Logo
    Search

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    enJune 21, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Data Center InnovationData centers are undergoing significant transformation due to AI, leading to new challenges and opportunities in physical planning, construction, and financial investments, with companies like Corweave pioneering AI data center operations and new investment types like GPU-backed loans emerging.

      Technology and innovation continue to shape various industries in significant ways. The BMW 7 Series embodies this trend with its advanced features, while the world of technology infrastructure, specifically data centers, is experiencing a boom driven by the rise of AI. This transformation brings new challenges and opportunities, from the physical planning and construction of data centers to the financial investments required. Companies like Corweave, specializing in AI data center operations, are at the forefront of this evolution. While concerns like vibration control remain crucial, the financial aspect is also gaining attention, with new types of investments like GPU-backed loans emerging. Overall, it's an exciting time as technology continues to reshape industries and create new opportunities.

    • Data Center FinancingData center financing is a significant challenge for cloud service providers due to the capital-intensive nature of the business, requiring thoughtful counterparty selection and credit risk management.

      The business of CoreWeave, a specialized cloud service provider, involves three critical components: technology services, physical infrastructure of data centers, and financing. The technology services encompass software and support, ensuring the resilience and performance of large supercomputer clusters. The physical infrastructure of data centers requires building and running these facilities, which involves connecting thousands of miles of cable in a dense space. Lastly, financing is a significant challenge due to the capital-intensive nature of the business, requiring thoughtful counterparty selection and credit risk management. These financing agreements involve the customer requesting compute capacity, securing an asset, and structuring a contract, with the provider initially funding a large portion of the project.

    • Business financing, Core WeaveCore Weave prioritizes relationships and successful engineering alignments to secure new customers and expand rapidly, customizing the process to involve customers in design decisions and building projects themselves to ensure outcomes, which can offer advantages but also potential challenges

      Securing capital is crucial for business growth, and the process can be compared to real estate financing. Companies first fund the construction loan stage using their own resources, then seek external financing for stabilized assets. Core Weave, for instance, prioritizes relationships and successful engineering alignments to bring on new customers. Their infrastructure expansion has been rapid, with plans to have 28 regions online by the end of the year. The process of becoming a Core Weave customer is relationship-driven and customized, with customers involved in the design of server clusters. Core Weave has moved from being just a colocation tenant to building projects themselves to ensure guaranteed outcomes. This customized approach can be an advantage, with customers influencing network topology and cooling systems, but it may also come with potential efficiency and economic scale challenges.

    • NVIDIA's customized AI data centersNVIDIA's customized AI data centers require ground-up redesign due to advanced cooling needs, adding complexity for the industry but ensuring preferred choice for AI startups due to proven expertise and commitment to customers.

      NVIDIA's customized offerings for AI workloads require a ground-up redesign of data centers due to the advanced heat transfer and liquid cooling requirements of their next-generation chips. This adds minimal complexity for NVIDIA but can be a significant challenge for the data center industry as a whole, which is racing to keep up with the yearly cadence of new technology. NVIDIA's proven engineering expertise and commitment to supporting their customers make their solutions the preferred choice for many AI startups, reducing their existential risk in the competitive industry. The tried and true and best performing solution is not only the safer bet but also the more attractive one for most businesses in the field.

    • Nvidia's hardware advantageNvidia's reliance on proprietary chips gives them a significant edge, but they invest heavily in optimizing infrastructure and carefully select data center locations to maintain performance.

      Nvidia's reliance on their hardware, specifically Nvidia chips, is a significant advantage for the company, as no competitor has been able to subsidize their hardware to a level that could pose a material threat. However, performance can vary between different cloud environments, and Nvidia invests heavily in optimizing their infrastructure through services like "mission control" to ensure their hardware performs at its best. Another crucial consideration is the availability and sustainability of electricity for data centers, with Nvidia being selective in choosing locations with reliable grid infrastructure. The volatility of AI workloads also requires careful management to avoid power fluctuations that could cause brownouts or other issues. When evaluating data center quality or performance, both reliability, such as days without power interruptions, and efficiency, like power usage effectiveness, are important metrics to consider.

    • Power and grid infrastructure for data centersEnsure a stable electricity supply by considering power grid reliability, availability of excess renewable energy, and innovative power solutions like liquid cooling and nuclear generation.

      When it comes to building data centers, ensuring a stable electricity supply is crucial. The first consideration should be the reliability and availability of the power grid, as well as the presence of excess renewable energy in the area. Liquid cooling is an effective solution to improve power usage efficiency (PUE) and reduce energy consumption for cooling. However, the location of the data center also depends on the latency requirements of the applications, as serving use cases may require the compute to be closer to the customer base for faster response times. As the demand for real-time AI applications grows, the next data center hotspots may emerge in areas with grid studies and innovative power solutions, such as nuclear generation and small reactors. Ultimately, the market will need to address the power and grid infrastructure challenges to support the growing demand for data centers and AI applications.

    • Bitcoin miners and AI infrastructure partnershipsBitcoin miners, with their significant power sources, are attractive partners for companies seeking to expand their AI infrastructure, particularly in scientific computing and CFD analysis; private credit lenders could emerge as a financing option for infrastructure-focused companies.

      Companies like CoreWeave are exploring creative solutions to address infrastructure challenges in various markets, including the use of Bitcoin miner facilities for power needs. Bitcoin miners, despite not having directly applicable technology for AI, do have access to significant power sources, making them attractive partners for companies seeking to expand their infrastructure. The new NVIDIA GPUs are expected to open up new opportunities for AI applications, particularly in scientific computing and CFD analysis. In the context of Formula One racing, these GPUs could revolutionize aerodynamic testing by enabling more efficient CFD analysis. Regarding financing, while some AI lab startups may eventually adopt debt financing for infrastructure purchases, the venture-backed models are unlikely to do so due to the lack of collateral for cloud-based infrastructure. Private credit lenders could emerge as a specialized financing option for infrastructure-focused companies.

    • Data center private credit financingThe transition to private credit financing for data centers comes with unique challenges and risks, such as longer lead times and scarcity of essential components, but the opportunities are compelling for both private and public lenders.

      The transition to private credit financing for data center projects, such as GPU-backed loans, is a response to the lower cost of capital provided by private lenders like Blackstone. However, the new financing structures come with their own unique challenges and risks, including longer lead times for acquiring necessary components and the scarcity of electrical gear and other building blocks in the market. The urgency for scale and compute in the AI industry creates an arms race, but the availability of electricity and essential components remains a limiting factor. The complexities of data center construction and financing are significant, and the abstraction provided by clouds notwithstanding, it is a Herculean task to scale these projects. Despite these challenges, the opportunities in the private credit sector are compelling, and public lenders are extending their reach into this capital-intensive business.

    • AI infrastructure developmentAI infrastructure development involves significant investments in advanced hardware, financing, and competition, with unique challenges related to electricity demand and potential market downturns.

      The world of AI technology and infrastructure development involves complex processes and significant investments, from the creation of advanced hardware like substation transformers with a year-long curing process, to the financing of large-scale projects through innovative structures like GPU-backed loans. The dominance of Nvidia's CUDA platform in the industry raises questions about competition from other chip and software companies. Additionally, the high valuation of companies in this sector and the massive financial resources of hyperscalers create an intriguing dynamic, with incumbents facing challenges in retrofitting old infrastructure but also having significant advantages in terms of capital. The variability of electricity demand for AI workloads presents unique challenges, and the potential impact of a market downturn on financing for AI startups and lenders like BlackRock is an open question. The possible repurposing of underperforming crypto mining companies as diagnostics companies is an interesting idea, given their existing infrastructure and electricity agreements. Overall, the intersection of technology, finance, and energy in the realm of AI is a complex and fascinating area.

    • Riot Blockchain's diversified infrastructureRiot Blockchain, a Bitcoin mining company, may hold hidden value in its previous drug diagnostic machinery business, adding potential value beyond mining operations.

      Riot Blockchain, a company that has been around since 2003 but recently shifted its focus to Bitcoin mining, may have hidden value in its non-mining operations. Before its transition to digital currency trade, Riot Blockchain was involved in the drug diagnostic machinery business. This diversified infrastructure could potentially add value to the company beyond its Bitcoin mining operations. For those interested, the company's stock is now trading under the name Riot Blockchain, and there is an opportunity for potential investors to consider the option value of the company's previous business ventures. Additionally, if you're a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all OddLots episodes ad-free by connecting your Bloomberg account with Apple Podcasts. For more in-depth discussions on various topics, including AI, semiconductors, energy, and more, visit Bloomberg.com/OddLots. Remember to leave a positive review if you enjoy the content. Stay informed with the latest news from around the league on The Insiders podcast, available on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for up-to-the-minute news from Bloomberg News, listen to the Bloomberg News Now podcast. Context changes everything.

    Recent Episodes from Odd Lots

    Lots More With Neil Dutta on a Looming Fed Policy Error

    Lots More With Neil Dutta on a Looming Fed Policy Error

    Neil Dutta, the top economist over at Renaissance Macro, has generally been sunny and optimistic about the economy over the last four years or so. But now he's warning of a possible mistake by the Federal Reserve. In his view, the central bank is waiting too long to get confirmation that inflation is coming back to target. Meanwhile, unemployment is starting to creep up in a meaningful way. As he sees it, if you're still worried about upside risk to inflation at this point, you need to have a theory about where that inflation is going to come from — and it's really hard to come up with an answer for that right now, given the general downward momentum in hiring and the overall economy. In this episode of Lots More, we catch up with Neil to talk about the risk that the Fed will blow the soft landing.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 28, 2024

    The American Entrepreneurs Who First Opened The Chinese Market

    The American Entrepreneurs Who First Opened The Chinese Market

     From cars to toys to clothes, we're just used to seeing the label "Made In China" on all sorts of things. But how did China become a go-to destination for manufactured goods in the first place? Who actually recognized that there was a huge opportunity to tap the abundant, low-cost labor to sell goods to Western consumers? On this episode of the podcast we speak with Elizabeth Ingleson, a professor at the London School of Economics and the author of the book Made in China: When US-China Interests Converged to Transform Global Trade. Ingleson traces the roots of the US-China trade relationship to a handful of US entrepreneurs in the early 1970s who first went into the country and recognized its opportunity as an export powerhouse. We discuss who these individuals were, the obstacles they had to overcome, and how they reshaped the entire global economy.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 27, 2024

    Why Tom Lee Thinks We Could See S&P 15,000 by 2030

    Why Tom Lee Thinks We Could See S&P 15,000 by 2030

    The stock market has had a torrid run in 2024 despite the fact that interest rate cuts haven't materialized in the way people had expected at the start of the year. In fact, outside of a few blips here and there (like spring 2020), US stocks have been phenomenal performers for years. Tom Lee, the founder of Fundstrat and FS Insight has been bullish for a long time, having caught the correct side of this lengthy trend. On this episode, we speak to the former JPMorgan strategist about how he thinks about the market, what he sees happening right now in macro and demographic trends, and why he thinks it’s plausible that the market could roughly triple in the next six years.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 24, 2024

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    Everyone knows that the AI boom is built upon the voracious consumption of chips (largely sold by Nvidia) and electricity. And while the legacy cloud operators, like Amazon or Microsoft, are in this space, the nature of the computing shift is opening up new space for new players in the market. One of the hottest companies is CoreWeave, a company backed in part by Nvidia, which has grown its datacenter business massively. So how does their business actually work? How do they get energy? Where do they locate operations? How are they financed? What's the difference between a cloud AI and a legacy cloud? On this episode, we speak with CoreWeave's Chief Strategy Officer Brian Venturo about what it takes to build out operations at this scale.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 21, 2024

    John Arnold on Why It's So Hard To Build Things in America

    John Arnold on Why It's So Hard To Build Things in America

    Virtually everyone, across the ideological spectrum, has the view right now that it's too hard to build things (or get things done generally) in America. New infrastructure is thwarted by red tape and permitting. New housing is thwarted by YIMBYism. Even something that doesn't require much new construction -- like NYC's attempt to impose congestion pricing -- is difficult to get done after years and years of wrangling. What is the core problem? And what can be done to address it? On this episode, we speak with John Arnold, who started his career as an energy trader at Enron, before going on to found a highly successful energy hedge fund. Now in his role as the co-founder of Arnold Ventures, he works on policy solutions to address these key bottlenecks. We discuss how he goes about philanthropy to affect policy change, the problems he's identified, and what solutions could be put in place to improve domestic development.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 20, 2024

    Evolving Money: Money Without Borders (Sponsored Content)

    Evolving Money: Money Without Borders (Sponsored Content)

    Throughout history, financial markets have struggled with the issue of borders. Borders create friction, add cost and cause headaches for anyone who wants to spend money across them. On top of that, various national currencies can be wildly unstable.

    Could a borderless, global currency ease friction and enhance financial inclusion and stability around the world? Cryptocurrencies offer an intriguing possible solution to money’s border problem. And a particular kind of cryptocurrency, called stablecoins, could become a powerful medium of exchange for international payments - and offer people around the world increased economic freedom.

    This episode is sponsored by Coinbase.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 18, 2024

    The Big Trade Underneath the Strangely Calm Surface of the S&P 500

    The Big Trade Underneath the Strangely Calm Surface of the S&P 500

    For much of this year, the S&P 500 has marched steadily higher while measures of stock market volatility, like the VIX, have stayed pretty low. But looking at the headline index only tells you part of the story. Beneath the surface of the S&P 500, individual stocks have been moving up and down a lot. And of course, traders have figured out a way to make money on the difference between the quiet overall index and all that volatility happening in individual stocks. This is the dispersion trade that's gotten quite a bit of attention in recent months. But figuring out exactly who's doing it and how pervasive it is isn't that easy. In this episode, we speak with Michael Purves, CEO and founder of Tallbacken Capital Advisors, and Josh Silva, managing partner and CIO at Passaic Partners, about this new volatility trade and what it means for the overall stock market.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 17, 2024

    What a 'Degen' Crypto Trader Really Does All Day

    What a 'Degen' Crypto Trader Really Does All Day

    A few lucky people have made generational wealth trading the ups and downs of the crypto market. And some finance professionals have shifted gears to focus primarily on the space. But what is it like to actually trade these coins day-to-day? How do people pick which ones to buy? How do they analyze the coins themselves? How do they get reliable information? And what is it like, emotionally, to trade such an infamously volatile asset? On this episode of the Odd Lots podcast, we speak with Julian Malinak. In his day job, Julian works in healthcare tech. But the rest of the time, he's looking on message boards for the next 100-bagger. At one point he had made enough to retire on. And then it all went poof. But he keeps grinding and trying to improve his craft. Julian — who we found on the Odd Lots Discord server — explains what he does all day, and how the market really works from a trading perspective. 

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 14, 2024

    How Indonesia and China Cornered the Nickel Market

    How Indonesia and China Cornered the Nickel Market

    There's been a huge change in the market for nickel, which goes into everything from electric vehicles to steel. Indonesia has grown to absolutely dominate production and now provides more than 55% of the world's supply. A lot of that is going to China, which has partnered with Indonesia to help grow its nickel industry at a phenomenal rate. Now, there are accusations that low-grade and low-priced Indonesian nickel is flooding the global market, to the detriment of other producers. Western miners like BHP and Anglo American have been shuttering their own nickel operations, and have written them down by billions of dollars in recent years. On this episode, we speak with Michael Widmer, head of metals research at Bank of America, about the sea change that's taken place in the world's nickel market and what it says about the green energy transition, as well as the scramble for other strategically important metals. We also talk about all those bullish calls on copper, and general volatility in the metals space.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 13, 2024

    Elon Musk Dominates Outer Space Like Nobody Has Before

    Elon Musk Dominates Outer Space Like Nobody Has Before

    The company that Elon Musk is most known for, obviously, is Tesla. It's been extraordinarily successful and made him one of the richest people in the world. But his true love may be SpaceX, the rocket company whose technology may one day be used in getting humans to Mars. But even if interplanetary trips are a long way off, there's no historical precedent for the sheer scale of the outer space dominance that Elon Musk has built out. Between his rockets and his satellite-based internet company Starlink, no one individual has ever completely dominated outer space this way. So where are these businesses going and how do they fit into the Elon empire? On this episode, we speak to three of our Bloomberg colleagues who have covered Musk and his businesses. First, we talk about the history and science of rockets with Bloomberg News reporter Ashlee Vance, the author of the book, When the Heavens Went on Sale: The Misfits and Geniuses Racing to Put Space Within Reach. Then we speak with Dana Hull and Max Chafkin, two of the hosts of Bloomberg's Elon Inc. podcast, about Musk's broader constellation of companies and how they all fit together.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 12, 2024