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    Why Goldman Sachs and Apple Weren't Happily Ever After

    enDecember 06, 2023

    Podcast Summary

    • Apple's push for control ends partnership with Goldman Sachs on Apple CardApple's goal to control marketing and branding of Apple Card led to the end of partnership with Goldman Sachs, highlighting the importance of clear communication and alignment in business relationships.

      Apple's introduction of the Apple Card in 2019 was a significant move for both the tech giant and its banking partner, Goldman Sachs. Apple aimed to deepen its presence in the payment space and make Apple Pay more central to consumers' payment habits, ultimately bringing in more revenue through transaction fees. However, the partnership between Apple and Goldman Sachs was short-lived, with Apple reportedly seeking a more prominent role in the card's marketing and branding. This desire for control led to the eventual end of their partnership, illustrating the challenges of collaboration and the importance of clear communication and alignment of goals in business relationships.

    • Goldman Sachs partners with Apple to enter consumer businessGoldman Sachs sought to diversify revenue by partnering with Apple, challenging traditional credit card models, and attracting top partners to offer different terms.

      Goldman Sachs saw an opportunity to diversify its revenue stream by entering the consumer business through a partnership with Apple, despite being a historically successful investment bank. Goldman was described as a demanding partner due to its size and influence, but this didn't deter them from challenging the traditional credit card model. They wanted to enable different terms on credit cards and attract great partners, becoming a formidable competitor to incumbents. Goldman didn't have a credit card business and wasn't concerned about Apple entering the market, as they saw it as an opportunity to help Apple break the traditional system. The Apple Card, with its sleek design and integration into Apple's Wallet app, was a hit with consumers and offered 2% cash back on Apple Pay transactions. Goldman saw the potential in consumer revenue to offset the volatility of investment banking and trading.

    • Concerns over unfavorable deal terms in Apple's partnership with Goldman SachsBusiness partnerships can face challenges from unfavorable terms, strained resources, and logistical issues. Careful consideration and open communication are crucial for successful collaborations.

      Partnerships, even those between financial giants like Goldman Sachs and tech companies like Apple, can come with significant challenges. During the bidding process for Apple's credit card, Goldman's sources expressed concerns about the deal's economics, which they believed were unfavorable. Initially, these concerns were dismissed, but as time passed, it became clear that those sources may have been right. Apple's demands, such as assuming credit risk and handling loan losses, put a strain on Goldman. Additionally, Apple's desire for widespread approval and quick customer service caused logistical issues. This partnership illustrates the importance of carefully considering the terms of business relationships and the potential implications of each party's demands.

    • Goldman Sachs' Consumer Division StrugglesGoldman Sachs faced significant challenges in its consumer division, including customer service issues, regulatory scrutiny, and losses, leading the company to consider a potential breakup.

      Goldman Sachs' foray into the consumer sector through its partnership with Apple and other initiatives did not yield the desired returns and instead brought about significant challenges. The Apple credit card launch led to a flood of customer service issues and regulatory scrutiny, causing concerns among executives about the direction of the consumer division. Despite these challenges, Goldman continued to expand, investing in high-interest savings accounts, personal loans, and the acquisition of GreenSky. However, these moves raised internal concerns and the company ultimately decided to review its consumer division. The review concluded that the division was not profitable and was losing billions of dollars, leading Goldman to consider a potential breakup. The turmoil in the consumer division, coupled with regulatory issues and internal angst, led Goldman to explore the possibility of offloading its Apple credit card partnership to American Express.

    • Apple ends partnership with Goldman Sachs in consumer businessApple's unexpected termination of partnership with Goldman Sachs in consumer business was due to Goldman's overzealous expansion and underestimation of regulatory challenges.

      Apple, feeling the power shift in its partnership with Goldman Sachs, decided to end their consumer business relationship, leaving Goldman's time in the consumer lending space in jeopardy. Goldman, eager to expand into this area, moved too quickly and underestimated the regulatory challenges, ultimately leading to this tumultuous end. The consumer division at Goldman, particularly those working on credit cards, have been experiencing a mass exodus as Apple was the crown jewel of their consumer business. This breakup, which Apple initiated, was not inevitable but rather a result of Goldman's aggressive expansion strategy and underestimation of the regulatory complexities.

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    Show Notes:


    Chapters:


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    Links:


    WSJ: Goldman Sachs wants to bail on Apple Card partnership after $1B loss, in talks with Amex


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    Web Bixby has been in the insurance business for 40 years and has been an Apple user for longer than that.You can catch up with him on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.


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    David Ginsburg is the host of the weekly podcast In Touch With iOS where he discusses all things iOS, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch, and related technologies. He is an IT professional supporting Mac, iOS and Windows users. Visit his YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/daveg65 and find and follow him on Twitter @daveg65 and on Mastodon at @daveg65@mastodon.cloud


    Ben Roethig has been in the Apple Ecosystem since the System 7 Days. He is the a former Associate Editor with Geek Beat, Co-Founder of The Tech Hangout and Deconstruct and currently shares his thoughts on RoethigTech. Contact him on  Twitter and Mastodon.


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        Become a MacVoices Patron on Patreon
        http://patreon.com/macvoices


        Enjoy this episode? Make a one-time donation with PayPal


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        Web:
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        http://www.twitter.com/chuckjoiner
        http://www.twitter.com/macvoices


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    Subscribe:


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        Audio: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesrss
        Video: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesvideorss

    MacVoices #23306: MacVoices Live - NameDrop Questions, Google Drive Losses (2)

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    David Ginsburg is the host of the weekly podcast In Touch With iOS where he discusses all things iOS, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch, and related technologies. He is an IT professional supporting Mac, iOS and Windows users. Visit his YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/daveg65 and find and follow him on Twitter @daveg65 and on Mastodon at @daveg65@mastodon.cloud

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    Connect:

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    00:02:36 Unique ID and Apple's Partnership with MasterCard 00:04:17 Surprising Revelation: Retailers Don't Get Bank Card Numbers 00:04:22 Apple Pay Collaboration with Member Banks 00:05:46 Convenient Apple Cash for Transactions 00:06:43 Apple Card vs. Apple Pay: Is it worth it? 00:08:53 Apple's potential fallout with Goldman Sachs 00:11:50 Speculation on the source of the Apple-Goldman Sachs story 00:18:21 Misinformation about a non-security issue 00:20:10 David's mention on MECOS for debunking disinformation 00:20:28 Concerns about legislative bodies not understanding technology 00:22:07 Varying responses from police departments on the issue 00:24:07 Safeguards and confirmation for sharing features 00:25:41 Different Solutions for the Problem 00:26:39 Protecting Your Personal Data with Incogni 00:28:39 Google Drive Users Reporting Disappearing Files 00:32:39 Apple Addresses Annoying Zoom Link Prompt 00:35:32 Apple Card: Tim Cook's Initial Thoughts and User Experience Forward 00:38:36 Wrapping up: Apple Maps vs. Waze

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    Tim Cook renonce à 40% de son salaire

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    The MacVoices Live! panel took on breaking news on why Apple decided to pull the plug on the Apple Card relationship with Goldman Sachs, who would be a likely successor, and what the implications are for consumers. Chuck JoinerDavid GinsburgBrian Flanigan-Arthurs, Web BixbyBen RoethigEric BoldenMark Fuccio, and Jim Rea weigh in. (Part 1)

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    Show Notes:

    Chapters:

    0:00:00 Apple and Goldman Sachs part ways
    0:06:00 Remembering Charlie Munger
    0:06:58 Reflecting on a Remarkable Life
    0:09:07 Windows vs. Mac Bug Exorcism
    0:11:26 Goldman's dissatisfaction and Apple's initiative in finding new partner
    0:12:43 Goldman Sachs losing money due to loan losses
    0:14:20 Uncertainty about the fate of Apple savings account
    0:22:01 Credit Rating and Charges on Apple Card
    0:23:24 Apple's Shift towards Lower-priced iPhone and iPad Market
    0:23:42 Apple User Base Shifts with iPhone's Popularity
    0:25:34 Apple Demographics and Car Companies' Preferences
    0:29:33 Apple Pay and Card Infrastructure
    0:31:20 Implications of Apple's demands and potential future of Apple Card

    Links:

    Apple ending relationship with Goldman Sachs, fate of Apple Card unclear 
    https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/28/apple-ending-relationship-with-goldman-sachs-fate-of-apple-card-unclear/

    Guests:

    Web Bixby has been in the insurance business for 40 years and has been an Apple user for longer than that.You can catch up with him on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

    Eric Bolden is into macOS, plants, sci-fi, food, and is a rural internet supporter. You can connect with him on Twitterby email at embolden@mac.com, on Mastodon at @eabolden@techhub.social, and on his blog, Trending At Work.

    Brian Flanigan-Arthurs is an educator with a passion for providing results-driven, innovative learning strategies for all students, but particularly those who are at-risk. He is also a tech enthusiast who has a particular affinity for Apple since he first used the Apple IIGS as a student. You can contact Brian on twitter as @brian8944. He also recently opened a Mastodon account at @brian8944@mastodon.cloud.

    Mark Fuccio is actively involved in high tech startup companies, both as a principle at piqsure.com, or as a marketing advisor through his consulting practice Tactics Sells High Tech, Inc. Mark was a proud investor in Microsoft from the mid-1990's selling in mid 2000, and hopes one day that MSFT will be again an attractive investment. You can contact Mark through Twitter, LinkedIn, or on Mastodon.

    David Ginsburg is the host of the weekly podcast In Touch With iOS where he discusses all things iOS, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch, and related technologies. He is an IT professional supporting Mac, iOS and Windows users. Visit his YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/daveg65 and find and follow him on Twitter @daveg65 and on Mastodon at @daveg65@mastodon.cloud

    Jim Rea built his own computer from scratch in 1975, started programming in 1977, and has been an independent Mac developer continuously since 1984. He is the founder of ProVUE Development, and the author of Panorama X, ProVUE's ultra fast RAM based database software for the macOS platform. He’s been a speaker at MacTech, MacWorld Expo and other industry conferences. Follow Jim at provue.com and via @provuejim@techhub.social on Mastodon.

    Ben Roethig has been in the Apple Ecosystem since the System 7 Days. He is the a former Associate Editor with Geek Beat, Co-Founder of The Tech Hangout and Deconstruct and currently shares his thoughts on RoethigTech. Contact him on  Twitter and Mastodon.

    Support:

         Become a MacVoices Patron on Patreon
         http://patreon.com/macvoices

         Enjoy this episode? Make a one-time donation with PayPal

    Connect:

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    Subscribe:

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    00:00:00 Apple and Goldman Sachs part ways 00:06:00 Remembering Charlie Munger 00:06:58 Reflecting on a Remarkable Life 00:07:48 Introductions and Last Guest Arrives 00:09:06 Windows vs. Mac Bug Exorcism 00:11:26 Goldman's dissatisfaction and Apple's initiative in finding new partner 00:12:42 Goldman Sachs losing money due to loan losses 00:14:19 Uncertainty about the fate of Apple savings account 00:22:00 Credit Rating and Charges on Apple Card 00:23:24 Apple's Shift towards Lower-priced iPhone and iPad Market 00:23:41 Apple User Base Shifts with iPhone's Popularity 00:25:34 Apple Demographics and Car Companies' Preferences 00:29:33 Apple Pay and Card Infrastructure 00:31:20 Implications of Apple's demands and potential future of Apple Card

    MacVoices #23282: MacVoices Live! - The Apple Pencil Product Line; Goldman Sachs Isn't Happy (2)

    MacVoices #23282: MacVoices Live! - The Apple Pencil Product Line; Goldman Sachs Isn't Happy (2)

    Our discussion of the new Apple USB-C Pencil continues with David GinsburgJeff GametBrian Flanigan-ArthursJim ReaBen RoethigEric BoldenMark FuccioKelly Guimont, and Brittany Smith The panel delves into the decision to sacrifice inductive charging for a lower price on the latest model and advise on which version to purchase based on individual needs. The panel also touches on confusion surrounding the naming of different Apple Pencil versions before starting to explore Goldman Sachs' reported dissatisfaction with the Apple Card deal and speculate on their decision-making. (Part 2) 

    MacVoices Slack

    This edition of MacVoices is supported by The MacVoices Slack. Available all Patrons of MacVoices. Sign up at Patreon.com/macvoices.

    Show Notes:

    Chapters:

    0:00:23 Selecting the Right Apple Pencil Model
    0:04:11 Exploring the benefits of the Apple Pencil
    0:08:50 Considerations when deciding between Apple Pencil models
    0:13:32 Apple Pencil: A Misunderstood Product
    0:15:11 The affordable iPad: A great option for basic needs
    0:16:02 Apple's decision to release new product with unique feature set
    0:17:40 Delayed release of new iPads due to logistical challenges
    0:19:26 Jim's New Era of Using the Apple Pencil
    0:19:54 Goldman Sachs wants out of the Apple card deal
    0:22:29 Goldman Sachs spending $350 per card for customer acquisition
    0:28:28 Responsible Credit Card Usage with Apple Card
    0:30:33 Limited Profitability for Goldman Sachs with Apple Card
    0:31:40 Apple's Motive for Playing Devil's Advocate
    0:31:46 Apple's Data Collection for Intelligence

    Links:

    Apple Pencil (USB-C) ​​​​​​
    https://amzn.to/3Szzlfx

    Apple Pencil (2nd Generation)
    https://amzn.to/474OqtW

    Apple Pencil (1st Generation)
    https://amzn.to/3MB1XRN

    Stylus Pen for iPad 9th&10th Generation-2X Fast Charge Active Pencil Compatible
    https://amzn.to/40wEXsG

    Stylus Pen for iPad(2022-2018) with Palm Rejection, FOJOJO Active Pencil Compatible
    https://amzn.to/47q9ryV

    Charging Case Compatible with Apple Pencil 2nd Generation Only, Magnetic Charging Stand for Ipad Pen 2nd Gen v
    https://amzn.to/3FPxnjz

    Goldman Sachs regrets Apple Card, and is trying to escape the deal
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/10/16/goldman-sachs-regrets-apple-card-and-is-trying-to-escape-the-deal

    How the Apple-Goldman Sachs relationship became an unhappy marriage
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/07/25/how-the-apple-goldman-sachs-relationship-became-an-unhappy-marriage

    How the Partnership Between Apple and Goldman Sachs Soured
    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinformation.com%2Farticles%2Fhow-the-partnership-between-apple-and-goldman-soured

     

    Guests:

    Eric Bolden is into macOS, plants, sci-fi, food, and is a rural internet supporter. You can connect with him on Twitterby email at embolden@mac.com, on Mastodon at @eabolden@techhub.social, and on his blog, Trending At Work.

    Brian Flanigan-Arthurs is an educator with a passion for providing results-driven, innovative learning strategies for all students, but particularly those who are at-risk. He is also a tech enthusiast who has a particular affinity for Apple since he first used the Apple IIGS as a student. You can contact Brian on twitter as @brian8944. He also recently opened a Mastodon account at @brian8944@mastodon.cloud.

    Mark Fuccio is actively involved in high tech startup companies, both as a principle at piqsure.com, or as a marketing advisor through his consulting practice Tactics Sells High Tech, Inc. Mark was a proud investor in Microsoft from the mid-1990's selling in mid 2000, and hopes one day that MSFT will be again an attractive investment. You can contact Mark through Twitter, LinkedIn, or on Mastodon.

    Jeff Gamet is a technology blogger, podcaster, author, and public speaker. Previously, he was The Mac Observer’s Managing Editor, and the TextExpander Evangelist for Smile. He has presented at Macworld Expo, RSA Conference, several WordCamp events, along with many other conferences. You can find him on several podcasts such as The Mac Show, The Big Show, MacVoices, Mac OS Ken, This Week in iOS, and more. Jeff is easy to find on social media as @jgamet on Twitter and Instagram, jeffgamet on LinkedIn., @jgamet@mastodon.social on Mastodon, and on his YouTube Channel at YouTube.com/jgamet.

    David Ginsburg is the host of the weekly podcast In Touch With iOS where he discusses all things iOS, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch, and related technologies. He is an IT professional supporting Mac, iOS and Windows users. Visit his YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/daveg65 and find and follow him on Twitter @daveg65 and on Mastodon at @daveg65@mastodon.cloud

    Kelly Guimont is a podcaster and friend of the Rebel Alliance. You can also hear her on The Aftershow with Mike Rose, and she still has more to say which she saves for Twitter and Mastodon

    Jim Rea built his own computer from scratch in 1975, started programming in 1977, and has been an independent Mac developer continuously since 1984. He is the founder of ProVUE Development, and the author of Panorama X, ProVUE's ultra fast RAM based database software for the macOS platform. He’s been a speaker at MacTech, MacWorld Expo and other industry conferences. Follow Jim at provue.com and via @provuejim@techhub.social on Mastodon.

    Ben Roethig has been in the Apple Ecosystem since the System 7 Days. He is the a former Associate Editor with Geek Beat, Co-Founder of The Tech Hangout and Deconstruct and currently shares his thoughts on RoethigTech. Contact him on  Twitter and Mastodon

    Brittany Smith is a trained cognitive neuroscientist who provides ADD/ADHD, technology, and productivity coaching through her business, Devise and Conquer, along with companion video courses for folks with ADHD. She’s also the cofounder of The ADHD Guild, a community for nerdy folks with ADHD. She, herself, is a self-designated “well-rounded geek”. She can be found on Twitter as @addliberator, on Mastodon as @addliberator@pdx.social, and on YouTube with tech tips.

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    00:00:22 Selecting the Right Apple Pencil Model 00:04:11 Exploring the benefits of the Apple Pencil 00:08:49 Considerations when deciding between Apple Pencil models 00:13:32 Apple Pencil: A Misunderstood Product 00:15:11 The affordable iPad: A great option for basic needs 00:16:02 Apple's decision to release new product with unique feature set 00:17:39 Delayed release of new iPads due to logistical challenges 00:19:54 Goldman Sachs wants out of the Apple card deal 00:22:28 Goldman Sachs spending $350 per card for customer acquisition 00:28:27 Responsible Credit Card Usage with Apple Card 00:30:32 Limited Profitability for Goldman Sachs with Apple Card 00:31:40 Apple's Motive for Playing Devil's Advocate 00:31:46 Apple's Data Collection for Intelligence