digital ministry

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SUMMARY In this episode, Nick walks through the step-by-step and page by page menu options for posting a TikTok. Whether you're versed in this or this is your first time opening the app, this guide will take you from start to finish! And Nick shares some tips on what and how to share to other social media platforms. This also comes with a complete digital downloadable guide: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Or check out the complete YouTube Video on it: https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg As always, every episode available with FREE transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz And hang with Nick on TikTok at: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick FREE Checklist: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/free-social-media-checklist TIMECODES TIMECODES 00:00-00:53 – Intro 00:53-03:11 - Why TikTok, Reels and Short Form Video? 03:11-03:47- - Logging Into TikTok for the First Time 03:47-05:56 - Video Menu Options 05:56-07:03 - Profile Menu Options 07:03-12:07 - Creating a Video 12:07-17:21 - Editing the Video 17:21-19:34 - Time to Post it! 19:34-20:46 - Make sure you do this ONE THING before posting to other platforms 20:46- - Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): So have I already ruined my TikTok account? Here's a guide on how to post TikTok from start to finish. Hey everyone, my name is Nick Clason. I am the host of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and this is a little special YouTube slash podcast episode I'm excited to bring to you on the framework for posting a TikTok in 2023. Now, there's a lot of things out there about like SEO and keywords and strategies and tips and hacks, and in fact, I actually have a checklist that I have pre created for all social media, just a basic like, uh, have you done this? Have you done that for posting to social media at your church? You can get the description or you can get the link for that in the description, the video down below, uh, or in the show notes, hybrid ministry.xyz. But why TikTok? Like why of all the platforms that we have, why TikTok? Nick Clason (01:01): And here's why. Every platform right now, Facebook, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, they are all going after this short form video content. It's like lightning in a bottle. It's so easy to go viral. Um, and when I say easy, it's like you post the dumbest thing and it goes viral, but then you spend a lot of time and effort and energy on something that you think is amazing and it gets like 14 views. And so the reality is it's this very finicky, very like, hard to like land what is going to go viral, but when you see other social medias copying another social platform's kind of bread and butter, it's worth noting and it's worth, uh, going all in on. And so when every single major social platform is copying TikTok in their, uh, their, their for you sort of algorithm, you need to make that a priority. Nick Clason (02:00): It's, I would liken it to win Instagram stole stories from Snapchat, and now TikTok is actually stealing B reels, uh, post, now they call it the now feature in TikTok. So, uh, if you've never logged into TikTok, uh, or you have, and you know, you should, you've heard me talk about the importance of short form video, but you, you open it and it's overwhelming. You don't know what to do or you think you know what to do, but then you get kind of turned around editing videos or whatever and whatnot. This is meant to be a, uh, a thorough guide to every feature available in TikTok. Now, some caveats, I've really only been using TikTok for about three to six months now. Um, I too is just as much of a novice when I opened it. They're constantly evolving and changing, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure if I know all the features. I tried to comb through each and every feature as I was in preparation for this video, but there are several I haven't even used. And so Nick Clason (02:59): I just wanna be clear with that. Like, uh, I'm still at a very basic level, and so if, if I can do it, what we're doing in our church, you too can, can get up some very basic sort of content. So when you log into TikTok for the very first time, a video is probably going to start blaring at you at full volume. Okay? That can be a little bit disconcerting and throw you off. You're a rocker because most other platforms keep videos muted. TikTok for whatever reason is the opposite, so turn your volume all the way down, or if you just tap the screen, the video, whatever video they play, um, it'll pause it. Now, uh, if you're getting on TikTok for the first time and they're feeding you things that you don't wanna see, they're not, you're not interested in, hold that video down and just click, not interested. Nick Clason (03:43): Do that a few times and you're gonna teach the algorithm what you want to see. So when you, uh, are sitting there looking at a video, video that TikTok fed to you, you have, uh, several different video menu options. And so I want to, uh, run through what those are. The first one is you can, on the right hand side of your screen, you can follow the creator. Uh, that little plus sign right there will give you a, uh, follow, um, or not follow kind of option. Now, if you look at the very, very top of your screen, you're going to be looking at either following or for you, you're either in your following algorithm, all the people that you're following, or you're in your for U algorithm. TikTok will almost naturally bring you to the for U algorithm. So just be aware of that. Nick Clason (04:34): Even when you click follow the people, the videos that you're seeing may not be coming from followers. That's, again, that's one of the things that makes this algorithm unique. Um, you can, like the video, that's the heart. You can comment on it, you can save it. That's a little save, uh, little bookmark looking icon there. You can share it. That's the arrow out. You can send it to people within the TikTok app. You can, you can download the video and save it, or you can copy a link and send it. Uh, and then the bottom, uh, icon there, a little round one kinda looks like a, a record turning. That's the sound, that's the audio that is being used. Could be like an original audio from the creator, or it could be like a sound or a trend or something like that. All of that is to you. Nick Clason (05:15): On the right hand side of the screen at the bottom, you have five menu options. You have your home button and the subcategories for that, like I said, up at the top of the following. And the four you, then you have the, now that's TikTok, s b real copycat. It's almost identical to what Be Real is doing. Uh, you got the plus button there, then very dead center, that's your create button, okay? Then next you have your little envelope, that's your inbox. And for there you get your notifications, dms, likes, follows, et cetera. That's all the things that you, uh, when people interact with your content or your videos. And then finally, the last thing on the very right hand bottom corner, uh, is your profile. That's where you have your videos. Um, once you click on that, you'll see, uh, another kind of menu across the top. Nick Clason (06:02): Uh, the left most option is your videos, everything that you've posted kind of on your grid. The next one are your private videos. The next one are your saved videos. Remember that bookmark icon. And personally, I like to use that as a way to save ideas. So if I'm going through TikTok and there's a sound or an idea that I think is fun or interesting that I can use later, I'll save it. That's then where I'll find it. And what I'll personally do is I'll save that on my personal account, and then I will share that video to my ministry account. Then I will switch accounts, log over into my ministry account, go into my dms, and get that video from myself, and then I'll use that, um, either that sound or that idea or that trend or whatever I need from that video, maybe a filter, whatever that I'll use to them post. Nick Clason (06:46): Um, moving on on that menu, you got your liked videos. And then finally, um, there at the top, you can edit your profile, your link, all the other necessary and pertinent information there. Okay. Now, how do you, that's just simply viewing a video and kind of navigating through your basic menu items. So how do you then create a video? So the way to create a video is on your home screen. You can tap that plus button, all right? And once you tap that plus button, you're given several options. All right? At the very, very top center, uh, there's the option to add sound. You can add a sound that way by clicking it and searching for a sound. Or like I said, when you see that record player on a video, you can click on that. Um, and once you're, once you click on that, there will be a, it'll pull up all the videos, uh, that have used that sound. Nick Clason (07:37): You can click use this sound option. That is personally, I think the easiest way to do that. That's why I like to save those videos and then share them so I don't have to go and try and find those sounds. Again, that's my way of kind of archiving and remembering where those sounds are. Now one thing worth noting, if you're on a personal account, you can use any sound you want. If you are a business account, those are much more limiting. There are ways around it, um, like recording the video and then in post-production in like Adobe Premier Pro or something like that, dubbing that sound over. Then when you post it, it's gonna be technically an original sound. It's not gonna come from the trend sound. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I've talked about this in past podcast episodes. There are pros and cons to, um, personal and business accounts. Nick Clason (08:23): Uh, you just gotta choose what matters most to you. I think probably the biggest downside of not doing a business account is your link and bio isn't really a link. It's just typed out and people have to like, then go type it into a browser so they can't click and go to your stuff. That's a pretty big downside, and you don't get as many analytics. Um, you still can see views and likes and those types of things by going to each individual video, but you're not able to see trends. And so once things start getting going for you, you probably do wanna swap over to a business account. Just know that it's gonna limit the sounds that you are able to use as a business account on your TikTok platform. All right, so you've clicked to create video. At the bottom of your screen, you're gonna have this big red record button that is gonna probably feel very familiar to you. Nick Clason (09:09): It's gonna look like a camera phone or something like that. Right above that, that red button you have the, you have a thing that says 15 s. That's for 15 seconds to the left of that. If you slide 30, uh, or 60 s I'm sorry, and then slide again, you have three m three minutes, okay? Uh, you can shave the time down after you record. So if you don't know how long it's gonna be and you just want to go the three minutes, then if you don't take that full time, it's not gonna post the full three minutes like black at the end of your video, right? So, uh, just know that going into it, if you're using a sound, like if a sound, you click use sound and it's already loaded at the top of your video there. When you click 15 s or 60 s, um, you switch to that often right below it, it'll say, this sound will only allow you to record for a maximum of seven seconds or something like that. Nick Clason (09:59): All right? And so then, you know, oh, I can just stick with the 15 seconds and I don't need all the other stuff. Right? Okay. So, um, to the left of the record button are, is your effects menu. So there, that's where you're gonna get like your green screen, or right now there's a delay mirror effect that's kind of trending on TikTok that's there. Um, things that like rotate through on your head that my TikTok account personally, like I do this thing for football and all the NFL teams rotate through. I have so many views on those, it's ridiculous, but that's what's helping kind of grow my audience. Um, that's where you're gonna get those types of effects. To the right of that is your upload button, okay? That's where you would upload a previously recorded video or photo from your phone, from your camera roll that you already shot outside of the TikTok app, for example. Nick Clason (10:46): Um, and so then at the top right you have, uh, the flip button that's just simply to flip your camera forward facing, rear facing beneath that you have, uh, your speed. So you have different speeds, 0.3 x 0.5 x one x, two x, and three x, uh, for recording speeds. Uh, below that you have the retouch option, full disclosure, and never used that thing. It's kinda like a filter thing. Beneath it, you have another filter option. This one I think is more about image, less about the specifics of like a retouch sort of thing. Beneath that, you have your timer. That's where you can like set your phone down and give it like a three second head start, so you can walk away from it and do a dance or whatever the case might be. Um, you have a three second, ten second option. When you do that. Nick Clason (11:29): Beneath that you have your q and a option. That's where sometimes you'll see a person's comment on the screen and you can reply with video to the comment. All right? So once you're ready to record, those are all your menu options. Now that we're ready to record, tap that record button. When you wanna start, and when you wanna stop immediately to the right of the button, you have two menu options that are now available. After recording, you have delete, it looks like, kind of like a backspace button. If you want to delete what you recorded, start over, try again. You can do that. There. You also have a red check mark. Um, and that's where you then accept the video. And now you move on into the next sort of editing phase of the, the video. Now, your new menu, once you're into the editing phase, in the top middle of the section, you have your sound. Nick Clason (12:15): If you haven't added a sound yet, that's where you can add a sound. Um, if you've already recorded a sound, a video with the sound, that's where you could delete that sound if you no longer want that sound mm-hmm. on the right hand side of the screen, um, you have, you are at the very top. You have your text on screen option, that's where you click that and you can type that out, um, on your left. Then you now have three different menu options, um, from your, from your text editor, right? You have the square with the A around it. If you, if you select that, that will add a border to the text on the screen. So it might be easier to read if you select it. Again, that will put a full background on that. And if you select it, again, it'll add a background, but now it's transparent and if you select it again, it'll go back to your original without any of those effects on it. Nick Clason (13:04): Then to the right of that, you have your paragraph alignment, you have center, then left alignment, then right alignment. And then to the right of that, you have your person with a speech. That's where you often get that voiceover effect. That says, um, that, that's used as a hook. A lot of times on videos, uh, if you choose that, it will make that, um, text on screen. It will turn it into, uh, a voiceover. And there, once you select that, you'll be given, uh, different options, different types of sounds to play around with. Um, once you select that, the menus you have are recommended motion creative vocals. Those are categories for the types of sounds, and then sub options within those. Okay? To determine what your text, uh, looks like, um, you have the classic option. You have the typewriter option, the handwriting option, neon option, and the CIF option. Nick Clason (13:57): And those. So you got your, your a, your paragraph, your speech, and then to the right of that, that's where you get your text, um, looking options. Okay? And then from there you can select colors and they do swipe from right to left so that you can pick which color you want on, on, on screen there. All right. So when you're done, select, done, pretty self-explanatory. The last thing that you can do then is once that, uh, text is now on the screen, if you select it, it'll pop up three menu options. All right? So you can, uh, text to speech, you can add that feature, or if you already did it, that's where you can change, uh, the voice or whatever the case may be. You can set the duration. How long does that text remain on screen? That's where like if, uh, at a certain sound effect or element or whatever, something pops up, uh, you would drag, you would drag the text to start there or to stop there. Nick Clason (14:49): Okay? And then the last thing thing is to edit, to actually like rewrite or, you know, you had a typo to go in there and change that. All right, moving on down beyond the text, you have your sticker options. That's things like your mentions, hashtags, you can add polls, support nonprofit, add a location, ask a question, reply the date, the time, all kinds of things. If you're familiar with Instagram Stories editor, it's very similar to the sticker options that you see on Instagram Stories. I've actually never even seen that menu option until I went to prepare for this video and I was like, oh, I didn't know all this stuff was on here. Um, beneath that, you have effects, okay? And so across the top, once you click effects, you have your trending effects, then you got visual motion effects, transitions, and, uh, split options. Nick Clason (15:31): So you can kind of explore different effects, things to add to your video and what, whatever, and whatnot. Right there, beneath that, you have your filters. It's just gonna change the look, feel your video. Beneath that, you have studio, that's where you're actually editing, cutting your video, okay? So if you wanna do something to edit the video, click on the video. It's gonna give you a video bar and a sound bar. If, if you have, uh, like just the, the audio from the video that you recorded, they'll be together. If you have a audio, like a song, those are gonna be two kind of separate things, okay? So if you click on your, your top option, your video option, once you do that, a little menu option down beneath will, will pop up. So you have split, you can change the speed, you can adjust the volume, you can rotate it, and ultimately you can delete it. Nick Clason (16:20): Uh, split is a great way. If you have like one big, long thing, um, and you're trying to do a little cuts, you drag to the spot, you split it, and then you delete the rest of the video, then you may add in another video that, that same video, probably do another cut, split delete on the front, delete it on the backside. I hope that makes sense. Um, so then to the right of your video bar option, right? You can click full screen and then there's a plus button, and that's where you can then add that video. Like I was just talking about. If you select the audio, you got your video bar, your, your audio bar, if you select audio, you can add your audio option. Once it's added, you can either replace the sound, adjust the volume, or choose to delete it. You save at the top right and you cancel at the top left. Nick Clason (17:05): Moving back out to our editor, um, beneath that you have your captions option A recommend a caption for almost any talking head video on TikTok. That's how, uh, SEO and search is gonna find certain topics. Beneath that, you have your Noise reducer, then your audio effects, and then finally your privacy settings. So once you're done there at the bottom, you then have two options. Bottom of your, your screen on the left, you have the stories option. And then to the right of that, you'll have your next option. Next is where you go to kind of tap to get to your final step before you actually post it. Okay? And so, um, there is where you would type in your caption, different from your captions on screen, right? But your caption of your actual video, the one that kind of like floats up, and then the likes and stuff stuff, follow it. Nick Clason (17:50): Um, you would also include your hashtags there. And then to the right of your, uh, caption box is where you would select your cover. If you click on that, you can drag your finger to a certain part of the video. You can also add title and text on top of it. Um, the, the title and text, it should be noted that those don't show up when someone's swiping through and just finding your video, those are mostly seen when someone lands on your profile and you want them to know what the video is. Okay? So those, those could be helpful. Also, if you do have onscreen things different from your, your text option, your title, text options there, like I showed you, um, those will also show, um, if someone land on your profile, they'll just be in a different type of format than, than TikTok has to offer. Nick Clason (18:36): Um, if they're, uh, like I said, if they're scrolling past, so they won't display on that screen. Also, there you can tag people, you can add a location, you can add links, and here's what it's available on the links. You have books, minigame Alpha by Titan Breathwork, Buzzfeed Quizzes, Contra Profile, disco Loco, 3d, I R L List with Two Eyes, Quizlet, rotten Tomatoes, stat Muse, and Whisk. Um, never use any of those. So you can check those out. You can then choose, um, who can watch the video, allow comments, allow to, uh, allow, allow Stitch, allow high quality, upload more options, save to device. If you click on the more options, save to device, which I just finally turned off by the way, I couldn't figure out where to get that. That's where you get that. You can select your caption language, um, branded content and ads, and then there's an automatically shared to IG or text ig, ig stories, Snapchat. Nick Clason (19:30): And then the last thing is, um, you can either put it in drafts or you can post it. Last thing I'd recommend, if you are uploading this to other places, um, once you upload it, click uh, go back into your profile, click on the three ellipses option, um, click copy link, and then go to your browser on your phone or on your computer, and type in to Google save TikTok without video watermark or save TikTok video without watermark. If you copy and paste that link into there, it will then download you an option from TikTok without the TikTok watermark all over it. Then you can take that same video and you can post it to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. Um, one thing I've noticed personally, just very anecdotally, is that every time I would post a TikTok, um, and then Instagram with the watermark, Instagram would give me almost no views once I started removing that. Um, we, we've had videos go, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 views because we removed the watermark. Um, I think that the two are kind of competing against each other. Instagram wants to use them, TikTok wants you to use them, so just confuse them and think that they're both being used even though you, you are using both of them. And, uh, they, they just aren't seeing that. Um, and that's just algorithm and kind of AI Nick Clason (20:46): Stuff. All right, so, hey, thank you so much for hanging out and getting that guide if, uh, or getting this guide on how to, how to post TikTok, um, on your account. Listen, if you found this helpful, like subscribe, share, rate, review, all the things, check us out, hybridministry.xyz and check out the description for, um, not only the, the social media checklist, but also the checklist on this, um, the written form of this video on how to post a TikTok, download that, put it on your desk, put it above your, your computer so that when you're posting, you have it as a reference. And until next time, we'll talk to you later.

SUMMARY In this episode, Nick finishes up from part 1 of his conversation with Kerry Ray, director of editing and publishing at YM360. Kerry talks about the limitations of digital ministry and how to best navigate some of the new challenges of digital ministry. In addition Kerry shares some of the resources that are available through YM360 for youth pastors who are in the trenches doing ministry. Follow along at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or any and all other resources at http://www.hybridministry.xyz For resources from YM360 head to http://www.ym360.com SHOWNOTES YM360 YM360 http://www.ym360.com MINISTRY TO PARENTS https://ministrytoparents.com/ MY YOUTH MIN https://myyouthmin.com/ TIMECODES 00:00-03:01 Intro 03:01-05:41 The Limitations of Digital Ministry and How to use what we learned from our time in COVID 05:41-11:10 How do we show up to a place teenagers are native to? 11:10-22:00 If you had a crystal ball, how does digital and hybrid ministry need to adjust as we go forward? 22:00-26:55 What resources are available to Youth Pastors? 26:55-27:53 Final encouragement from Kerry to ministry leaders 27:53-31:07 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. And hey, if you were here for episode, uh, 19, the most recent one that we dropped, it was a part one of an interview with my great friend, um, Kerry Ray, who was on staff at YM 360. He, after 30 years of work inside the local church, has decided to step into more of a role where he's, um, serving the youth pastor, um, and people who are in the trenches doing ministry. So not only does he come with a wealth of personal hands on, boots on the ground, kind of firsthand experience and knowledge of reaching teenagers, um, and seeingDigital Ministry, Contact Work, Relational Ministry, Discipleship, Student Ministry, Youth Ministry, META Church, Streaming Church, TikTok, Social Media life before digital was introduced. Uh, the way he puts it was, um, I'm a digital immigrant versus now doing ministry to people who are digital natives. And so, uh, we're gonna dive into part two of this interview, but I would recommend if you have not heard, go back to part one because he introduces this idea, um, that's not, you know, it's not from him alone, right? Nick Clason (01:08): But like, he introduces this idea of a thing called contact work. And contact work is basically the basic premise of going to where people are as opposed to hoping that they will always just come to us, right? If we build it, if it's so beautiful, if it's so shiny and amazing, they will come to us. So he introduces that idea. Um, and now we're gonna kind of explore is that idea of ministry possible, uh, to do digitally. And I would argue that him and I agree for the most part, but I think that, um, we have to sort of like nuance our way into it. Which honestly, it's an interesting dichotomy. And even in having the conversation, I think is how most people feel about digital ministry. I think at a knee jerk reaction, there's this, oh no, you can't do that digitally because discipleship and ministry is best done life on life. Nick Clason (02:00): And for the record, I agree with that. Like, I want people that I can physically touch, hug, like sit and eat a knee, have a cup of coffee. Like, here's a great example. Right now, my wife is gone. She's, uh, visiting her mom back home in Ohio. I'm in Texas. We have a relationship. We've video or FaceTimed four times this week, uh, or four times a day, I should say. Um, every day that she's been gone, we've texted late at night, like, we have a relationship, but good grief, like, I wanna give my wife a hug. You know what I mean? Like, there's, it's obviously better together. However, my cell phone is making it possible to remain in contact with my wife. And, and so I think like when you put it that way, you're like, well, yeah, of course. Like, so then how do we add some intentionality? Nick Clason (02:47): And we talk about safety, some parameters. What does it look like, um, to do ministry in this way? So I'm really excited for you to check out part two. Again, if you haven't checked out part one, go back and listen to it. Um, and without any further ado, here is part two of our conversation. I mean, honestly, the entire basis right of this podcast is, is what's called the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Because I think what we've learned, at least the way I felt, and I was a part Kerry of an attractional based church during C and so we put together, in my opinion, the best youth ministry online experience that existed. But no one cared because the contact work didn't exist. And so it's, but then what happened right, was this argument, this tug and this tug and pull, like in c everyone was forced to go all the way digital. Nick Clason (03:37): And so we all did, we all went all in to the best of our abilities. And then once the restrictions started to lift, the pendulum swung almost so hard because we all saw the effects of not being together and how valuable that is. And so it almost swung like, let's, let's throw the baby out with the bath water and all the good things that we learned from that time period from being fully digital and having, you know, our like proverbial hands tied behind our back. Like I, so I went to a place where a, um, I was a campus student pastor. I didn't speak. Um, and we didn't speak even pre covid. We had a video speaker, um, every week cuz there's universal across all campuses. And I can give you my opinions about that later. But that was, that was one hand tie behind my back. Nick Clason (04:26): The second hand tie behind my back was that I wasn't allowed to meet with students. So Ty, what I feel like both hands tie behind my back, all right, now you're the youth pastor here, go do youth ministry. And I was like, how? But that literally forced me right? To just rethink everything. And for literally six months to nine months, I had to navigate that world with both a handstand behind my back. And maybe that is what, and as I'm talking this out with you, maybe that's what has prompted my passion around this because I realized there's some good things you can do digitally, but it can't replace what's done physically. And so I think we gotta find that, that hybrid I think contact, I think, yeah, yeah. At its core happens in person. But think about, you know, when you started out in ministry, you couldn't grab a phone and text that student and be like, Hey, how'd that test go? Nick Clason (05:20): You didn't have that. You had to rely on a physical meetup, the football game, youth group, whatever, to make that happen. And so we, we can live in that digital space and bow borrow off the equity that we have from what happens in person. And so how do we enter into there effectively, like you said, cuz that's what Jesus did. He showed up. We can now show up in ways that teenagers are, to your point, native to how do we do that? What are the, what, what does that look like? I think we're all trying to figure that out. Kerry Ray (05:53): I, I think we are A couple of things. You, you said one I wanted to say, I don't know if your, your listeners understand or know about you that you walked into a church as a youth pastor, right? As this whole thing started, or that whole thing started. And so immediately you were trying, you, you, they didn't even know who you were. So you were trying to introduce yourself in a digital way, uh, to a group of people who didn't know you at all. Um, and that was interesting. Um, but the other thing you said, um, you mentioned about, um, we snapped back, the pendulum swung back. Mm-hmm. , can we be honest? I think the reason why the pendulum swung back so quickly is because we were so many people were terrible at one of it, at one side of it. Yeah. And it was failing so badly and they were terrible at it. Kerry Ray (06:40): Well, it's not familiar. The second well, yeah. And the second that that ended, they they run back to what, you know Yeah. As fast as you can, because I'm terrible at this. So we did, you threw the baby out with the bath water because you were like, one, I'm not good at it. Two, um, nobody likes to do stuff. They're not good. Right. So I'm not good at it. I don't wanna do it. I just wanna get as far away from it as possible. Let's go back to what we know when it was working. Let's go back to the stuff that I was confident in doing. Let's just run back to that. But if Covid showed us anything, it is, there needs to be, to your point, a hybrid. There needs to be both. And there are students that are out there that we can, you know, need to say hello to digitally. Kerry Ray (07:22): We do need to learn how to utilize that digital space better. Um, and this is another thing I was thinking as you were, as you were saying that is, you know, in the physical contact work mm-hmm. , there were boundaries and rules. Um, uh, especially in ministry. You know, you, you had, there's, there were certain things you could do and you, there were certain things you put boundaries on and said, Hey, contact work means this. It does not mean, you know, driving a female or even a male by yourself and go, oh yeah, that's contact work. No, that's, that's potential jail time. That's what that is. . Um, so you don't, you don't do those things. I think in digital. Um, you mentioned texting a student, Hey, how'd that test go? Mm-hmm. . Um, I know with our small group leaders, they were very nervous mm-hmm. and still are. Kerry Ray (08:12): Cause we don't know the boundaries. Um, do you text a student? Is that okay? Um, because what if their parent is not cool with, um, you know, a 35 year old texting a 14 year old mm-hmm. . Um, how was your day? Um, you know, that can, that can kinda be weird. Uh, so there are some boundaries there. Do you hang out? You know, I can go to a football, I can go to a middle school football game and I could be there as a student pastor and I can see my kids that I see, I can meet their friends. This, there again, young life does a great job of this. You know, I can be intentional about meeting people. I'm in a public space. There's other people around. Yep. That is very different than me logging into Call of Duty intentionally and playing in a chatroom of, you know, a bunch of 14 year old guys and girls that I don't know. Nick Clason (09:06): Yeah. Kerry Ray (09:06): That's, that's different. And maybe the digital immigrant in me has that trigger goes, this is weird. Yeah. Uh, maybe that's the digital immigrant in me versus the digital native, but there's some oddity there. And so we've gotta figure out not just a balance of how do we, how do we engage that way, but what are the boundaries? What are the best practices? What are the safety protocols that need to be in place in a digital format to where you're not the weirdo, you're not the weird old guy or the weird old girl hanging out, you know, in a chatroom or in a, in a digital space. Um, the internet has been great, but it's also shown us that it's highly dangerous and that it is full of predators. And not to say that the football, the middle school football game stands, that there's not predators out there as well sitting in those, in those bleachers. Kerry Ray (10:02): But it's, society sees it differently in a digital space. Um, because right now that is where a lot of the ugly stuff is happening. Um, so all that to say is we don't need to abandon it. We do need to be careful. Mm-hmm. , we do need to engage, but to do it with boundaries and guidelines in place. And we need to, if you're in the church world, you need to set your people up well because they don't know. And they're trying to do what you're, you're telling them, Hey, do contact work. Hey, engage, Hey, be a part of these, these students' lives. And they do. But you gotta give them the boundaries of the protocol so that they know and they have confidence in how to interact in that digital space. One, they're already digital native more than likely. And two, it's an awkward space that they're unfamiliar with. And three, they need to feel safe. Just like if you sent them into a football game and said, Hey, I want you to hit at least one football game. Here's what you do in that space. Here's what you don't do in that space. You need to do the same thing with them in a digital context. Nick Clason (11:10): Yeah. So, from the seat you're sitting in now, um, what, if anything, like do you see about how covid, digital, hybrid, any of that stuff, how is it influencing and impacting ministry leaders? Cause you're sitting in a unique seat where you are helping serve the type of person that you were for the last 30 years. So what are you noticing? What are you hearing? What are the pain points? What are people asking? What are people trying to figure out? What are things that you're seeing? And then what do you maybe envision or see as, uh, a future maybe, maybe in like a year, but also maybe in the next five, 10 years of ministry, student ministry and all that stuff? Kerry Ray (11:55): Yeah. What I'm seeing is I get to speak to youth pastors in multiple states, in multiple denominations. Um, people who have been doing it for 20 plus years, 10 years. I was at Arkansas this past weekend and a room of, you know, 25, 30 guys and girls, um, who do youth ministry. And, um, there were some that were full-time. There were some that were, you know, part-time. There were some that were bivocational. Um, there were some that had been doing this for 10 years, eight years, 20 years. And then a couple of the couple of them are like, yeah, this is month three. Yeah. Um, , you just go, woo. Um, but I think they're all struggling with the same thing, which is what we've been talking about this whole time, is how to balance, um, how to juggle the digital aspect versus the physical aspect and, and what is contact work and how to, how do I create things that people wanna be a part of that students wanna be a part of? Kerry Ray (12:55): How do I program? Um, you know, a lot of 'em are just trying to figure out, how do I do any of this? I'm just winging it. How do I get support and momentum and, um, those pieces without even the digital piece involved. Um, but yeah, that's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing people struggling. I'm seeing people trying to navigate this return from shut down to non shut and the, and the damage that has been done in the, in, in that. And I am seeing people try to figure out how to engage in a new way, a new group of people, um, being, you know, this, this group of, um, of Gen Z students who are still around, and then this incoming crop of generation alpha students who are currently, uh, sixth, seventh. And depending on the age, you've got a couple eighth graders that are young ones mm-hmm. . Kerry Ray (13:48): Um, but just trying to, how, how do I, how do I engage them? How do we, how do we, um, provide them with, with the things they need? And there again, I know this has nothing to do with digital, but what I'm really seeing the most, uh, in the youth ministry space is the audience has shifted so much in that culturally it's a different world. Um, there's a lot more questions. They're open to a lot more things. They, um, and, and pastors are trying to figure out, for example, you know, how do you teach in a ministry context? How do you teach a teenager about the word of God? Which is absolute truth when the generation doesn't believe in such a thing is absolute truth. Mm-hmm. , how do you do that? Um, how do you, you know, how do you, so many youth pastors are preaching about characters in the Bible or things that were happening scripturally. Kerry Ray (14:45): And they'll say, you know, well, well, Moses, so and so and so and so and so and so as if the people listening to them know who that is, is without stopping to say, let me tell you who this is, because they're, again, the nuns in os they were raised by a group of parents who didn't grow them up in, in scripture. So they don't know. And so our, our mistake is, or the mistakes I'm seeing, or pastors speaking in a, in a phrase like, say, like I said, well, Moses, you know Moses, they don't, yeah. They're like, yeah, the guy with the boat, they're like, no, that's Noah Nick Clason (15:16): , Kerry Ray (15:17): But we have to pause. We have to slow down and teach mm-hmm. . And I think we have to do that. I think technology, um, Instagram, social media, TikTok, I, I love, I love, and I hate what I'm seeing right now on TikTok. Um, and if you're not on TikTok, you need to at least look at it. Mm-hmm. . Um, if I can encourage, if a youth pastor's listening, if I can encourage you, I know it's, you know, it's the devil. I get it. But at least be familiar with it. Yeah. At least engage. And I know your church probably has a stance on it. And, and I'll warn you, there's things, you're gonna see some stuff on there. That algorithm is incredible. Um, you only need to pause for a second and it'll feed you more of that. Um, Nick Clason (15:59): So yeah, listen, here's the best TikTok hack, by the way. If you start it and they start feeding you stuff you don't want, hold your, hold the video down, click, not interested, do that two or three times and it's gone forever. Like I'm telling you, can, you can game that algorithm, uh, the way each can, the way you'll, you want, Kerry Ray (16:17): I'll see a better TikTok hack. Don't sign up for an account Nick Clason (16:21): or Kerry Ray (16:22): That, cause that way every time you, every time you log off the, turn the app off, you turn it back on, you get the most stuff. It's new every time. Um, but what, what I was gonna say about, about TikTok was some of the greatest things I'm seeing is, is student ministries, youth pastors, pastors utilizing that technology and teaching theology. Yeah. And, and, and, um, you know, there's a couple guys that do like the, you know, one minute sermon, um, and stuff that excellent content mm-hmm. this, the negative side of that is I'm seeing that the same thing with terrible theology mm-hmm. . Um, and I would say that group of people are using it very well. And our students, there, again, keep in mind your kids don't know the difference. They don't. Yeah. Um, and so they're watching things on TikTok that are, let's call it, you know, 30% true. Kerry Ray (17:22): Uh, and then it just kinda hangs, hangs hangs the right or hangs the left and, and goes crazy. Um, you know, I watched somebody the other day talking about, you know, Jesus, you know, Jesus's name wasn't Jesus. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, good. This is good. And then they kept going. They kept going. They like, so Jesus wasn't really God, he was just the, and I'm like, oh, no, no, because it started off, it started off really strong and going, yeah, this is good. This is good. Let's teach them these things. You know, there weren't really three wise men as far as we know. There were, there were wise men that showed up. Great. Great. So, you know what they were, they were really these things. They were Illuminati No, they were not Illuminati. You know, just, just crazy stuff. Um, where do I think it's going? Kerry Ray (18:08): I I definitely think, you know, the, the, those of us who are digital, uh, immigrants we're aging out. Um, more and more digital natives. Um, that's the way the world works, right. You know, more kids are being born more, more babies and children are being handed iPhones and iPads as pacifiers and are growing up with it. And that is a thing. And it can be good or it can be bad. And, and I guess my biggest takeaway would be, or challenge would be this, don't build a moat. There's no mo big enough. Whether you're talking to parents or whether you're trying to do your own ministry piece. Don't build a moat and try to protect everybody from technology. That's, it's foolish. You're not, that's, that's not a winnable battle. No. Um, I think what we need to focus on is redeeming that culture and redeeming technology and saying, how can I take what is, what is, how can I take who these students are and meet them where they are versus where we wish they were? Kerry Ray (19:11): Um, meet them where they are and redeem this technology and utilize it in a way for the glory of God and for, for the, for the right reasons. The right purposes. And try to try to really point to him using technology and use it to reach students. Use it to disciple students. Use it to, um, bring and share Jesus to students who may never, ever step foot in your church door, but they may be scrolling through TikTok and just happened to come across a video where you talk about this God man who loved you so much that he gave himself for you on your behalf, so that you could have eternal life. And it may, here's what I find interesting about students in this generational speech that we're in right now. There's no reason for a teenager to show up to the things you're doing. Kerry Ray (20:05): Mm-hmm. , there's just no reason for it. Yeah. But they still are. They're showing up to these things. And it's not because you got a great Instagram account. They're showing up to these things because they have an internal intrinsic curiosity about spiritual things that I believe that God has placed in them from creation to seek him out. Yeah. And they're showing up because that curiosity is itching and they're trying to figure out a way to scratch it. And they're just curious enough to still listen and use, use Instagram and TikTok all you want, but use it to scratch that curiosity in them that is God given. And let God be God and God do the things. We don't save people anyway. We never have, we haven't done it physically and we're not gonna do it digitally. Um, that's not, that's not for us, but utilize the, the tools that we have in front of us to continue to do the things that we are called to doop. Kerry Ray (21:06): Um, so yes, technology is out there. It is, it is doing its thing. Um, don't run from it. Don't build a mote to protect people from it, whether they're your own kids or not. Utilize it. Teach people how to use it. Teach people how to be safe with it. Set your volunteers up to utilize it. Well give them boundaries. Help them to, to do this thing well. Um, you know, show them how to do it and show your church how to do it. Show all the digital immigrants how to do it. Um, and lead, lead there. Lead from lead from the backseat. Um, especially if you're watching this, listen to this. Sorry. If you're listening to this as a, as a digital, uh, native, help people learn how to do this and to do it right. And to do it well. And not to be afraid of it. Cause I think the biggest thing is fear. Um, but yeah. Mean, sorry, man. I got, I've got on my soapbox for a minute, but Nick Clason (21:58): No, that was really good. I just, that was a great, that was a great place to land it. Why don't you, uh, you know, this has been a very youth ministry centric conversation, which admittedly so, and we, we let you guys know that at the beginning. Tell 'em about, uh, everything, you know, what, how can they engage with stuff over at YM 360. What are some of the resources that you, you all are producing to help, to help people in this space right now? Kerry Ray (22:20): Yeah. For, um, we, we create things. Our, our whole point is to make the things, to make youth ministry youth pastors wear a lot of hats. It's, it's hard. Um, I told those guys in girls in Arkansas, uh, this past weekend, youth ministry's harder than it's ever been. And it's not easy. Yeah. But we have more opportunity than we've ever had had because there are so many blank canvases out there who don't know. There's not a lot of, um, church baggage in teenagers right now, cuz they never went. Um, they read about it, they see it online, but, you know, they see people deconstructing and talking about it, but they don't have it themselves. A lot of them, because they, they haven't engaged yet. So, gosh, there's so much out there. Um, and why do sixty.com if you wanna check that out? Uh, there's tons of resources, uh, for you. Kerry Ray (23:10): There's, we post blog articles every single Monday. You can check out that kinda stuff. Um, I think that the, the best things that you can be a part of right now that we work on is we have two big platforms that we put out every month. New content for one of those is called ministry parents.com, ministry to parents.com. And it's not for parents, it's for you to help parents. So if you're in ministry, uh, and you're trying to help equip parents to be better parents in their home and to be, and to help those no e s's raise students in a way that points them to Jesus, um, we provide you with all the stuff. We do it all for you. Uh, we write all your emails, we, we curate all the content for you. It's really just point and click and paste and send. Kerry Ray (24:00): And we do it all for you. Uh, all of us know that we're supposed to partner with parents. None of us really know what that means. Um, and so and so we're trying to figure it out. And you know, what usually keeps us as student pastors from it is either we don't have kids of our own. And we go, well, I'm not legit. There's no way I'm gonna look at a parent and go, you know what you should do with that 14 year old? Cause they're gonna look at me and go, yeah, you tell me about that buddy. Or by the time we are legitimate, we realize that curating content for parents as far as what they need is a full-time job. Yep. And we can't do all that. And so that's what ministry parents does. Ministry parents.com. And then we just launched a brand new platform for training and development of youth pastors, um, that talks about all of this kind of stuff on the regular, every month we provide you with, gosh, 2026 plus pieces of content that's brand new every month that talks about everything from volunteers to parents, to technology, to other disruptors that are in that you're dealing with. Kerry Ray (25:04): Um, the whole point of it is to help you grow, lead and thrive in ministry. It is, it is all about developing you as a person. Um, you could check that out as well. It is my youth min.com, my youth min.com. It is, it is worth it. It's worth checking that out. Um, all those are subscription based stuff, but it's, it's not expensive. So whether you're full-time, part-time, uh, big church, small church, um, multi-site, multi staff, or you're flying solo, um, it is something that you can utilize. Um, and anytime, you know, my I am available, like I said, I tell people all the time, let me be that guy. Let me be the person that when you're struggling and you need somebody to talk to, when you are excited, when you're new and, and going, I don't know if this is the right way to do this or not, uh, I'm available. Kerry Ray (25:54): And, and more than happy to talk to you, I, I stepped out a student ministry proper to take this YM 360 role to give myself the ability to have these conversations like we're having the day, uh, with youth pastors, youth workers, uh, all over the place. So my email address is Kerry kr y com. Um, or you can catch me on Twitter and Instagram, uh, K R two, and then the letter you k um, I, I don't have TikTok. I just have a blank account so I can keep up with what's going on, but nobody wants to see me do Renegade or any of the dances anyway, so I know Charlie de that's, it's true, it's true. I should be on Dancing With the Stars, but I'm a, I'm no TikTok dancer day. So Yeah, day one day it's my aspiration. . Uh, yeah. So please, please hit me up and lemme hear from you. Any questions you ever have, anything you ever need, or if you just need to be encouraged and say don't, because here's, here's the deal, Nick, I just want people to know that there's less people joining into the student ministry rights than there used to be. Hmm. And, uh, we need more people than ever before. And so, yeah. Kerry Ray (27:10): You know, um, gosh, I'm going blank on that. Josh ship is the guy who said, you know, every student needs one caring adult. Yeah. Every student is one caring adult away from being a success. Um, and so, man, we need so many caring adults out there who are willing to see students, to love students where they are versus where they wish they were. That's good. And, and just to jump in and say, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to let somebody show me the ropes. So Nick Clason (27:43): This stuff, man. Hey, I appreciate it. Thanks for your, uh, absolutely your time today from, uh, Birmingham Hotel Room. It's been great. Kerry Ray (27:51): . Thank you very much, man. Thanks for having me. Nick Clason (27:55): Wow. Well, man, I hope that you guys found that interesting and fascinating. Uh, hey, uh, in the show notes, wherever you get podcasts, you should be able to, uh, see the links to all the things that Kerry was talking about and all the resources that are available. If you are not a youth pastor, thank you for sitting through just a couple of old timey youth pastors chatting up, doing ministry, talking about ministry. But if you know someone who is in, in particular, man, I would really encourage you to share with him the ministry to parent and the, um, my Youth men, um, platform. Share those links with them. It's something that can be really, really helpful. Uh, we talked about this a little bit, um, off off Mike, Kerry and I, well, once we hung up. But my youth min, honestly, guys, it is conference level training. Nick Clason (28:42): And so if you're a youth pastor and you're in a small church without a giant budget, like it's behind a paywall, however, it is far cheaper than if you got a plane, got a hotel, um, and paid for a conference ticket somewhere across country or whatever, and you have access to it. Like, I don't know if you heard, he's like 20 something pieces of new content every single month. So there is conference level training very available at your fingertips, very accessible. Um, and so that's a budget saver, you know, and so I think leaders who wanna be learning, um, are growing super helpful. So check that out for sure. I am a, I'm a contributor to it, so, um, shamelessly love to have you check it out. Um, but anyway, uh, appreciate you guys, uh, listening. And if you're anything like me and you listen to podcasts on the go, I do it when I'm, I'm running, I do it when I'm driving, and I do it when I'm on the lawn doing the dishes. Nick Clason (29:37): The reality is, um, Kerry said so much good stuff in there and I would hate, hate for you to miss it. And so we, for free provide, uh, transcripts for every single episode. You can check those out at hybridministry.xyz or just, uh, read through it in your podcast catcher so that you're able to just see what's going on and, uh, hear what's going on and maybe take some notes, um, and take some of the things that you heard in your ears and put it to paper if you need it. Um, for conversations or for meetings with, uh, upper level leadership or whatever the case may be. We just wanna serve you and help you win in your area of ministry. So you can check that out at hybridministry.xyz. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We'd love to have you come hang out with us. And hey, listen, if you found this helpful one way that you could really help us out, um, a gigantic favor for us would just be male. Nick Clason (30:26): If you could give us a like, or a rating or a review, that would be very beneficial, help us pay it forward, um, and help you maybe pay it forward even to some other people who, who wanna help uncover and find this information. So, once again, grateful for you, thankful for you. Um, hope you guys have a great rest of your day, wherever you are, whatever you might be doing, and we pray that this is helping, um, make digital discipleship just a little bit easier for you in your ministry context. Until next time, talk to you later guys. Bye.

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