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    88 | Neil Shubin on Evolution, Genes, and Dramatic Transitions

    enMarch 16, 2020
    What is the significance of Tiktaalik in evolution?
    How does natural selection influence the process of evolution?
    What adaptations did Tiktaalik possess for terrestrial living?
    How do cognitive abilities come with trade-offs for humans?
    What future challenges might humans face in their evolution?

    Podcast Summary

    • Understanding the evolution of fish into amphibiansThrough the study of transitional fossils and DNA, we're uncovering the mechanisms behind the evolution of fish into amphibians. Evolution is a continuous process driven by natural selection, and now with technology, we can make intentional changes to DNA, making the process faster and more intentional.

      Evolution is a continuous process of change driven by natural selection and major transitions, which can occur gradually or rapidly. Neil Shubin, an evolutionary biologist, is known for his research on the transitional fossil Tiktaalik, which represents a crucial stage in the evolution of fish into amphibians. Shubin's work combines paleontology and molecular biology to understand how changes in DNA lead to these transitions. The field is exciting because we are still learning about the mechanisms behind these changes, and now, with advances in technology, we have the ability to make intentional changes in DNA, making the process of evolution faster and more intentional. Evolution is not teleological, meaning it doesn't have a predetermined goal or future direction. Instead, it's a result of random mutations and natural selection. Overall, the study of evolution continues to provide new insights into the natural world and our place in it.

    • The misconception of 'missing links' in evolutionDespite many discoveries, the linear 'missing links' narrative of evolution is misleading. Evolution is a complex, branching bush of change, and transitional forms like Tiktaalik challenge our understanding of the web of life.

      The concept of "missing links" in evolution is a misconception due to the assumption that evolution follows a linear, ladder-like path. However, evolution is not a straight line but a hugely branching bush of change. The term "missing links" implies that there are gaps in the fossil record, but in reality, many transitional forms have been discovered. Neal Shubin, a paleontologist, shares his personal experience of being drawn into the field by the puzzle of understanding the great transitions in evolution, including the transition from fish to land dwellers. He describes how the discovery of Tiktaalik, a fossil found during his graduate studies, helped challenge the linear narrative of evolution. Tiktaalik was a fish with adaptations for living on land, providing evidence of the complex and messy nature of evolution. The discovery of such transitional forms continues to fuel new questions and advance our understanding of the complex web of life.

    • Finding transitional fossils: A systematic approachThe search for transitional fossils requires a systematic approach, including finding rocks of the right age, type, and accessibility. Persistence and application of established methods are crucial in overcoming challenges.

      Finding transitional fossils, like those between fish and limbed animals (tetrapods), requires a systematic approach. This approach includes looking for rocks of the right age, type, and accessibility. The speaker, a paleontologist, shared their personal experience of this process, which involved searching for Devonian age rocks in Pennsylvania and later in the Canadian Arctic. Despite initial successes, they encountered challenges and had to adjust their search, ultimately leading them to a region with optimal conditions for finding the desired transitional fossils. This process demonstrates the importance of persistence and the application of established methods in the field of paleontology.

    • Discovering a fish with limb bones: Evidence for the transition from water to land animalsA 6-year long expedition led to the discovery of a fish with fins containing limb bones, lungs, gills, scales, and fish-like skull bones, providing crucial evidence for the transition from water to land animals.

      The discovery of a flat-headed fish with limb bones in 2004, which was part of a 6-year long expedition, provided crucial evidence for the transition from water to land animals. The team had made a prediction based on their knowledge of evolutionary history, geology, and stratigraphy, and their discovery confirmed this prediction. The fish, which had fins with limb bones inside, lungs, gills, scales, and fish-like bones in the skull, was a mosaic of fish and limbed animal characteristics. This discovery not only advanced scientific knowledge but also occurred during a time when the teaching of intelligent design creationism in schools was a controversial issue. The team's use of scientific tools and evidence to make predictions sets an example for the predictive nature of science.

    • Exploring the Earth's Past: A Fossil Hunter's JourneyFossil hunting requires patience, knowledge of geology, and a keen eye to spot signs of weathering and potential fossils. Success depends on understanding the geological history of the area and recognizing patterns in the rocks.

      The process of finding fossils involves a combination of training the eye, understanding the geology of the area, and being patient. Fossil hunters use various tools like geological maps and aerial photos to identify potential rock formations that may contain fossils. Once they arrive at the site, they follow layers of rocks for miles, looking for signs of weathering that may reveal fossils. This process can be painstaking and requires a great deal of patience, as there may be long periods of time where no fossils are found. Success depends on developing a deep knowledge of the geology of the area, as well as the ability to recognize patterns and signs of fossils. Even those with little experience can learn to identify fossils with practice. The discovery of fossils is not just a matter of finding a single organism, but rather a reminder of the gradual and continuous evolutionary history that can be seen in our own bodies. This history is reflected in our genome, cells, tissues, and organs, and can be traced back billions of years. For example, the hiccups we experience are a result of a spasm of the phrenic nerve, a response that is also seen in frogs and tadpoles, and is believed to be a calibrated neural response that has evolved over millions of years.

    • The gradual transition of early organisms from water to landEarly organisms like Tiktaalik adapted to land through gradual modifications, such as fin-limbs and lungs, driven by new food sources and the absence of predators and competitors.

      The transition from water to land for early organisms, like Tiktaalik, was driven by the availability of new food sources and the absence of predators and competitors on land. This shift was not a sudden event but rather a gradual process that involved the repurposing and modification of existing traits. For instance, Tiktaalik had fins that resembled limbs, with a shoulder, elbow, and wrist, which may have helped it navigate the mudflats and eventually walk on land. Additionally, it had lungs, which allowed it to breathe air. This transition not only marked the beginning of life on land but also paved the way for other major evolutionary developments, such as limbs, lungs, and eventually human bipedalism. It's important to remember that evolution is a process of repurposing and modifying existing traits, and it often begins well before we might think.

    • The origins of fish lungs are more complex than thoughtFish lungs did not originate from a need to breathe on land, but instead evolved from an air sac already present in aquatic creatures, which could become lungs or a swim bladder depending on the species.

      The evolution of lungs in fish is more complex than one might think. Contrary to popular belief, lungs did not originate when fish evolved to live on land. Instead, they developed from an air sac that was already present in aquatic creatures. This air sac could either become lungs or a swim bladder, depending on the specific fish. Lungs serve as an accessory organ that allows fish to breathe air when the oxygen concentration in water is insufficient. This is a common adaptation in fish, with various strategies for breathing air having evolved throughout evolution. It's important to note that the lungs originally developed from an outpocket of the gut tube during embryonic development, and both lungs and swim bladders share this common developmental origin. Additionally, the idea that an organism's development recapitulates its evolutionary history, known as ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, is an outdated concept. While it was popular in the late 1800s and early 1900s, modern biology has shown that this is not generally true.

    • The idea that development recapitulates phylogenyAlthough development and evolution are connected, the idea that development recapitulates phylogeny is not a universal law.

      The relationship between development and evolution, specifically the idea that development recapitulates phylogeny (ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny), was a dominant theory in biology for a period of time but has been found to be incorrect as a universal law. Instead, development and evolution are connected in that organisms begin their development from a common stage, but the relationship between development and evolution has long been a source of fascination for scientists. The notion that embryos of different species are more similar to each other than adults was a pre-Darwinian idea, and many other concepts used in evolutionary biology have their roots in the pre-Darwinian era. The idea of extinction, which was essential for the understanding of evolution, was a relatively new concept in biology before Darwin.

    • The discovery of salamanders with both aquatic and terrestrial forms challenged the belief of fixed speciesThe discovery of salamanders with both aquatic and terrestrial forms provided evidence for the idea of evolution, challenging the belief of fixed species in the scientific community.

      The scientific community before Darwin held a belief that nature was unchanging and that species were fixed. However, some scientists, including those discussed in the podcast, were driven by a desire to understand the order and diversity in nature. They used tools like homology to compare similar structures in different species, but it was Darwin who provided a material and evolutionary explanation for this phenomenon. An intriguing example of this connection between development and evolution is the discovery of salamanders with both aquatic and terrestrial forms. European scientists were familiar with salamanders, but the fully aquatic Mexican species with external gills sent to Dumeril was a surprise. Upon further investigation, Dumeril discovered that the same species had both aquatic and terrestrial forms living in the same container. This discovery challenged the prevailing belief that species were fixed and provided evidence for the idea of evolution.

    • Discovering the impact of subtle developmental changes on animal form and functionA small shift in development can lead to significant differences in animal appearance and behavior, as shown by Dumeril's discovery of metamorphosis in salamanders. Modern science continues to explore these subtle changes using molecular biology and gene discovery.

      A subtle change in development, such as the timing or level of hormone exposure, can lead to significant differences in the final form and function of an animal. Dumeril's discovery of metamorphosis in salamanders was a groundbreaking insight into this concept, as it showed how a simple shift in development could result in animals that looked and behaved very differently. This work inspired scientists to explore other subtle changes in development that could bring about major evolutionary changes. The advent of molecular biology and the discovery of genes and their roles in development have further expanded our understanding of this relationship, providing new tools and insights into the story of how animals evolve.

    • Discovering common ancient genes revolutionized our understanding of biologyThe discovery of common ancient genes and their evolution through duplication and repurposing led to the complexity and diversity we see in various species, challenging previous assumptions about genetic material and organism complexity.

      The discovery of common ancient genes across different species, which could be repurposed, duplicated, and modified over time, revolutionized our understanding of biology in the late eighties. This concept, known as gene duplication and repurposing, parallels the evolution of structures in animals. These ancient genes, though similar, have undergone significant changes and variations, leading to the complexity and diversity we see in various species. For instance, Susumu Ono, a researcher in the 1940s and 1950s, used a low-tech method to weigh chromosomes from different species and found that the amount of genetic material in a cell does not correlate with an organism's complexity. This groundbreaking discovery challenged the conventional wisdom and paved the way for further advancements in genetics and molecular biology. So, in essence, the evolution of genes and their functions has been a significant driving force behind the diversity and complexity we observe in various species.

    • Discovering the Role of Gene Duplication in EvolutionGene duplication plays a significant role in producing new proteins and driving evolution by allowing the creation of genetic switches, leading to functional diversity within organisms.

      The discovery of gene duplication as a major source of innovation and evolution in genetics has opened up a whole new field of research. Genes are segments of DNA that code for proteins, but there are also regulatory parts and "junk" DNA. While DNA in each cell is long and tightly packed, only 2% of it codes for proteins. The rest plays a role in controlling gene activity. The cells in our body have the same DNA, but different proteins are produced depending on which genes are turned on or off in each cell type. Research since the late 80s has focused on understanding these genetic switches and their role in evolutionary change. This discovery, made through a simple yet profound idea, gives hope for the continued ingenuity of scientists in the years to come.

    • Dynamic control of gene expression through molecular switchesMolecular switches located near genes control their expression through activation or deactivation, leading to developmental and evolutionary changes.

      The functioning of genes and their expression is not a static process, but a dynamic one, controlled by intricate molecular switches. These switches, often located near the genes themselves, are activated or deactivated by various molecular keys and triggers, leading to the opening and closing of the genome in specific areas. This process is crucial for development and evolution, as subtle changes in these switches can result in significant differences in cellular identity and function. Furthermore, the three-dimensional structure of the genome plays a vital role in this process, with differences in structure leading to unique regulatory environments. Understanding these molecular mechanisms has shed new light on the dynamic nature of the genome and its role in major transitions, revealing that new functions can often emerge from the reuse or repurposing of existing genetic material.

    • The same solutions to problems can emerge independently in different species through convergent evolutionConvergent evolution explains how similar structures appear in unrelated creatures due to common adaptive solutions, shared genes, and developmental processes

      The same solutions to problems can emerge independently in different species due to their shared genes and similar ways of using them. This phenomenon, known as convergent evolution, helps explain why similar structures appear in unrelated creatures. Convergent evolution can occur for various reasons, including common adaptive solutions, but also due to common genes and developmental processes. This concept challenges the idea that mutations are entirely random, as certain mutations are more likely to occur based on the genome and developmental context. The notion of hopeful monsters, which suggests major evolutionary transitions can occur in one step, was a controversial idea that Ernst Mayr, a prominent evolutionary biologist, took issue with during the speaker's graduate studies. Overall, understanding convergent evolution and the role of shared genes in shaping organisms provides valuable insights into the evolutionary process.

    • The evolution process involves small mutations and gene borrowingThe theory of evolution occurs through small mutations and gene borrowing, with the human genome containing approximately 8% of defunct viral DNA.

      The theory of evolution, particularly at the molecular level, is a complex and ongoing process driven by the accumulation of small mutations rather than a few major transformative events. This process can occur rapidly, and the borrowing of genes from one species to another through mechanisms like viral infections is an important part of this process. However, understanding the intricacies of evolution, including the factors that influence the rate of evolution and the emergence of new species, remains an open question for researchers. Furthermore, the human genome itself is a testament to this process, with approximately 8% of our genetic material being derived from ancient viruses that have since been rendered defunct. These findings challenge traditional notions of evolution and highlight the importance of continued research and exploration in this field.

    • Viruses as sources of genetic novelty in evolutionViruses contribute to genetic diversity and have shaped evolution by providing new functions through repurposing in ancient genomes

      Viruses are not just threats to our health, but they also play a crucial role in our evolution by providing new genetic material. Jason Shepherd's discovery of ARC, a memory gene with viral properties, highlights this idea. ARC is an ancient virus that was repurposed by our ancestors' genomes to create proteins essential for memory formation. This process of repurposing viruses for new functions is a common theme in evolution. Other examples include genes involved in placenta production, which were once viruses that invaded the genome. These findings challenge traditional views of evolution as solely involving the absorption of whole organisms, and instead emphasize the importance of viruses as sources of genetic novelty. So, while viruses can cause harm, they also contribute to our genetic diversity and have shaped our evolutionary history in significant ways.

    • Understanding evolution through expanded knowledge of genetics and gene expressionDiscoveries in genetics and gene expression reveal shared molecular bases for seemingly disparate structures, deepening our understanding of evolution and continuity of biological processes

      The evolution of species through natural selection and common descent, as proposed by Charles Darwin, continues to be a foundational theory in biology. However, our understanding of the mechanisms behind these processes, such as genetics and gene expression, has significantly expanded upon Darwin's original ideas. For instance, the discovery of genes involved in making appendages in fish, such as those that make wrists and digits in mammals, demonstrates the shared molecular basis for the development of seemingly disparate structures. This research not only provides insight into the evolution of complex structures but also highlights the continuity of biological processes across different species. The Darwinian Revolution, therefore, represents a profound shift in our understanding of the natural world, and the ideas it introduced continue to shape our scientific inquiry.

    • Unexpected connections in limb and fin developmentNew research reveals that human limb and fish fin development share common genetic roots, opening up new avenues for understanding and manipulating organism development

      Molecular biology has revealed unexpected connections between the development of limbs in humans and fins in fish. These connections are not based on entirely new genes, but rather on the use and modification of existing genes in new ways. This discovery has opened up new avenues for research, allowing scientists to explore the molecular controls that determine whether an organism develops fingers or fin rays. Through gene swaps and editing, researchers have shown that there is a deep connection among all life forms, and this work could potentially lead to designing organisms for human purposes in the future. The recent advancement of genome editing technology, such as CRISPR, has made this research more accessible and cost-effective, paving the way for a brave new world of evolutionary discovery and manipulation.

    • The Costs of Being Human: Cognitive, Linguistic, and Physical Trade-offsBeing human comes with unique abilities but also trade-offs, such as sleep apnea from language abilities and energy consumption from large brains. Adaptation to modern environments may require addressing new challenges.

      Being human comes with trade-offs. Our unique cognitive and linguistic abilities, for instance, might have come at the cost of other cognitive capacities. Our bodies, too, are optimized in certain ways that come with costs. For example, our ability to make sounds for language leads to sleep apnea, and our large brains consume a lot of energy. As we evolve and adapt to different environments, these trade-offs may change. For instance, humans living in built environments with sedentary lifestyles may need to adapt to metabolic challenges. Looking ahead, there are numerous potential areas for improvement, from our relationship with microbes to our susceptibility to diseases that arise from modern living. Ultimately, being human is about striking a balance between optimization and cost.

    • Humanity and Technology: The IntersectionPaleontologist Neil Shubin discusses how humans are deteriorating over time and may be the last generation born completely organic, but it's not about merging physically with technology, rather our growing reliance on it.

      We are living in a time where technology is becoming increasingly integrated into our lives, to the point where some argue we are no longer purely organic beings. Neil Shubin, a paleontologist and author, shared his thoughts on this topic during a podcast conversation. He noted that as humans, we are deteriorating over time and that the current generation may be the last to be born completely organic. However, it's important to note that this doesn't mean we are merging with technology in a physical sense. Rather, it's about the growing reliance on technology for various aspects of our lives. This conversation serves as a reminder to appreciate the organic nature of our existence while also acknowledging the role technology plays in shaping our world. It's a complex issue with no easy answers, but it's an important conversation to have as we continue to navigate the intersection of technology and humanity.

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