Episode Keywords:
Indigenous pedagogy, teachers asking questions, Native American voices, amplify Native voices, history, importance of multiple perspectives, transcontinental railroad lesson plans, Native American historical timelines, answering questions, cultural appropriation, reflective listening, asking with genuine intent, honoring the no, listening, listening to amplify Native voices
Episode Resources:
Amplify Native Voices Online Professional Development Course
Artful Teaching Podcast Episode 19
Decision-Based Model for Selecting Appropriate Native American Content for the Classroom
Native American Children’s Books
Why a Hula Hoop is Different than a Native American Hoop
Native American Round Dance
Tips for Teaching Native American Art Projects Without Cultural Appropriation
Real and Ideal: A Closer Look at Westward Expansion (Transcontinental Railroad) lesson plan
Bear River Massacre Commemoration
Women’s History Month: Mae Timbimboo Parry
Bring a Native Artist to Your Classroom
Join our Native American Curriculum Initiative mailing list!
Native American Curriculum Initiative Website
www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci
Native American Lesson Plans
www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons
About the BYU ARTS Partnership
https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66
Episode Notes:
Heather Francis: Today I am introducing our content that was previously recorded at the end of 2022, when we filmed Brenda Beyal and some of our NACI team at a recording studio to capture some of the knowledge, experiences, and stories that we have to share with teachers, educators, and interested community members. We are asking questions about the Native American Curriculum Initiative and the principles and practices that have led our work up to this point. In today’s episode, Brenda answers questions about the importance of teachers asking questions with a genuine intent to understand. Then, after asking questions, she describes the importance of being prepared to listen attentively. Asking questions with genuine intent and listening attentively is one of the seven guiding principles that guide our work in the Native American Curriculum Initiative. You can listen to Episode 19, or check out the landing page on our website for NACI to learn more about our guiding principles.
This specific guiding principle is really important to us as we work with Native partners and make sure that we're creating educational resources that not only amplify their voices and bring increased representation to the classroom, but also gain approval by their official voices and tribal councils. Listening attentively is really important. That's why we asked Brenda to explain some of her thoughts on this principle. In this podcast, Brenda invites Stephanie West to discuss this topic. Stephanie West is an instructional designer studying instructional psychology and technology at Brigham Young University. She's on our NACI team, and she and I designed the online PD course. Another podcast episode focuses just on the PD course. Since she has been doing a lot of the grading in the online course, she knows a lot of the questions that teachers are asking, like “Why is it important to ask questions with genuine intent and to listen attentively?”
Why is it important to ask questions with genuine intent and to listen attentively?
Brenda Beyal: One of our guiding principles that has been so important for us as we've done our work with NACI is the idea of asking questions and listening attentively. When a teacher asks me a question, I don't ever think a question is too small or insignificant, especially when it comes to culture. Because when a teacher asks a question, it makes me feel like this teacher really wants to know more, and possibly wants some guidance. That's how I feel when a teacher asks me a question. I want to ask you, Stephanie, since you are the creator of the PD course, what kind of questions do you get from teachers who are taking the PD course?
Stephanie West: That's a great question. I think that a lot of teachers really want to know what's appropriate. I think that's the biggest question that we get: “What can I teach? What can I not teach?” Those are the biggest questions. Other questions that they might ask are: “How can I teach this? And do it in a respectful way?” I think those are probably the most frequent questions we get.
Brenda Beyal: Sometimes we've gotten questions about very specific parts of the curriculum, whether it's a dance or a song, or or even a book. Teachers want to know: “Is there cultural appropriation with this project I'm going to do or with this story?” Is that what you have found also?
Stephanie West: Absolutely. I think those questions that you're talking about are more specific questions, but they still fall under that same umbrella of the more general question: “What is appropriate? What is respectful? Am I appropriating?
Brenda Beyal: Yes. As we were creating the timelines, we wanted to make sure that we were truly amplifying the Native voice. Can you tell me how the guiding principle of listening attentively and asking questions has helped us produce a wonderful timeline for each of the Native tribes?
Stephanie West: I think that listening (first asking), but then the listening part is really, really key to that. I think that Native individuals have not felt heard for so many years, or if they have been heard, they have been misheard. Listening—it's not just asking the questions, but it's also the listening—and creating the timelines has been an incredible experience. I feel like I have learned so much. When I met with some of the Native groups, it was slightly uncomfortable at first. Their discomfort likely came from a place of distrust of us, at the beginning. It took time for us to establish any kind of relationship. Our listening was key to that relationship because at first they didn't trust us to actually listen. Going back to another principle, some Native groups didn't trust us to honor their ‘no’ if the answer was a ‘no’ for some of the things that we asked about. What's been really interesting for me is that we have a large amount of silence in our conversations: we'll ask a question, and then we don't get a response for a while. We don't get a ‘yes,’ or a ‘no,’ or any specific answer. Then, through a very indigenous way of teaching, they'll tell us a story. Instead of answering directly, they tell us a story. Through that story, we come to understand the answer to the question that we asked.
Brenda Beyal: Using reflective listening and making sure that we're telling the story, or what they're telling us, in an authentic manner—not inserting ourselves into the story, and not allowing our way of viewing life to skew what they're saying.
Stephanie West: There are lots of reflective questions that go into that. Once they share a story, or share a perspective, then we reflectively question to make sure that we've clearly situated the information that we're creating in the timelines. It's a very reflective process. We continue to go over and over one particular piece, one event in the timeline, until we know that it is exactly worded the way that this native group would like it worded.
Brenda Beyal: It's interesting that we started our NACI project with the question, “What would you like the children of Utah to know about your cultural ways, your history, your tribe?” We use reflective listening to help develop all of these resources that we are developing now. Questions are always invited and welcomed. Questions are the foundations of our projects.
Stephanie West: I think one piece of advice that I would give is that no question is offensive if it's truly, sincerely asked with the intent of amplifying a Native voice and really coming to a sense of understanding. Sometimes as teachers or individuals, we're afraid to ask a question. But if we are truly sincere, I think that the individual that we're talking with understands that.
Brenda Beyal: There are some specific questions that were asked such as, “Can I do this dance without having a Native American in the classroom? Or it might be, “I've always done this art project, and now that I've taken the course I'm wondering if this is an appropriate art project. I feel like it might be verging on cultural appropriation.” There might be another question, something simple, like, “Why do you call traditional dress regalia? Why don't you call it a costume?” There have been questions such as, “Do you call yourself a Native American or American Indian? Or, “What is the best term to use?” All of those questions vary, and we welcome them. If you have questions that you would like to have answered, please email us. Hopefully, we can give you some answers. If not, we will definitely send you to people or organizations that can help you. [See Episode Resources for a list of blog posts that provide helpful answers to some of these questions.]
Heather Francis: In this next clip, Brenda shares the importance of looking at history from multiple perspectives. She talks about how she believes that history is often told from one perspective and that there's danger in “the single story.” She describes why multiple perspectives are important to her and how working on some of our general Native American lesson plans, like the one on the transcontinental railroad are really important because they offer multiple perspectives on events in history and other events that impacted the lives of those living here in the state of Utah or the territory of Utah. Whether you're teaching Utah social studies or not, understanding history from multiple perspectives, and including Native perspectives on history, is really important.
Brenda Beyal: Often I feel like history is taught from one perspective, and there is a danger in just that one perspective or in that single story, because you lose the complexity of that historical time. When we take a look at other ways of seeing things, the world opens up for us and for students. There are times that parts of history are taught to children where we gloss over struggles and hardships in history. When we do that, we dismiss someone else's story. We all have a story, we all have a culture, we all have a way of looking at that history. It's important to acknowledge and recognize that through the making of America, there have been many struggles. So often in our state, we're willing to talk about how the pioneers crossed, and came to the valley of Salt Lake. We're willing to share the hardships that they went through: how people were left behind, how people died, and how the weather and the elements really were hard on the people that crossed the plains.
But yet, we are hesitant to teach about the Bear River Massacre, or the Swamp Cedars Massacres. I feel like multiple perspectives on the different things that have happened are important. The transcontinental railroad is a perfect example. We see it as progress, you know, connecting the east with the west. But there's a part of that history where there was a decline in bison herds. Those bison herds were essential to Native American livelihood. When the government decided that the bison needed to be decimated, they were taking away someone else's livelihood and way of living. Sometimes, we don't hear about that. I feel like if we're going to not repeat history, we need to teach the history that we shouldn't repeat. Multiple perspectives open our eyes, help us to empathize, and help us realize that we are all human; we all have struggles, and we are all a part of creating a future that is good for everyone.
Future Episodes for Series 4: Utah Indian Song and Making Friends with Native Americans
Heather Francis: This concludes the first three episodes of this Native American series where we've had Brenda answering our questions. The next two episodes in this series are Brenda answering questions that teachers submitted in the fall of 2022. We got together as an NACI team to dialogue and have a conversation about some of these questions that teachers had. One of the questions she'll be answering is about the "Utah Indians" song that is part of a fourth-grade musical program that many schools have used for decades. In the 90’s, I remember being a child who participated in this program. We talk about that song and discussed possible alternatives to that song. We also explore a question about how to build relationships and become friends with Native Americans in your community, whether they're students in your classroom, parents, community members, or Native artists that you want to bring to your classroom.
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Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade level, art form or subject area at www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons.
