Logo
    Search

    Podcast Summary

    • The Debate Over America's Institutions: Fixing the Current Order or Complete Reset?A significant debate in America revolves around fixing the current order or advocating for a complete reset in our institutions, and understanding this divide is crucial for individuals and businesses.

      We're witnessing a significant debate in America regarding the state of our institutions. According to Allana Newhouse, editor in chief of Tablet and author of the essay "Brokenism," this debate isn't about traditional political labels like Republican or Democrat, but rather about those who believe in fixing the current order (status quoists) and those who advocate for a complete reset (brokenness). Newhouse's essay offers a new perspective on the current political climate, and while it's essential to grapple with the nuances of her argument, it's clear that this debate about the future of our institutions is a vital one. The financial tools from Mercury and Wise can help simplify business operations and personal finances, allowing ambitious companies and individuals to focus on their goals. Whether you're dealing with complex financial transactions or navigating the intricacies of our political landscape, it's crucial to understand the bigger picture and how each piece contributes to the whole.

    • Understanding societal discourse through status quoist and brokenness perspectivesThe societal discourse can be categorized into two opposing views: those who value the established institutions despite their flaws (status quoists) and those who believe these institutions have decayed and require replacement (brokenness). This framework offers insight into ongoing debates.

      The current societal discourse can be understood through the lens of two opposing perspectives: the status quoists and the brokenness. Status quoists value the established institutions in American life, which provide safety, predictability, and opportunity, despite their perceived flaws. On the other hand, the brokenness viewpoint holds that these institutions have decayed and are no longer functional or reformable, necessitating new replacements. A poignant example of this tension is demonstrated through a reader named Ryan, who reached out to the author after reading an essay about societal brokenness. Ryan, a former veteran from Ohio, felt deeply connected to the author's sentiments and identified the divide in conversations as being rooted in the interlocutors' views on institutions. Despite his own leftist leanings, Ryan acknowledged that the debate now centers on the brokenist and status quoist perspectives. This insightful distinction offers a valuable framework for understanding the ongoing societal discourse.

    • Bridging the gap with personal experiencesEncouraging productive conversations about improving social safety net by sharing personal experiences and highlighting vulnerabilities, rather than getting bogged down in partisan debates.

      It's essential to recognize that not everyone in the country shares the same level of political consciousness or ideological commitments as the most engaged individuals. Many people are simply living their lives and may be disconnected from the polarized political atmosphere. This detachment could be a symptom of the brokenness in our institutions, but it might also be an opportunity to have productive conversations about improving the effectiveness of our social safety net, such as Medicaid, without getting bogged down in partisan debates. To help illustrate this concept, if you were explaining it to someone who isn't politically engaged, you could ask them about their personal experiences and vulnerabilities, such as having a child with special needs. By understanding their struggles and comparing them to their parents' experiences, you can help them see that the challenges they face are not normal and that our institutions could be doing more to support them. This approach can lead to more generative and future-oriented conversations about how to improve our institutions and make society more equitable for everyone.

    • Technology's Impact on Business and FinancesShopify and Wise offer effective solutions for businesses and managing money in different currencies respectively, but American institutions face challenges in adapting to technological advancements. Institutions must reevaluate their goals and adapt to new standards to thrive in the modern world.

      Technology is revolutionizing the way we conduct business and manage our finances, but not all institutions are able to keep up with these changes. In the discussion, Shopify was presented as a flexible and effective solution for businesses at every stage of growth, while Wise was highlighted as a convenient tool for managing money in different currencies. However, it was acknowledged that American institutions as a whole are facing challenges in adapting to these technological advancements. The speakers suggested that these revolutions have a cascading effect, forcing institutions to reevaluate their goals and adapt to new standards. Some will succeed, while others may struggle or even fail to keep up. Ultimately, it's important for individuals and businesses to find the tools and resources that can help them navigate these changes and thrive in the modern world.

    • Navigating societal challenges through technologyUnderstand societal issues' roots, identify cracks in the foundation, and adapt to new demands and systems to effectively address challenges

      Technology has created new demands and systems that institutions must adapt to, presenting both challenges and opportunities. The speaker acknowledges the potential for a distorted perspective when viewing the world through the Internet, but also recognizes the importance of understanding the root causes of societal issues. The responsibility lies in identifying the cracks in the foundation and working towards solutions, even if the current system is not perfect. People's perspectives can shift between acknowledging brokenness and maintaining the status quo, and the ability to navigate both can lead to effective judgement at a local level. Ultimately, it's essential to recognize the need for change and adaptability in the face of societal challenges.

    • Criticizing America's 'Broken' InstitutionsThe speaker sees America's openness to radical change as a strength, despite potential trauma, and believes some institutions are beyond repair, advocating for new ones to emerge.

      The speaker expresses a critical perspective towards American institutions, which they refer to as their "brokenism." They believe that some institutions are beyond repair and require replacement, citing their ability for America to forget its past and embrace change as a reason for this view. The speaker sees America's openness to radical change as a strength, even if it comes with trauma. They also acknowledge the potential for violence and brutality in this process but remain optimistic about the possibility of something new emerging in the future. It's important to note that the speaker's criticism is directed towards institutions and not America itself. They view America as a place of opportunity for change and growth.

    • The horseshoe theory: Extremes are closer than they seemThe horseshoe theory oversimplifies the political landscape, dividing it into two extremes that are closer to each other than to the mainstream. A more productive approach is to focus on improving institutions and bringing people together, regardless of their ideological leanings.

      The conventional left-right political categories are becoming increasingly meaningless as extremes on both sides converge. This phenomenon, known as the horseshoe theory, suggests that the extremes are closer to each other than they are to the mainstream cohorts on their own sides. While it's true that there are examples of this convergence in American politics, such as Glenn Greenwald appearing on Tucker Carlson's right-wing program, the horseshoe theory is more of a rhetorical argument used to dismiss certain voices as illegitimate based on their ideological position. Instead, it's more productive to view the political landscape as a new circle with two sides: those on the far extremes of both sides, and centrists. Despite their differences, both the far left and the far right may agree that the system needs to be dismantled. However, it's important to note that this framework is only useful if it helps us understand the current societal situation. I believe that the left-right framework is no longer effective in achieving this goal. Instead, focusing on the health and improvement of institutions can bring people together, regardless of their ideological leanings.

    • Navigating the Cultural DivideAcknowledge the cultural divide, foster open dialogue, and work towards greater ideological diversity and representation to build a better future.

      We are living in a time of significant political and cultural change, which has led to a scrambled political landscape and a collapse of trust in mainstream institutions. This divide between elites and the public is generating tension and making meaningful conversation and understanding each other's perspectives challenging. The language and labels of the past, such as left and right, no longer neatly fit the current political reality. It's important to acknowledge the existence of this cultural divide, but also to strive for a better future by fostering open and honest dialogue, and working towards greater ideological diversity and representation in our dominant institutions. The past, with its high-trust local communities and geographically organized elites, may offer some insights, but we cannot simply return to the past. Instead, we must navigate this interregnum with care and a commitment to understanding each other's perspectives.

    • The Jewish experience teaches us to stay connected and vigilantEngage with the world honestly and creatively, while staying aware of societal cracks and weaknesses for a stronger community and personal well-being.

      Throughout history, the Jewish experience has taught the importance of staying connected to one's community and being vigilant in observing signs of decay or danger in society. This perspective, rooted in a historical tradition that demands constant remembering, can provide valuable insights for understanding the health of a society and taking action to strengthen it. The speaker emphasizes the importance of engaging with the world around us honestly and creatively, while also being aware of potential cracks or weaknesses in the structures that support our lives. This approach, drawn from the Jewish experience, can help us navigate the current period of societal flux and ensure the well-being of ourselves and those around us.

    • Exploring new opportunities instead of destroying old systemsConsider historical context and potential outcomes before making significant changes, and imagine new opportunities instead of destroying old systems.

      While there may be challenges and issues with current institutions and societal structures, it's important to consider the potential consequences of abandoning them without a clear plan for what comes next. The speaker suggests that quiet shifts and reimagining of systems, rather than outright rejection, may be a more productive approach to addressing societal issues. The concept of "brokenism" refers to this idea of imagining and creating new opportunities and options, rather than destroying what already exists. It's essential to consider the historical context and potential outcomes before making significant changes. The speaker encourages a thoughtful, imaginative approach to societal issues, rather than a destructive one.

    • From brokenism to buildism: Shifting the political narrativeUnderstanding the current political climate's frustration and moving towards building a new vision is crucial for progress.

      The current political climate, particularly on the right, can be characterized by a sense of frustration and a rejection of the present order. This attitude, referred to as "brokenism," can lead to a dead end if no coherent alternative vision is presented. It's important to acknowledge and understand this feeling, but it's also crucial to consider what comes next. The challenge is to move beyond frustration and towards building something new. This shift from brokenism to buildism may be a brief moment in history, but it's an essential step towards progress. The use of terms like "brokenism" and "buildism" can help clarify the stakes of the debate and capture the zeitgeist of the moment. Overall, this conversation highlighted the importance of having a language that reflects the current political climate and encourages constructive action.

    • Examining Complex Issues through 'Subversive' PerspectivesRecognize root causes, evaluate consequences, and choose between breaking the mold or maintaining the status quo based on personal values.

      Understanding the distinction between "brokenist" and "status quoist" perspectives can provide a new lens through which to examine complex issues. This discussion highlighted the importance of recognizing the root causes of problems and considering the potential consequences of various solutions. It's essential to critically evaluate the status quo and consider whether it's truly serving our needs, or if it's time to break the mold and try something new. Ultimately, the choice between being a brokenist or a status quoist depends on one's perspective and values. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your network and tune in for more thought-provoking discussions on Mondays and Thursdays. Let us know your thoughts on this topic by dropping a line at thegrayarea@vox.com.

    Recent Episodes from The Gray Area with Sean Illing

    The existential freedom of Blackness

    The existential freedom of Blackness
    Nathalie Etoke joins The Gray Area to talk about existentialism, the Black experience, and the legacy of dehumanization.  Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Nathalie Etoke. Her book is Black Existential Freedom. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    The world after nuclear war

    The world after nuclear war
    A mile of pure fire. A flash that melts everything — titanium, steel, lead, people. A blast that mows down every structure in its path, 3 miles out in every direction. Journalist Annie Jacobsen spent years interviewing scientists, high-ranking military officials, politicians, and other experts to find out how a nuclear attack would be triggered, the devastation it would cause, the ruptures it would create in the social fabric, and how likely it is to happen today. She wrote about all of this in her new book Nuclear War: A Scenario. Jacobsen spends the hour clearly laying out the horrifying yet captivating specifics for Sean, and the prospects for avoiding catastrophe.  Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Annie Jacobsen. Her book is Nuclear War: A Scenario Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Gaza, Camus, and the logic of violence

    Gaza, Camus, and the logic of violence
    Albert Camus was a Nobel-winning French writer and public intellectual. During Algeria’s bloody war for independence in the 1950s, Camus took a measured stance, calling for an end to the atrocities on each side. He was criticized widely for his so-called “moderation.” Philosophy professor Robert Zaretsky joins Sean to discuss Camus’s thoughts on that conflict and the parallels with the present moment. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Robert Zaretsky Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    This is your kid on smartphones

    This is your kid on smartphones
    Old people have always worried about young people. But psychologist Jonathan Haidt believes something genuinely different and troubling is happening right now. He argues that smartphones and social media have had disastrous effects on the mental health of young people, and derailed childhood from real world play to touchscreens. He joins Sean to talk about his research and some of the criticisms of it. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Jonathan Haidt (@jonhaidt). His book is The Anxious Generation. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Life after death?

    Life after death?
    Sebastian Junger came as close as you possibly can to dying. While his doctors struggled to revive him, the veteran reporter and avowed rationalist experienced things that shocked and shook him, leaving him with profound questions and unexpected revelations. In his new book, In My Time of Dying, Junger explores the mysteries and commonalities of people’s near death experiences. He joins Sean to talk about what it’s like to die and what quantum physics can tell us about living that countless religions can’t. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Sebastian Junger. His new book is In My Time of Dying. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    The world after Ozempic

    The world after Ozempic
    Ozempic and other new weight loss drugs are being touted as potential miracle cures for diabetes and obesity. Journalist Johann Hari experimented with the drug and dropped 40 pounds. In his new book, Magic Pill, Hari discusses his experience with Ozempic and speaks to many of the leading scientists to better understand how the drug works. He joins Sean to talk about what he’s learned and the complicated trade-offs involved in the decision to take these drugs. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Johann Hari (@johannhari101). His new book is Magic Pill. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Cristian Ayala Please take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurvey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    UFOs, God, and the edge of understanding

    UFOs, God, and the edge of understanding
    Religious studies professor Diana Pasulka was a total nonbeliever in alien life, but she began to question this after speaking with many people who claim to have had otherworldly encounters. She also noticed how these accounts parallel the foundational texts of many religions. She has since written two books on the topic, the most recent of which is Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences. She joins Sean to talk about extraterrestrial life, God, angels, and the renewed interest in UFOs.  Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Diana Pasulka (@dwpasulka). Her new book is Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Please take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurvey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    How to listen

    How to listen
    Most of us don’t know how to truly listen, and it’s causing all sorts of problems. Sean Illing is joined by journalist Kate Murphy, the author of You’re Not Listening: What You’re Missing and Why It Matters, to discuss what it means to be a good listener, the problems that are caused when we don’t listen to each other, and the positive impacts on our health when we do. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Kate Murphy, author of You’re Not Listening: What You’re Missing and Why It Matters Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Please take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurvey This episode was made by:  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Everything's a cult now

    Everything's a cult now
    The internet has fractured our world into a million little subcultures catering to the specific identities and habits of everyone online. Writer Derek Thompson believes this has led to a widespread cult-like mentality that has crept into all facets of modern life — pop culture, media, politics, and religion itself. He joins Sean to explain this theory, and why it’s maybe not such a bad thing. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Derek Thompson (@dkthomp). His podcast is Plain English, and he writes for The Atlantic. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Please take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurvey This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Fareed Zakaria on our revolutionary moment

    Fareed Zakaria on our revolutionary moment
    Is it possible that we are living through one of the most revolutionary periods in human history? CNN’s Fareed Zakaria believes that we are and argues that the convergence of AI and the global backlash against liberal democracy are upending political orders around the world. He joins Sean to talk about how this period relates to history’s most impactful revolutions, both political and technological.  Click here to take the Vox podcast survey Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Fareed Zakaria (@fareedzakaria). His new book is Age of Revolutions. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Please take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurvey This episode was made by:  Producer: Jon Ehrens  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Related Episodes

    Ep. 6 - Rachel's Story: A Journey of Teen Pregnancy and Adoption & Learning to Let Go of Being In Control

    Ep. 6 - Rachel's Story: A Journey of Teen Pregnancy and Adoption & Learning to Let Go of Being In Control

    Tune in to this episode as we sit down with Rachel Broussard, a mom, wife, and therapist, as she shares her remarkable life journey. From facing the trials of teen pregnancy to making a brave decision to place a child for adoption, Rachel opens up about her path to adoption years later. Join us as we delve into her experiences with interracial marriage, raising biracial children, and the valuable insights she's gained about setting healthy boundaries while parenting a young adult and learning to let go of control. It's an episode full of heart, growth, and authenticity. 

    LINKS

    FOLLOW



    The Social Safety Net as an Investment -- Goldman Stories: Hilary Hoynes

    The Social Safety Net as an Investment -- Goldman Stories: Hilary Hoynes
    More than one in ten children in the United States live in poverty. There are two main programs aimed at helping them and their families: the earned income tax credit, and food stamps. Hilary Hoynes studies these programs and other aspects of the social safety net at UC Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy. She has gone through decades of research to find that these programs act as an investment, improving the lives of the children who benefit from them for decades to come. Series: "UC Public Policy Channel" [Public Affairs] [Show ID: 35617]

    RWH040: Go Global w/ Laura Geritz

    RWH040: Go Global w/ Laura Geritz
    In this episode, William Green chats with Laura Geritz, founder of Rondure Global Advisors, which scours the globe in search of high-quality companies trading at attractive prices in places like India, China, Japan, Thailand, Taiwan, Turkey, Brazil, & Mexico. Here, Laura makes the case for allocating more money to undervalued stocks outside the US. She also discusses her unusual lifestyle, which is built around relentless travel, voracious reading, & abundant time to think. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 08:15 - How Laura Geritz earned the nickname “Money Bags.” 09:41 - How she broke into the investment industry by living in Japan. 12:55 - How she was shaped by the frugal, unflashy culture of rural Kansas. 22:57 - What she learned from her mentor & partner, Robert Gardiner. 30:14 - Why so many talented women quit the investment business. 36:54 - Why she believes many investors are taking too much risk. 38:56 - Why foreign stocks may be overdue for a powerful rebound. 41:20 - How she weighs the risks & rewards of Chinese stocks. 52:26 - How she screens 70,000 stocks to identify great businesses. 1:03:36 - What foreign investors don’t understand about Japanese companies. 1:11:51 - How to become a continuous learning machine. 1:25:38 - How Laura handles adversity when her investing style is out of favor. 1:32:06 - Why she maintains a remarkably uncluttered calendar. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Laura Geritz’s investment firm, Rondure Global Advisors. Graham Greene’s book The Quiet American. Yasunari Kawabata’s book Snow Country. Michael Pollan’s book A Place of My Own. Rolf Potts’ book Vagabonding. Pico Iyer’s book The Half-Known Life. William Green’s podcast interview with Pico Iyer | YouTube Video. William Green’s book, “Richer, Wiser, Happier” – read the reviews of this book. Follow William Green on X (AKA Twitter). Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts.  SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Linkedin Marketing Solutions NetSuite Fidelity Shopify Toyota TurboTax Babbel American Express Business Gold Card Fundrise Vacasa HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    A Conservative's View on Democrats' Biggest Weakness

    A Conservative's View on Democrats' Biggest Weakness

    “There is definitely a contest for the future of the center right,” says Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank. In his telling, one side in this contest is “deeply pessimistic about the prospect of a diversifying America, explicitly anti-urban and increasingly willing to embrace redistribution and centralized power,” more so than conservatism before Donald Trump. This populist right has received a lot of attention since Trump’s election, and we’ve done other shows to try to understand it.

    But Salam is advancing a very different set of ideas with a very different theory of the electorate. He’s identified what he sees as a core fissure between the progressive elites who run the Democratic Party and the working-class voters of color who make up a large part of its base — particularly on issues of race and gender. And he believes that by putting forward an “urban conservative” agenda centered on education, housing and public safety, Republicans can exploit those internal cleavages and begin to win over demographics that have been central to the Democratic coalition.

    So for the final episode in our “The Rising Right” series, I wanted to use Salam’s thoughts to explore this alternate path for the American right. We discuss why the Republican Party has turned against major cities, whether antiracism is the right framework for addressing racial inequality, why he believes that children of Latino and Asian immigrants could become a core G.O.P. constituency, the difference between antiracism and “antiracialism,” the tactics of the anti-critical-race-theory movement, why he thinks there’s been an “overcorrection” on the right in favor of state power and redistribution, what a supply-side conservatism beyond just tax cuts could look like, why he believes we could be entering an era of “fiscal constraints” that could radically reshape policymaking on both the left and right and more.

    Mentioned:

    The Anti-C.R.T. Movement and a Vision For a New Right Wing” by Jay Caspian Kang

    America Needs Anti-Racialism” by Reihan Salam

    Ibram X. Kendi on What Conservatives — and Liberals — Get Wrong About Antiracism” by The Ezra Klein Show

    Prison-Gang Politics” by Christopher F. Rufo

    Book recommendations:

    Classified by David E. Bernstein

    Criminal (In)Justice by Rafael A. Mangual

    Sir Vidia’s Shadow by Paul Theroux

    The Strategy of Denial by Elbridge A. Colby

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu and Mary Marge Locker; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing and engineering by Jeff Geld; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.