Poet Mary Oliver writes, “tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?” It’s a question Diana Dunbar Place is obsessed with. She’s the founder of Third Act Quest which helps guide folks as they’re figuring out this second arc of life—how we live, work, play and serve. We talk about leaps of faith, rising strong from lightning strike moments (looking at you, cancer) and connecting the dots to live a true and beautiful life.
QUEST 2024 - 1st Annual Third Act Summit - Click for info. and to get your ticket - limited to 100 women
333 Collective
Third Act Quest website
Diana Place/LinkedIn
Transcript:
Debra Hotaling (00:04):
Hello and welcome to the Dareful Project. I'm Debra Hotaling. The American poet, Mary Oliver has this terrific line. I'm going to read it to you. “Tell me what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?” And it's a question our guest Diana Place is absolutely obsessed with. She's the founder of Third Act Quest, which helps guide folks as they're figuring out the second arc of their life, how we live, how we work, how we play, and how we serve. Diana, welcome.
Diana Place (00:40):
Well, thank you Debra. I'm glad to be here with you.
Debra (00:43):
And before we talk about what we're doing, let's talk a little bit about how we got here, how you got here, what were the circumstances that got you started with Third Act Quest?
Diana (00:57):
Okay, so it was pretty clear to me. I'd spent a long career, as I call it, dancing on the edges of my passion. And I was in the process of building a business I'd been working on for about four years, and I was, that productivity junkie was alive in me and then all of a sudden, I call it the most what started as what I saw as three coinciding life disruptions. I later called lightning strike moments, right as I was about to turn 60, I got a cancer diagnosis, a pretty bad one. At the same time, I had to shut down that business. I was preparing to empty nest as my daughter headed off to college and I was turning 60. So I got through it and it's in the rear view mirror for me now. But what was the day? I will remember the day I decided to start Third Act Quest.
Diana (02:15):
These lightning strikes just like if lightning hits a beach, it turns into crystals. These lightning strikes completely cleared my deck and I sat thinking about life. And when you've almost lost it, you realize it's preciousness. So I started saying to myself, this is my third act. Okay, what am I going to do? I Googled it, saw this really cool talk by Jane Fonda talking about her third act, and I decided in that moment that I was going to share the stories of women who were living really beautiful, meaningful, joyful third acts into their late fifties, sixties, seventies, and in some case, eighties. So I started a series of annual storytelling events. But along the way I decided too that there was so much need for support and inspiration. I also did a number of other things, workshops and retreats like that. But it really started in that moment. And I like to say that when I look back on it, I see it as one of the greatest gifts of my life to have these three coinciding things that really literally stopped me in my tracks. And there was a great aha coming out of it as opposed to what I guess could have been a feeling of fear and complete remorse and victimhood. So I really feel grateful now for that moment. But thanks for asking. It is as clear as today is to me, that moment.
Debra (04:08):
It's interesting to think about such difficult challenges as being something that you're grateful for. I mean, that's a tough one because a lot of folks would've just sort of curled up in a ball and just sort of let it happen. But you had some tenacity. But going from that inspiration, that knowledge, two sides of questions. One, the work that you're doing and also just being an entrepreneur, how did you move from going, I've got to do something to actually inventing this work that you're doing? How did you actually start?
Diana (04:48):
Well, I will say, I'm going to go backwards a little bit. I'm not going to retrace my career. I'm 64 now, so that would take the whole of our time together. But basically I spent that time looking back and tracing that, what I like to call a thread that came through my life and what has happened a lot during my life. I had a long corporate career, but I danced in and out of sort of more corporate traditional what I think I was supposed to do and succeed. I was at America Online when it was happening, and I was senior vice president. I basically saw the thread was I enjoy that. I'd learn a lot, I'd get a lot out of it, but then I ditch it. And I did several times in my late twenties, early thirties, I started my own thing, which is cause marketing firm.
Diana (05:53):
Then I did a couple of other little startups along the way, but I went back and forth between corporate and entrepreneurial across my life. And then finally as many women past 50, well, I was a late in life mom, so I left the corporate world and decided to focus on her. So I did. I had several businesses. I started sort of all over the map, everything from a photography business to what was the business that I closed as after I got sick. So every time I tried on what I wanted to do, I realized that I like to be the one that decided to follow my heart and the way I wanted to create a business or be in business I didn't want to be a part of. And I'm sure many people listening to can relate. I didn't want to be a corporate drone, but I also didn't want to be under the demands and control of an organization I didn't believe in. So what better way to do it and start my own. So that's where it was all logical. And plus, I'll have to admit this, if I tried, and this is not a story of ageism, but if I tried at that age 60 years old, I really would have a hard time finding a role back in the corporate world. So there you go.
Debra (07:27):
And the people who join you for Third Act Quest, who are they and what you've discovered from their stories?
Diana (07:37):
You asked what I discovered about the people or about what I'm seeing in general.
Debra (07:43):
Talk about trends. What are you seeing in general? What has surprised you?
Diana (07:48):
I began the storytelling events with women and men, and I refined it lately to and have created a community that's women over 50. The trends I'm seeing relate predominantly to women, but also crossover to men's experiences at this time. I see a lot of women that even if they come to me saying, man, I got to figure out what's next. I've had it with my job, or I've just been pushed out of my job. I'm no longer needed, or I'm just ready to retire. And I said, so I see a lot of people who are really holding on. So that's one category. They hold onto an old fashioned storyline. They retire, they maybe jump on a board. And none of this is, I'm not maligning it, but it is the standard way that people have approached retirement over this generation and before. But there are a lot of people I feel holding on and feeling like they're almost preparing for a steady decline of their productivity, of their engagement, of their impact.
Diana (09:21):
I see a lot of uncertainty. They've worked their whole lives and they've dedicated it all to the job or the company or the initiative. And even the most amazingly talented can feel paralyzed when they try to figure out what's next. They haven't gone in, they haven't really dug down in their hearts just to feel what they would enjoy. So another category that goes along with this, a lot of self-judgment. I've talked to a lot of people about the internalized perfectionism, but also internalized ageism. I'm too old to start that. I could never do that. I see a lot of fear. I mean, fear is a big one.
Diana (10:10):
I feel that fear keeps us stuck and stuck to the storyline. And one of the things that I see counter to that, which is beautiful, sort of like a revolution of way people are thinking more and more is they're getting excited and they're understanding the gifts of this time of life, the resilience they've proven as they've encountered so many difficulties. And also, and this is what I love, and they learn to manage fear, fear's, real fear's in all of us. It keeps us from falling off a cliff, or it keeps us from sadly on the negative side, doing the things that really would bring us the most joy and meaning. So I'm seeing more and more people in this time of life saying, hello, this is my, to quote Mary Oliver, my one wild and precious life. So I am going to take some leaps of faith and I am going to embrace possibility instead of decline. I see a lot of curiosity and this positive revolution, I guess we could call it. I see a lot of curiosity. I see a lot of courage, and I see a lot of creativity in the ways people choose to live and the way they choose to love how they wear and what they do. I see a lot of emerging great creativity. So I'm seeing more and more of that. And I think that's the foundation of your podcast and your organization. So I know you can relate there too,
Debra (12:03):
But the holding onto that old story that is, man, it's deep within us. I always, I've thought about Barbie dolls, and when I was a kid, I had Barbie dolls and Barbie dolls helped me understand what it was like to be a teenager. And it felt like there were always models to figure out what I was going to be next. But I got to tell you, I feel like I need a Barbie doll for over 60 because I don't feel like there's any model how my parents and grandparents aged into, I think of them at 65, and it feels completely different than what I am. And it feels a little scary that you kind of don't have that.
Diana (12:48):
Well, it's interesting. So that works two ways, right? Yep. Oh my God, what should I be? But there's this other thing around possibility, and I mean, you've hit on something that I think is so important. I really agree with you, and that's why the storytelling events, I've probably, over the course of the several years I did it, we've interviewed about 50 women about just inventive ways to reinvent their lives. One of my favorites, I mean, I have so many favorites. One of my favorites is a woman, Melissa Davey, who you should actually speak with as well.
Diana (13:31):
I love the story. I'll tell it quickly. So she's 65. She has this fabulous career. She's very successful. She's advocating in DC, she's in something in the insurance industry. And she said they would've employed me until I was 75. They love me, I love them. But she said, one day I decided I don't want to die at my desk. And she won this opportunity to be on the set with a director of a film in her area. And then literally the next day after being on set, went in, quit her job and said, I'm making a film. So she created this really cool film called Beyond 60, which I think there are like 10 women profiled. And then she's about to release one called Climbing Into Life about Alex Honnold, the guy that did free solo, his mom who over 60 climbed El Capitan. So there's this interesting thing that, so yeah, what am I going to be, there's no role model for me necessarily, but I look at it as like, okay, open season.
Diana (14:45):
I mean, look at Diana Nyad. She was 64 when she, I mean her body was able at 28, but everything else, mostly her grit was there. And I think that's what comes with aging. So anyway, I want to mention one thing that's so important to me, and my mother just passed, so I feel like I can say this without her being hurt by this, but part of my personal inspiration was my grandmother. And I think you'll hear a lot about that from a lot of people. And my grandmother was not at all traditional in her sixties and beyond. She did wild ass stuff. She never said, never. She traveled to China, she went to Spain and decided to learn Spanish. Right before she went, she wrote a couple of books she painted. She was, no one told her no. And then my mother was the opposite, completely shut down from possibility. And I said, I want more women to feel like my grandmother and nobody to feel like my mother. That's part of my emotional driving force for what I'm doing.
Debra (16:06):
Love the idea of looking to our grandmothers. As you're saying that, I'm thinking I had very close relationships with both my grandparents and they were awesome. They were badass. And you think of all those women turn of the century, you look at pioneer women and other folks, and they did incredible things because no one told them no. They had to figure it out, right?
Diana (16:32):
Well, women's rights weren't there necessarily when our grandmother's around. But there's something about, I mean, I was born in 59, and there's something about I think that's a tough generation. A lot of women were really pigeonholed and told they had to be the Leave It to Beaver mom. And I am not saying it was perfect before them, but there's another film I'm going to mention by a woman, Sky Bergman called Lives Well Lived, which is all about these beautiful stories. Most of her people are in their seventies and eighties and even beyond, but they are still inspirational. So yeah, I think we need more role models, and I think we're getting them. That's what I'm excited about because I think younger women need to know that it doesn't, with so much talk about wrinkle cream and Botox and all this stuff, your face is going to get wrinkled. Yeah, your body's not going to work as well, but there's so much you can do. And happiness actually is proven to peak after 60. So I honestly think that this emergence of things like your Dareful project, my Third at Quest and other dozens and dozens of initiatives are going to help so much.
Debra (18:18):
What's the one thing that we all could do that you've learned from listening to stories and convening people together to figure out their third act? Is there one thing, the smallest thing that we could do this very day that would change us?
Diana (18:43):
So the one thing I'm going to mention is sort of foundational to opening up to possibility. That's really the key. And I would say that one thing is to choose to let go. Let go of beliefs and expectations. Let go of regrets and negative emotions and let go of fear. None of this is easy, but I like to say you and only you get to decide. You get to choose to embrace curiosity and unearth your passions, but you really have to let go first of a lot of stuff. And I was reading a beautiful book actually called Letting Go, and one of the things that the author who was just, I resonated with every word in his book, but he said, once you neutralize lies, the painful moments, the regrets that are embedded deep in you, they're the ones that trigger feelings. And he said, if you are aware of this, then you can release the actual feelings and then all those thoughts will also go away. So letting go is my one thing, and it isn't an easy one thing, but it's I think powerful to even think about.
Debra (20:28):
But as you're saying that, it reminds me being in corporate life, there were so many, God, the daily battles, they were so fierce, they were do or die. It felt like everything hinged on them, the alliances, the budget, there was all that stuff, and it just took up so much time and created so much anxiety. And now when you get out of that environment, you realize I have a lot of energy to go do some really interesting things that I was totally devoted to these sort of tribal warfare moments.
Diana (21:09):
Well, even if you work for a company that had a brilliant purpose, you were usually trapped in the battles that didn't allow you to attach to that. I mean, isn't that for you? I mean, I'm going to turn the question back to you, but I mean, isn't it our life, you see the end zone, you're going to leave this life, but oh my God, before you leave, isn't there just this craving, at least I've seen so much of this in people as we age, even more craving to have our life be meaningful, and even if it's only one person that benefits from our presence to have that sense of a purpose for what we do, whether we're an artist or whether we're a writer or musician or a philanthropist. There's so many ways. And yeah, the corporate world makes it hard for us to do that. Some of these visionary companies have pushed that mission down and really internalized it, but not all of them. I think there's a lot of room.
Debra (22:18):
But even the ones that have terrific missions, we're still human beings. And so we still get together in a room and still do all of that stuff. My husband reminds me, he has this great reminder that we talk about what is going to be our obit? What is someone going to say about us at the end? And then you work your way back from there. What do you got to do today to make sure that you leave that legacy?
Diana (22:43):
That's brilliant. That's a beautiful way of putting it. For many of us, our legacy, and it can be as simple as being the way we parent. So even if we're not discovering a cure for cancer or creating the best American novel, even if we just parent beautifully and we know that we're leaving our children who are doing good in the world, I mean, those kinds of legacy should uplift us to possibility. And it all starts with, as I said, letting go of crap, letting go of I should do this, I shouldn't do that. I should be this way. And just saying, who am I? Who really am I? And how can I have a joyful life, but also spread joy?
Debra (23:39):
And you don't know doing what you might think is a small thing everyone is watching. And so you do not know where you may have influence by being a good parent. Someone notices you who you may never meet again. It just may be just sitting on the other side of a restaurant and noticing. And so there's no small act when it's of what you're describing. I think it has tremendous impact.
Diana (24:08):
That's wonderful. So you're so right.
Debra (24:21):
And what you talk about with younger folks feeling uncertain. I think that that is impact that we have just by showing up every day and releasing that fear that you're talking about because they're really scared and they're like, you know what? I'm in my thirties and if it just keeps getting weirder and weirder, I don't know what I'm going to think about being in my sixties. And we know it's way better, right?
Diana (24:47):
Yes. Well, the thing that is more and more fascinating to me, and I'm going to try to figure out how to be more intergenerational in my gatherings and programs, my last storytelling event, most of the people were women over 50, but this one woman joined in her mid thirties and she emailed me afterward and she said, this is going to sound weird, but I'm actually looking forward to getting older now. Thank you so much. I was so afraid. Now I'm excited. So it's like that gave me goosebumps. And so figuring out the intergenerational connections that we can have, not just to teach them our wisdom, but to have them teach us their wisdom, that sort of mutual meet in the middle and share with each other is something I want to explore a lot more.
Debra (25:48):
I love that so much. So Diana, tell us more about Third Act Quest. What do you offer? We'll make sure that we put everything in the notes. Everyone's going to be able to find Diana and her terrific organization, but what do you love? What do you recommend? If someone wanted to sample it, how would you guide them?
Diana (26:09):
Okay, so Third Act Quest is all about inspiring in reframing the way we look at aging. I'm not an activist working out in the world to try to change it in the corporate or the media or anything like that, though I care about that and align with a lot of people that are doing that. Third Aquest is more about women over 50 and potentially in the future, younger women to really embrace this time of life. They're one wild and precious life. Thank you Mary Oliver. We do a number of things. I have a newsletter like a lot of us, I send out emails. I have a really nice list of people who engage with me there, and that's all they do. And then I've got also a couple of other really exciting things happening. As I mentioned, the annual storytelling event has shifted into what I'm now calling the first annual third Act summit next May. It's called Quest 2024. As you can tell, I love the word quest and the whole concept of a quest.
Diana (27:21):
So I'm excited for that. I've got about 25 women that are going to come speak some really cool topics around creative living, creating your life. And then at the core, and this has really been where I've put a lot of my energy, is I started a couple of years ago a community called the 333 Collective. And that is basically stemming from the craving that I witnessed in my own community and the women I was encountering for really meaningful, deep connection with other women at this time of life, but not just at this time of life, but women who share their passion and excitement about it.
Diana (28:13):
They may not know exactly how they're going to map out their third act, but they are excited to meet with other women who want to do that and not just coast along, as you say, stick to the story. And I'm thrilled at the impact we're starting to have just within that community. It's a membership or a private kind of a community, but it's growing and it's really fun. We also do Third Act Quest also does at least one trip or retreat a year. I'm ideally having three each year. And last year we went to the Camino de Santiago and took a beautiful journey there together. And next fall I'm planning a trip to Guatemala to a place called Casa Paloma, which is a magical place on Lake Lan. And so that'll be a blend of some introspection, but also exploration, which I think travel does for us. So I will admit that's just fun being an entrepreneur because I started off with a vision and have meandered and expanded, and in some cases Covid had me contract and create online workshops and things like that. But now I'm really focused in on this community and these in-person gatherings.
Debra (29:49):
Oh, that sounds amazing. In Guatemala, man, that sounds super exciting.
Diana (29:54):
You need to look up Casa Paloma. Actually, Joyce Maynard, who is the keynote speaker at Quest 2024 next May, created that part of her beautiful creation of life, and it's magical there. So I can't wait. In fact, I'm going tomorrow.
Debra (30:15):
Okay, you're going to have to report back.
Diana (30:17):
I have to do a site visit.
Debra (30:18):
Of course you do. Yes, you do. We're all about site visits now for next year's summit. Is there still space available if folks are interested in joining you?
Diana (30:29):
Yes, there is. I just opened up the registration about a week ago. I am limiting it to a hundred women and then the 25 speakers on top of that. So it'll be 125 of us. So I have an early registration offer that's good through January 15th. So that's quite a bit of a savings. And part of my desire is to really show people what the three collective is. Most of our speakers are members, so it'll give people an idea of the kind of things that we do and the kind of women that are in it. And it's going to be on the coast of Rhode Island in this magical little town called Bristol, which is about half hour from Newport, Rhode Island.
Debra (31:20):
That all sounds lovely. And you can also find Diana, and can you find Third Act Quest also on LinkedIn?
Diana (31:28):
Well, yes, but I spend most time under my own name, my personal LinkedIn, because I've had LinkedIn for so many over 20 years, so that's much more of my place.
Debra (31:41):
So listeners and viewers, if you're interested and who would not want to go do all of this with the fabulous Diana, please make sure that you check out her site. Please check out Third Act Quest and maybe we will all see each other in Guatemala next year.
Diana (31:57):
Please come join us. I'd love it. Such a pleasure, Debra, and I love what you do and it's been such a joy to speak with you.
Debra (32:08):
Well, thank you, Diana. Thank you for all the work that you're doing with Third Act Quest, and we're going to loop back because we're going to want to hear how everything is going.
Diana (32:18):
Wonderful.
Debra (32:19):
Thanks again.
Diana (32:20):
Have a great day.
Debra (32:21):
Thanks for listening to the Dareful Project. Please follow, like and leave a review. It really helps. We're on all your favorite platforms, Spotify, apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, audible, tune in Amazon Music, Stitcher, SoundCloud, and YouTube. And to connect, you can email me at debra@darefulone.com. That's Debra, D-E-B-R-A at Dareful one. That's with the number one.com. Thanks for listening.
