emotional development

Is it possible to be around narcissistic people and not lose your power? Especially when it's your mom, dad, ex, or boss who’s acting toxic?

Today, Mel is joined by Rebecca Zung, an expert on narcissism and a globally recognized high-conflict negotiator. Rebecca is also a top-ranked trial lawyer who has studied narcissism so that she could win against them in the courtroom. She’s written the playbook, SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with A Narcissist and Win. 

She is here to make the case that you CAN stay in power no matter how toxic the people are around you. And by following her 4-part plan, you can even win when dealing with narcissism.

In this conversation, Rebecca discusses topics like:

Narcissism: what is it?

The 3 types of narcissism.

What a covert passive-aggressive narcissist is.

What a malignant narcissist is.

What a grandiose narcissist is.

The link between narcissism and divorce.

The exact phrases that can change the dynamic between you and a narcissist.

The top 3 sentences to disarm a narcissist without causing rage.

Why “cutting off” a narcissist won’t work.

The physical symptoms you can have when dealing with a narcissist.

Why being “the victim” is keeping you trapped.

What narcissistic supply is and why it is so important.

The 2 ways a narcissist gets their “narcissistic supply".

What happens in a narcissistic brain in childhood that flips a switch.

The tie between trauma and narcissism.

What the 4 non-verbal triggers for any narcissist are.

Why a narcissist is just an 8-year-old throwing a tantrum.

The reason why a narcissist actually fears you.

The definition of love bombing and why it’s so addictive.

What the 3 phases of a narcissistic relationship are.

How you can be physiologically addicted to a ‘love bomber’ (it’s as addictive as cocaine).

What narcissistic rage is and why it happens.

What your 3 options are in a relationship with a narcissist.

What happens when you become the focus of narcissistic rage.

What those passive-aggressive or back-handed comments mean to a narcissist.

What triangulation is, and how to protect yourself.

The biggest myth about narcissists.

The real reason why narcissists string you along.

The 4-step process to getting your power back from a narcissist.

The $2M apology.

What to do when a narcissist is raging at you.

When it's okay to tell a narcissist what they need to hear.

The 3 things to stop doing now in a narcissistic relationship.

How to respond to an accusatory email at work.

What you need to know about negotiating with a narcissist.

Why saying “I’m anticipating…” disarms any narcissist.

The first boundary you need to create with a narcissist.

What to look for as signs that you are dating, engaged to, or married to a narcissist.

You can purchase Rebecca’s book, ‘SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win’, here: https://a.co/d/bLWp5YZ

Follow Rebecca Zung:

Instagram: instagram.com/rebeccazung

Webpage: rebeccazung.com

Watch the episodes on YouTube: https://bit.ly/45OWCNr

Check out my book, The High 5 Habit: https://a.co/d/g1DQ8Pt

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Want more resources? Go to my podcast page at melrobbins.com/podcast.

Disclaimer

The data is clear: Levels of anxiety, depression, self-harm and suicide have spiked for American teenagers over the last decade. Last Friday’s episode with the psychologist Jean Twenge sifted through that data to uncover both the scale of the crisis and its possible causes. Today’s episode focuses on the experiences behind that data: the individuals who are struggling, and what we can do as friends, parents and a broader society to help them.

Lisa Damour is a clinical psychologist, the co-host of the podcast “Ask Lisa” and the author of books including “The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: Raising Connected, Capable and Compassionate Adolescents” and “Under Pressure: Confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety in Girls.” Statistics about teenage mental health are illuminating, but Damour has spent decades working closely with teens, allowing her to fill in some of the gaps in that data and give a nuanced picture of what may be going on. She has emerged from her clinical experience more hopeful about the prospects for helping teens through a life stage — and a moment in history — that poses serious challenges to their well-being.

We discuss the neuroscience behind why being a teenager is so emotionally difficult, why Damour doesn’t believe smartphones are primarily to blame for the teen mental health crisis, how overscheduling teens can hurt their social development, why girls experience more anxiety than boys even as they outperform boys in school, which types of smartphone use can be good and bad for young people, the problems with the cultural belief that stress and anxiety should be eliminated at all costs, how to tell the difference between harmful and healthy anxiety, how parents should approach social media use with their children, how all of us can help one another cope with negative emotions and more.

Book Recommendations:

Psychoanalytic Diagnosis by Nancy McWilliams

Transcendent Kingdom by Yaa Gyasi

A Swim in a Pond in the Rain by George Saunders

Listen to this podcast in New York Times Audio, our new iOS app for news subscribers. Download now at nytimes.com/audioapp

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact checking by Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Jeff Geld. Our production team is Emefa Agawu, Jeff Geld, Roge Karma and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Kristina Samulewski.

Being a parent can be tough these days. Dozens of books and articles offer competing answers to questions from how to help siblings get along to how much screen time is too much, and every decision you make feels important. It's no wonder that many parents feel tired, stressed, and unsure of whether they're doing a good job. Tim Cavell, PhD, and Lauren Quetsch, PhD, authors of Good Enough Parenting: A Six-Point Plan for a Stronger Relationship With Your Child, talk about what “good enough parenting” means and why it’s a worthy goal, why nurturing the parent-child relationship is parents’ most important job, why science backs the old adage “choose your battles wisely,” and how to develop loving, supportive relationships with your kids that will stand the test of time.

More info: Tim Cavell, PhD, Lauren Quetsch, PhD, Good Enough Parenting: A Six-Point Plan for a Stronger Relationship With Your Child, and Speaking of Psychology home page.

Are we all either secure, avoidant, or anxious? How does your relationship with your parents shape your romantic partnerships? And what is Stephen’s attachment style? 

The experience of motherhood evokes powerful feelings, ranging from joy and bonding to anger and rejection. If we can develop a conscious relationship with these feelings, we meet both denied aspects of ourselves—our shadows—and experience the pleasures and enrichment of mothering that serve the individuation process. 

You can learn more about Lisa's work on motherhood here. 

The Dream:

I was visiting the home of a friend who doesn’t exist in the real world. She lives with her mother in a house near woods in another state. She’s very talkative and a good friend but is ill and can’t work. We hung around the house and laughed and talked, can’t recall what about—shared history, I guess. I was sure this was not my first visit and we’ve known each other a long time. To stress again, the person in the dream is nobody I’ve ever met in real life. We connected well but I had to go. I wanted to call her but didn’t have a phone number. She said she would email me. I woke with a sense of confusion that my friend didn’t actually exist.