Podcast Summary
The roots of the Syrian civil war and the rise of ISIS: The failure of radical hopes during the Arab Spring led to the rise of religious extremists and moderate Islamists in Syria, contributing to the complexities of the Syrian civil war and the emergence of ISIS.
The Syrian civil war and the rise of ISIS are complex issues with deep historical roots. Michael Weiss, a senior editor at the Daily Beast and co-author of the New York Times bestseller "ISIS, Inside the Army of Terror," shared his extensive knowledge on these topics during a conversation on the Making Sense podcast. Weiss began covering the Middle East over a decade ago, focusing on the Israel-Palestine conflict and the Arab Spring. When Syria's uprising against the government started, he was tasked with assessing the situation and found that the earliest protests were not in Dera'a but in Damascus itself. He noted that the failure of radical hopes during the Arab Spring, as seen in Egypt and Tunisia, led to the rise of religious extremists and so-called moderate Islamists in Syria. The conversation highlighted the importance of understanding the nuances of US foreign policy and the war on terror in the context of these complex conflicts.
The history of jihadist insurgencies in Syria and Iraq: The complex relationship between terror groups and state actors in Syria and Iraq has led to the rise of extremist groups through government efforts to counter internal and external threats, resulting in a web of historical, political, and ideological factors contributing to their power.
The Syrian uprising was led by individuals with varying visions for a post-Assad Syria, but what often gets overlooked is the long history of jihadist insurgencies in the region, with groups like Al Qaeda playing a significant role. The relationship between terror groups and state actors is a complex one, and in the case of Syria and Iraq, governments like those of Assad and Saddam Hussein have inadvertently contributed to the rise of extremist groups through their efforts to counter internal and external threats. For instance, Saddam Hussein's Islamic Faith Campaign in the aftermath of the Gulf War inadvertently led to the spread of Salafism, which later manifested in the anti-American and anti-Iraqi insurgency and, eventually, in the rise of ISIS. Many former regime elements, including high-ranking military officials and intelligence agents, have found their way into the ranks of ISIS, making the conflict a complex web of interconnected historical, political, and ideological factors.
Understanding ISIS: Religion and Politics: ISIS's actions are driven by a complex mix of religious and political motivations, involving both genuine believers and opportunistic ex-Baathists. Examining the role of leaders like Al Baghdadi and external actors is crucial to understanding the group's actions.
The complex situation with ISIS involves both religious and political motivations. While some members may not be genuinely religious, they join and are effective due to the deeply held beliefs of the majority. The presence of ex-Baathists, some of whom may be apostates, raises questions about conversion or indifference from leaders like Al Baghdadi. His absolute belief in the clash of armies of Rome and Islam underscores the importance of religious ideology in driving the group's actions. The involvement of external actors like Russia and Saudi Arabia in exporting jihadists adds another layer to the complexity. Ultimately, understanding ISIS requires examining the intersection of religious and political factors.
The complexities of ISIS's relationship with secular and religious ideologies: ISIS's relationship with secular and religious ideologies is complex, influenced by factors like radicalization, chaos, and personal experiences. States like Syria and Russia support ISIS for their own interests, making it a choice between a secular war criminal and extremist groups.
The complexities of ideologies and beliefs, even for those who claim to adhere to a pure or secular ideology, can be influenced by various factors, including radicalization, chaos, and personal experiences. This is evident in the case of ISIS and its relationship with secular and religious ideologies. Additionally, it's important to note that ISIS does not exist in a vacuum and has state accomplices, such as Syria and Russia, which support it for their own interests. These states are using ISIS to further their goals of depriving the West of attractive alternatives to their dictatorships, making it a stark choice between a secular war criminal and extremist groups. The West must be aware of this and recognize the danger of extremist groups competing through terror and bloodshed.
ISIS's success rooted in religion, sociology, and politics: ISIS gains support through deals with tribes, strict interpretation of Islam, and harsh tactics, but faces backlash from some communities
ISIS's success in gaining support and spreading is due to a complex interplay of religion, sociology, and political dynamics. ISIS has found fertile ground in areas with Arab tribes and confederations of families that span across borders, particularly in the Euphrates River Valley. These tribes have historically made deals with the dominant power in the region to ensure their daily needs are met. ISIS, like previous rulers, offers a deal to these tribes, and in the current context, there is no credible non-sectarian force to counter ISIS. Additionally, ISIS's appeal is rooted in their strict interpretation of Islam, which resonates with some Sunni communities. ISIS's tactics, such as imposing a harsh version of Sharia law and committing atrocities against perceived enemies, have also contributed to their appeal. However, it's important to note that ISIS is not invincible and their tactics have led to backlash from some communities. The situation is complex, and understanding it requires recognizing the interconnectedness of religious, sociological, and political factors.
The Role of Takfirism in Middle Eastern Conflict: Takfirism, an ideology that declares other Muslims as apostates, fuels Middle Eastern conflict by justifying violence against both Sunni and Shia Muslims, but not all Takfiri groups or individuals hold the same beliefs or engage in the same level of violence.
The ideology of Takfirism, which involves declaring other Muslims as apostates deserving of death, plays a significant role in fueling the extreme violence and sectarian conflict in the Middle East. This ideology, which is practiced by groups like ISIS, has been used to justify the targeting of both Sunni and Shia Muslims, contributing to the cycle of violence and radicalization. However, it's important to note that not all individuals or groups who identify as Takfiri hold the same beliefs or engage in the same level of violence. For instance, Osama bin Laden disagreed with the genocidal tactics of Abu Musa Al Zarqawi and his Al Qaeda in Iraq (later ISIS), who aimed to exterminate Shia Muslims to gain support from Sunni Muslims worldwide and turn Iraq into a total sectarian war. This conflict between different interpretations of Takfirism highlights the complexity of the issue and the need for a nuanced understanding of the motivations and actions of various extremist groups in the region.
ISIS's brutal methods and oil wealth made them the dominant extremist group in Iraq: ISIS, led by Zarqawi, radicalized Shia population and sold ancient artifacts to fund their sophisticated operations, aiming to build a legitimate caliphate
The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) emerged as the dominant extremist group in Iraq due to its brutal methods and wealth from controlling oil resources. Zarqawi, an early leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, aimed to radicalize the Shia population and precipitate a larger conflict involving Mujahideen from around the world. ISIS's control of ancient artifacts and their justification for their destruction or sale highlights their sophisticated and complex operations, which extend beyond being just a guerrilla insurgency. Despite recent reports of significant territorial losses, ISIS continues to believe in their project of building a legitimate caliphate.
ISIS's Influence Beyond Borders: ISIS continues to inspire terrorism abroad through affiliate organizations and pledges of allegiance, controlling vast territories in Africa and bringing them closer to Europe.
While ISIS has lost some significant territory in Syria and Iraq, their influence extends far beyond these borders through affiliate organizations and pledges of allegiance. This expansion has given ISIS control over vast territories in Africa, such as in Libya and West Africa, and brings them closer to Europe. ISIS's ideology and ability to inspire remote radicalization pose a significant threat for acts of terrorism abroad. Despite their losses, ISIS continues to inspire operatives due to their perceived success and ultraviolence, making their state-building efforts crucial for their survival.
ISIS as a Successful State: ISIS thrives as a state offering salaries, subsidies, and a sense of belonging to recruits. They collect taxes and operate like a mafia, making most of their money through extortion, not oil sales.
ISIS's success in recruiting fighters and spreading terror is linked to their perceived success as a state. They offer salaries, subsidies, and a sense of belonging to those who join them. ISIS makes most of their money through taxation and surcharges, not oil sales as commonly believed. Their control over territory allows them to collect taxes from both Muslims and non-Muslims. ISIS operates like a mafia, taking people's houses, businesses, and assets if they resist or flee. Affiliate groups and lone wolf attacks are a significant concern as anyone with an Internet connection can join the global jihadist insurgency. However, the allure of ISIS as a successful state makes it difficult to defeat them entirely. A humiliating and decisive defeat would require state-building efforts, addressing the root causes of radicalization, and minimizing collateral damage. The US and its allies have not yet fully committed to this approach.
ISIS's persuasive narrative is built on perceived US conspiracy against Sunni Muslims: ISIS's narrative gained traction due to Sunni feelings of abandonment and victimization, accusing US of favoring Shia and Iran, positioning themselves as Sunni Islam defenders, and drawing moral equivalence with enemies.
ISIS's persuasive narrative stems from the perceived conspiracy against Sunni Muslims in the Middle East, as they see it, led by the United States and its allies. This narrative gained traction due to the experiences of Sunni communities, who have felt abandoned and victimized by the Syrian conflict and the US-led interventions in Iraq. ISIS exploited this sentiment, accusing the US and its allies of favoring Shia Muslims and Iran, and positioning themselves as the defenders of Sunni Islam. The moral equivalence drawn by ISIS between their actions and those of their enemies, such as the Assad regime and its militias, added credibility to their narrative. This compelling narrative has contributed to the recruitment of thousands of Sunni Muslims into the ranks of ISIS and other extremist groups.
Understanding Middle East conflict dynamics: Nuanced motivations and actions of Shia and Sunni groups complicate Western efforts to counter ISIS propaganda, rooted in historical and sectarian tensions.
The complex dynamics of the Middle East conflict, as exemplified in the interviews given by former President Obama, reveal a nuanced understanding of the motivations and actions of both Shia and Sunni groups. While ISIS's atrocities are undeniably horrific, the way they use propaganda to counteract military actions by regional powers, particularly against Muslim civilians, effectively fuels their recruitment efforts. This dynamic, rooted in historical and sectarian tensions, can make it challenging for Western governments to effectively counter ISIS's narrative and propaganda. The failure to understand the context and motivations behind these actions can lead to a focus on the violent aspects of ISIS's propaganda, while overlooking the strategic messaging that drives their recruitment and support.
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