the role of product ops | Christine Itwaru (Pendo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/

• Doodle: https://doodle.com/en/

• Stephanie Leue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-leue/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Dovetail: https://dovetail.com/

• Looker: https://cloud.google.com/looker/

• Brian Bhuta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbhuta/

• How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

• Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey-winters-pinterest-eventbrite-airbnb-tinder-canva-reddit-grubhub/

• Shared services model: https://www.gartner.com/en/finance/insights/shared-services-model

• Shintaro Matsui on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smatsui/

• Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/

• Jen Cardello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jencardello/

• Tim Davenport on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-davenport-28249b9/

• Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral: https://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Genius-Rivalry-Delusion-Billion-Dollar/dp/0593299752

• The Art of Action: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Action-10th-Anniversary/dp/1529376963

• Continuous Discovery Habits: Discover Products that Create Customer Value and Business Value: https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Discovery-Habits-Discover-Products/dp/1736633309

• Deutschland89 on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/deutschland-89-a4cf05f7-b4f2-44c7-84a1-4034671944b9

• The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81414665

• Love Is Blind on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80996601

• The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80189221

• Dragonboat: https://dragonboat.io/solution/product-operations/

• Vistaly: https://www.vistaly.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Super Bowl Champ and Green Bay Packers Hall of Famer, Ken Ruettgers, discusses censorship and trying to improve America's medical system in this episode.

Ken Ruettgers was born in Bakersfield, CA and attended Garces Memorial High School before heading to the University of Southern California (USC) on an athletic scholarship. Ken was a first-round draft choice (seven overall) of the Green Bay Packers and culminated a 12-year career with a Super Bowl season in 1996 (Super Bowl XXXI). Ruettgers and his family moved to Oregon when he took a job with Multnomah Publishers as editorial director. In 2000, he left publishing and started a none-profit, GamesOver.org, to assist athletes with the challenges of sport career transition. Ken currently is a tenured professor and teaches sociology at Central Oregon Community College and is the department chair for Social Sciences. Ken earned his undergraduate in business as well as an MBA. He holds a PhD in sociology from Oxford Graduate School. Ruettgers was inducted into the Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame in 2013. He is the author of “Homefield Advantage: A Dad’s Guide to the Power of Role Modeling”. Ken is married to Sheryl and they have three adult children.

There are all kinds of civics-class answers to that question. But how true are they? Could it be that we like to read about war, politics, and miscellaneous heartbreak simply because it's (gasp) entertaining?