Healthy Sex vs. Toxic Sex in Marriage

In Episode 219, Mark & Steve get super passionate in addressing a heart-felt, yet tragic submission from a PBSE listener. Here's what he had to say—

Hi, I would love it if you guys could do a podcast around the effects of years of lies and trickle truths on a full disclosure? I've been a PA for 18 years roughly and i've had a hard time coming to terms with my addiction and its consequences. My partner and i have been together 4 years and she found out 1.5 years ago that I was being unfaithful through my excessive pornography and social media consumption.

I have always had a hard time running away from conflict and I have a history of communication trauma and sexual assault in childhood. I done everything wrong with my partner, I lied and lied time and time again, I minimized and justified my actions where I felt I could and for most of my "recovery" I just found sneakier ways to access pornography and just flat out refused to be accountable for the hurt it would cause my partner in these moments. I don't think my addict brain could fathom accountability at these low points.

 I allowed my partner to dig through every site/app/device and find just troves of visits to profiles and video history, bank transactions. This happened hundred of times over the year and with each new item discovered my partners pain Increased. I had every opportunity to be upfront and honest to my best friend and partner but I was reluctant to let go of that fear. Its like my addicted brain was convinced its easier to sprinkle dust onto her than to drop a ton of bricks but thats just not true at all.

Unfortunately i have realized a lot of things too late for my partner at this point and we have just recently moved into a state of in house separation. We both have CSAT therapists but are in very early days of this and still have a long way to go. My reason for reaching out is due to the fact that my entire life at this point (our relationship/my dog / my home/my job) relies on openness and full disclosure. Is there any hope that I can ever navigate around the fact that i allowed my partner to be the detective and she uncovered at least 95% of what I've done with a measly 5% being my efforts. We have spoken for a year and a half about aspects of my addiction and I struggle to dig deep and expand on my occasions of acting out. This coupled with lack of honesty just breeds an environment for my partner to rightfully wonder, "What the hell do I not know? " I'm sorry if this seems a bit all over the place , but I’ve tried to express my situation the best I can. I appreciate the work that you guys and everyone involved do to make this available for people.

-   Why do habitual lying and addiction nearly always go together? Why do addicts fear telling the whole truth and being "seen" in their totality?

-  When a relationship account is SEVERELY overdrawn and operating from a deep deficit, is their any hope for reconciliation?

-  Why is acceptance of, accountability for, and consistent verbal acknowledgment and validation of the pain the addict has caused, CRITICAL for both him and his partner?

-  How can the addict use the "language of safety" and the ACTIONS that follow it to show true empathy, real amends and lasting change?

-  Proactive, DAILY transparency, not just around sobriety, is essential!

-  Why the addict must PRACTICE daily vulnerability, not only in his marriage, but in all his relationships. 

-  What place does "Formal Disclosure" have in this process?   

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week tr

In Episode 218, we address two similar questions that we received from partners who are in betrayal trauma healing as a result of their addict spouse's sex/porn addiction behaviors. Here's an excerpt from each of the questions submitted—

Partner #1—My husband and I have been together for 3 years. In  late 2022, I found out he had been emotional cheating/porn-using our entire relationship. It continued until the fall of 2023. I have given him feedback on what I need from him to start trusting again and he tells me that I am putting too much on his plate. That he can only remember to do so much at once. In my opinion showing love and respect should come naturally in a relationship. How do I navigate this? Is it a loss cause?

Partner #2—My addict partner does have some mental health challenges—ADHD and mild Autism—but, he can focus and show deep emotion in various life situations, but NOT for me when I share my pain and desires for his recovery. He responds—"Well, what if I can't do that? What if I'm not capable of that?" It feels like he's using  his mental health challenges as a crutch and an excuse for his poor thinking patterns.

We (Mark and Steve) can SO relate to these two scenarios! We have both suffered from the feelings of huge "overwhelm/too much on our plates," and from the challenges of mental health struggles. A super significant part of our own recoveries, helping to create a healing environment for our partners, and making consistent deposits into our relationship trust accounts, was coming to healthy balance between "reasons/explanations" and "proactive accountability." We found too often that we were "weaponizing our weaknesses" and this created a huge barrier between us and moving forward with "real" daily, consistent recovery.

In this episode, we talk about the healthy role of reasons/explanations and how, at the same time, to take full accountability for one's daily recovery and meeting the needs of a partner as she progresses on her healing journey.   


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

We want to thank a courageous partner for submitting the situation and question for Episode 217. Here's what she shared—

Hi Mark and Steve, I want to thank you for making this podcast and continuing to tackle these hard topics in a way that is so relatable for recovering addicts and being compassionate for partners. My question relates to sexual intimacy and bringing that back into a relationship that has been crushed by porn and sex addiction. We have been married 15 years and have 2 kids, my husband has been acting out the entire relationship in many ways and we had a few small discoveries over the years but completed the full disclosure process over the last year. He has been working hard in recovery, has some sobriety and is saying and doing all the right things. I am also working on my healing and recovery and have seen a lot of personal growth. That said, we have been trying to navigate bringing physical intimacy back into our relationship, and it has been a challenge.

My biggest struggle is believing that he actually wants to be with me, is attracted to me, for me and not because I happen to be a female living in his house and he doesn’t have any other sexual outlets. I feel like I want physical intimacy to be organic so when he asks or says something about being attracted to me, I worry it is because he has been thinking about sex/fantasy. I feel like he is only interested in me because I am what’s available. I know he is choosing our marriage and family over porn and other women, but intimately is it actually me he is choosing? In the past I knew it was not me he was interested in, it was the idea of acting out and being in his fantasies. I know he was not actually with me when we were together and he was in his addiction. How do I accept that his interest or attraction is real, how do I believe he is choosing me out of anything but convenience? Is there anything he can do differently? Thank you for reading this and considering providing me with some answers!

-  Accepting the reality that a partner did not in any way cause their addict-partner's addiction and betrayal, nor can they cure/fix their addict partner—what CAN the betrayed partner do in this situation?

-  In response to the betrayed partner's question—"Is there anything he can do differently?"—Mark and Steve have a LOT of hard-earned counsel for addicts in recovery who want to help their partners feel TRULY chosen!


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 216 is in response to a very courageous, transparent submission by a parter who is seeking to heal from the betrayal of a sex/porn addicted spouse AND also overcome her own sexual addiction. Her's what she sent in to PBSE—

Hello Mark and Steve! Thank you for all the work and dedication that you have put into your programs and podcasts and for providing the community with invaluable tools and resources! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge. I have an unusual/embarrassing question. I am the wife of a sober porn addict. I am a recovering sex addict. I have been attending S-Anon meetings as a way to heal from the betrayal of my husband's porn addiction (and I think it's helping me to heal from my sex addiction as I'm learning that sex does not equal intimacy and I'm learning that I need to let go of my addiction to control everything).

My husband has not done any external recovery work other than white knuckling. We have realized that we have both hurt each other very much throughout our relationship. I feel like we have come to an impasse. I have told him that I cannot feel safe and secure enough to trust him unless I can see him initiating and doing recovery work. My husband has told me that I have never supported him in our relationship and have never been happy with anything that he does. So, no matter what he tries, it will never be enough for me. So he is reluctant to try anything new. I feel like one of us has to budge but I don't know how to move forward. I guess my question is: Can a sex addict and a porn addict (or 2 people with a sexual addiction) actually make it together? Or are we doomed to go in circles for the rest of our lives?

-  Lots of circumstances and complexities can lead to a "dual sex addiction" situation

-  There is a tendency to place the main focus on the "addiction symptoms." It is crucial that a couple be open and willing to explore and heal the "deep issues."

-  There are a LOT more issues going on in this coupleship than just addiction! What are these issues and how can they be addressed in healthy ways?

-  Why this couple can NOT rely on each other as the primary source for healing—what does an "outside support system" look like?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 215, a PBSE listener asks some very-often-wondered-about questions regarding addiction and related mental, emotional and relational behaviors—

I’m wondering what comes first….the chicken or the egg? Do men who already have narcissistic tendencies (born or developed in childhood) gravitate to sex/porn addiction more frequently given their insecure nature and need for validation? Or, has excessive porn use led to an increase in narcissistic tendencies in men? Could this be one reason why some men are successful in recovery while others never find true recovery?

Mark and Steve get raw and real in addressing these questions and in seeking to correct some all-to-common misconceptions.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 214, Mark and Steve respond to a PBSE listener who finds herself in an all-too-common situation. After several years of marriage, her spouse has owned up to his porn addiction and is in active recovery. However, during their entire relationship, his porn addiction ruined what could've been healthy, connected, mutually-satisfying sexually intimacy. Now, they both want things to be very different going forward. Here are the questions she submitted to PBSE—

-  In what ways could we reset our dating and early stages of marriage?

-  We have discussed trying to redo our dating experience by doing a partial separation and cutting out sex so that we can both have a time period of “dating” that we can look back on and be happy with and commemorate the ending of our dating redo by coming together sexually in a way that is mutually desired. Is this a bad idea?

-  Do we just need to accept that our dating, wedding, and first months of marriage were terrible and entirely shaped by my husband and his pornographic desires?

-  Our sex life has always been about him and what he wanted and was never a safe place for me to explore my own wants and/or desires. How do I learn to enjoy and desire sex with my husband after he criticized everything I did sexually before and after marriage?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 213, Mark and Steve tackle a very heart-felt and all-too-common situation submitted by a PBSE listener who is suffering under the heavy burden of betrayal trauma—while at the same time being criticized and discounted by family, friends and other people on social media. Here's what she vulnerably shared—

Mark & Steve, I have listened to every episode of your podcast and I wait on the edge of my seat the days in between them. Your words have helped my significant other and I so immensely. I can’t thank you enough for what you both are doing. I haven’t heard an episode on this topic yet… social media. I discovered my partner's porn-use on a shared iPad after we had been living together for about a year and a half. His issue has been on [she lists numerous social media sites], finding anything from semi-suggestive material to straight up porn. He agreed to stop immediately but over the last 2 years it’s been discovery after discovery and a string of lies, all relating to things he’s been looking at online. My partner has recently agreed it’s a big problem that he said he has struggled with it since 8th grade and he is now getting into therapy, D2C, and doing what he needs to heal himself. But I am constantly ridiculed and told by other people online or even some friends and family that I am just too sensitive and insecure, and they ask who am I to worry about what he does in private? Is the consumption of this sexually charged material online something that we are allowed to be hurt by? I find myself experiencing nearly every single PTSD symptom I’ve learned about. It feels like a big deal even though people try to convince me that it’s not.

Over much of our lives, many of us have heard certain "cultural slogans/attitudes" that say something similar to—"He can look all he wants, as long as he doesn't touch," or "What he does in in his private time is his business," etc.  Yet, over more than 20 years of working with the partners of porn and sex addicts, Mark and Steve have heard exactly the OPPOSITE!

In this episode, they talk passionately about what it means to have a holistically intimate relationship; what is required to be respected, cherished, exclusive, loyal, authentic . . . and many other aspects of a truly "connected coupleship."

Mark and Steve also talk directly to partners carrying the heavy burden of betrayal trauma—what are your rights; what is speaking your truth; what do authenticity and boundaries look like; why is betrayal ALWAYS "in the eye of the beholder"?

And they give invaluable guidance to porn/sex addicts in recovery—if you want to create, build and nurture TRUE intimacy with your partner—what you think and do when you are not with her is CRITICAL!   

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In episode 212, Mark and Steve respond to a tragic situation submitted by a PBSE listener. As opposed to a structured podcast, Mark & Steve spontaneously share their raw, passionate feelings as they read and comment on each part of this partner’s submission; ask a LOT of hard-hitting questions; and relate to their own addiction/recovery experiences and the experiences of the many couples they’ve worked with over the past 20+ years. Here’s the PBSE listener's submission— 

Hi guys! I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your podcast, in the darkest moments of our lives. My question—and it may have already been addressed: How can I be empathetic toward a partner who continually relapses with excessive masturbation [and porn]—rather than asking to have sex? For context, my husband and I have been together for [more than a decade and have several kids]. I suspected his addiction throughout our relationship but it wasn’t until the last 4 years that I had evidence of excessive porn and masturbation use. He has so much shame and remorse but doesn’t talk to me about it or even allow me to disclose it to anyone. It’s a nasty hurt that I must safeguard so his “image” is maintained. My sexual, emotional and relational needs are not being met, and he doesn’t seem to care. It is like a continual re-traumatizing and violation of trust when he relapses. Our agreement was that he would never do anything sexual without getting permission… to have additional accountability. Every time he asks [for sex]—if I don’t engage with him—I “give permission” for him to masturbate or to help him do so. Please help me understand this and be patient, loving and forgiving. I’m losing hope that this can actually work. I feel like I have to constantly put myself on the back burner to appease his needs and keep our family together for “the greater good.” But I feel like I’m being slowly suffocated.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 211 is in response to a very raw and heart-felt submission by a PBSE listener. She is about to turn 40, is married to a guy who struggles with porn/sex addiction and they have 3 children. About 10 years ago, she found out that he had been regularly viewing porn for the first decade of their marriage. She was devastated and let him know she considered it cheating. In the years that followed, every time she would bring it up, he promised to stop but never did. He gaslit her and claimed it was "normal" behavior. Then over the last 12 months or so, he engaged in a "trickled disclosure" about just how bad his porn/sex addiction has been their entire marriage. Finally, about a month ago, he started into serious recovery. But, over that same year, she was so deeply impacted by his betrayal that she went to every possible length (money, time and energy) to try to modify her body to compete with or match up to what he had been seeking in his porn use.  This even drove her to struggles with anorexia and a complete mental breakdown. She realized she could never win this competition/contest!

At the end of the detailed recounting of all she's been through (which was heart-breaking), she asked the following—"Will his addiction keep him from seeing me the way I so desperately want to be seen in his eyes? Or are all the signs pointing to me just never being able to be enough?"

-  Why is sex and sexuality such a high priority and singular focus in our culture?

-  What does it mean to be "sexy" and "sexual"—what are the deep needs behind these?

-  Why is it unrealistic, inauthentic and unhealthy to seek to compete with sexual fantasies?

-  After more than 20 years working with partners suffering from betrayal trauma, what have Mark and Steve found that these individuals actually and truly want/need from their addict partners?

-  How has our culture confused sex/sexuality and true, human intimacy?

-  For the partners of porn/sex addicts—In what ways can your partner choose, pursue and create safety for you? How can your partner authentically meet your wants and needs on a consistent basis? 


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 210, Mark & Steve address an issue that comes up often in porn/sex addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing—the challenges of ADHD that seem to often correlate with, and/or accompany addiction. This episode is in response to a situation submitted by a PBSE listener—

"I have heard there is a correlation between ADHD and addiction. Have you noticed this in your practice, and what is your advice to both addict and partner on how to cope and battle through both issues collaboratively? I looked into the symptoms of ADHD and some of my long term frustrations with my partner could fit that. But others don’t. It’s hard to know what could be attributed to the addiction (emotional immaturity and selfishness) versus what could be ADHD related."

-  Mark talks about his own life-long struggle with ADHD symptoms and addiction.

-  How ADHD and porn/sex addiction symptoms can correlate and cross over in a variety of ways.

-  How porn use, as well as other online practices can "fuel" already existing ADHD symptoms and vice-versa.

-  What can an addict in recovery do to also manage his ADHD symptoms/challenges?

-  What can the partner of an addict do to support him in his "dual" struggles—without crossing the line into rescuing, over-owning, playing policewoman, etc?

-  How can a couple come together to collaborate as a team in facing these issues?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services