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    Steven Kotler - How the State of Flow Transforms Your Wellbeing

    en-usFebruary 17, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Understanding Flow: Mental and Physical PerformanceFlow is a state of optimal performance that enhances mental and physical skills, leading to overall well-being, life satisfaction, meaning, and purpose.

      Learning from this conversation with Steven Kotler is that flow, or optimal performance, is about more than just efficiency and productivity. It's about getting our biology to work for us rather than against us, and it encompasses both mental and physical performance. Flow leads to improved cognitive skills like motivation, creativity, and productivity, but it also underpins overall well-being, life satisfaction, meaning, and purpose. Peak performance, as defined by Kotler, is not a new concept, with its roots tracing back to the late 1800s and pioneers like William James. By optimizing both mental and physical skills, we can achieve a state of flow where we feel our best and perform our best. This concept goes beyond just improving efficiency and productivity, and is a key to overall happiness and fulfillment.

    • Find your flow activity for ultimate happiness and satisfactionTo achieve the highest level of happiness and overall life satisfaction, identify the activity that puts you in a state of flow and focus on it regularly.

      To experience the highest level of happiness and overall life satisfaction, it's essential to align our goals with the activities that put us into a state of flow. This state of flow, also known as being "in the zone," is when we are fully engaged and focused on a task, and it brings a sense of enjoyment and purpose. This concept goes beyond just efficiency and productivity, as it also taps into our neurobiological needs. Each person has a primary flow activity, which is the thing they've been doing since childhood that drops them into flow the most. Flow states have triggers, such as risk, which can vary from person to person and can be harnessed to drive attention into the present moment. By understanding and optimizing these flow triggers, we can enhance our overall well-being and performance.

    • Prioritizing primary flow activities for 3 hours a week prevents burnout and depressionIncorporating 3 hours of primary flow activities weekly can enhance performance and well-being, preventing burnout and depression.

      Engaging in our primary flow activity for about 3 hours a week can help prevent burnout and depression. This research, which emerged during the COVID-19 pandemic, showed that those who doubled down on their primary flow activities during that time are now flourishing, while others drove themselves into burnout. Our primary flow activities, which are usually activities with core triggers that work best for us, can change as we age, but it's crucial to prioritize them to maintain optimal performance and well-being. Adult life often encourages us to put away childish things and focus on work and responsibilities, but neglecting our primary flow activities can lead to soul-crushing consequences. Therefore, making time for activities that nurture our souls, even if they seem trivial or unimportant, is essential for peak performance and overall well-being.

    • Making time for creative pursuits boosts mental and emotional well-beingRegular creative activities reduce stress, build cognitive reserve, and promote overall health and happiness

      Making time for creative pursuits regularly can significantly improve mental and emotional well-being. This was a game-changing discovery for the speaker, who added a weekly "creative time" block to his schedule and saw a noticeable reduction in stress and burnout. This concept ties into the idea of cognitive reserve, which is the brain's ability to protect against age-related cognitive decline by learning and engaging in new activities. The more diverse our mental and intellectual pursuits, the more cognitive reserve we build, and the better equipped we are to stave off conditions like Alzheimer's and dementia. The speaker's experience underscores the importance of prioritizing creative activities and lifelong learning, not just for peak performance but also for overall health and happiness.

    • Learning new skills for flow in later yearsTo maintain a high quality of life as we age, it's crucial to have multiple flow-generating skills. Stretch but don't snap by focusing on skills that challenge but don't overwhelm.

      As we age, it's essential to have multiple flow-generating skills to maintain a high quality of life. This was a lesson shared by a friend of the speaker, who regretted relying too heavily on one activity (rock climbing) that he could no longer do in his later years. To apply this lesson, the speaker started teaching himself how to draw as a daily, calming flow activity. However, it's important to note that flow follows focus and challenge skills balance. You want to stretch but not snap, meaning you need enough skill to automate the process but not be too proficient that it becomes mundane. The speaker, who had a degree in art, used his instincts and love for art to create the illusion of proficiency in his earlier art classes. Now, he's working to gain the technical proficiency to complement his instincts. By setting tight constraints, he's able to struggle through the learning process while staying engaged and avoiding boredom.

    • The debate over goal-directed flow vs play in neurobiological terms is mootBoth goal-directed flow and play release dopamine and activate the same brain regions, essential for personal growth and maintaining mental and physical agility as we age.

      The debate over the difference between goal-directed flow and play in neurobiological terms is a moot point, as both lead to the release of dopamine and activate the same brain regions. This lengthy debate in Europe during the 1990s hindered progress in the field. Additionally, the modern world often demonizes play, but engaging in activities that bring us into a state of flow, whether goal-directed or not, is essential for personal growth and maintaining mental and physical agility as we age. The World Health Organization now acknowledges that skills we once believed were lost with age must be actively trained to maintain. To stay mentally and physically sharp, one must commit to training as seriously as an amateur athlete.

    • Staying Active: The Key to Optimal Health and LongevityAim for 150-300 minutes of vigorous exercise weekly, including cardio, strength training, and balance activities. Prioritize thigh muscle mass and consider multi-tool solutions for efficient recovery.

      For optimal health and longevity, regular physical activity is essential. This includes both cardio and strength training, as well as focusing on balance, agility, and flexibility. The numbers may vary, but aim for around 150 to 300 minutes of vigorous exercise per week. It's important to train all aspects of fitness at once, rather than focusing on just one type of exercise. Thigh muscle mass is a crucial factor in longevity, and lifting heavy weights can help preserve bone density and cognitive function. For efficient recovery, consider using multi-tool solutions like infrared saunas, meditation, and restorative activities, which can lower cortisol levels and promote overall well-being.

    • Boost Creativity and Focus with Daily PracticesIncorporate breath work, sauna use, reading, and uninterrupted concentration daily for improved creativity, focus, and overall well-being. These practices can enhance cardiovascular and lung function, calm the nervous system, stimulate pattern recognition, and maximize productivity.

      Incorporating various practices into your daily routine can significantly enhance your creativity, focus, and overall well-being. The speaker emphasizes the benefits of breath work in a sauna, which can improve cardiovascular and lung function, as well as calm the nervous system. Additionally, reading material outside of one's skillset can stimulate pattern recognition and lead to new connections and ideas. The speaker also suggests starting the day with a 90-minute block of uninterrupted concentration, in accordance with your circadian rhythms, to maximize productivity and focus. By incorporating these practices, such as breath work, sauna use, reading, and uninterrupted concentration, you can prime your brain for creativity and flow, leading to increased productivity and overall well-being. This approach can be thought of as a "multi-tool solution," as it addresses multiple aspects of mental and physical health. The time commitment for these practices is approximately an hour a day.

    • Achieving flow for maximum productivity and creativityCommunicate the need for uninterrupted focus to significant others, bosses, and colleagues. Create an environment that supports flow by prioritizing psychological safety and optimal performance conditions to amplify creativity up to 5x and increase productivity.

      Maximizing productivity and creativity requires uninterrupted focus, also known as being in a state of flow. This state can amplify creativity up to 500% above baseline, allowing individuals to accomplish in two hours what would normally take eight hours. To achieve this state, it's essential to communicate the need for uninterrupted focus with significant others, bosses, and colleagues. In personal life and in organizations, creating an environment that supports flow is crucial. This includes having conversations about the importance of psychological safety and creating conditions that enable optimal performance. Neglecting this need for flow can lead to high turnover rates and decreased productivity. In essence, allowing individuals to fully immerse themselves in their work leads to greater success for both individuals and organizations.

    • The Addiction to Flow in StartupsBeing part of a high-performing team in a startup leads to personal growth through the release of neurochemicals like dopamine and serotonin, creating an addictive state of flow that drives individuals to continuously improve and extend themselves.

      Being part of a high-performing team in a startup environment, where there's constant flow and new projects, can be addictive due to the release of neurochemicals like dopamine and serotonin. This "addiction to flow" is different from other addictions because it drives individuals to continuously improve and extend themselves, leading to personal growth rather than regression. The startup culture, with its group flow and non-stop momentum towards product launches, is what makes these companies so engaging and hard to leave. Research suggests that this state of flow, which involves optimal engagement and enjoyment in an activity, is particularly addictive due to the presence of multiple neurochemicals, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, and endorphins. Unlike other addictions, which often lead individuals backwards, the addiction to flow propels them forward, making it a powerful motivator for personal and professional growth.

    • The Addictive Nature of FlowFlow, or being fully immersed in an activity, can lead to addictive behavior and unnecessary risks. To experience flow more often, focus on joyful, engaging activities and find balance to avoid harm.

      Flow, or being fully immersed in an activity, can be addictive and have a dark side. It can lead individuals to take unnecessary risks in pursuit of achieving a flow state. This can stem from past experiences, such as overcoming fear or feeling a sense of superiority. To experience flow more often, one can double down on their primary flow activity and identify it through the increased neurochemical production during flow states, which helps memory and learning. Practically, this means focusing on activities that bring joy and engagement, and making time for them regularly. However, it's important to be aware of the potential risks and find a balance to avoid taking on too much and putting oneself in harm's way.

    • Identifying your primary flow activity and optimizing your environmentDetermine what activity brings you into a state of flow, set aside dedicated time, work within comfort zone but just outside skills, and write out daily goals to enhance productivity and overall life satisfaction.

      Identifying your primary flow activity and optimizing your environment for uninterrupted concentration can significantly enhance productivity and overall life satisfaction. By reflecting on your past memories and identifying commonalities, you can determine what activity brings you into a state of flow. Once identified, set aside dedicated time for this activity each day, starting with smaller blocks if necessary, and gradually increasing the duration. Additionally, aim to work within your comfort zone but just outside your skills, creating a balance between challenge and skill level. Clear goals are also crucial for maintaining focus and entering a state of flow. Write out your goals daily to lower cognitive load and increase focus, allowing for optimal productivity and a more fulfilling work experience.

    • Setting clear goals and focusing on top tasksWriting down tasks, prioritizing hardest one, limiting daily tasks, and practicing flow activities, active recovery, and gratitude can boost productivity and well-being

      Creating a clear goals list and focusing on your most important tasks first can significantly improve productivity by lowering cognitive load and freeing up mental energy. This simple practice involves writing down all tasks that require energy, starting with your hardest task, and limiting the number of tasks to what you can excel at each day. Additionally, incorporating regular flow activities, active recovery, and daily gratitude practice can help prevent burnout and maintain optimal performance. By keeping it simple and consistent, these habits can make a big difference in your daily productivity and overall well-being.

    • Understanding Brain's Pattern Recognition SystemRecognize brain's natural tendencies, keep commitments to build trust and reliability, and optimize behavior for peak performance in aging.

      Our brains are wired to conserve energy and make predictions based on past behavior. We often prioritize tasks based on a mental to-do list, but if we fail to follow through on commitments, our brains may stop investing energy into those tasks. This pattern recognition system is at the core of the brain's function, and understanding it can help us optimize our behavior and improve our performance. The speaker emphasized the importance of keeping commitments to ourselves, as this not only helps us build trust with ourselves but also signals to our brains that we are reliable and worth investing energy in. By recognizing the brain's natural tendencies and leveraging them, we can make the most of our limited resources and achieve peak performance in aging. It's essential to treat our commitments as non-negotiable, as the brain pays close attention to our follow-through and uses it to determine how to allocate energy in the future. This concept applies to various aspects of life, from personal goals to professional development, and can significantly impact our overall well-being and success.

    • Recognizing the importance of honesty with ourselvesHonesty with ourselves leads to positive impacts on neurobiology and overall well-being, while lying can have negative effects. Focus on learning and growing to become the experts we aspire to be.

      Our brains have a built-in bullshit detector that we often fail to recognize when it comes to ourselves. Lying to ourselves or pretending to be something we're not can have negative effects on our neurobiology and overall well-being. Gratitude, on the other hand, is based on truth and can lead to positive impacts. We all have the power to be honest with ourselves and take control of our lives by making conscious choices. The idea that one day we'll magically become successful or happy is a myth – our lives are what we make them. It's essential to recognize that we are in charge of our fate and that small daily decisions add up to significant accomplishments and improvements in quality of life. Instead of pretending to be something we're not, we should focus on learning and growing to become the experts we aspire to be.

    • Consistent practice and entering a state of flow leads to peak performanceDaily routines or checklists help manage emotions and lead to peak performance through consistent practice and entering a state of flow

      Peak performance is achieved through consistent practice and entering a state of flow, similar to how compound interest grows over time. Successful people, like Richard Branson and Maslow, have understood this concept for decades. To reach peak performance, it's essential to have a daily routine or checklist that you stick to, regardless of emotions or external circumstances. This routine serves as a way to manage emotions and the byproduct is peak performance. Developing this routine is a personal tool for self-mastery and resilience. It took the speaker a long time to get their act together, but by implementing this principle, they were able to turn their life around and become a successful writer.

    • Daily practices for emotional regulation and peak performanceConsistent daily practices like writing and working out can help individuals achieve emotional regulation, reach a flow state, and unlock their full potential for peak performance and self-alignment. Prioritize these practices and explore resources for further guidance.

      Consistent daily practices, such as writing and working out, can help individuals achieve emotional regulation and ultimately reach a flow state. This state enables peak performance and alignment with one's true self. Steven's work emphasizes the importance of prioritizing these practices and encourages readers to explore his resources for further guidance. The conversation also highlighted the importance of slowing down and finding time to flow, even in the midst of a busy lifestyle. By incorporating these practices into daily routines, individuals can unlock their full potential and live more fulfilling lives.

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    • And How we can Begin Generational Healing

    For more wisdom and guidance from Dr. Gabor Maté, follow him on Instagram or visit: https://drgabormate.com

    YouTube: @mogawdatofficial
    Instagram: @mo_gawdat
    Facebook: @mo.gawdat.official
    LinkedIn: /in/mogawdat
    Tiktok: @mogawdat
    X: @mgawdat
    Website: mogawdat.com

    Don't forget to subscribe to Slo Mo for new episodes every Saturday. Only with your help can we reach One Billion Happy #onebillionhappy

    Unstressable with Robert Sapolsky - Revealing Humanity's Inner Workings

    Unstressable with Robert Sapolsky - Revealing Humanity's Inner Workings

    Today I'll start with a gentle reminder that our upcoming book "Unstressable: A Practical Guide to Stress-Free Living" is available for preorder. It is written by me, Mo Gawdat and my wonderful co-author Alice Law and we hope it will truly make an impact in getting a million people out of Stress.

    To help us learn more about Stress, in this episode of Slo Mo, I am honored to welcome Robert Sapolsky, a luminary in the field of neuroscience and a master storyteller of human behavior. A truly remarkable human being. Like a deep and engaging dialogue between friends, Robert shares his journey through the intricate maze of the human brain, discussing the marvels of biology that underpin our emotions, actions, and the essence of what makes us human.

    Beyond his groundbreaking research on stress, Robert explores his passion for teaching, his profound insights into the intersection of biology and behavior, and his unyielding curiosity about the human condition. This episode is a celebration of intellectual exploration, the wonders of scientific discovery, and the profound impact of sharing knowledge to illuminate the mysteries of our existence.

    Listen as we discuss:

    • The upcoming release of Unstressable
    • The Biology of Stress
    • How our Compassion sometimes contributes to our Stress
    • How humans are a species of Contradictions
    • How Contextual is Stress
    • The Evolution of our Tribal mentality 
    • Dopamine
    • Free Will
    • The Positive impact we can make

    For more insights and inspiration from Robert Sapolsky, dive into his lectures and books (his most recent: https://a.co/d/iZTAUed), and follow his work at the forefront of neuroscience and behavior. To stay in touch with Robert, you can follow his academic contributions and public engagements, or subscribe to his Instagram page.

    YouTube: @mogawdatofficial
    Instagram: @mo_gawdat
    Facebook: @mo.gawdat.official
    LinkedIn: /in/mogawdat
    Tiktok: @mogawdat
    X: @mgawdat
    Website: mogawdat.com

    Don't forget to subscribe to Slo Mo for new episodes every Saturday. Only with your help can we reach One Billion Happy #onebillionhappy

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    Nir Eyal is the author of two best-selling books, Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life. He writes, consults, and teaches at the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. His books have sold over 1 million copies in more than 30 languages; he has taught at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business and its Design School; and he has started and sold two startups since 2003. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Strategies for becoming less distractible and improving focus

    • The difference between distraction and “traction”

    • Reactive work vs. reflexive work and why you should book time in your calendar

    • The 10-minute rule to overcome internal triggers and stay focused

    • The problem with to-do lists, and what to do instead

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    Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams | Teal—Your personal career growth platform

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/strategies-for-becoming-less-distracted-and-improving-focus-nir-eyal-author-of-indistractable-and/

    Where to find Nir Eyal:

    • X: https://twitter.com/nireyal

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nireyal/

    • Website: https://www.nirandfar.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Nir’s background

    (04:20) How to become less distractible

    (07:43) Understanding distraction and traction

    (12:52) The four steps to becoming indistractable

    (13:53) Mastering internal triggers

    (18:49) Surfing the urge with a 10-minute timer

    (23:20) Making time for traction with a timebox schedule

    (25:02) How to turn your values into time

    (28:36) Booking deep work time

    (29:22) Making pacts to prevent distraction

    (31:00) The problem with to-do lists

    (34:31) The drawback of deadlines

    (36:08) Distraction is an emotion regulation problem

    (39:54) Hacking back external triggers

    (45:03) Preventing distraction with pacts

    (48:18) Specific tools to hold you accountable

    (53:42) Managing emotions and discomfort

    (56:37) Taking responsibility and being high-agency

    (01:00:09) Becoming indistractable at work

    (01:05:04) Schedule syncing to align with managers

    (01:09:36) We are not as hooked on technology as people think

    (01:16:00) Life purpose and personal responsibility

    (01:17:38) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life: https://www.amazon.com/Indistractable-Control-Your-Attention-Choose/dp/194883653X

    Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-Products/dp/1591847788

    • Dorothy Parker’s quote: https://twitter.com/nireyal/status/1472280598723108866

    • “Writing is bleeding” quote: https://www.hemingwaysociety.org/quotation-controversy-writing-and-bleeding

    • The Pomodoro Technique Explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryancollinseurope/2020/03/03/the-pomodoro-technique/

    • Timeboxing: Why It Works and How to Get Started in 2024: https://www.nirandfar.com/timeboxing/

    • Using your working time well - Issue 22: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/time-management-issue-22

    • All-In podcast: https://www.allinpodcast.co/

    • Nir’s post about “the planning fallacy”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nireyal_why-do-tasks-always-seem-to-take-longer-than-activity-7137440438939959297-XIUB/

    • How the Ancient Greeks Beat Distraction: https://www.nirandfar.com/tantalizing-distractions/

    • Jeremy Bentham: https://iep.utm.edu/jeremy-bentham

    • An overview of Sigmund Freud’s pleasure principle: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/pleasure-principle

    The Matrix “There is no spoon” scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtO5dMqEI

    • Outlet timer: https://www.amazon.com/Century-Indoor-24-Hour-Mechanical-Outlet/dp/B01LPSGBZS

    • Forest app: https://www.forestapp.cc/

    • Focusmate: https://www.focusmate.com/

    • Have We Been Thinking About Willpower the Wrong Way for 30 Years?: https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpower-the-wrong-way-for-30-years

    • We Need Social Antibodies to Fight the Disease of Distraction: https://nireyal.medium.com/we-need-social-antibodies-to-fight-the-disease-of-distraction-51f9187be016

    • The Mere Presence of Your Smartphone Reduces Brain Power, Study Shows: https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your-smartphone-reduces-brain-power

    • Leading in Tough Times: HBS Faculty Member Amy C. Edmondson on Psychological Safety: https://www.hbs.edu/recruiting/insights-and-advice/blog/post/leading-in-tough-times

    • If Tech Is So Distracting, How Do Slack Employees Stay So Focused?: https://www.nirandfar.com/slack-use/

    • Managing up: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/managing-up

    • Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/

    • FitBot: https://www.fitbotapp.com/

    • Paulo Coelho’s quote: https://twitter.com/paulocoelho/status/416264984188825600

    Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Curious-Science-Creating-Business/dp/006238841X

    The Experience Machine: How Our Minds Predict and Shape Reality: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Machine-Minds-Predict-Reality/dp/1524748455

    Empire of the Sun on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Sun-Christian-Bale/dp/B001N3JY82

    • Sesame grinder: https://www.miyacompany.com/450-014-450-014

    • Muji pens: https://www.muji.us/collections/pen-pencils

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



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