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    319. Detransition: The Wounds that Won't Heal | Chloe Cole

    enJanuary 03, 2023
    What are the emotional impacts of puberty on women?
    How does early puberty affect mental health risks?
    What personal challenges did Chloe face during her transition?
    What deficiencies exist in adolescent psychological evaluations during transition?
    How do societal messages influence self-perception in women?

    Podcast Summary

    • Impact of Puberty on Women's Emotional ExperiencePuberty can heighten women's emotional sensitivity, increasing vulnerability to depression and anxiety, especially during transition periods.

      The onset of puberty can significantly impact the emotional experience of individuals, particularly women, leading to increased sensitivity to negative emotions. This is due to a combination of factors including physical strength differences, women's vulnerability in reproduction, and the primary responsibility for infant care. These factors make women more susceptible to depression and anxiety, and early puberty can further exacerbate these emotions due to the added complexity of physiological transformation at a young age. Chloe, an 18-year-old transitioner, shared her experience of going through this process at a young age and the emotional challenges she faced during and after her transition.

    • Growing up: A challenging time for girls, especially those on the autistic spectrumUnderstanding and validating the unique experiences of girls, including those on the autistic spectrum, is crucial for their emotional well-being.

      Growing up, particularly for girls, can be a challenging time marked by body image issues, socialization pressures, and the onset of puberty. These experiences can be even more intense for those who are on the autistic spectrum, as they may have a harder time communicating with and fitting in with their peers. The societal emphasis on certain body types and gender roles can further exacerbate feelings of distress and non-conformity. It's important to remember that these experiences are not unique, and while they may be more pronounced for some, they are a normal part of growing up for many. The biggest difference between males and females, particularly in egalitarian societies, is orientation of interest, with women being more people-oriented and men being more thing-oriented. Individuals on the autistic spectrum, like the speaker, may have a stronger interest in things and struggle with understanding others' perspectives. This doesn't make their experiences any less valid or important.

    • Common challenges during adolescence for girls, including body image issues and negative emotions, can be amplified for gender dysphoric teenagers.Approach challenges faced by gender dysphoric teenagers with care and support, as most settle into their biological identity as they age, and be cautious in assuming suicide risk based on gender dysphoria alone.

      The challenges faced during adolescence, such as self-consciousness, body image issues, and increased negative emotions like depression and anxiety, are common experiences for many teenagers, especially girls. These issues can be exacerbated by the onset of puberty and societal pressures. The proclivity towards these issues is linked to normal development, and research shows that most gender dysphoric children settle into their biological identity as they grow older. It's important to approach these issues with care and support, rather than rushing into drastic measures. Additionally, it's worth noting that mental health professionals should be cautious in making assumptions about suicide risk based on gender dysphoria, as the primary risk factor is the general proclivity towards negative emotions. The studies conducted by Dr. Ken Zucker before the politicization of the issue showed that most gender dysphoric children, who are also prone to depression and anxiety, settle into their biological identity as they age and often adopt a homosexual orientation.

    • Understanding the Complexity of Sexual Orientation and Gender IdentityResearch suggests women may be more broadly attracted, individuals with autism and creativity may question gender, societal pressures and personal experiences impact understanding of sexual orientation and gender identity.

      Sexual orientation and gender identity are complex and distinct aspects of a person's identity. The speaker shares their personal experience of having gender dysphoria despite identifying as mostly heterosexual. They also discuss how research suggests that women may be more broadly attracted to both men and women than men are to women, challenging the notion that co-attraction to the same sex indicates a lack of femininity. The speaker also reflects on their own experiences with autism and creativity, suggesting that individuals with social difficulties, negative emotions, and creative tendencies may be more likely to question their gender identity. Lastly, the speaker discusses how their use of social media, particularly Instagram, worsened their body image issues and contributed to their gender dysphoria. In summary, this discussion highlights the complexity of sexual orientation and gender identity, and how various factors, including societal pressures and personal experiences, can impact one's understanding of these aspects of self.

    • Feeling insecure about body image during adolescenceSocietal messages and expectations can negatively impact self-perception during adolescence, leading to insecurities about body image and rejection of womanhood.

      During adolescence, the speaker felt insecure about her body image and compared herself negatively to other women due to societal expectations and conversations. She also absorbed negative messages about womanhood from feminist content, leading her to reject the idea of growing up to be a woman. However, it's important to note that these negative feelings were not necessarily a result of patriarchal oppression, as some research suggests that women in more egalitarian societies experience higher levels of negative emotions. Additionally, men are generally less choosy when it comes to evaluating physical attractiveness, meaning the speaker's concerns about her body type may not have hindered her ability to be attractive in a reasonable society. Overall, this experience highlights the impact of societal messages and expectations on individual self-perception and the importance of promoting positive messages about womanhood.

    • Social media's impact on self-perception during vulnerable periodsDiscovering supportive communities and challenging limiting beliefs online can lead to improved self-worth and acceptance.

      Social media platforms like Instagram can significantly impact our self-perception, particularly during vulnerable periods in our lives. The speaker's experience of feeling isolated and misunderstood during middle school led them to seek validation and community online. However, the constant exposure to idealized body images and negative messaging about femininity and motherhood left them feeling even more disconnected. It wasn't until they discovered feminist and LGBTQ+ content that they began to see themselves and their experiences reflected in a positive light. This newfound sense of community and acceptance helped the speaker reconsider their beliefs about femininity, motherhood, and self-worth. Overall, the discussion highlights the importance of finding supportive communities and challenging limiting beliefs, especially during formative years.

    • Validation through online contentOnline resources can offer validation and a sense of belonging to those questioning their gender identity, but a thorough therapeutic process involves understanding the root causes and offering appropriate support.

      The discovery of online content affirming non-traditional gender identities provided a sense of achievement and a new pathway for an individual who had long questioned their gender identity. This content validated their feelings and offered a solution to their internal struggles. However, the therapeutic process should ideally involve a thorough exploration of the reasons behind the individual's feelings and a discussion on potential solutions. The first question a therapist should ask is why the person is seeking help, followed by whether there is an underlying cause, and finally, what can be done about it. Affirming someone's identity is different from understanding the root causes and offering appropriate support.

    • Exploring gender identity with care and complexityTherapists should help clients understand their gender identity journey, not just validate it. Safe and supportive environments are essential for thorough exploration and growth.

      The therapeutic process for individuals questioning their gender identity should involve a thorough exploration of their experiences and challenges, rather than a hasty acceptance of their self-identified gender. The therapist's role is to help the client understand the complexities of their situation and offer non-harmful solutions, not to simply validate their self-identification and move towards medical interventions. Unfortunately, some therapists may be required by law to affirm a client's gender identity without proper exploration, which can lead to a lack of beneficial therapeutic process. It's crucial for individuals to have a safe and supportive environment to delve into their feelings and experiences, allowing them to gain a better understanding of their needs and how to move forward.

    • Misconceptions about medical transition for gender dysphoriaDespite common beliefs, there's no solid evidence that medical transition reduces suicide risk or is the only alternative for transgender individuals experiencing dysphoria. It's essential for healthcare professionals to provide accurate and evidence-based information to help families make informed decisions.

      The information provided to the speaker and their parents about the necessity and safety of medical transition for gender dysphoria, including the low regret rate and suicide risk, was not based on solid evidence. The American Psychological Association acknowledges the lack of long-term studies on transgender individuals due to the newness of treatment regimens and the low base rate of transgender dysphoria. There is also no evidence that transitioning reduces suicide risk or that there are no alternatives to transition or suicide. Gender dysphoria is associated with negative emotions, depression, and anxiety, which are the primary drivers of suicidal ideation. The idea that transitioning is the only means of treating dysphoria and that not allowing it could lead to suicide is a harmful and misleading statement. It's crucial for medical professionals to provide accurate and evidence-based information to parents and children in these situations to help them make informed decisions.

    • Social and emotional challenges in gender transitionTransitioning involves more than physical changes. Social ostracism and bullying can occur, but practical steps and behavioral changes can increase confidence and strength. Mental health support is crucial to navigate emotional and social aspects.

      During the early stages of transitioning, it's essential to consider the social and emotional implications beyond just the physical changes. In this case, the individual experienced social ostracism and bullying after starting hormonal treatment, despite having a vision of increased confidence and strength. However, it's crucial to understand that these goals can be achieved through practical steps and behavioral changes, rather than relying solely on hormonal transformation. Additionally, the assumption that being a man is a better pathway to these goals is not valid, as there are physiological impediments and significant technical challenges to achieving a full transition. It's essential to approach the process with a comprehensive understanding of the potential challenges and to seek support from mental health professionals to navigate the complex emotional and social aspects of transitioning.

    • Pressured Transition at a Young AgeRushing into gender transition without proper exploration and consideration can lead to a fractured sense of identity and missed social experiences.

      The decision to undergo gender transition at a young age, without adequate exploration of the potential consequences and without thorough consideration of one's sense of self, can lead to a fractured sense of identity and missed social experiences. The individual in this discussion felt pressured by therapists and societal expectations to believe that transition would make them whole, but instead, it led to further confusion and missed opportunities for socialization and healthy relationships. Additionally, there was a sexual element to the individual's motivations for transition, which they acknowledge but find uncomfortable to discuss in detail. It's important to approach gender transition with careful consideration and thorough exploration of one's identity and motivations.

    • Exploring the Complex Relationship Between Fantasy and RealityFantasies are a normal part of human imagination, but acting them out can lead to problematic consequences. Hormonal treatments can bring positive effects like increased confidence, but also negative ones like addiction and depression.

      While fantasy and real life differ, having fantasies does not necessarily indicate a pathological condition. The human capacity for imagination allows us to explore various scenarios beyond our actual experiences. However, acting out fantasies can be problematic, and social norms help us distinguish between fantasy and reality. The speaker's experience with hormonal treatment led to increased confidence, self-assurance, and heightened sex drive, but also negative consequences such as addiction to porn, unhealthy relationships with sexuality, depression, and urinary tract issues. The complexity of these effects highlights the importance of considering both the positive and negative aspects of hormonal treatments.

    • Experience of Transgender Individual with Hormone Replacement TherapyTransgender individuals need comprehensive and transparent information about hormone replacement therapy risks and side effects. Safe spaces and support are crucial for survivors of sexual assault.

      The individual's experience with hormone replacement therapy included unexpected side effects and emotional trauma, which were not disclosed in their consent forms. At a young age, they were sexually assaulted while on testosterone, adding to their feelings of isolation and lack of support. The assault, perpetrated by a bully, left them fearing for their safety and further compounded their desire to conform to a male identity. In response, they resorted to binding their chest for several years before undergoing a mastectomy. This experience highlights the importance of comprehensive and transparent information about the potential risks and side effects of medical treatments, especially for vulnerable populations like transgender individuals. It also underscores the need for schools and communities to address bullying and create safe spaces for survivors of sexual assault.

    • Negligence in addressing mental health during gender transitionFailure to assess mental health risks during gender transition can lead to tragic consequences, including suicidal thoughts and the decision to undergo surgery, despite undiagnosed depression and social anxiety.

      The lack of thorough psychological evaluations and proper consideration of mental health concerns during the process of hormonal transformation and gender affirming surgery for adolescents is a significant issue. The speaker's personal experience, marked by undiagnosed depression and social anxiety, led to suicidal thoughts and the decision to undergo surgery. However, the medical professionals involved failed to adequately assess the mental health risks, and even prescribed medication with known risks for suicidal thoughts. This dereliction of duty borders on criminal negligence and highlights the need for more comprehensive and nuanced approaches to addressing the complex psychological needs of adolescents during gender transition.

    • Feelings of isolation and permanence during young gender affirming surgeryTransitioning at a young age brings mixed emotions, including relief and happiness but also insecurities and body image issues. The permanence of decisions can be a concern, and the physical changes may bring new challenges.

      The experience of undergoing gender affirming surgery at a young age can bring about a mix of emotions, from relief and happiness to insecurity and body image issues. The speaker, who transitioned from female to male starting at age 14, shares how seeing younger peers undergo similar procedures made him feel less alone, but also raised concerns about the permanence of his decisions. The double mastectomy he underwent at age 15 resulted in a loss of breast shape and sensation, as well as scars and markings that added to his feelings of incongruence between his masculine features and his female body. Despite initial happiness and relief, the reality of his changed body brought about new challenges and insecurities. It's important to note that every individual's experience with gender affirming surgery is unique, and this account should not be taken as representative of all experiences.

    • The Complex Consequences of Gender Affirming SurgeryIndividuals undergoing gender affirming surgery may experience profound and lasting physical and emotional consequences, including loss of sensation and the inability to breastfeed, which can impact future family planning and relationships.

      The physical and emotional consequences of gender affirming surgery can be profound and complex. The individual in this discussion underwent a double mastectomy as part of their gender transition, but was left with grafts that lacked sensation and felt disconnected from their body. This loss of sensation and the inability to breastfeed were long-term consequences that went beyond the physical alteration of their appearance. The realization of the importance of breastfeeding and the physical touch it provides in child development led the individual to question their decision to undergo the surgery. They felt a deep sense of loss for the ability to provide that love and connection to future children. This experience highlights the importance of considering the long-term implications of gender affirming surgery and the complex interplay between body image, identity, and potential future family planning.

    • The speaker's desire for a family led her to reverse her gender transitionDespite the challenges, the speaker remains hopeful about having a family, a common goal for many women in their late 20s

      The speaker's desire to have children emerged as a significant factor in her decision to reverse her gender transition, which she had started at a young age. The isolation and stress caused by the pandemic allowed her to reflect and consider her future, leading her to realize that having a family was important to her. Despite the challenges she faced with her fertility and hormonal treatment, she remains hopeful. It's worth noting that the desire to have children often becomes a primary goal for many women in their late 20s, even for high achievers.

    • The Impact of Childhood Play on Future Identities and SkillsPlaying with dolls as a child can contribute to the development of nurturing and caregiving skills essential for women. Acknowledging and addressing unique challenges faced during gender journeys is crucial for compassionate and informed healthcare.

      The experiences of childhood play a significant role in shaping our future identities and aspirations. The discussion highlights how playing with dolls as a child, which is a common behavior among young girls, can contribute to the development of nurturing and caregiving skills that are essential for women. The speaker also shares her personal experience of transitioning and detransitioning, emphasizing the lack of guidance and support she received during the process. Despite facing opposition and a lack of resources, she decided to speak out publicly about her experience and eventually took legal action. The conversation underscores the importance of acknowledging and addressing the unique challenges faced by individuals during their gender journey, and the need for healthcare professionals to provide compassionate and informed care.

    • The importance of comprehensive consent for transgender youthTransgender youth deserve thorough and informative discussions about potential complications and long-term effects before undergoing medical treatments and hormone therapy.

      The consent process for transgender youth undergoing medical treatments and hormone therapy should be more comprehensive and informative. The speaker regrets starting the process at a young age and feels they weren't fully informed of the potential complications and long-term effects. They also believe that a deeper investigation into their background and a more detailed discussion of all available options should have taken place before making any decisions. The speaker is currently experiencing various complications from the surgery and hormone therapy, and feels a sense of responsibility to speak out for those who may be going through similar experiences. They are in the process of seeking legal action for what they believe to be medical and counseling malpractice.

    • Minor's Regret: Chloe's Gender Transition ExperienceChloe's regretful experience of gender transition as a minor highlights the need for proper care, consideration, and alternative therapeutic options for minors undergoing gender transition. Legal actions against medical professionals involved in controversial procedures are on the rise.

      The speaker, Chloe, shares her experience of undergoing gender transition as a minor, which she now regrets due to the emotional and physical harm caused. She is currently taking legal action against her healthcare provider, hospital, surgeon, gender specialist, and endocrinologist for the mishandling of her case. Chloe's story highlights the importance of proper care and consideration for minors undergoing gender transition, as well as the availability of alternative therapeutic options. The situation also underscores the potential legal and societal repercussions for medical professionals involved in such cases. The conversation also touches upon the response Chloe has received from gender ideologues and activists regarding her decision to detransition. The discussion concludes with a hopeful outlook that the tide is turning against the medical community for their role in these controversial procedures, with potential legal actions and reparations on the horizon.

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    https://www.amazon.com/War-West-Douglas-Murray/dp/0063162024

     

    “The Strange Death of Europe” https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472958055

     

    On X https://x.com/DouglasKMurray?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

     

    On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/douglaskmurray/?hl=en

     

    On Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DouglasKMurrayOfficial/

     

    On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@douglasmurray

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    Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with ex-high priestess of the Church of Satan and daughter of Anton LaVey, Zeena Schreck. They discuss her upbringing in the church, the pathology of her mother and father, how and why she severed ties, and the spirituality she has come to know today.

     

    Zeena Schreck is a Berlin-based interdisciplinary artist, musician, and writer. Prior to her solo music career, she was musical co-director and graphic art designer for the experimental musical project Radio Werewolf during its most prolific European phase. She is also an ordained Tibetan Buddhist yogini and leading Western teacher of Buddhist meditation, spiritual awakening, and the nature of mind. She brings to her creative work a lifetime's experience and expertise in both ancient magical traditions as well as still-living, unbroken Tibetan Buddhist traditions. She expatriated from the U.S. in 1990, living first in Vienna, Austria, and since 1999 in Berlin, Germany.

     

     

    - Links -

     

    For Zeena Schreck:

     

    Website and blog https://www.zeenaschreck.com/blog

     

    FAQ https://www.zeenaschreck.com/general-info.html

     

    Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeena_Schreck

     

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/zeenaschreck_art/

     

    Bandcamp https://zeenaschreck.bandcamp.com/

     

    YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/ZeenaSchreckOfficial

     

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ZEENA.Official.ZeenaSchreck

     

    Etsy https://www.etsy.com/de/shop/KCHforZeenaSchreck

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