Logo
    Search

    Everything You've Been Taught About How to Value a Stock Might Be Wrong

    enOctober 30, 2017

    Podcast Summary

    • Understanding earnings reports goes beyond just the numbersInvestors must consider both a company's financial performance and market expectations when analyzing earnings reports to make informed decisions

      Understanding earnings reports goes beyond just the numbers a company reports. It's essential to consider the expectations of the market and how the actual results compare. Principal Asset Management, as a real estate manager, employs a 360-degree perspective to identify investing opportunities, just as investors need to consider both the company's financial performance and market expectations when analyzing earnings reports. The process of estimating earnings involves constant tweaking of models and expectations, making it a relative game. Companies can outperform or underperform based on these expectations, leading to varying market reactions. Additionally, some companies may manipulate expectations, adding complexity to the analysis. In summary, while examining earnings reports can be time-consuming and intricate, it's crucial for investors to understand both the company's financial performance and the market's expectations to make informed decisions.

    • The Significance of Earnings Reports in Modern Business RealityModern business realities have outpaced accounting standards, rendering perfect earnings forecasts ineffective for generating profits.

      The traditional reliance on earnings reports as an accurate indicator of a company's performance and a manager's capabilities may no longer hold true in today's economy. According to accounting professors Baruch Lev and Feng Gu, accounting standards have not kept up with modern business realities, and their research shows that even perfect earnings forecasts no longer yield significant profits. This challenges the foundation of many financial conversations and the success of traditional investment strategies. This idea gained prominence from the teachings of Benjamin Graham, who influenced Warren Buffett, and since then, earnings have been the focal point of financial analysis. However, with the changing economic landscape, it's crucial to reconsider the significance of earnings reports in evaluating a company's worth.

    • Misplaced focus on earnings as a performance and value indicatorFocusing solely on earnings as a measure of a company's performance and value is less effective due to the shift from tangible to intangible assets and the way these expenses are reported. Earnings relevance has declined significantly over time, with more profitable trading strategies available.

      Focusing solely on earnings as an indicator of a company's performance and value is no longer effective due to the shift from tangible to intangible assets and the way these expenses are reported in financial statements. This misstatement of earnings can lead to an inaccurate assessment of a company's true financial situation and future prospects. The relevance of earnings information for evaluating company performance and value has declined significantly over time. For instance, during the late 1980s and early 1990s, having a perfect earnings prediction machine could have earned excess profits of up to 25% per year. However, by the end of 2015, this strategy would only yield a maximum of 2% excess return. There are more profitable trading strategies available with lower costs. Companies that invest heavily in tangible assets are particularly affected by this loss of earnings relevance, as investors eventually realize that the earnings and financial information they rely on is no longer accurate for assessing the value of these companies.

    • Looking beyond traditional earningsCompanies release non-GAAP earnings to provide a clearer picture of cash flows and exclude one-time items, with investors reacting more strongly to them than GAAP earnings.

      While traditional earnings are important, they may not fully reflect a company's financial performance. Principal Asset Management, a leading real estate manager, emphasizes the need to look beyond traditional earnings and consider non-GAAP earnings, which are often released by companies in response to the limitations of GAAP accounting. These non-GAAP earnings are seen as a more accurate representation of a company's financial situation, as they can provide a clearer picture of cash flows and exclude one-time items or non-recurring expenses. Research shows that investors react more strongly to non-GAAP earnings than GAAP earnings, indicating their informative value. Companies like Amazon and Tesla, known for their unique business models, have drawn attention to the importance of considering non-GAAP earnings in addition to GAAP earnings for a comprehensive understanding of a company's financial health.

    • Shifting focus from quarterly earnings to strategic assetsInvestors should evaluate companies based on their strategic assets for long-term value creation, not just quarterly earnings. Amazon's success illustrates this.

      While quarterly earnings may still be a focus for some investors, the real drivers of a company's long-term success and value lie in its strategic assets. Amazon, as an example, has demonstrated this through its market share growth and expansion into new territories. However, not all companies or their messages are clear to investors, leading to potential misinterpretation of financial data. The market's increasing reliance on momentum and following the money rather than fundamental analysis is a concern. Our message is not to abandon fundamental analysis but to shift the focus towards understanding a company's strategic assets and their impact on long-term value creation. The current market's functioning and the deficiencies of accounting rules may contribute to this trend, but it's essential to continue evaluating companies based on their fundamental strengths.

    • Focus on strategic assets for a complete investment analysisInvestors should look beyond traditional financial metrics and focus on the performance and potential of strategic assets like product pipelines in pharmaceuticals or customer base in internet, media, and entertainment companies for a comprehensive investment analysis.

      While traditional financial metrics like earnings are important, they may not fully capture the value of a company, particularly those in industries where the future success is heavily dependent on strategic assets such as product pipelines in pharmaceuticals or customer base in internet, media, and entertainment companies. Instead, investors should focus on the performance and potential of these assets to make informed investment decisions. For instance, in pharmaceuticals, the focus should be on the drugs in development and their likelihood of reaching the market, rather than past earnings. Similarly, for internet, media, and entertainment companies, the number of new customers and the churn rate are more indicative of future success than current earnings. While it's still necessary to estimate future earnings, the focus should be on understanding the fundamentals that create value. This approach has been shown to provide valuable insights and potentially lead to changes in market value before investors realize the shift.

    • Modern economy's changing business landscape impacts accounting rulesCompanies with strategic assets need to generate revenue and income, despite different valuation methods

      Accounting rules are struggling to keep up with the changing nature of business in the modern economy. Companies with strategic assets like network effects, strong company culture, and intangible value, such as Amazon and Facebook, are valued differently than traditional industrial companies. However, it's essential to recognize that these strategic assets must still produce revenue and income to hold value. The authors of "The End of Accounting and the Path Forward for Investors and Managers," Baruch Lev and Feng Gu, have identified this issue and offer potential solutions. The discussion highlights the need to adjust our perspective when evaluating financial statements and recognizing that different business models require different valuation methods. The topic is complex, but as earning season continues, it's crucial to keep this in mind.

    • Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld Launch Money Stuff PodcastFinance experts Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld bring their popular Money Stuff newsletter to a weekly podcast, discussing Wall Street finance and intriguing topics on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other platforms.

      Two familiar faces from the world of finance and podcasting, Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld, are teaming up to bring the popular Money Stuff newsletter to life as a weekly podcast. Matt, a friend of the Odd Lots podcast and a Bloomberg Opinion columnist, and Katie, a Bloomberg TV host, will discuss Wall Street finance and other intriguing topics every Friday. Listeners can tune in to Money Stuff on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other preferred podcast platform. This new podcast is an exciting addition to the Bloomberg podcast lineup, offering insights and analysis on the latest financial news and trends.

    Recent Episodes from Odd Lots

    How Brazil Gave Birth to One of the World's Greatest Jet Makers

    How Brazil Gave Birth to One of the World's Greatest Jet Makers

    There aren't many advanced manufacturing success stories in Latin America. And globally, there aren't many companies that can build commercial planes at scale. Yet somehow, one of the world's leading jet makers is Brazilian. Embraer is the third largest maker of commercial planes worldwide after Boeing and Airbus. On this episode, we talk about how the company came to be, what its opportunities are, and what lessons in economic development we can learn from its rise. We speak with two guests for the show. First, is Richard Aboulafia, a managing director at AeroDynamic Advisory, to understand the company's role in the aviation ecosystem. Then we speak with Juan David Rojas, a writer on Latin America, to understand the political conditions in Brazilian history that allowed the company to emerge and thrive.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJuly 04, 2024

    How Brad Jacobs Will Invest $4.5 Billion to Reshape Building Supplies

    How Brad Jacobs Will Invest $4.5 Billion to Reshape Building Supplies

    Brad Jacobs has made a career of starting, consolidating, and growing whole industries. He did a trucking company. He did a warehouse company. He has a freight brokerage. He created an equipment rental company. His new venture, dubbed QXO, aims to reshape the big and sprawling market for building supplies, which can encompass residential, infrastructure and commercial real estate. And he has $4.5 billion of his and his investors' money to go out and buy and build. In this special episode of the Odd Lots podcast, recorded live at the Bloomberg Invest conference in New York City, he talks about where he is in the new process, and what he plans to do once he's made his acquisitions.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJuly 02, 2024

    The Theory That Explains Why Everyone Went Crazy

    The Theory That Explains Why Everyone Went Crazy

    Does it feel to you like society has gone crazy? Well, you're not alone. There's a general view that all around the world, in the realms of politics, culture, business, and so forth, a lot of people are losing their minds. So if this is true, what's the reason for it? On this episode we speak with Dan Davies, the author of the new book The Unaccountability Machine: Why Big Systems Make Terrible Decisions - And How The World Lost Its Mind. Dan talks about the field of study known as cybernetics, and the inevitable outcomes of systems that grow more and more complex. This complexity -- which describes many things in the modern world, and leads to what Dan calls "accountability sinks," or entities that basically exist just to be blamed for things that have gone wrong. Dan walks us through how these emerged in the modern world, where things are headed, and how the trend could theoretically be reversed.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJuly 01, 2024

    Lots More With Neil Dutta on a Looming Fed Policy Error

    Lots More With Neil Dutta on a Looming Fed Policy Error

    Neil Dutta, the top economist over at Renaissance Macro, has generally been sunny and optimistic about the economy over the last four years or so. But now he's warning of a possible mistake by the Federal Reserve. In his view, the central bank is waiting too long to get confirmation that inflation is coming back to target. Meanwhile, unemployment is starting to creep up in a meaningful way. As he sees it, if you're still worried about upside risk to inflation at this point, you need to have a theory about where that inflation is going to come from — and it's really hard to come up with an answer for that right now, given the general downward momentum in hiring and the overall economy. In this episode of Lots More, we catch up with Neil to talk about the risk that the Fed will blow the soft landing.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 28, 2024

    The American Entrepreneurs Who First Opened The Chinese Market

    The American Entrepreneurs Who First Opened The Chinese Market

     From cars to toys to clothes, we're just used to seeing the label "Made In China" on all sorts of things. But how did China become a go-to destination for manufactured goods in the first place? Who actually recognized that there was a huge opportunity to tap the abundant, low-cost labor to sell goods to Western consumers? On this episode of the podcast we speak with Elizabeth Ingleson, a professor at the London School of Economics and the author of the book Made in China: When US-China Interests Converged to Transform Global Trade. Ingleson traces the roots of the US-China trade relationship to a handful of US entrepreneurs in the early 1970s who first went into the country and recognized its opportunity as an export powerhouse. We discuss who these individuals were, the obstacles they had to overcome, and how they reshaped the entire global economy.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 27, 2024

    Why Tom Lee Thinks We Could See S&P 15,000 by 2030

    Why Tom Lee Thinks We Could See S&P 15,000 by 2030

    The stock market has had a torrid run in 2024 despite the fact that interest rate cuts haven't materialized in the way people had expected at the start of the year. In fact, outside of a few blips here and there (like spring 2020), US stocks have been phenomenal performers for years. Tom Lee, the founder of Fundstrat and FS Insight has been bullish for a long time, having caught the correct side of this lengthy trend. On this episode, we speak to the former JPMorgan strategist about how he thinks about the market, what he sees happening right now in macro and demographic trends, and why he thinks it’s plausible that the market could roughly triple in the next six years.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 24, 2024

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    CoreWeave's CSO on the Business of Building AI Datacenters

    Everyone knows that the AI boom is built upon the voracious consumption of chips (largely sold by Nvidia) and electricity. And while the legacy cloud operators, like Amazon or Microsoft, are in this space, the nature of the computing shift is opening up new space for new players in the market. One of the hottest companies is CoreWeave, a company backed in part by Nvidia, which has grown its datacenter business massively. So how does their business actually work? How do they get energy? Where do they locate operations? How are they financed? What's the difference between a cloud AI and a legacy cloud? On this episode, we speak with CoreWeave's Chief Strategy Officer Brian Venturo about what it takes to build out operations at this scale.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 21, 2024

    John Arnold on Why It's So Hard To Build Things in America

    John Arnold on Why It's So Hard To Build Things in America

    Virtually everyone, across the ideological spectrum, has the view right now that it's too hard to build things (or get things done generally) in America. New infrastructure is thwarted by red tape and permitting. New housing is thwarted by YIMBYism. Even something that doesn't require much new construction -- like NYC's attempt to impose congestion pricing -- is difficult to get done after years and years of wrangling. What is the core problem? And what can be done to address it? On this episode, we speak with John Arnold, who started his career as an energy trader at Enron, before going on to found a highly successful energy hedge fund. Now in his role as the co-founder of Arnold Ventures, he works on policy solutions to address these key bottlenecks. We discuss how he goes about philanthropy to affect policy change, the problems he's identified, and what solutions could be put in place to improve domestic development.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 20, 2024

    Evolving Money: Money Without Borders (Sponsored Content)

    Evolving Money: Money Without Borders (Sponsored Content)

    Throughout history, financial markets have struggled with the issue of borders. Borders create friction, add cost and cause headaches for anyone who wants to spend money across them. On top of that, various national currencies can be wildly unstable.

    Could a borderless, global currency ease friction and enhance financial inclusion and stability around the world? Cryptocurrencies offer an intriguing possible solution to money’s border problem. And a particular kind of cryptocurrency, called stablecoins, could become a powerful medium of exchange for international payments - and offer people around the world increased economic freedom.

    This episode is sponsored by Coinbase.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 18, 2024

    The Big Trade Underneath the Strangely Calm Surface of the S&P 500

    The Big Trade Underneath the Strangely Calm Surface of the S&P 500

    For much of this year, the S&P 500 has marched steadily higher while measures of stock market volatility, like the VIX, have stayed pretty low. But looking at the headline index only tells you part of the story. Beneath the surface of the S&P 500, individual stocks have been moving up and down a lot. And of course, traders have figured out a way to make money on the difference between the quiet overall index and all that volatility happening in individual stocks. This is the dispersion trade that's gotten quite a bit of attention in recent months. But figuring out exactly who's doing it and how pervasive it is isn't that easy. In this episode, we speak with Michael Purves, CEO and founder of Tallbacken Capital Advisors, and Josh Silva, managing partner and CIO at Passaic Partners, about this new volatility trade and what it means for the overall stock market.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    Odd Lots
    enJune 17, 2024

    Related Episodes

    Is Sustainable Investing a Lie?

    Is Sustainable Investing a Lie?
    ESG (or “environmental, social, and governance”) investing has been one of the hottest financial trends in recent years. It promises something that sounds too good to be true: You can invest in a way that aligns with your moral compass, and you don’t have to sacrifice returns to do it. But…can you? We’re joined by Alex Edmans, a professor of finance at London Business School and expert in the field, to help us cut through the greenwashing. Transcripts, show notes, production credits, and more can be found at: https://moneywithkatie.com/sustainable-investing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Insights into the Current Real Estate Landscape: What to Expect in the Coming Months

    Insights into the Current Real Estate Landscape: What to Expect in the Coming Months

    Welcome back to the Real Estate Jerky Daily! In this episode, hosts Mike Kelly and Ed Parcaut dive into the latest market updates and trends in the real estate industry. They discuss the current supply and demand in Stanislaus County, the impact of labor market cooling for small businesses, and the surprising drop in mortgage applications. The hosts also explore the rising median home prices in California and across the United States, as well as the potential risks in certain housing markets. Tune in as Mike and Ed provide expert analysis and insights into the ever-changing real estate landscape. Let's get started with this Market Update edition of Real Estate Jerky daily!

    #RealEstateJerky #MarketUpdateWednesday #PodcastLife #PropertyMarket #HomePrices #HousingTrends #BuyersMarket #SellersMarket #RealEstateStats #EconomicIndicators #PropertyInvestment #MarketAnalysis #RealEstateNews #MarketUpdates #PropertyMarketInsights #HousingMarketTrends

    Neel Kashkari on the Fed's Commitment to Defeating Inflation

    Neel Kashkari on the Fed's Commitment to Defeating Inflation

    At Jackson Hole, Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell gave a hawkish speech intended to leave no ambiguity about the Fed's commitment to defeating inflation. But what does that mean in practice? How aggressively will the Fed have to hike? And how much pain will the economy endure as a result of it? On this episode of the podcast, we speak with Neel Kashkari, the President of the Minneapolis Fed. He explains his thinking and why he's become one of the most hawkish officials at the central bank. We also discuss the future of the Fed's decision making framework, the impact of student loan relief, the market and much more. 

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    TransDigm: Foundations with Nick Howley [50X, EP.1]

    TransDigm: Foundations with Nick Howley [50X, EP.1]
    Today we are dropping a special episode in the Invest Like the Best feed. You will hear the first episode of 50X – a new series from Will Thorndike and the team at Compounding Labs, in partnership with Colossus. Will’s book, The Outsiders, is one of the best business and investing books you will find. Now you will hear him continuing his work in the hosting chair as he looks in detail at investments that have appreciated at least 50-fold. First up is TransDigm, an aerospace components manufacturer that has returned over 1,750X since its inception nearly three decades earlier. In this episode, Will is joined by Nick Howley, TransDigm’s long-time CEO and Chairman. Make sure to subscribe to 50X in your preferred podcast player.   For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.   -----   This episode is brought to you by Tegus. The team at Tegus has built a full company intelligence platform aimed at streamlining the investment research process. In preparation for the 50X series, we actively used Tegus to gain qualitative insights beyond traditional reported data. To learn more and enjoy a free trial, visit tegus.co/50x.    -----   50X is a podcast that dissects the anatomy of extraordinary long-term investments. The show is hosted by Will Thorndike and the team at Compounding Labs, and brought to you in partnership with Colossus.   In each episode of 50X, we look in detail at an investment that has appreciated at least 50-fold. From the seat of the professional investor and occasionally the CEO, we explore its origins, evolution, and eventual outcome, studying key themes around long-term value creation ranging from operations, capital allocation, and culture to pivotal buy and sell decisions. To enhance the quality and depth of our interviews, we rigorously study each asset in advance, diving into all available public and private resources.   Learn more and dive into our research at 50xpodcast.com   Follow us on Twitter: @50Xpodcast and @joincolossus   Show Notes [00:00:00] – 50X Introduction  [00:02:00] – Sponsorship: Tegus [00:07:04] – Episode Introduction  [00:09:05] – Nick’s Background pre-TransDigm [00:11:56] – Original Acquisition from Imo Industries in 1993 [00:15:33] – Thesis and Performance under Kelso & Co.’s Ownership [00:18:42] – Genesis of Three Key Value Drivers: Price, Productivity, and New Business [00:21:07] – Building the Management Team [00:24:05] – Early Lessons on Value Drivers [00:27:53] – Capital Allocation under Kelso & Co. [00:28:51] – Sale to Odyssey Investment Partners in 1998 [00:30:26] – Strategy under Odyssey’s Ownership [00:31:51] – Early Acquisitions and Integration Playbook [00:37:26] – Early External Crises [00:41:13] – Snapshot at Conclusion of Odyssey’s Ownership in 2003 [00:43:19] – Building a Decentralized Culture   [00:46:23] – Differentiated Approach to Compensation [00:52:12] – Sale to Warburg Pincus in 2003 [00:55:51] – Shift to Inorganic Growth under Warburg’s Ownership [00:58:08] – Evolution of M&A Process [01:05:37] – Post-Acquisition Expectations and Post-Mortem Process [01:09:48] – Divesting Acquired Assets to Maintain Focus [01:11:29] – Embedding Value-Generative Culture via Hiring and Training [01:13:54] – Quarterly Product Line Reviews [01:20:43] – Recap of Private Investment Returns and Snapshot pre-IPO