Logo
    Search

    How Indonesia and China Cornered the Nickel Market

    enJune 13, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Nickel market shiftsIndonesia is now the world's top nickel supplier, and China may soon become a net exporter, with major implications for the global clean energy transition, but sustainability of business models remains a challenge due to market flooding with cheap and low-grade nickel.

      The nickel market has undergone significant changes in recent years, with Indonesia becoming the world's top supplier and China transitioning from a net importer to a potential net exporter. These shifts have major implications for the global clean energy transition, as nickel is a crucial component in batteries and other green technologies. However, the sustainability of business models for mining and producing nickel remains a challenge due to market flooding with cheap and low-grade nickel. Michael Vidmer, the Bank of America head of metals research, will join us to delve deeper into these themes and discuss the market dynamics shaping the nickel industry.

    • Nickel in BatteriesNickel, a crucial element, mainly used in batteries, particularly those for electric vehicles, drives the battery sector's growth with demand projected to double by 2030. Indonesia, with abundant resources, innovates to meet the demand, becoming a major global supplier.

      Nickel, an essential element, serves various purposes in different forms. While it's used in everyday items like belt buckles, its most significant role is in batteries, particularly those used in electric vehicles (EVs). The battery sector, driven by the energy transition, has become the primary consumer of nickel, with demand projected to double by 2030. Indonesia, with its abundant nickel resources, has emerged as a major player in the industry, employing innovative production technologies to meet the surging demand. The former president of Indonesia, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, initiated efforts to expand the domestic nickel industry. This strategic decision has positioned Indonesia as a key supplier, contributing significantly to the global nickel market's growth.

    • China's EV industry dominanceChina's strategic focus on securing raw materials for its EV industry led to its dominance through investments, partnerships, and technological transfers in Indonesia, making it the largest producer of EV-related raw materials.

      China's strategic focus on developing its electric vehicle (EV) industry over the past two decades, starting with the raw materials supply chain, has led to China becoming the dominant producer of EVs and key raw materials such as nickel, lithium, and cobalt. This was achieved through strategic partnerships, technological transfers, and investments in Indonesia, which is rich in these resources. China recognized the importance of securing a strong domestic supply of raw materials for its EV industry, and the Indonesian government saw the potential value in developing a downstream processing industry. The Chinese government's investment and technological expertise led to the rapid development of the nickel industry in Indonesia, making it the largest producer in the world by 2019. The Chinese processing technologies, such as pressure leaching and pyrometallurgy, have not been successfully replicated elsewhere, giving China a significant advantage in the global EV supply chain. This virtuous cycle of supply chain development has been crucial for China's EV industry growth, as it ensures a steady and abundant supply of critical raw materials for the production of EV batteries.

    • China's dominance in global supply chainChina's massive market and strategic policies have led to overproduction and low prices in the global supply chain for raw materials like nickel, making it difficult for Western producers to compete. The rise of lithium-ion phosphate batteries challenges the dominance of nickel-based batteries.

      China's dominance in the global supply chain for raw materials and manufacturing, particularly in the case of nickel, can be attributed to a combination of factors including their massive domestic market and strategic industrial policies. This has led to overproduction and low prices, making it difficult for Western producers to compete. Additionally, the evolution of battery technology has led to the rise of lithium-ion phosphate batteries, which historically had lower energy density but have since improved, challenging the dominance of nickel-based batteries. Governments and businesses must grapple with the implications of this dominance, including potential overcapacity and the impact on prices and industries.

    • EV critical materialsThe transition to EVs necessitates securing critical materials like nickel for battery production, with solutions including tariffs, recycling, and exploring new sources outside of the Chinese supply chain. The copper market's volatility highlights the need for new projects to meet demand and prevent future price instability.

      The transition to electric vehicles (EVs) is a strategic priority for both the US and Europe in their pursuit of a clean energy future. However, there's a tension surrounding the production of critical materials, like nickel, which are essential for EV batteries but not currently profitable to mine. Possible solutions include tariffs to protect domestic industries, increasing recycling efforts, and exploring new sources outside of the Chinese supply chain. The US is looking to countries like Indonesia for potential trade agreements and has existing agreements with Canada and Australia. The less combustion engine cars on the road, the more pressing it becomes to secure raw materials. Another major story in the metals market is volatility, particularly in the copper market. Copper is a mature market with limited new projects in the pipeline due to a decade of underinvestment. This, combined with increasing demand, has led to a supply deficit and volatility in prices. The industry needs to invest in new projects to meet the growing demand and prevent future price volatility.

    • Metals supply gap during energy transitionThe energy transition's demand for metals like copper may outpace new mining projects, leading to potential supply shortages, price volatility, and complex ESG considerations.

      While the demand for metals like copper, which is essential for the energy transition, is increasing, the investment in new mining projects may not keep pace due to high prices and regulatory challenges. This could lead to supply shortages and price volatility. The energy transition, driven by the need for ESG-compliant investments, presents a complex issue as it requires the extraction of metals but faces resistance from ESG investors. Innovation and policy changes could help bridge this gap. Another metal to watch is nickel, which has seen significant attention recently but has been overshadowed by copper in previous discussions. The market is evolving rapidly, and staying informed about these trends and potential disruptions is crucial for investors.

    • Nickel Production Transparency and RecyclingGovernments push for higher recycling rates and better design for easier recycling in the opaque scrap metal industry, particularly for nickel production. ESG investors face challenges in engaging with or avoiding problematic industries for clean energy transitions.

      The scrap metal industry, particularly in the context of nickel production, is an important but opaque sector with room for improvement. Transparency and recycling are key areas of focus, as governments push for higher recycling rates and better design for easier recycling. The nickel mining industry has been working to reduce its environmental impact, with some operators leading the way in water conservation and community engagement. However, the need to invest in "dirty" industries to promote clean energy transitions presents a complex challenge for ESG investors. The term ESG means different things to different people, and finding a balance between engaging with and avoiding problematic industries is an ongoing debate. Indonesia's rise as a major player in the nickel market is a recent development, driven in part by its efforts to capture more value downstream. The technological advancements in nickel processing, particularly in China, have also played a significant role in increasing production.

    • Chinese petrochemical advantageChinese producers have a significant cost advantage due to their massive refining capacity for petrochemicals and critical minerals, making them more competitive in industries like advanced textiles and EV manufacturing.

      Key takeaway from the recent episode of the OddLods podcast featuring a conversation with the CEO of Unify in North Carolina is the significant advantage Chinese producers have due to the massive refining capacity for petrochemicals and critical minerals in China. This edge is particularly noticeable in industries like advanced textiles and EV manufacturing. The sheer scale of China's domestic petrochemical industry provides these producers with a cost advantage, making them more competitive in the global market. This was just one of the insights gained during the trip with Tom Barkin. For more in-depth discussions on various topics, listeners can tune into the OddLods podcast, available on Bloomberg.com, or join the OddLods Discord community to engage with fellow listeners. Additionally, Bloomberg subscribers can access all OddLods episodes ad-free by connecting their Bloomberg account with Apple Podcasts.

    Recent Episodes from Odd Lots

    Lots More With Neil Dutta on a Looming Fed Policy Error

    Lots More With Neil Dutta on a Looming Fed Policy Error

    Neil Dutta, the top economist over at Renaissance Macro, has generally been sunny and optimistic about the economy over the last four years or so. But now he's warning of a possible mistake by the Federal Reserve. In his view, the central bank is waiting too long to get confirmation that inflation is coming back to target. Meanwhile, unemployment is starting to creep up in a meaningful way. As he sees it, if you're still worried about upside risk to inflation at this point, you need to have a theory about where that inflation is going to come from — and it's really hard to come up with an answer for that right now, given the general downward momentum in hiring and the overall economy. In this episode of Lots More, we catch up with Neil to talk about the risk that the Fed will blow the soft landing.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 28, 2024

    The American Entrepreneurs Who First Opened The Chinese Market

    The American Entrepreneurs Who First Opened The Chinese Market

     From cars to toys to clothes, we're just used to seeing the label "Made In China" on all sorts of things. But how did China become a go-to destination for manufactured goods in the first place? Who actually recognized that there was a huge opportunity to tap the abundant, low-cost labor to sell goods to Western consumers? On this episode of the podcast we speak with Elizabeth Ingleson, a professor at the London School of Economics and the author of the book Made in China: When US-China Interests Converged to Transform Global Trade. Ingleson traces the roots of the US-China trade relationship to a handful of US entrepreneurs in the early 1970s who first went into the country and recognized its opportunity as an export powerhouse. We discuss who these individuals were, the obstacles they had to overcome, and how they reshaped the entire global economy.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 27, 2024

    Why Tom Lee Thinks We Could See S&P 15,000 by 2030

    Why Tom Lee Thinks We Could See S&P 15,000 by 2030

    The stock market has had a torrid run in 2024 despite the fact that interest rate cuts haven't materialized in the way people had expected at the start of the year. In fact, outside of a few blips here and there (like spring 2020), US stocks have been phenomenal performers for years. Tom Lee, the founder of Fundstrat and FS Insight has been bullish for a long time, having caught the correct side of this lengthy trend. On this episode, we speak to the former JPMorgan strategist about how he thinks about the market, what he sees happening right now in macro and demographic trends, and why he thinks it’s plausible that the market could roughly triple in the next six years.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 24, 2024

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    Everyone knows that the AI boom is built upon the voracious consumption of chips (largely sold by Nvidia) and electricity. And while the legacy cloud operators, like Amazon or Microsoft, are in this space, the nature of the computing shift is opening up new space for new players in the market. One of the hottest companies is CoreWeave, a company backed in part by Nvidia, which has grown its datacenter business massively. So how does their business actually work? How do they get energy? Where do they locate operations? How are they financed? What's the difference between a cloud AI and a legacy cloud? On this episode, we speak with CoreWeave's Chief Strategy Officer Brian Venturo about what it takes to build out operations at this scale.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 21, 2024

    John Arnold on Why It's So Hard To Build Things in America

    John Arnold on Why It's So Hard To Build Things in America

    Virtually everyone, across the ideological spectrum, has the view right now that it's too hard to build things (or get things done generally) in America. New infrastructure is thwarted by red tape and permitting. New housing is thwarted by YIMBYism. Even something that doesn't require much new construction -- like NYC's attempt to impose congestion pricing -- is difficult to get done after years and years of wrangling. What is the core problem? And what can be done to address it? On this episode, we speak with John Arnold, who started his career as an energy trader at Enron, before going on to found a highly successful energy hedge fund. Now in his role as the co-founder of Arnold Ventures, he works on policy solutions to address these key bottlenecks. We discuss how he goes about philanthropy to affect policy change, the problems he's identified, and what solutions could be put in place to improve domestic development.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 20, 2024

    Evolving Money: Money Without Borders (Sponsored Content)

    Evolving Money: Money Without Borders (Sponsored Content)

    Throughout history, financial markets have struggled with the issue of borders. Borders create friction, add cost and cause headaches for anyone who wants to spend money across them. On top of that, various national currencies can be wildly unstable.

    Could a borderless, global currency ease friction and enhance financial inclusion and stability around the world? Cryptocurrencies offer an intriguing possible solution to money’s border problem. And a particular kind of cryptocurrency, called stablecoins, could become a powerful medium of exchange for international payments - and offer people around the world increased economic freedom.

    This episode is sponsored by Coinbase.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 18, 2024

    The Big Trade Underneath the Strangely Calm Surface of the S&P 500

    The Big Trade Underneath the Strangely Calm Surface of the S&P 500

    For much of this year, the S&P 500 has marched steadily higher while measures of stock market volatility, like the VIX, have stayed pretty low. But looking at the headline index only tells you part of the story. Beneath the surface of the S&P 500, individual stocks have been moving up and down a lot. And of course, traders have figured out a way to make money on the difference between the quiet overall index and all that volatility happening in individual stocks. This is the dispersion trade that's gotten quite a bit of attention in recent months. But figuring out exactly who's doing it and how pervasive it is isn't that easy. In this episode, we speak with Michael Purves, CEO and founder of Tallbacken Capital Advisors, and Josh Silva, managing partner and CIO at Passaic Partners, about this new volatility trade and what it means for the overall stock market.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 17, 2024

    What a 'Degen' Crypto Trader Really Does All Day

    What a 'Degen' Crypto Trader Really Does All Day

    A few lucky people have made generational wealth trading the ups and downs of the crypto market. And some finance professionals have shifted gears to focus primarily on the space. But what is it like to actually trade these coins day-to-day? How do people pick which ones to buy? How do they analyze the coins themselves? How do they get reliable information? And what is it like, emotionally, to trade such an infamously volatile asset? On this episode of the Odd Lots podcast, we speak with Julian Malinak. In his day job, Julian works in healthcare tech. But the rest of the time, he's looking on message boards for the next 100-bagger. At one point he had made enough to retire on. And then it all went poof. But he keeps grinding and trying to improve his craft. Julian — who we found on the Odd Lots Discord server — explains what he does all day, and how the market really works from a trading perspective. 

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 14, 2024

    How Indonesia and China Cornered the Nickel Market

    How Indonesia and China Cornered the Nickel Market

    There's been a huge change in the market for nickel, which goes into everything from electric vehicles to steel. Indonesia has grown to absolutely dominate production and now provides more than 55% of the world's supply. A lot of that is going to China, which has partnered with Indonesia to help grow its nickel industry at a phenomenal rate. Now, there are accusations that low-grade and low-priced Indonesian nickel is flooding the global market, to the detriment of other producers. Western miners like BHP and Anglo American have been shuttering their own nickel operations, and have written them down by billions of dollars in recent years. On this episode, we speak with Michael Widmer, head of metals research at Bank of America, about the sea change that's taken place in the world's nickel market and what it says about the green energy transition, as well as the scramble for other strategically important metals. We also talk about all those bullish calls on copper, and general volatility in the metals space.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 13, 2024

    Elon Musk Dominates Outer Space Like Nobody Has Before

    Elon Musk Dominates Outer Space Like Nobody Has Before

    The company that Elon Musk is most known for, obviously, is Tesla. It's been extraordinarily successful and made him one of the richest people in the world. But his true love may be SpaceX, the rocket company whose technology may one day be used in getting humans to Mars. But even if interplanetary trips are a long way off, there's no historical precedent for the sheer scale of the outer space dominance that Elon Musk has built out. Between his rockets and his satellite-based internet company Starlink, no one individual has ever completely dominated outer space this way. So where are these businesses going and how do they fit into the Elon empire? On this episode, we speak to three of our Bloomberg colleagues who have covered Musk and his businesses. First, we talk about the history and science of rockets with Bloomberg News reporter Ashlee Vance, the author of the book, When the Heavens Went on Sale: The Misfits and Geniuses Racing to Put Space Within Reach. Then we speak with Dana Hull and Max Chafkin, two of the hosts of Bloomberg's Elon Inc. podcast, about Musk's broader constellation of companies and how they all fit together.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 12, 2024