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    • Reflecting on the Ethics of Wildlife TourismConsidering the ethical implications of wildlife tourism experiences, and questioning whether they're worth potential harm to animals.

      Our comfort with coming close to predators, such as tigers, for touristic experiences can be questionable. Natasha Daley's experience at a captive tiger facility brought this to light when she witnessed a young boy's fear and discomfort at being forced to enter a tiger cage. This incident made Natasha reflect on the normal, natural reaction to being in such a situation and how it contrasts with the expectations of tourists. It's essential to consider the ethical implications of wildlife tourism and whether the experiences we seek out are truly worth the potential harm to the animals involved. Additionally, Natasha's own past experiences with wildlife tourism, such as riding an elephant, make her question the memories she holds and the impact they may have on the animals.

    • Wildlife Tourism: Balancing Close Encounters with Animal WelfareWildlife tourism can lead to harmful consequences for animals through practices like drugging or claw removal. Tourists should prioritize animal welfare and avoid activities that exploit animals for entertainment.

      Wildlife tourism, which can include observing animals in their natural habitats or interacting with them up close, has become a significant part of many people's vacation experiences. However, the desire for close encounters can sometimes lead to animals being treated in ways that are harmful or exploitative. Many wild animals, such as tigers, elephants, and bears, have their claws removed or are drugged to make them more manageable for tourists. This raises ethical concerns about the treatment of these animals and the potential long-term consequences for their well-being. Additionally, the rise of social media has fueled the demand for exotic animal encounters, leading some people to view animals as props rather than living beings. It's important for tourists to be aware of the potential harm caused by certain wildlife tourism practices and to consider the welfare of the animals involved.

    • Thailand's Elephant Tourism Industry: A Lucrative Source of Income and Cultural TraditionThailand's elephant tourism industry, rooted in history and culture, provides income for the government and keepers while improving elephant living conditions, leading to a breeding industry subsidized by the government.

      Wildlife tourism, particularly elephant tourism in Thailand, serves as a significant moneymaker and a way for individuals to present themselves as adventurous and exciting on social media. With an estimated 38,100 captive elephants in Thailand, the majority of which are used in the tourism industry, this industry has deep roots in the country's economy and culture. The history of elephant use in Thailand dates back over a thousand years, but when logging was banned in 1989, many elephants and their keepers were left unemployed and begging in the streets. To address this issue, the Thai government initiated the "bring our elephants home" program, which aimed to bring elephants from urban areas back to rural countryside and establish a new form of enterprise in the tourism industry. This new industry not only improved the living conditions for elephants but also became a lucrative source of income for the Thai government. The demand for elephant interactions, particularly with baby elephants, has led to a breeding industry, which is subsidized by the government due to the significant contribution of tourism to Thailand's economy.

    • Elephants in captivity face isolation and monotonous existenceElephants in captivity often live in isolation, chained up and forced to perform tricks for tourists, contrasting their natural roaming habits in the wild.

      While elephant camps in beautiful locations like Chiang Mai, Thailand may seem idyllic, the reality is that captive elephants are often kept in stables with chains and are subjected to performing repetitive tricks for tourists all day long. Elephants, being social animals, can become isolated and form their closest relationships with their human caretakers, or Mahoots. However, even Mahoots who consider the elephants as part of their family may not have the freedom to treat them as they wish due to working for camp owners who may require them to force the elephants to perform. This monotonous and often forced existence contrasts sharply with the elephants' natural roaming habits in the wild.

    • Evolving Elephant Tourism: Ethical ApproachesSome elephant camps shift towards ethical practices, like Changchil, where tourists observe elephants in natural habitats without riding or performing tricks, benefiting both elephants and tourists. World Animal Protection supports these camps with assistance, and their success encourages others to follow suit.

      The elephant tourism industry is evolving, with some camps shifting away from traditional methods of interacting with elephants towards more ethical and humane practices. For instance, Changchil, an elephant camp near Chiang Mai, has adopted a new approach where tourists observe elephants in their natural habitat without riding or performing tricks. This not only benefits the elephants but also attracts tourists seeking authentic experiences. World Animal Protection is supporting Changchil by providing financial and technical assistance, helping build infrastructure and train guides. However, transitioning traditional camps to more ethical practices is a challenge, as business owners prioritize future-proofing their camps. Despite this, there is a growing demand for ethical elephant experiences, and successful camps like Changchil can serve as models for others to follow. Ultimately, it's crucial to continue advocating for elephant welfare and supporting camps that prioritize their wellbeing.

    • Collaborative approach for elephant welfareFocus on small improvements, involve all stakeholders for effective and sustainable elephant welfare in tourism camps

      Improving the welfare of captive elephants, particularly in tourism camps, requires a collaborative and incremental approach. Joshua Plotnik, an animal cognition researcher, emphasizes the importance of considering the livelihoods of camp owners and the potential unintended consequences of activism. Instead of pushing for drastic changes, efforts should focus on small improvements, such as increasing the length of elephant chains, allowing more social interaction, and providing enrichment. The involvement of all stakeholders, including camp owners, is crucial for implementing effective and sustainable changes in the elephant tourism industry.

    • Wildlife selfies leading to animal exploitation and rescueTourists' demand for wildlife selfies contributes to animal exploitation and captivity, creating a cycle of rescue and re-exploitation. Ethical and sustainable tourism practices are essential to break this cycle.

      The demand for wildlife selfies by tourists can lead to the exploitation and captivity of animals, creating a never-ending cycle of animal rescue and re-exploitation. In Porto Alegria, Peru, tourists flocked to see exotic animals, leading to their capture and confinement. When authorities intervened and rescued 22 animals, the town attempted to transition to eco-tourism with a culture museum and tourism organization. However, tourists were diverted to other locations where animals were still being kept for selfies. The solution seems unclear, but ultimately, tourists hold the power to make a difference by considering the ethical implications of their desire for wildlife selfies and choosing to support ethical and sustainable tourism practices instead.

    • Importance of ethical wildlife encounters during vacationsNational Geographic photographers share tips for capturing stunning wildlife images while respecting habitats. Ethical encounters ensure the safety and well-being of animals and their environments.

      Learning from this episode of Overheard at National Geographic is the importance of ethical wildlife encounters during your wild vacations. National Geographic photographers shared their tips on how to capture stunning images of wildlife while respecting their natural habitats. For more information on this topic and other fascinating insights from the show, be sure to check out the show notes in your podcast app. Additionally, we had the pleasure of acknowledging the team behind the scenes who make this podcast possible. From our producers Brian Gutierrez, Jacob Pinter, and Robin Minitor, to our editor Ibi Caputo, fact checker Michelle Harris, deputy director of podcast Emily Aksenslager, and composers Hans Dale Soo and Nick Anderson – we couldn't do it without you! Our hosts for this episode were Whitney Johnson, the director of visuals and immersive experiences, and Susan Goldberg, our editorial director. And I, Peter Gwen, had the privilege of guiding you through the conversation. Thank you for tuning in, and we look forward to bringing you more captivating stories and insights next week.

    Recent Episodes from Overheard at National Geographic

    Trapped in the icy waters of the Northwest Passage

    Trapped in the icy waters of the Northwest Passage
    For centuries, the Northwest Passage, the long-sought sea route connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans through northern Canada, was a holy grail of Arctic exploration. Even now, sailing through it isn’t guaranteed. Mark Synnott, a National Geographic Explorer, writer, and adventurer, attempted to sail his own boat through the Northwest Passage to retrace the doomed 1845 expedition of British explorer Sir John Franklin. None of the Franklin expedition’s 129 men made it home, but what exactly happened remains a mystery.   For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? Get the inside scoop on Mark’s Northwest Passage voyage and see gorgeous photos in the August issue of National Geographic. Watch Explorer: Lost in the Arctic, premiering August 24 on National Geographic and streaming the next day on Disney+ and Hulu. And to go even deeper, Mark will tell the full story in his book Into the Ice, coming fall 2024 from Dutton, an imprint of Penguin Publishing Group. Also explore: On paper, Sir John Franklin’s expedition seemed to lack for little. There were ironclad ships, steam engines, libraries totaling 2,900 books, and even animal companions—two dogs and a monkey. Here’s how it all went wrong. Explore another polar expedition gone wrong—Shackleton’s expedition to Antarctica aboard Endurance—in the Overheard episode “What the Ice Gets, the Ice Keeps.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Playback: Modern Lives, Ancient Caves

    Playback: Modern Lives, Ancient Caves
    There’s a lost continent waiting to be explored, and it’s right below our feet. We’ll dig into the deep human relationship to the underground—and why we understand it from an instinctive point of view, but not so much from a physical one. (Hint: We’re afraid of the dark.) In an episode originally published November 2021, National Geographic photographer Tamara Merino will take us subterranean in Utah, Australia, and Spain, where modern-day cave dwellers teach us how to escape the heat. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? Go below ground with National Geographic Explorer Tamara Merino to see how these communities have been living—quite comfortably—for a very long time. In Vietnam photojournalist and National Geographic Explorer Martin Edström created 360 images of the world’s largest cave, Son Doong. It’s so big that a forest grows inside of it. Ever zip-line to a remote island? Cartographers did, 30 miles west of San Francisco. What did they see when they mapped the hard-to-reach landform known as the Farallon Islands? Caves. China is home to some of the most intricate cave systems on the planet. These explorers used a laser scanner to capture never before seen images of undocumented caves. Also explore: South Dakota is famous among cavers for its web of cave mazes. Take a look at what they’ve found under the Black Hills. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Playback: This Indigenous Practice Fights Fire with Fire

    Playback: This Indigenous Practice Fights Fire with Fire
    For decades, the U.S. government evangelized fire suppression, most famously through Smokey Bear’s wildfire prevention campaign. But as climate change continues to exacerbate wildfire seasons and a growing body of scientific research supports using fire to fight fire, Indigenous groups in the Klamath Basin are reviving cultural burning practices that effectively controlled forest fires for centuries. In an episode originally published June 2022, National Geographic photographer Kiliii Yüyan introduces us to people bringing back this cultural practice and teaching the next generation how to use fire. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? If you want to hear more from Kiliii, you can also listen to a previous Overheard episode where he shares stories from the many weeks he spent camping on sea ice with Native Alaskan whale hunters. And if you’re dying to see his photography, check out his website to see portraits of Indigenous people, Arctic wildlife, and more. Also explore: To learn more about Margo Robbins and her efforts to revive cultural burns, check out our article on the subject. The practice of cultural burning is just one of many subjects that Kiliii and writer Charles Mann covered about the ways Indigenous groups are trying to reclaim sovereignty. Read that cover story here.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Playback: Rooting, from Into the Depths

    Playback: Rooting, from Into the Depths
    National Geographic Explorer Tara Roberts is inspired by the stories of the Clotilda, a ship that illegally arrived in Mobile, Alabama, in 1860, and of Africatown, created by those on the vessel—a community that still exists today. The archaeologists and divers leading the search for the Clotilda lay out the steps it took to find it. In this last episode of the Into the Depths podcast, which published in March 2022, Tara talks to the living descendants of those aboard the ship. She admires their enormous pride in knowing their ancestry, and wonders if she can trace her own ancestors back to a ship. She hires a genealogist and visits her family’s small hometown in North Carolina. The surprising results bring a sense of belonging to a place that she never could have imagined. Want more? Check out our Into the Depths hub to listen to all six episodes, learn more about Tara’s journey following Black scuba divers, find previous Nat Geo coverage on the search for slave shipwrecks, and read the March 2022 cover story. And download a tool kit for hosting an Into the Depths listening party to spark conversation and journey deeper into the material. Also explore:  Dive into more of National Geographic’s coverage of the Clotilda with articles looking at scientists’ ongoing archaeological work, the story that broke the discovery of the ship, and the documentary Clotilda: Last American Slave Ship. Meet more of the descendants of the Africans trafficked to the U.S. aboard the Clotilda, and find out what they’re doing to save Mobile’s Africatown community in the face of difficult economic and environmental challenges.  Read the story of Kossola, who later received the name Cudjo Lewis, in the book Barracoon: The Story of the Last “Black Cargo,” by author and anthropologist Zora Neale Hurston. Learn more about the life of abolitionist Harriet Jacobs, author of “Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl,” who escaped Edenton, N.C., through the Maritime Underground Railroad. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Playback: Ancient Orchestra

    Playback: Ancient Orchestra
    Sound on! From conch shells to bone flutes, humans have been making musical instruments for tens of thousands of years. What did prehistoric music sound like? In an episode originally published in November 2021, follow us on a journey to find the oldest musical instruments and combine them into one big orchestra of human history. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want More? A conch is more than just a musical instrument. A mollusk lives in that shell, and it’s a staple food in the Bahamas—so much so that overfishing is threatening their existence, but a few simple solutions may solve the problem. The oldest musical instrument was once thought to be a cave bear bone flute made by Neanderthals, but recent evidence suggests that the holes were made by animals rather than tools. More information about each instrument: The organization First Sounds found and brought to life the recordings of Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville. Head to their website to learn more about that project. Bettina Joy de Guzman travels the world, composing and performing music on ancient instruments. You can read more about her work on her website. More information about the bells of Bronze Age China can be found at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Asian Art. Check out a virtual version of their collection.  The conch shell sounds you heard were research recordings of the approximately 3,000-year-old Titanostrombus galeatus conch shell horn—excavated in 2018 by John Rick and a team from the UNESCO World Heritage archaeological site Chavín de Huántar, in Perú. You can read more about that research at the Chavín de Huántar Archaeological Acoustics project website. National Geographic Explorer Jahawi Bertolli is collecting the sounds of rock gongs from all over the African continent. Learn more about his rock project on Jahawi’s website. Flutist Anna Potengowski specializes in recreating the sounds of ancient flutes. You can hear more of her work on her Spotify page. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Playback: A Skeptic's Guide to Loving Bats

    Playback: A Skeptic's Guide to Loving Bats
    Blood-sucking villains. Spooky specters of the night. Our views of bats are often based more on fiction than fact. Enter National Geographic Explorer at Large Rodrigo Medellín, aka the Bat Man of Mexico. For decades, he’s waged a charm offensive to show the world how much we need bats, from the clothes we wear to a sip of tequila at the end of a long day. The COVID-19 pandemic caused even more harmful bat myths and gave Medellín the biggest challenge of his career. In this episode originally published in 2021, learn why the world must once again realize that bats may not be the hero everyone wants—but they’re the hero we need. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? See how Rodrigo uses a multi-pronged approach—involving field research, conservation, and tequila—to help protect bats.  In a Nat Geo short film, Rodrigo ventures into an ancient Mayan ruin to find two rare species of vampire bat. Curious about the connection between bats and Covid-19? Explore why it’s so tricky to trace the disease’s origins.   Also explore: Learn more about bats: They can be found nearly everywhere on Earth and range in size from lighter than a penny to a six-foot wingspan.    Why do bats get a bad rap? See how Spanish conquistadors and Dracula convinced us bats are more fright than friend.  Bat myths have real-world consequences. In Mauritius, a government campaign culled tens of thousands of endangered fruit bats.  For more bat info, follow Rodrigo on Instagram @batmanmedellin. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    How queer identity shapes Nat Geo Explorers

    How queer identity shapes Nat Geo Explorers
    Why would a scientist brave the stench of a car full of rotting meat on a 120-degree day? What can a unique whistling language teach us about humans’ connection to the natural world? And how does queer identity shape the research of National Geographic Explorers? In this episode celebrating Pride, we hand the mic to two Explorers: Christine Wilkinson, who studies hyenas and other large carnivores and created the TikTok series “Queer is Natural,” and Rüdiger Ortiz-Álvarez, whose soundscapes from the Canary Islands encourage us to slow down and listen to the world around us. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? Why do some people prefer LGBTQIA+ instead of LGBT? See how society’s understanding of diverse sexual identities and gender expressions has grown more inclusive—and so has the acronym used to describe them. Before the Nazis rose to power, a German institute cemented itself as gay liberation’s epicenter. Discover the great hunt for the world's first LGBTQ archive. Although a large group of LGBTQ people celebrating their sexual orientation in public had been unthinkable just a few years before, the first Pride parades began in 1970 as marches commemorating the 1969 Stonewall uprising. See more National Geographic coverage of Pride at natgeo.com/Pride.  Also explore: Learn more about spotted hyenas, which live in female-led clans of up to 80 individuals. Practice your whistling and head to La Gomera in the Canary Islands, home to the Silbo Gomero whistling language and Garajonay National Park. Find Christine Wilkinson’s “Queer is Natural” series on her TikTok, @scrappynaturalist. And follow along with Rüdiger Ortiz-Álvarez on his Instagram, @rudigerortiz. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    A Mexican Wolf Pup’s Journey into the Wild

    A Mexican Wolf Pup’s Journey into the Wild
    For centuries, Mexican gray wolves roamed the Southwest. But as cattle ranches spread, wolves became enemy number one, and by the 1970s the subspecies was nearly extinct. But after the Endangered Species Act was passed, the U.S. embarked on an ambitious plan to save the iconic predators. We’ll meet the Texas trapper who switched from killing wolves to catching them to breed. And we’ll follow a team of biologists into the Gila Wilderness to introduce captive-born wolf pups into the wild. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? Check out Peter Gwin's feature article on the Gila wilderness. Thinking of visiting the Gila yourself? We've put together a travel guide for you. Also Explore In 2021, a Mexican wolf named Mr. Goodbar crossed the border from Mexico into the United States, raising questions about how the border wall will affect animal migration. The Gila wilderness is also famous for one of the only venomous lizards in the world, the Gila monster. But climate change and human activity is threatening this charismatic reptile. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Playback: Deep Inside the First Wilderness

    Playback: Deep Inside the First Wilderness
    On assignment in the canyons of the Gila Wilderness, Nat Geo photographer Katie Orlinsky has a fireside chat with Overheard host Peter Gwin about telling stories through pictures. She chronicles how she found her way—from growing up in New York City to covering workers' rights in rural Mexico to the world’s most grueling dogsled race in Alaska.  For more information on this episode, visit nationalgeographic.com/overheard. Want more? To see some of Katie's photos from the Gila, take a look at Peter Gwin's article How to visit the Gila Wilderness. In her work on the Yukon Quest sled dog race, you can see what it looks like to cross 1,000 miles of Alaska on dog power. On Katie’s personal website, you can see more images, including from her time in Juárez. Also explore: And magazine subscribers can see Katie’s photos in our recent story about thawing permafrost. Sometimes that thaw creates pockets of methane under frozen lakes that scientists test by setting on fire. That story was also featured in our podcast episode about how beavers are changing the Arctic. If you like what you hear and want to support more content like this, please consider a National Geographic subscription. Go to natgeo.com/exploremore to subscribe today.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    She Sails the Seas Without Maps or Compasses

    She Sails the Seas Without Maps or Compasses
    For nearly 50 years, a group of Hawaiians have been sailing on traditional voyaging canoes using the methods that early Polynesian explorers relied on to navigate the Pacific Ocean—without maps and modern instruments, and relying on the stars, ocean waves, birds, and other natural elements to guide them. We meet National Geographic Explorer Lehua Kamalu, the first woman to captain a long-distance voyage on Hōkūleʻa, a double-hulled Polynesian canoe that was built in Hawaii in the 1970s. She describes what it’s like to navigate in incredibly rough waters, what it means to keep Polynesian navigation alive in the 21st century, and about her next big adventure: a four-year circumnavigation of the Pacific Ocean. For more information on this episode, visit natgeo.com/overheard. Want more? Learn about the Polynesian Voyaging Society and their upcoming voyage, Moananuiākea, a 47-month circumnavigation of the Pacific.  Read about Hōkūleʻa’s 2022 journey to Tahiti, which involved traveling 3,000 miles over three weeks.  Also explore:  A small number of people speak ‘ōlelo, Hawaii’s native language, which teetered on extinction during the mid-20th century. Learn about how some young Hawaiians are using TikTok and Instagram to make the language more accessible.  Hear Nat Geo Explorer Keolu Fox on a previous Overheard episode share how he’s working with Polynesian and Indigenous communities to study how their genomes have been shaped by history and colonialism, and how that data can help them reclaim land and improve health outcomes for their communities.  Visit National Geographic for more stories throughout Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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