Podcast Summary
A chilling international thriller about the life and death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi: The film 'Dissident' highlights the dangers of suppressing free speech and human rights, not just in authoritarian regimes, but also in democratic countries. It also explores the role of social media, surveillance, tech intrusions, cyber warfare, and international relations in shaping the landscape of free speech and human rights.
Chilling story of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post journalist who fought for human rights and free speech, only to be murdered in the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul. The events surrounding his death were shrouded in controversy, with allegations of dismemberment and the disappearance of his body. Brian Fogel, the filmmaker behind the documentary "Dissident," which chronicles Khashoggi's life and death, describes the story as more of an international thriller than a documentary. The film sheds light on the dangers of suppressing human rights and free speech, not just in authoritarian regimes like Saudi Arabia, but also in democratic countries like the United States. The discussion also touches on the role of social media in promoting and squelching free speech, the growing surveillance state, tech intrusions on privacy, cyber warfare, and the complexity of international relations with Saudi Arabia. "Dissident" is a must-watch film that leaves important things to ponder about the state of free speech and human rights in today's world.
Navigating the Academy Awards season: The Academy Awards season is a high-stakes game filled with intense campaigning, daily schedules, and unique opportunities, drastically impacted by the pandemic.
The road to winning an Academy Award involves intense campaigning and preparation, with months of daily schedules filled with press, screenings, and awards shows. The experience is surreal and filled with pressure, as the outcome can have significant implications for those involved. The Academy Awards season is a high-stakes game, and the traditional methods of campaigning have been drastically changed by the COVID-19 pandemic. Despite the intensity and stress, the experience is also filled with unique opportunities to meet industry peers and create lasting memories.
The emotional weight of exposing a doping scandal during awards season: Exposing a doping scandal brought intense emotions during awards season, with the filmmaker feeling a sense of responsibility towards the whistleblower, who remained in hiding and danger.
The experience of being nominated for and attending awards shows, including the Oscars, was a intense and emotionally heavy time for the filmmaker, especially considering the situation of the whistleblower, Gregory Rodchenkov, whose evidence made the film possible. Rodchenkov, who exposed the Russian doping scandal, has been living in hiding and protective custody since 2016, while the filmmaker was celebrating the success of their film. The filmmaker felt a sense of responsibility towards Rodchenkov and the weight of his isolation and danger, which weighed heavily on them during the awards season. The story continued to evolve, with the IOC banning Russia from the PyeongChang Olympic Games in 2018, citing the film "Icarus" as a reason for the decision. Despite this, Rodchenkov remains in isolation, unable to communicate directly with the filmmaker, but they stay in touch through his lawyers. The film's impact on the world of sports and the global distribution of Netflix played a role in the IOC's decision, showing the power of storytelling in bringing attention to important issues.
Russia's continued denial and manipulation of doping evidence: Russia's attempts to manipulate evidence and deny involvement in state-sponsored doping led to further sanctions and a 4-year ban.
Despite Russia's reinstatement into international sports competitions under certain conditions, they continued to manipulate evidence and deny their involvement in state-sponsored doping. The manipulation of the LIMS data, which was supposed to be a key step towards regaining trust, was a major setback. Russia's attempts to blame the scandal on whistleblower Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov and erase evidence of doping positives were met with further sanctions, resulting in a ban for another 4 years. The consequences for Rodchenkov have been severe, with him being persona non grata in Russia and facing potential threats to his safety. The saga highlights the complexity and long-term impact of the doping scandal, with Russia's continued denial and efforts to manipulate evidence undermining trust and progress.
Power misused leads to horrifying acts: Power misused can result in horrific acts against critics, as seen in Russia's treatment of defectors and the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. The international community is increasingly intolerant of such actions and recognizes the importance of free speech.
Power unchecked can lead to horrifying acts, as seen in the cases of Russia's treatment of defectors and the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Both Putin and MBS have been accused of committing such acts, using intimidation and violence to silence critics. In the case of Khashoggi, the Saudis attempted to rendition him back to the kingdom, but his defiance of MBS's vision for reform led to his murder in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. The recording of the murder, which proved beyond a doubt what had happened, was a result of a listening device placed in the room. Khashoggi was not an extremist or a terrorist sympathizer, but a moderate reformist who loved his country and spoke out against what he believed were misguided policies. The international community's response to these events highlights a growing intolerance for such actions and a recognition that power should not be used to silence dissent.
The price of free speech in Saudi Arabia: Jamal Khashoggi's murder underscores the importance of free speech and the risks of challenging those in power, even for respected figures.
The relationship between power and the press in Saudi Arabia has historically been hagiographic, but journalist Jamal Khashoggi dared to challenge this norm by advocating for reform and free speech. Despite his respected status, he was ultimately hunted down and murdered for crossing a line, leading to a global outcry against the Saudi monarchy's repressive actions. Khashoggi's decision to leave the country and speak out against the regime, despite the personal cost, highlights the importance of free speech and the risks involved in challenging those in power. The story serves as a reminder of the ongoing struggle for freedom of expression and the consequences of silencing dissenting voices.
The Dissident: A Thriller About Justice and Sacrifice: The film explores the story of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist murdered for granting his ex-wife divorce rights, and the family's struggle to seek justice or accept a payout.
That the film "The Dissident" tells the story of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist who was murdered in 2018, and the impact of his death on his family. Women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to divorce without their husband's consent, and Khashoggi granted his ex-wife the right to do so, leading to his eventual murder. The family was faced with a difficult decision: fight for justice or accept a large payout and remain silent. The film is structured like a thriller, using cinematic techniques to engage the audience and create an emotional response, with the intention of inspiring action. The story also follows Omar Abdulaziz, a Saudi dissident living in Canada, whose paths cross with Khashoggi's as he becomes a full-blown dissident. The film is a compelling and emotionally engaging documentary that sheds light on the complexities of the Saudi Arabian political landscape and the sacrifices made by those who speak out against injustice.
The Dissident: Uncovering the Truth Behind Jamal Khashoggi's Murder: The film reveals the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and the role of Saudi Arabia's surveillance state in the incident, highlighting the importance of free speech and press, and the dangers of authoritarian regimes.
The film "The Dissident" sheds light on the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and the extent of Saudi Arabia's surveillance state. Khashoggi, a Washington Post journalist and advocate for free speech and human rights, was murdered inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in October 2018. The film explores how Saudi Arabia initially denied involvement and how Turkey put pressure on them to confess, using evidence such as audio recordings and hacked phones. The film also focuses on the emotional impact on Khashoggi's fiancée, Hatisha Jenga, who became a global media figure in the aftermath. Another key aspect is the role of Israeli cyber surveillance software, Pegasus, in the hacking of Khashoggi and another Saudi dissident, Omar Abdulaziz, in Canada. The film aims to raise awareness about the importance of freedom of speech and press, and the dangers of authoritarian regimes and surveillance states.
The Battle for Twitter Control in Authoritarian Regimes: Bees vs Flies: In authoritarian regimes, Twitter is a crucial tool for dissidents and resistance movements. However, governments employ fake accounts and hacking tools to manipulate the narrative and suppress dissenting voices.
Twitter, as a decentralized information platform, has become a crucial tool for dissidents and resistance movements in authoritarian regimes, particularly in the Middle East, to communicate and organize. However, these governments have also recognized the power of Twitter and have employed large armies of fake accounts to manipulate the narrative and suppress dissenting voices. The case of Jamal Khashoggi and Omar Abdulaziz illustrates this battle between "bees" and "flies," with the former attempting to reclaim control of Twitter by creating fake accounts to promote freedom of speech and human rights. The Saudi Arabian government, fearing the potential impact of this counter-narrative, allegedly used hacking tools like Pegasus to silence Khashoggi and thwart their efforts. With 80% of the Saudi population on Twitter compared to 20% in the US, the stakes are particularly high for the kingdom, making Twitter control a matter of national importance.
Saudi Arabia silences journalist Jamal Khashoggi through murder: Jamal Khashoggi's activism against the Saudi Arabian government led to his family's arrests and his own murder due to growing online influence.
Jamal Khashoggi's journalistic work and activism against the Saudi Arabian government, which included collaborating with a known dissident to regain control of Twitter, led to his murder. Saudi Arabian agents attempted to lure him back to the country using his family as leverage, but he refused. In retaliation, his brothers were arrested and tortured without charges, along with 33 of his friends. Khashoggi continued to criticize the Saudi government through his YouTube show, which was frequently taken down due to copyright claims. The timing of his murder coincided with his message gaining significant traction on Twitter, and the hacking of his phone provided evidence of his activism. It is believed that the Saudi government saw this as a threat and made the decision to silence him permanently.
Saudi Arabia's Use of Turkish Consulate as a Trap for Khashoggi: Saudi Arabia lured Jamal Khashoggi to the Turkish consulate under false pretenses, murdered him, and delayed the Turkish investigation, cleaning up the crime scene in the process.
The Turkish consulate in Istanbul was used as a trap for Jamal Khashoggi, luring him there under the guise of obtaining marriage papers, only to be murdered by Saudi Arabian agents. The consulate was chosen as the location for the crime because the Saudis did not want to carry out the assassination on American soil. Khashoggi was unaware of the danger and left his devices with his fiancée each time he visited the consulate, giving the Saudis valuable time to plan and execute the murder. The transcript of Khashoggi's murder, which has been obtained by a few select individuals including the filmmaker, reveals that Khashoggi was aware he didn't have his phones with him during the fatal encounter. The Saudis were able to delay the Turkish investigation for about two weeks, during which time they had ample opportunity to clean up the crime scene. The listening device found in the consulate remains a mystery, with no clear explanation as to whose device it was or how it came to be there. The prosecutor involved in the case is a formidable figure, and to this day, he has not spoken publicly about the crime. The global attention on the case forced MBS to try and control the narrative, leading to the infamous hack of Jeff Bezos' phone.
Saudi Arabia's alleged hacking of Jeff Bezos's phone: The Bezos phone hack highlights the risks of cyber attacks, even for the wealthy and powerful, and the need for robust cybersecurity measures.
The attack on Jeff Bezos's phone, which led to the public revelation of his affair, was likely orchestrated by Saudi Arabia in retaliation for The Washington Post's coverage of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. The incident underscores the growing importance of cyber warfare as a battleground in the modern world, where even the richest and most powerful individuals are not immune to hacking. The Saudi Arabian government allegedly used Pegasus spyware to gain access to Bezos's phone, and the information obtained was later leaked to the media. This incident highlights the potential danger of cyber attacks and the need for individuals and organizations to take robust cybersecurity measures to protect themselves. The incident also illustrates the complexities of geopolitical relationships and the potential consequences of ownership of media outlets that report on controversial issues.
The Cybersecurity Landscape: Icarus and the Unregulated World: The complex and unregulated cybersecurity landscape poses a danger to individual privacy and geopolitical stability, with hacking technology sold to governments and tech companies collecting vast amounts of personal data.
The cybersecurity landscape is becoming increasingly complex and unregulated, with private companies like NSO Group selling hacking technology to governments around the world. This creates a dangerous situation where the ability to hack and access sensitive information is always ahead of our ability to detect and prevent it. Additionally, tech companies like Google and Facebook are collecting vast amounts of personal data, raising concerns about privacy and potential misuse of information. The Icarus analogy highlights the tension between the pursuit of competitive advantage and the inability to keep up with the ever-evolving technology. The lack of regulation in this area leaves geopolitics vulnerable to destabilization through invisible means. It's essential to be aware of these developments and advocate for stronger regulations to protect individual privacy and prevent potential misuse of technology.
Vulnerability to hacking through large tech companies' infrastructure: Hackers can exploit unidentified servers to bypass tech companies' systems, making it hard to detect unauthorized access. Political complexities add to the challenge of holding those responsible for cybercrimes and human rights violations accountable.
Our reliance on large tech companies and their infrastructure for communication and data processing makes us vulnerable to hacking. Hackers can bypass these systems by using unidentified servers, making it difficult for individuals and even experts to detect unauthorized access. The constantly evolving nature of technology and hacking methods adds to the challenge. Politically, the film highlights the lack of accountability for Saudi Arabia's actions regarding the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and the ongoing war in Yemen. Despite bipartisan support for sanctions, the Trump administration vetoed these actions, leaving the situation unresolved. This geopolitical scenario underscores the complexities of cybersecurity and the challenges in holding those responsible for cybercrimes and human rights violations accountable.
Saudi Arabia's financial power hinders international action against it: Criticism against Saudi Arabia for Khashoggi's murder hasn't led to major action due to the country's financial influence, preventing distribution of a film about the incident despite high-profile involvement.
Despite international criticism and bipartisan support for action against Saudi Arabia following the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, the global economic relationship with the country has prevented any major action from being taken by member states of the G20 or the United States. The Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund, the largest in the world, gives the country significant financial power to invest in and buy from other countries, making it a hard entity to resist. The Human Rights Foundation, which aligns with the film's mission, funded the production of the film about Khashoggi's murder, which premiered at Sundance to critical acclaim but received no offers for distribution despite involvement from high-profile figures like Hillary Clinton and Alec Baldwin. This lack of distribution speaks to the power and influence of Saudi Arabia on a global scale. The incoming Biden administration has promised to reassess the US relationship with Saudi Arabia, but to date, no action has been taken.
Media companies prioritize business growth over human rights: Media companies face tough decisions between censoring content and upholding human rights, with economic stakes influencing their choices, leading to a chilling effect on free speech globally
The economic interests of global media companies are prioritizing business growth over human rights and freedom of speech, creating a chilling effect on the free exchange of ideas. Companies like Netflix and Amazon, which have entered international markets, are facing the dilemma of potentially offending governments and losing lucrative business opportunities. The decision to censor content or stand up for human rights is becoming increasingly difficult, and the economic stakes are high. The result is a progressive restriction of free speech, not just in countries like Saudi Arabia, but also in the West, where companies are policing themselves to avoid offending powerful interests. This trend is a rude awakening for those who believe that those with wealth and power should use their influence to shed light on human rights abuses and oppression. The global landscape is complex, and the balance between economic interests and ethical considerations is a challenging one for media companies to navigate.
Fear of risks drives streaming companies to avoid controversial content: Streaming companies avoid controversial content due to potential risks, limiting filmmakers' reach, but some champions distribute important films despite challenges, and the COVID-19 pandemic allows for simultaneous theater and on-demand releases.
The decision of global streaming companies to avoid controversial content, despite the potential loss of accolades and a larger audience, is driven by the fear of potential risks such as hacking, server take-downs, and public backlash from authoritarian regimes. This risk assessment analysis has left some filmmakers struggling to have their content seen on a global scale. However, there are examples of champions for difficult films, like Briarcliff Entertainment, who have stepped up to distribute important films despite the challenges. The film "The Dissonant," for instance, will be released in limited theaters on December 25, 2020, for Oscar consideration, and will be available on demand on January 8, 2021. While it may not reach the massive subscriber base of Netflix, it will find its way to audiences through various platforms. The changing rules due to COVID-19 have also made it possible for films to be released in theaters and on demand simultaneously, providing new opportunities for filmmakers to share their stories with the world.
UN and WADA have limited power to enforce investigations and punishments: Individual countries and sporting federations enforce investigations and punishments, limiting the UN and WADA's ability to take action, leaving advocacy groups and individuals to continue the fight for justice
International organizations like the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and the United Nations (UN) have limited power to enforce investigations and punishments, leaving the actual enforcement to individual countries and sporting federations. The film "Icarus" and the Khashoggi murder investigation highlighted this issue. Agnes Callamard, a special investigator for the UN, conducted an independent investigation into the Khashoggi murder but ultimately, the UN Human Rights Council, similar to WADA, could only observe and report. The United States, under Trump, even removed itself from the UN Human Rights Council, further limiting the UN's ability to take action. Despite compelling evidence against Saudi Arabia, the UN General Assembly and Security Council have not taken up the investigation or imposed sanctions. This leaves advocacy groups and individuals like Hadija, Jamal's fiancée, to continue their fight for justice in the face of limited international support.
Turkish activist's interview interrupts Saudi representatives: Saudi reps left Turkish activist's interview over justice call, film focused on Turkish evidence, MBS not interviewed, Davos investors ignored Khashoggi murder
That during an interview, Turkish activist Hatice Cengiz spoke about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and two Saudi representatives present at the event abruptly left as she began asking for justice. Director Brian Fogel clarified that this was not edited for dramatic effect, but an actual occurrence during the interview. Fogel also mentioned that he did not interview any Saudi officials, including Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), as he believed the evidence against Saudi Arabia was solid and did not want to lend credence to a false narrative. The film focused on presenting the Turkish investigation and evidence, making it an "open and shut case." Despite the controversy surrounding MBS, many corporations and world leaders returned to invest in Saudi Arabia at the Davos in the desert event, highlighting the significant financial stakes involved.
Saudi Arabia's Economic Transformation Amidst Uncertainty: Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince, Mohammad bin Salman, is diversifying the economy by investing oil revenues globally, bringing Saudi Aramco public, and implementing Vision 2030, but faces challenges like activist arrests, potential surveillance, and data collection during the pandemic
Saudi Arabia, as the world's major oil supplier, faces an uncertain future due to the rise of electric vehicles and renewable energy. To adapt, the country's Crown Prince, Mohammad bin Salman (MBS), is diversifying the economy by investing the vast oil revenues globally and encouraging technological advancements. This includes bringing Saudi Aramco public, creating the world's second most valuable company, and implementing Vision 2030. However, this transformation comes with challenges, such as the arrest and trial of activists advocating for social change. Another pressing issue is the potential use of technology like Pegasus for surveillance and control. On a different note, the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic is leading to the development of digital solutions, like vaccination apps, which could result in widespread data collection and government control over personal information. These developments underscore the need for a balance between economic progress and individual freedoms.
Governments and organizations require proof of vaccination for public access: Governments and organizations are implementing vaccination passports and contact tracing apps, leading to increased surveillance and potential loss of personal freedoms and privacy.
Our daily lives are about to undergo a significant shift towards increased surveillance and control, with governments and international organizations requiring proof of vaccination to enter various public spaces, including restaurants and stores, as well as travel. This is akin to the spread of Christianity throughout history, where acceptance or rejection came with drastic consequences. While we may already be accustomed to companies like Google and Facebook collecting our data, the stakes are higher now as our governments will have access to our every move. The use of contact tracing apps and vaccination passports will make it impossible to go about our lives without being tracked. The argument that this is just metadata and does not infringe on our privacy may not hold up, as the potential for misuse is significant. This new reality may be unavoidable, and the implications for our personal freedoms and privacy are concerning.
Government Surveillance and Control in Modern Times: Individuals must advocate for human rights and contact elected officials to ensure privacy and autonomy, while films like 'Icarus' can raise awareness and bring about change.
The themes of government surveillance and control, as depicted in films like Blade Runner and 1984, are becoming a reality in our modern world, particularly in light of recent events like the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and the lack of accountability for human rights abuses. The COVID-19 pandemic may represent a "big brother moment" where individuals are asked to give up privacy and autonomy for the sake of safety. However, there is a call to action for individuals to make their voices heard by contacting their elected officials and advocating for human rights, as well as getting involved with organizations like the Human Rights Foundation. The film "Icarus" serves as a powerful tool for raising awareness and bringing about change, as demonstrated by its impact on the IOC's decision to remove Saudi Arabia from hosting the 2022 World Athletics Championships. Ultimately, the hope is that enlightened leadership can lead to a more just and free world, where individuals are allowed to express their opinions without fear of retribution.
Saudi Crown Prince's Leadership Contradicts His Reform Image: Once seen as a reformer, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's leadership in Saudi Arabia has been marked by centralization of power, silencing opposition, and using technology for surveillance and hacking, contradicting his calls for openness and kindness in governance.
Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, who was once seen as a reformer and a modernizer, has shown a different side of his leadership since taking power. He has centralized power, silenced opposition, and used technology for surveillance and hacking. Despite his efforts to present himself as a westernized and enlightened leader during his visit to the US in 2018, there were reports of him using these meetings to hack into the phones of world leaders, including Jeff Bezos. His leadership style is not in line with his advocacy for a more open system, and his actions contradict his calls for multiple voices and kindness in governance. Instead, he has resorted to authoritarian tactics, raising concerns about human rights and democracy in Saudi Arabia.
The challenge of telling the truth in a world of disinformation: In a world of abundant information and low trust, finding ways to tell the truth and restore faith in it is crucial. The passing of the Rodchenkov Act offers hope, but a streaming platform dedicated to truthful content may be necessary to overcome censorship and disinformation.
In today's world, where information is abundant but trust is scarce, telling the truth through documentaries and other forms of media has become a significant challenge. The fear of backlash from powerful entities and the increasing dominance of false narratives make it difficult for honest stories to reach audiences. The passing of the Rodchenkov Act is a testament to the power of such stories, but the future of their distribution and survival in the face of censorship and disinformation is uncertain. The need for a streaming platform dedicated to truthful content, supported by philanthropists or enlightened tech leaders, is increasingly apparent. The irony is that while we have more access to information than ever before, trust in that information is at an all-time low. The way forward involves finding a means to restore trust in the truth and ensure that difficult stories continue to be told.
A global platform for storytelling: Streaming platforms could revolutionize independent storytelling by providing a well-funded space for creators to produce riskier content, reach wider audiences, and maintain financial viability, but face pressure to maintain shareholder value.
As individuals amass vast wealth, they face the challenge of deciding how to use it effectively. Even those who wish to give it away, like Bill Gates, find that their wealth continues to grow, making it difficult to keep up with charitable donations. The solution, according to the speaker, could be the creation of a well-funded, global platform for storytelling, where consumers pay a subscription fee for access to content that might not otherwise be produced due to financial risks assessed by large media companies. The speaker believes that this model could be the future for independent stories and filmmakers, as it allows for greater creative freedom and the ability to reach a wider audience. However, as these platforms grow in size and subscriber base, they also face increased pressure to maintain shareholder value, which can impact their ability to produce riskier content. Ultimately, the speaker expresses admiration for the power of streaming platforms to bring independent stories to the masses but acknowledges the challenges they face in balancing financial viability with creative freedom.
Impactful content and the risks it brings: Creating impactful content requires courage but comes with risks, as seen in Brian Fogel's film 'The Dissident'.
Creating impactful content, whether it's a movie or a book, requires courage and the willingness to put oneself out there. However, with great impact comes great risk, and assessing that risk can sometimes hinder the decision to share the content with the world. Brian Fogel's film, "The Dissident," is an example of such impactful content. It's a heavy, thought-provoking thriller that opens in limited theaters on December 25th and will be available on demand starting January 8th. To learn more about the film and Brian, check out thedissident.com or find him on social media. Remember, not everything that glitters is gold, so be cautious when engaging online. And if you haven't already, be sure to check out Rich Roll's new book. Subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube, and share your favorite episodes with friends. Until next time, speak your truth, stay curious, and keep exploring.
