product operations

Melissa Perri is the CEO of Produx Labs, a product management training organization; author of the seminal PM book The Build Trap; and a former Harvard Business School professor of product management. Denise Tilles is the CPO at Grocket, Melissa’s colleague at Produx Labs, and a seasoned product leader with over a decade of experience. Together they authored the new book Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale. In today’s episode, they share insights, strategies, and real-world experiences to master all things product ops. We discuss:

• What exactly product operations is

• The three pillars of the product ops role

• The biggest benefits of adding product ops to your organization

• Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

• How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

• Examples of companies that have implemented product ops well

• Who and how to hire for this role

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This entire episode is brought to you by Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-operations-melissa-perri-and-denise-tilles/#transcript

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Where to find Melissa Perri:

• X: https://twitter.com/lissijean

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/

• Website: https://produxlabs.com/

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Where to find Denise Tilles:

• X: https://twitter.com/dtilles

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisetilles/

• Website: https://www.denisetilles.com

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) About our guests, Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

(03:46) How common is the product operations role?

(07:41) The benefits of having a product ops person in your organization

(09:16) How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops

(11:44) The three pillars of the product ops role

(15:25) How user research fits in

(18:35) Why product ops will be an essential role for product managers to thrive

(24:24) Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own

(28:58) Project management vs. product ops

(29:44) The jobs of a product ops person

(37:38) Why the product ops role will never become obsolete

(39:31) How many product ops people you need

(45:13) First steps in building out a product ops team

(47:06) What to look for in your first hire

(51:11) Key skills needed for a product ops person

(57:29) Who product ops should report to

(59:50) An example of rolling out product ops at Athena Health

(1:09:35) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale: https://www.productoperations.com/

• Produx Labs: https://produxlabs.com

• How to create a winning product strategy | Melissa Perri: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy-melissa-perri/

• Blake Samic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakesamic/

• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X

• Athena Health: https://www.athenahealth.com/

• Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/

• PopSQL: https://popsql.com/

• Understanding the role of product ops | Christine Itwaru (Pendo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/

• Doodle: https://doodle.com/en/

• Stephanie Leue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-leue/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Dovetail: https://dovetail.com/

• Looker: https://cloud.google.com/looker/

• Brian Bhuta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbhuta/

• How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

• Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey-winters-pinterest-eventbrite-airbnb-tinder-canva-reddit-grubhub/

• Shared services model: https://www.gartner.com/en/finance/insights/shared-services-model

• Shintaro Matsui on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smatsui/

• Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/

• Jen Cardello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jencardello/

• Tim Davenport on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-davenport-28249b9/

• Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral: https://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Genius-Rivalry-Delusion-Billion-Dollar/dp/0593299752

• The Art of Action: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Action-10th-Anniversary/dp/1529376963

• Continuous Discovery Habits: Discover Products that Create Customer Value and Business Value: https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Discovery-Habits-Discover-Products/dp/1736633309

• Deutschland89 on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/deutschland-89-a4cf05f7-b4f2-44c7-84a1-4034671944b9

• The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81414665

• Love Is Blind on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80996601

• The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80189221

• Dragonboat: https://dragonboat.io/solution/product-operations/

• Vistaly: https://www.vistaly.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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Christine Itwaru is a longtime product operations leader at Pendo and more recently has taken on the larger role of Principal Strategist there. Before leading product ops, Christine spent 12 years in product management. In this episode, we delve into the rapidly growing field of product ops and discover how Christine is part of shaping the role industry-wide. She helps us define the role of product operations, what kind of person would be a good fit for the product ops role, when your company would benefit from product ops, and what red flags to look for if you decide to go down this path. 

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/#transcript

Where to find Christine Itwaru:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/christineitwaru

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christineitwaru/

• Website: https://theproductheart.com/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Ben Williams on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.podpage.com/lennys-podcast/how-snyk-built-a-product-led-growth-juggernaut-ben-williams-vp-of-product-at-snyk/

• Pendo: https://go.pendo.io/

• Marty Cagan on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-nature-of-product-marty-cagan-silicon-valley-product-group/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Looker: https://www.looker.com/

• Tray: https://tray.io/

• Zapier: https://zapier.com/

• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

• Casey Winters on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507/

• Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t: https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Eat-Last-Together-Others/dp/1591848016/

• The Product-Led Organization: Drive Growth by Putting Product at the Center of Your Customer Experience: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Led-Organization-Putting-Customer-Experience/dp/1119660874

• Product Roadmaps Relaunched: How to Set Direction while Embracing Uncertainty: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Roadmaps-Relaunched-Direction-Uncertainty/dp/149197172X/

• The Product Experience podcast: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/the-product-experience/

• Matilda the Musical: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3447590/

• Rise on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/rise/6Yv1uRnw2uAJ

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Seismic: https://seismic.com/

• Gong: https://www.gong.io/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Christine’s background

(02:34) How working with Ben Williams led Christine to Lenny’s Podcast

(05:02) The role of product ops in product management

(07:31) How 2019 became “the summer of product ops”

(11:19) The different ways product ops can assist product teams

(15:50) How Pendo used product ops to bring teams together and share data

(18:15) Where user research fits in 

(22:39) How product ops are being utilized—and not exclusively in B2B companies

(24:47) How to convince a product leader that you need product ops

(27:41) Why customer experience is the core of a PM’s role

(29:47) Who is doing the work of the product ops person before that role is created

(31:37) Christine’s response to Casey Winters’s take on ops teams

(37:40) Signs your company could benefit from a product ops team

(30:56) How a lack of transparency led to Pendo adding product ops

(46:11) The line between product ops and product marketing

(47:30) Who might be a good fit for a product ops role

(53:39) Red flags for product ops roles (that apply to any role) 

(54:08) How product teams are structured at Pendo

(57:18) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe