Podcast Summary
Managing finances and travel made easier with Wise and Viator: Wise offers fee-free international money transfers and spending, while Viator provides access to 300,000 travel experiences with free cancellation and customer support. Mike Schur and Pam Hieronymy's collaboration on The Good Place demonstrates how deep philosophical principles can create remarkable entertainment.
Wise and Viator offer convenient solutions for managing international money transfers and travel bookings respectively. Wise allows users to send and spend money worldwide at real-time exchange rates with no hidden fees, while Viator provides access to over 300,000 travel experiences with free cancellation and 24/7 customer support. The partnership between Mike Schur, the creator of The Good Place, and Pam Hieronymy, a UCLA philosopher, showcases how deep philosophical principles can be applied to create remarkable entertainment. Schur sought out Hieronymy's expertise to develop a philosophical framework for the show, leading to thought-provoking discussions on ethics and morality. Their collaboration resulted in a critically acclaimed and entertaining television series. Whether it's managing finances, planning travel, or exploring moral philosophy, these tools and partnerships can make life easier and more enriching.
Faking it till you make it: The philosopher's take on trying to be good: The philosopher suggested that trying to be good and faking it can be interconnected, emphasizing the role of receptivity and transformation in the process. Motives can be complex and evolve over time, making the pursuit of goodness a continuous journey of learning and growth.
The philosopher, who was known for her absent-mindedness and deep thought, became an advisor to a TV show about people trying to be good. She challenged the notion that one cannot try to be good, and instead suggested "faking it till you make it." However, she also emphasized the importance of receptivity and transformation in the process. Motives, she noted, can be complex and competing, and becoming a good person might involve learning and experiencing rather than just trying harder. A thought-provoking conversation ensued about the role of motives and actions in the pursuit of goodness. Interestingly, one question that arose was what if one's motive itself is to be a good person? Could actions and motives be one and the same? This discussion highlighted the intricacies of moral philosophy and the importance of ongoing reflection and exploration.
The Motivation Behind Being Good: People strive to be good for personal growth or societal impact, genuine commitment leads to valuable contributions.
There are different motivations behind people striving to be good. Some may be driven by a desire for personal glory or validation, while others are sincerely seeking to better themselves and make a positive impact on the world. The distinction between these two types of individuals is important, as their motivations and methods for achieving goodness may differ significantly. The person who is genuinely committed to becoming a good person, with a pure motive and a focus on personal growth and virtue, can make a valuable contribution to society, even if their actions don't always have an immediately noticeable effect. Ultimately, the pursuit of goodness, whether driven by personal desire or a desire to make a difference in the world, is a worthwhile endeavor.
The importance of good actions in being a good person: Aristotle's philosophy of virtue and the golden mean highlights the need for balance in doing good, and being a good person involves both good intentions and good actions.
Being a good person involves more than just having good intentions; it requires following through with good actions. The speaker in this discussion uses the example of a person who may have acted selfishly or dishonestly in the past but is now making an effort to be better. Aristotle's philosophy of striving for virtue and the golden mean is relevant here, as it emphasizes the importance of finding the right balance between extremes. The speaker also shares that they have always been intrigued by the question of goodness and have written a show about it, as they dislike people who believe they are above the rules. In essence, being a good person involves not only wanting to do good but also actually doing good when given the opportunity.
Exploring the concept of moral responsibility and its measurement: The idea that every action has a moral value and contributes to an overall score is debatable. While we should own up to our actions in interpersonal relationships, rewards and sanctions are more institutional. The exploration of moral responsibility and its measurement is complex and nuanced.
That every action we take in life matters and contributes to an overall score or value, according to the premise of a TV show. This absolute point system, however, is flawed and the characters in the show have been trying to find a better way to gauge moral worth. The idea of moral responsibility for our actions is intuitive, but the way we interpret it can vary. While we should own up to our actions in interpersonal relationships, rewards and sanctions are more institutional. The idea that someone should bear full responsibility for their actions, including receiving rewards or sanctions, is a debatable aspect of moral responsibility. The discussion also touched upon the concept of rule-breakers and their motivations, as well as the creator's intellectual journey in developing the point system and exploring its implications.
Understanding the impact on others: Focus on empathy and communication when confronted with moral failings or perceived injustices to gain a more nuanced perspective.
It's essential to remember the perspective of the person who has been wronged when confronted with moral failings or perceived injustices. The discussion emphasizes that focusing solely on one's own moral failing or desire for retribution can lead to an incomplete understanding of the situation. Instead, acknowledging the impact on others and seeking empathy and understanding can lead to a more nuanced perspective. However, it's important to note that this doesn't mean excusing harmful behavior or neglecting personal boundaries. It's about recognizing that people's actions may be influenced by factors beyond their control and striving for compassion and communication. The speaker also touches upon the idea that we don't always know the full story behind someone's actions and should consider the possibility of unseen challenges or circumstances. Overall, the conversation highlights the importance of empathy, understanding, and acknowledging the experiences of others in navigating complex moral situations.
Respecting the minimum rules for coexistence: Contractualism emphasizes respect and fairness, even when it's convenient to look the other way, and every individual matters and deserves respect in a functioning society.
Constantly prioritizing empathy and not setting boundaries can unintentionally signal acceptance of mistreatment. Contractualism, a moral theory emphasizing the minimum rules necessary for respectful coexistence, highlights the importance of respecting the system we've all agreed to follow, even if individual actions may seem insignificant. This theory underscores the significance of respect and fairness, even when it might be more convenient to look the other way. It's a reminder that every individual matters and deserves respect, and that upholding the minimal rules for coexistence is essential for a functioning society.
Morality as a minimum set of rules: Viewing morality as a minimum set of rules promotes a consistent, community-building approach to ethical behavior.
Morality can be thought of as a minimum set of rules or expectations that we all sign on to, rather than a maximal one. This perspective is more akin to the demands of roles like parenting or being a police officer, where the responsibilities don't change based on individual abilities. By viewing morality this way, the demands remain consistent, and unreasonable behavior can be eliminated through a consensus-building process like contractualism. This approach can lead to a stronger sense of community and mutual support, as seen in the TV show being discussed, where characters help each other find a path to moral improvement.
Rules for a functional society vs. principles for a good life: Consider the impact of actions on others in society and globally (Singer), while simplifying international money transfers with real-time exchange rates and no hidden fees (Wise)
There are two different aspects to consider when it comes to morality: the rules necessary for a functional society and the principles for living a good life. The former, as discussed with Peter Singer, can involve significant personal sacrifice, while the latter may not require such extreme measures. Meanwhile, in practical matters, Mint Mobile offers a wireless plan with an unbeatable price at mintmobile.com/grayarea, while Wise simplifies international money transfers with real-time exchange rates and no hidden fees. Singer's work challenges us to question our values and consider the impact of our actions on others, both in our communities and globally. Wise, on the other hand, offers a solution to the logistical challenges of managing money in different currencies. These are two distinct areas of concern, but both serve to enrich our understanding of the complexities of morality and daily life.
Challenging complacency and considering our responsibilities: Peter Singer's philosophy encourages us to reconsider our relationship with the world and our responsibilities towards others, challenging complacency and reminding us of the value of all human beings.
According to the discussion, having basic utilities such as electricity, clean water, and a comfortable living space in today's world places us in a privileged position compared to the vast majority of human history. Peter Singer's philosophy, as presented in the conversation, aims to challenge our complacency and remind us of the value of all human beings, regardless of their circumstances. Singer's work encourages us to consider the ethical implications of living in a global community and the potential responsibility we have to help those in need, even if it means making small sacrifices. The conversation also touched upon the idea that being a good person might be more challenging than we often assume, requiring more than just following societal norms. Singer's philosophy, while not everyone's cup of tea, provides a compelling perspective that challenges us to reconsider our relationship with the world and our responsibilities towards others.
Exploring the extremes of philosophies and their impact on happiness: The pursuit of an ideal philosophy can lead to an unfulfilled life if it neglects personal happiness or paralyzes decision-making.
That serving any philosophical or moral system too fully and completely can lead to an unhappy and unfulfilled life. The show "The Good Place" explores this idea through the extremes of consequentialist and deontological philosophies. Doug Fawcett, an extreme consequentialist, becomes so consumed by earning as many "goodness points" as possible that he neglects his own happiness and becomes a mere shadow of a person. On the other hand, Chidi, an extreme deontologist, is paralyzed by the idea of following rules to be a perfect person and ends up unable to make decisions or live a normal life. The show suggests that a more Aristotelian approach, focusing on living a virtuous life and flourishing as a person, is a better path to happiness. Ultimately, the show argues that the attempt to be good and pursue virtue is more important than achieving an ideal or winning a race, as those who have "won" by fully embracing a particular philosophy are often miserable. Instead, it's essential to find a balance and avoid becoming a "happiness pump" or a paralyzed indecisive person.
Belief in the importance of actions: Believing our actions matter and striving for improvement adds meaning to life, not strict adherence or perfection.
Living a meaningful life doesn't necessarily mean adhering to strict rules or giving up significant parts of oneself for the greater good. Instead, it's the belief that our actions matter and the attempt to do the best we can that adds meaning to our lives. The acts themselves, such as donating a kidney, can bring immense satisfaction and even moral beauty, but an excessive focus on achieving moral perfection can lead to madness. As illustrated by the experiences of Dylan Matthews and Herman Lopez, giving something up for a cause bigger than oneself can enrich one's life, but it's essential to remember that the belief in the importance of the action is what truly matters. The act of practicing and striving for improvement is more valuable than the ultimate goal of winning or achieving perfection. Pam, who was fascinated by philosophy at a young age, would likely agree with this perspective.
Exploring the complexities of living in a confusing world: Connecting with others and putting in effort are powerful responses to life's complexities, but remember to stay open to learning and not become overly fixated on morality.
The Show explores the idea of living in a world that seems senseless and the struggle to understand and navigate it. This resonates with many people who feel stressed by the complexities of politics and climate issues. The message of reaching out to others and putting in effort is a powerful and energizing response to this sense of confusion. However, it's important to remember that striving for goodness doesn't mean becoming overly fixated on one's own morality. Instead, being open to learning and connecting with others is a more effective way to find a path forward. Regarding the singer's moral obligation to save lives, regardless of distance, the speaker acknowledges the importance of this principle but admits to falling short. He suggests that our emotional and interpersonal reactions, which are crucial to our relationships, operate on a different scale than our abstract obligations. Balancing these conflicting demands can be challenging, and the speaker is still working through these thoughts in his writing.
Moral intuitions shaped by social environment: Our moral decisions are influenced by those around us, making it important to contribute to a good society and shape collective moral intuitions.
Our moral reasoning and actions are influenced by our social environment and the collective intuitions of those around us. It's not just about being a good individual, but also about contributing to a good society. The example given was how someone's moral journey towards vegetarianism or veganism might be influenced by their spouse or significant other. Our moral intuitions are not solely a product of our individual reasoning, but are shaped by the collective. The Good Place TV show explores this concept through characters who struggle with selfishness and isolation, and how they learn to connect with others and contribute to a greater good. Ultimately, the most effective way to create positive change is to influence the collective moral intuitions within a social context where it's not uncomfortable for those intuitions to matter.
Our perspectives are shaped by people and interactions: Our beliefs and worldviews can be influenced by those around us, requiring balance between personal convictions and social sensitivity
That our perspectives and worldviews are shaped by the people and interactions around us. The characters in the show, including Tahani, illustrate this concept as they undergo transformative experiences through their connections with others. This idea is not limited to any individual, as even those with deeply held beliefs can be influenced by the people they encounter. Personal convictions can inform our interactions with others, but it's essential to consider the social implications and how they may impact relationships. For instance, expressing strong indignation about certain behaviors or beliefs that are not widely accepted may alienate people, making it crucial to find a balance between standing firm in our convictions and being sensitive to the collective moral reasoning process.
Admitting mistakes is challenging, but necessary for personal growth: Recognizing and admitting mistakes leads to personal growth and improvement, but it's hard to achieve due to fear of consequences and social pressures.
Admitting wrongdoing and taking responsibility for our actions is a challenging task for many people. As discussed, when we point out someone's mistakes, they often become defensive and refuse to admit fault. This reluctance to admit mistakes is seen in various aspects of life, including politics. The inability to admit wrongdoing can hinder personal growth and improvement. The show "The Good Place" encourages viewers to ask themselves four questions: What am I doing? Why am I doing it? Is there something I could be doing that's better? And if so, what? The first question can be answered in the third question by acknowledging mistakes and taking responsibility. However, this vulnerability is hard to achieve, as shown in experiments like the Milgram experiment, where people continued to follow orders even when they felt uncomfortable. The reluctance to admit wrongdoing may be due to the fear of living with the consequences of past actions. It's essential to recognize the complexity of individual and social actions and the need for both personal responsibility and systemic change.
People's self-perception impacts support for policies: People resist policies that make them feel morally criticized, hindering progress towards collective solutions
People's perception of themselves as good individuals plays a significant role in their support for policies. Individuals, including billionaires, often resist policies that make them feel morally criticized or wrong, even if those policies address collective problems. People value feeling good about their actions and the wealth they've accumulated, often ignoring the systemic factors that contribute to their success. The billionaire example illustrates this phenomenon, with some billionaires perceiving criticism as an attack on their character rather than a call for change. This resistance to moral criticism can hinder progress towards collective solutions to complex issues.
The Complexities of Wealth and Morality: Historical justifications for wealth don't always reflect reality. Consider societal structures, luck, and privilege when evaluating success and wealth.
Wealth and moral purity are not directly linked. Despite the historical justifications for wealth and the belief that it is a result of hard work, the discussion highlights the importance of recognizing the social context and potential external factors that contribute to one's financial success. The belief in the self-made individual and the idea that wealth is a sign of moral superiority can be deeply ingrained, but it is essential to consider the complexities of societal structures and the role of luck and privilege. The ongoing debate around ethics and the distribution of wealth is a significant concern for many, as it challenges the narrative that success is solely a result of individual effort. The exploration of these themes in media, such as television shows, can help bring moral philosophy to a broader audience and encourage deeper reflection on these issues.
Exploring ethics and morality through collaboration and literature: The speaker continues to be influenced by ethics and moral philosophy, learning the value of collaboration and the impact of literature like 'Ordinary Vices' and 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold'.
Ethics and moral philosophy, though not the central focus of her upcoming projects, will continue to influence and inspire the speaker's work. She's learned the value of collaboration between specialists and broad audience communicators, as seen through her experiences with "The West Wing" and journalists. Two books that have significantly impacted her are "Ordinary Vices" by Judith Sklar, which explores the importance of recognizing and addressing cruelty towards others, and "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold" by John le Carré, a gripping spy novel that showcases the complexities of morality and loyalty.
Three Influential Books: Le Carre's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' praised for perfect storytelling, Toni Morrison's 'Beloved' admired for rich prose, Nagel's 'Mortal Questions' recommended for thought-provoking essays.
The speakers in this conversation shared their admiration for three influential books that left a profound impact on them. Le Carre's "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold" was praised for its perfect storytelling and economy of words. Toni Morrison's "Beloved" was admired for its rich and dense prose, with each sentence feeling like a carefully crafted work of art. Thomas Nagel's "Mortal Questions" was recommended for its thought-provoking essays and philosophical insights. These books, in their unique ways, showcased the power of language and storytelling to transport, inspire, and challenge readers.
