market wagon

Season 2 - Episode 1

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (00:00):

Today we're gonna have a conversation with a farmer and her teenage daughter, who are two key parts of the family owned New Horizon Farm and Dairy, as well as Happy Cows Creamery. They're in southwest Ohio, located about halfway between Cincinnati and Columbus. And as they so eloquently put it, the milk you get from them today was just grass two days ago. But it almost didn't happen. If not for a business plan that was drawn up by a 16-year-old girl, the farm would've likely suffered the same fate as the dozen other dairy farms around him, which have gone out of business in the past 10 years. Welcome back for the second season of the podcast. I am so excited to share the Bickel story with you today.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (00:40):

Welcome to More Than a Mile, a local food podcast from Market Wagon focused on connecting you to local food through farmer stories from across America. I'm Nick Carter, your host, a farmer and CEO and co-founder of Market Wagon. We are your online farmers market with a mission to enable food producers to thrive in their local and regional markets. Food is so much more than just nutrients and calories. It's actually the fabric that holds us together. Thanks for joining me for this episode of More Than a Mile, and thank you for buying local food. That's one critical step in making an investment in food for future generations. I am really excited today to be joined by Jackie Bickel and Maggie Mathews. We are gonna be talking about what turns out to be a story of kind of how a teenager's question and ambitious business plan, breathe new life, and another generation into a family farm. With now the expectation that it becomes a third generation farm. So welcome to the podcast, Jackie, More than a mile, New Horizon farm.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (01:43):

Yes.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (01:43):

Yeah. So this was started by your father-in-law, right? Almost 60 years ago?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (01:48):

Yes, it'll be 60 years next year.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (01:51):

Okay. And while for over half a century he operated the farm under normal business conditions, it sounds like in the last decade or so, things really, really changed. Right?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (02:04):

They did. For decades, my father-in-law, my husband and his two brothers operated essentially a commercial dairy farm where we shipped our milk through a co-op. They came and picked it up by the semi-load every other day. We received pay based on the hundred pound weight, which was established by, you know, federal order. And about 10 years ago, the milk industry went upside down for a variety of reasons. Consumer demand declines, commercial dairies kept getting bigger, family farms kept getting smaller. And with the economy the way that it was, we, at one point we were receiving payment for our milk t hat was the same payment my father-in-law was receiving back in the 1980s. So

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (02:57):

Wow. That's not how that's supposed to go

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (02:57):

. Right, exactly. Yeah. And we knew the demand was there. We just, we couldn't understand it. And my husband was just, he was getting very frustrated and we were talking about an exit strategy, not something that my father-in-law wanted to see happen. Wow. But, you know, putting pen pencil to paper, it just was not, it was not working.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (03:22):

Now the whole, was the whole family aware? Was this a family affair and family conversations around what could happen with the farm?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (03:29):

Well, in 2015, my father-in-law retired and he passed the operation down to my husband. So we rent the land off of the family partnership and we still operate the dairy. 2015 prices were great. It was shortly after that where it started the downturn and we did have conversations with my father-in-law. He didn't wanna see it happen. We were looking for other alternatives. We downsized the herd. We started renting out part of our tillable ground to other area farms to farm themselves to keep our expenses down. And it just, it wasn't gonna work. And Maggie came home from an FFA field trip one day. She was on the dairy judging team, and she's like, I have an idea. And of course, we were not interested because we were very focused on what we were going to do.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (04:29):

And she was 16 years old at the time, right?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (04:33):

Yep. Just turned 16.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (04:34):

Yeah. Was, was there an aspect of let the adults in the room figure this out?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (04:41):

You know, my husband is very hardheaded and I can publicly say that because he's very proud of his hardheadedness. And you know, all he's ever known is milking cows, you know, twice a day. This is how we've done it, this is how my father's done it. And getting outside of that box and looking at other alternatives I know is very scary for him. We've only been married for 10 years. I bring a little bit more outside experience, but he's only worked on the farm. That's all he knows. So it was it was a tough sell at first

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (05:16):

Maggie. So 16 years old, you go to your parents with a new business idea. Where, where did this inspiration come from? How did you come up with the idea?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (05:24):

So, as she said, I was on our dairy judging team, which included going out to multiple farms during the season, judging other people's cows off of a point system basically. So I just kind of like, I liked the idea. The family was also local and was related to my science teacher as well. And we were doing business plans in ag class one day, and my group partners didn't do their half. So I ended up doing the entire project by myself, .

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (05:57):

And so I used to love group projects. I was the other one. Same ?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (06:02):

No, I was always the one that did all of the work, which I was fine with it cuz then it, like I got to control how it was done. But I kind of just like fooled around and made a little business plan, like just for the school project after going on the FFA trip. And I was like, Yeah, this actually could be a real thing. Like this could be legit if we put the, put the time and the statistics and everything else into it.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (06:27):

So Maggie, you've gotta convince your dad to change the way that he's been farming. Was that easy to do?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (06:35):

It was definitely a challenge because not only was it just this silly little business plan I made in FFA class, but I'm also a young woman in the industry who doesn't have nearly as much experience as he does. So it was nagging at him more so than anything else. Just continuously bringing it up and putting the, planting the seed in his mind of there is another option that isn't getting rid of what you've worked your entire life towards. So it was hard, but it was worth it.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (07:06):

When do you think that turning point was? What do you think finally flipped a switch for him to say, Let's give this a shot.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (07:13):

I was a phone call,

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (07:15):

It was a phone call. Jackie was a phone jumps in. It sounds like you remember where you were when this took place.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (07:21):

, I was with him and the owner of the dairy farm that Maggie went on the field trip with, decided he was going to go out of business and he was going to sell his bottling operation. And he called to see if Donald would be interested because he had heard through the grapevine that we were looking at that avenue. So my husband spent several months shadowing him, learning the business, deciding how we were going to purchase the equipment, transition things. And it was gonna happen at the first of the year in 2018. And at Christmas the farmer put a little note on his milk shed letting his customers know that he was done and to stay tuned for new ownership and new opportunities. And the media got ahold of it. And needless to say, within a day we received a phone call and he had changed his mind.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (08:20):

He was going to keep bottling. And that just set my husband back to square one and I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. We've got a plan. We know what we have to do. We know what we have to buy, let, we're gonna keep on going. And it took us a few more months to source the different equipment from another producer and to get where we needed to be cuz we were going back to square one. I told him that, don't let the roadblock stop us. You know, we just need to go around it and keep moving forward. So it took us a little longer than what we had anticipated, but we did find other equipment and we were ready to start rolling right in the middle of the pandemic,

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (09:06):

Right in the middle of the pandemic. So you find the equipment, you raise the money to be able to buy this equipment. So on a farm that's already struggling to make money, you raise more money to invest in something new. Was that hard? How did you do that?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (09:22):

Well, the the producer was bottling milk and making ice cream in Indiana. He heard about our story, I shared with him our struggles and he said, You know what, I will give you this equipment through a milk assignment, which meant that each month when we shipped our milk, a portion of our check was going to him.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (09:46):

So he basically invested in it?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (09:49):

Correct. Wow. Cause he liked, he liked the business plan, he liked what the numbers looked like, he was confident that we would be able, you know, to pull it off. And, you know, we're sitting here essentially debt free with our bottling operation right now

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (10:06):

At the core of local food is relationships and community and that story just punctuates it so well. You mentioned the pandemic a minute ago. It couldn't have been just you guys who were feeling this pinch. What happened to the other farmers that, you know, in the area?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (10:22):

Well, here in Clinton County, Ohio where our farm is, we have gone from 12 dairies to our farm being the only dairy left in the county. And when it got down to one or two dairies, it just made the cause even greater for us to want to succeed so that there was still a local dairy here in our community.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (10:43):

So it's, it's late 2019. You've got your paperwork submitted, you're waiting for the great state of Ohio to approve you to sell milk and bottles. Right. What happens next?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (10:54):

Well the first thing that we did was we established a relationship with Market Wagon and we started to sell meat, eggs, baked goods because we knew that was the venue we were going to use to sell our milk, but we

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (11:14):

Wait, wait, wait. So you did this on Market Wagon, you started selling on Market Wagon, not milk though. You started selling anything else that you or

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (11:20):

Freezer meat

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (11:21):

Because your milk permit hadn't come in yet.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (11:23):

Correct.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (11:24):

So you just started bootstrapping it.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (11:30):

Yes. Yes. And we're like we need to get our name out there, we need to establish ourselves as a vendor so that when this comes to fruition it's going to be a very easy introduction to our customer base. And, it was even with the pandemic, it was.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (11:47):

Wow. Okay. So when did you sell your first bottle of milk?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (11:53):

That would've been May 4th, 2020.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (11:59):

May 4th, 2020. approval comes in, you can put bottles on Market Wagon.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (12:05):

Yes.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (12:07):

How many head of cattle did you have at the time?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (12:10):

At the time we were milking about 50 head of Ayrshires and Holsteins. And we probably had another 75, 80 fresh young heifers

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (12:21):

Ready to get going. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . have you grown your herd size at all since then?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (12:27):

We have not. Okay. But we barely ship milk out bulk anymore cuz we were still shipping milk through the co-op while we were bottling milk.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (12:38):

So let's talk about that a little bit. I understand what you mean. Co-Op selling wholesale by the pound versus bottling on farm. A lot of our listeners might not understand the difference. So explain the typical dairy that doesn't sell on Market Wagon. What are, you mentioned at the very beginning you were selling by the hundred weight, it's a price set down by the USDA, right? Correct. And it's a commodity price, so Yes. Just like stocks can go up and down, price of milk can go up and down, right?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:08):

Absolutely.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (13:09):

And you're basically told this is how much money you can get for your milk?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:13):

Yes.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (13:15):

And did you say it was 2016 when you were getting the same amount as the eighties?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:21):

Yes. Okay.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (13:23):

So to bottle on farm, you're now the master of your own domain, right?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:32):

Yes.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (13:32):

What does a gallon of milk sell for on Market Wagon?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:37):

On Market Wagon, our regular milk sells for $5. Our flavored milk sells for $6.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (13:46):

So that is a better price than organic milk at the grocery store?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:50):

Yes.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (13:51):

And it's straight off of your farm?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (13:54):

Yes. It is literally grass two days before we put it in the customer's bag.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (14:00):

It is grass. Two days before. Yes. That mama cow turns it into milk and goes right into the customer's bag. I love that. That's a great timeline. That's a good way to think of it. Yes. Now the other thing that our listeners will probably have a hard time translating is hundred weight. You got paid what, 12 to $13 for a hundred pounds of milk?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (14:21):

In 2015 when we took over the operation, we were getting about $26 per hundred weight. Okay. Within eight months we were getting $15 per hundred weight,

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (14:35):

$15 per hundred weight. Mm-Hmm. . Now how many gallons roughly? I know it changes based off of the density of fat and the milk, but roughly how many gallons are in a hundred weight?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (14:45):

So a gallon of milk weighs roughly eight pounds.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (14:51):

A gallon of milk, 8 pounds. So about 12? Yes. About about 12 gallons. Mm-Hmm. I'm not the greatest at math, but that's just over a buck a gallon. Yes. Right.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (15:03):

But we didn't get the whole buck because once take out .

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (15:07):

That's what I wanted to chime into really quick. So I'm going to school in Cincinnati and a lot of the girls I go to school with don't have a lot of agriculture knowledge cuz they just haven't grown up around it. And I brought milk in the other day for them to try and I was explaining prices to them. And I think the biggest misunderstanding of milk prices is at that barrier because for example, when you go to the grocery store, I don't know what's a gallon of milk now, I don't think I've bought one in three years. Like

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (15:42):

I'm sure I would hope not.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (15:45):

We'll say $2, we'll say a gallon of milk at the store is $2. And then you come to our farm and a gallon of milk is $5. And the immediate question is, why is a local product costing more locally than it is at the store? And the biggest thing is there we are getting that entire $5. That $5 goes for our manufacturing, our processing, our advertising, our marketing, our livelihood. Like we get all of that $5, whereas in the store they're stretching $2 to the milk hauler, the farmer, the processing, the packaging, the product, the marketing, the advertising, the hauling the milk, the getting it to the stores, paying the stores. So you're essentially stretching $2 to about 10 different people that are relying on that money. And that is why so many dairy farms were going out of business is because that is just not, that's not an attainable price to keep for today's inflation especially. So the two to $5 difference is because we're actually getting that entire $5 and that is why our farm is still around and we can still offer that product to people.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (16:59):

And you're raising a product that people can trust and they know that, like you mentioned Jackie, it's grass, right? Yes. Not corn or silage. And the way that you're raising the animals, the way that you're treating your livestock, they can come out and see it. They can know who you are. Absolutely. And you said a couple of dollars, Maggie, but that's the commodity milk at a grocery store that's least cost providers. What your milk compares to is premium grass fed or some of the organic lines which are six, seven, $8 a gallon. So apples to apples, it's a competitive price. And I think the other thing that a lot of people may realize if they've heard the term loss leader is that grocery stores may actually be motivated to not even make any money on that milk and sell it for cost or nearly over cost. Because that's what brings people into the store and then they'll sell the other things. That's where they make their profit. Mm-Hmm. , correct? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for expounding on that Maggie. So you've got a lot of different flavors of milk now, right? What all do you offer?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (18:14):

We have chocolate, strawberry mocha, vanilla cake, chocolate peanut butter cookies and cream orange creamsicle. We are getting ready to do eggnog through the rest of the year Yeah. For the holidays. And then we'll have specials here and there, special flavors that we'll do for limited times as well.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (18:38):

Don't forget root beer.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (18:40):

Oh yes. Root beer floats.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (18:41):

Root beer float. Wow. And you mentioned a moment ago, you're milking Ayrshires, is that right?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (18:48):

Ayrshires and Holsteins.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (18:49):

Ayrshires and Holsteins. Okay. Mm-Hmm. . How did you decide on that breed?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (18:57):

Well, my husband grew up on a Holstein farm and so they were very established as premier breeders here in Ohio. And when he and I were married 10 years ago, the girls and I had Ayrshires. So,

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (19:11):

And one Guernsey, we can't forget my little baby Guernsey.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (19:15):

And one Guernsey. So part of the dowry was he had to accept our Ayrshires and here we are today with oh, there's probably 35% of the herd is Ayrshires now.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (19:30):

Hey Maggie, do you still have that Guernsey?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (19:34):

Unfortunately I don't, She was my first animal though. She was a surprise and her name was Maggie. I didn't even name her and she was like my favorite cow ever. She kind of beat me up in the show ring though. Like, I could not control her to save my life. But she is my favorite cow ever. I'll never own a Guernsey ever again because they're not, they're not all there. But Guernseys hold a very special place in my heart because that was my first ever cow.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (20:05):

So you were, did you show in 4H fairs or other show circuits?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (20:10):

So I've shown collectively at the local level, at county fairs, state level, national level and international level. So I've been to Louisville, Kentucky. What else? We go to state fair every year. I've shown at Wisconsin, World Dairy Expo, which is actually going on right now.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (20:33):

Ok

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (20:33):

Then I also show livestock

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (20:34):

Your show animals, are they part of the production herd there at New Horizon Dairy?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (20:39):

Yes. Yeah. Our show girls as we like to call them, are also our working girls. So they do a little bit of everything

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (20:49):

That's really cool. A lot of people might not realize that the show circuit in several species, there's been a divergence between the traits that are needed in the show ring and the traits that actually are meaningful in production. But not so in dairy, right?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (21:07):

Correct.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (21:08):

I showed Jerseys by the way, so,

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (21:10):

Oh gosh.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (21:12):

Hey, hey.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (21:13):

I don't like Jerseys.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (21:15):

You don't like jerseys? All right, well we're just gonna end the show right now. I'm just kidding. Why don't you like Jerseys?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (21:21):

I show livestock too, so I quite literally show everything like lambs, goats, pigs. Like I understand.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (21:31):

We've got Boer-Nubian cross goats on our farm right now and there's a 4H kid nearby. You can't give facial expressions. It's a great face for radio Maggie. Everyone sees how pleased you are with my Boer-Nubian cross. I'm getting insulted by a college kid on my farming practices right

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (21:47):

Nubians freak me out because they don't have ears.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (21:50):

Nubians freak you out cuz their eyes go in different directions

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (21:53):

And they don't have ears. Am I thinking of the right dairy goat?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (21:57):

You're thinking of, no.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (21:58):

No, you are not thinking of the right dairy goat. No, I thought you showed livestock, Maggie.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (22:04):

Not dairy goats. They freak out. They freak me out so much, but I didn't like jerseys because I had a bad experience with one

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (22:12):

I think you had a bad experience with a Guernsey, but she still loved her.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (22:14):

Yeah, because her name was Maggie and she is like the best cow ever.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (22:18):

Oh, well I had a cow named Maggie. I didn't, I just made that up. But I wanted you to love my Jerseys .

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (22:23):

We do Jerseys in the herd.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (22:26):

Jerseys are a really good source of butter fat.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (22:27):

Yes, we do have Jerseys in the herd now.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (22:31):

Yeah. If you want that good rich milk, you gotta have some jerseys in the herd to add that butter fat, right? Yes. Yep.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (22:37):

Correct.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (22:38):

Yeah. So that was a fun little detour to most of our listeners were like, why are they trash talking about cow breeds? I don't understand . This just got weird. But little detour into thinking through the actual mix of your herd and the livestock that's there. You guys are crafting the product for your consumers through genetics, through the animals, right? And care for the animals.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (23:03):

Yes.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (23:04):

Yeah.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (23:06):

We grow, we grow our own feed, we harvest our own hay. We know everything that it took to make that bottle of milk. Yeah. So when a customer asks, we're very confident everything came from the farm and it does give that consumer a peace of mind when they are looking to support local. And you know, food source is important for a lot of people. They wanna know where, where their food is coming from and that it's safe

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (23:38):

Trust in our food supply is at an all time low because most of what you find at the supermarket, there's no way for you to really know how it was grown or where it came from.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (23:47):

Right,

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (23:48):

Right. On Market Wagon, do you get customers asking you questions? I mean, do they engage with you, chat with you?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (23:54):

Yeah. Yes. Well we have to remind the customers, because our milk is non homogenized, which means the cream is still in it. Mm-Hmm. . So if they don't shake it up and they pour that first cup out, it, it looks curdled and then they're like, Oh, I got bad milk. I'm like, well, did you shake it? Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. That, oh this is great. So, you know, we'll get a lot of that. We have a lot of customers that have been customers of ours on Market Wagon since the inception of our bottling.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (24:25):

That is really cool. That is very cool.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (24:28):

We turned it off one week to go to state fair and we had a customer call the hub manager concerned, where are they? Where am I gonna get my milk at? So we don't turn it off anymore. We figure out a way to get it to the hub even if we can't be there.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (24:42):

Yeah. Showing animals isn't nearly as important as feeding people, right, Maggie? Correct.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (24:47):

.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (24:49):

Well, , I'm just kidding. Sometimes I feel like it is more important, but my opinion is different from most.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (25:00):

Well it sounds like on this farm your opinion matters a lot because you get the credit for creating a business that's now feeding thousands of people and keeping the farm alive for another generation. Are you gonna come back and farm Maggie?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (25:13):

Eventually. so my little brother is seven. Yeah. We have a 12 year age gap, so I'm hoping, and Donald's getting a little senile as I'd like to say. So I'm hoping I get to branch off and do my original business plan and I'm hoping to be able to retire from my career by 45. I'm gonna manifest it and then I can come back. Yeah, I saw the face you just made. I'm a very driven person and I feel like, we made vision board at school the other day. I feel like if I really put my mind to it, I can do it.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (25:50):

I believe every word that you just said. At 16 years old, you came up with a business plan to save the family farm. You can retire by 45

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (25:57):

. Yes. So when I retire at 45 I do hope to come back to my roots, but I will say it just depends on timing in life and what I have going on and what my little brother decides that he wants to do. So

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (26:10):

The important thing is that, I have kids as well, and it was a big thing for me to save our family farm. That's the backstory here for me and Market Wagon. But it's not that I know my kids are going to farm cuz they might not. They have their own, just like you, you have your own aspirations, they're their own people, but that they could if they wanted to. Because when I was 18, it wasn't really a choice. If I had wanted to farm as a career, I couldn't have. And so over the last 20 years I've changed that, on our farm and I'm trying to help other farmers just like you do the same thing. So that when your little brother decides what he wants to do when he grows up, that farming is an option and he can choose to stay where his roots are at and make a living. Yeah. That's very cool.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (26:58):

So that gets really interesting for me because I have a few friends that are like, well we'll call this friend Joe, so Joe,

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (27:09):

Don't worry Maggie. I'm pretty sure Joe's not gonna listen to my podcast.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (27:12):

I don't know, I don't know. Joe might. Okay. But Joe came to pick up a pig with me one time and Joe now wants to farm and it's not as easily accessible for people that are like Joe and have not grown up around it and have never done it and have to quite literally learn everything. Whereas there's kids like me, I know some of my friends that didn't get the option to go to college because it's like the farm is here, that's what you're doing. So I'm very thankful that I do have parents that my career path right now is not necessarily being on the farm milking cows. However, I can still help in other aspects. Like I deliver our milk to Findlay market. Like I do other things that aren't directly on the farm, like feeding calves and stuff, but I'm still helping out and my parents are giving me that option. That way I don't feel like I have to stay at the farm. But if I do wanna come back to that at some point in time, that option is there for me. Whereas I have friends who don't necessarily have the option to ever farm and that's what they wanna do. I have friends that do wanna go off and go to nursing school or wanna do other things with their life, but they don't wanna have to lose their farm and they just don't have the option to leave.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (28:30):

Wow. Yeah. Farming is really the last profession that we have that's still passed down from generation to generation. Right?

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (28:36):

Yeah, for sure.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (28:37):

Yeah.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (28:39):

Yeah. You can't just go to school and learn how to be a be a farmer. It's really a trade that you learn from a young age.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (28:47):

Yep. And there's not a whole lot of Indeed postings for farmers

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (28:52):

. Yeah, for sure. And the ones that do that do have their indeed posting and come out. They don't, they don't normally last very long. It's not like how they see it on TikTok. They have the TikTok farming and they're like, Oh yeah, the wind's gonna blow in my hair as I ride horses to go round up cows. But like they don't show getting cow manure on you or getting kicked by an animal or like, when you have to lose an animal. Like they don't, they don't show the not so beautiful stuff.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (29:20):

Yeah. They don't show how people get scared of Nubian goats apparently. I've never seen it

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (29:26):

. They just creep me out a little bit. Just a little bit.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (29:33):

We only have goats because we don't have very good pasture and the goats will eat, you know, scrub land. So

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (29:38):

Right. That's how, that's how Ayrshires are. Ayrshires will eat anything.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (29:42):

They're not as picky

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (29:43):

Nope.

Maggie Mathews (New Horizon Dairy) (29:44):

I will admire your goats from afar. Okay. I will support your goats from a very, very, very large distance.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (29:53):

Okay. Thank you. That makes me feel so good. This has been a really fun conversation. It's great to meet fellow entrepreneurs. It's great to meet and it's always fun to talk to other farmers and hear your story. If people want to continue to follow you and learn more about you online, where can they do that?

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (30:10):

We are on Facebook. Our page is New Horizon Farm and Happy Cows Creamery. And we also have a website, www.happycowsatnewhorizon.com.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (30:22):

Okay. So for everybody listening at home, if you're looking to enjoy the milk that Maggie and Jackie and I have talked about here for the last half an hour, you're gonna find it online on Market Wagon and at farmers markets and under the name of Happy Cows Creamery. And that's what's gonna be on the bottle in your kitchen as you're enjoying that milk. The milk in the bottle came from their family farm that the Bickel family owns called New Horizon Dairy. So not to be confused, but when you find 'em online, New Horizon Dairy is the farm providing the milk that goes into your kitchen under the name Happy Cows Creamery Jackie. Maggie, thanks so much for coming on and just telling your story with us.

Jackie Bickel (New Horizon Dairy) (30:58):

Thank you for the opportunity.

Nick Carter (Host - Market Wagon CEO) (31:06):

Thanks for listening to this episode of More Than a Mile. Be sure to sign up for Market wagon@marketwagon.com or after downloading the Market Wagon app for iOS or Android. Follow us at Market Wagon on Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, and Facebook for stories, recipes, special announcements news, and just digital handshakes from our friendly farming community. If you enjoyed more than a Mile, please rate the podcast and write a review on iTunes, castbox podchaser, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Thank you for continuing to support Local Food.

 

Episode 14

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (00:01):

Today, we're gonna have a conversation with Andrew VanTil of Bowerman Blueberry Farm and Farm Market. They're in West Michigan and if you have tasted blueberries that you bought from Walmart or Kroger, you probably tasted their blueberries at one point or another. So how does a farm who has national distribution in some of the largest retailers in the country, find the value in connecting directly with you on Market Wagon so that you can know their farm, their name, and chat with them so that you can know where your food came from. Happy 4th of July and enjoy the episode.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (00:35):

Welcome to More Than A Mile, a local food podcast from Market Wagon, focused on connecting you to local food through farmer stories from across America. I'm Nick Carter, your host, a farmer and CEO and co-founder of Market Wagon. We are your online farmers market with a mission to enable food producers to thrive in their local and regional markets. Food is so much more than just nutrients and calories. It's actually the fabric that holds us together. And I look forward to crafting a generational quilt of farmer stories and experiences, the victories and challenges of individuals, families, and teams doing their part to help democratize food in America. Thanks for joining me for this episode of More Than A Mile, and thank you for buying local food. It's one critical step in making an investment in food for future generations.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (01:26):

Well, my guest today is Andrew VanTil from Bowerman Blueberries in Michigan. And welcome to the show, Andrew.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (01:34):

Good morning, Nick.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (01:35):

Great to have you here. Thanks for joining. So this is our 4th of July episode. We're coming up on the middle of the summer. Is that holiday, does that have a big spike for you guys or what kind of impact does that have on your farm?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (01:48):

Oh man. 4Th of July. It's really the start of the season for us. You know, we start harvesting blueberries about a week after the 4th of July. But I think it--I think it really signifies the start of summer for a lot of people. You know, it, here in Michigan, it's, you know, cherries become available right around the 4th of July. We start harvesting blueberries about a week after everybody's out of school, everybody's in summer mode and, you know, for us, it really, it kicks off the summer of amazing Michigan produce.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (02:21):

Awesome. And blueberries are your main thing. Is there anything else you guys grow?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (02:26):

So we have dabbled in a lot of things. We have grown strawberries here on the farm. We've grown raspberries on the farm, we've grown pumpkins, you know, it's all been a matter of you know, figuring out how to bring customers in, not only during this time during the 4th of July when things are really busy, but you know, kind of extending that experience out into other parts of the summer. So, you know, we used to grow asparagus to kick things off really early. That was--that was hard. I'm not gonna lie . And like I said, we then moved into, we did some strawberries, we've done some raspberries, you know, we've tried a lot of different things. And what we found is that, you know, everything that you grow, everything that you do on the farm, it requires a lot of passion, you know, and for us, our passion is definitely it's definitely in blueberries. So while we have done a lot of different things and we've allocated a lot of different space on the farm for different fruits right now we're back to what we started with, and that is blueberries.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (03:27):

Sticking with the core.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (03:28):

That's right.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (03:29):

Okay. And one of the things I've heard you say, I wanna get a little bit into your family farming background, and I've heard you say farming is family. Tell me about that phrase, how that works into your colloquial.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (03:43):

Yeah. So we know that better than anyone here at Bowerman's, you know we are truly your quintessential family farm. I--right now Bowerman is run by me, my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law. Mom and dad still live here on the farm. They're pushing their mid seventies and, you know, they're honestly still the hardest workers on the farm. And I, I don't think they're ever they're ever gonna quit which is great because we absolutely love having them around. But it, as, you know, as we've grown, we've taken in even more you know, more family members. So now I have another brother-in-law, who's working here at the farm. We're starting to see our nieces and nephews get to the age where they're working at our farmer's markets. They're working at our restaurants, you know all the way from from doing dishes at the restaurant to helping on the back of the harvester here on the farm. You know, it's, it really is a, a family effort. And as it's been harder to get you know, employees and good, good people on the farm sometimes, you know, families who you have to rely on.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (04:47):

Yeah, for sure. Very reliable. And I wanna get into, you've mentioned restaurants and farmer's markets and I wanna get into how you've diversified your business, but for a second, I kind of wanna just lean in on the farm side. So we've talked about all the different things you've grown in the past. Talk to me a little bit about blueberries. This is a permaculture, right? These are bushes. How long do they last? How long do you--how long before you have to replace the plant? What's that process look like on your farm?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (05:19):

Yeah, so blueberries are a little bit different than a lot of other fruits and trees and that kind of stuff. So our farm was actually started in 1954. The first bushes were planted back in 1954, and some of those bushes are still here today. So...Yeah.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (05:37):

Really? Okay. It's more like an orchard then?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (05:38):

It, it is. Yeah. And it's you know, it's one of the longest standing industries in Michigan in terms of farming. And there are bushes that are here in Michigan that have been alive and been harvested for the last 80 years. You know, it's, as far as we know, as long as you keep up on, you know, proper nutrition on trimming the bushes and you know, harvesting 'em and that kind of stuff. As far as we know blueberry plants will continue to produce for as long as you take care of 'em, it's not like some other crops where, you know, after 10 or 15 years, you have to rip the plant out and kind of redo it. So definitely a permaculture here.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (06:16):

Fascinating, fascinating. And you know, I've got a small farm in Indy. We've tried to diversify a lot of different things. One of the things we've tried and not done very well with here has been berries. More--we tried blueberries, the deer got all of them. We've tried raspberries and blackberries and we get some, but I think there's a difference between our climate and yours. Can you talk about why Michigan just produces so much in the berry crop and so much better produce?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (06:45):

? Yeah. Well, and of course I'm gonna be a little bit biased. I'm gonna say the best blueberries definitely come from West Michigan. But there's a lot, there's a lot of different factors that, that go into that. You know, I think the reason why the industry was kind of started here blueberries are--blueberries have an affinity to sandy acidic soil. And so when you're on the lake shore of West Michigan that's what we have here. We have sandy acidic soil. And so blueberries naturally thrive in the soil here. And then on top of that, we have the climate, you know, so blueberries take a lot of chill hours during the winter. So there are some varieties that are grown in Mexico and Peru, and that kind of stuff that are kind of an all season crop. They can grow them and they can harvest them at any time.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (07:30):

But the reason that they've been so successful in Michigan is because the blueberry plant naturally needs to go into a dormancy period. It needs to hibernate for a little bit. And so in Michigan we get those chill hours. We get that winter and then it really needs an even climate. So one of the things that the lake does for us is it helps to moderate that climate a little bit, you know, instead of the big temperature swings if it's really hot out, generally, the lake is a little bit cooler and we're getting a nice full breeze, you know, off the lake. It also delays our crop a little bit. So, you know, here in Michigan when you're closer to the lake shore you're growing degree days and the things that that make your bush ready and mature are a little bit pushed back the closer you are to the lake. And we really are a mile and a half off the lake shore. We're in this perfect storm of climate and amazing soil. And then--and you know, bush blueberries are natural here in the Northern Michigan.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (08:32):

Yeah. I'll keep trying to get berries to grow on our little Central Indiana farm here mainly for our own kids to have to go out and pick through some thorns. It builds character--but I'm still gonna be buying berries from you guys for sure. Because we can't get the blueberries to grow here and there's just a difference in quality--it is appreciable.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (08:54):

Well, and you mentioned of struggling to get any with the deer and stuff. And I get customers every year that come and buy blueberry bushes from the farm and they're like, oh, I'm gonna set up, you know, two or three in my front yard and I'm gonna harvest some blueberries off of it. And you know, I say, well, honestly the, I hope you're there. I hope you're getting 'em for looks because you're gonna fight with the birds. You're gonna fight with the deer. And I think the only reason that we end up with any bit of a crop is just because we have so many that the birds and the deer leave full.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (09:22):

Yeah. I've heard that you have to just plant enough--you can't try and keep the birds and deer away, you just have to plan enough that they get full and you still have something to harvest.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (09:29):

Essentially, yeah.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (09:31):

Really? We, yeah, we fight with the deer a lot. We're in a, kind of an urban forest area. So deer and raccoons. Do you do any sweet corn?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (09:42):

We don't. Nope, no traditional row crops. We don't do sweet corn or soybeans or anything like that. 100% blueberries and specialty crops.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (09:50):

Cool. Sweet corn is something that raccoon can smell them ripening and it is infuriating . All right. So you said blueberries, it sounds like that's the staple--kind of that's the fuel that drives everything. Are there any other crops, does the, the fall comes along that you're gonna be harvesting? Is there any other specialty crops that you do have there that are--that you're picking?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (10:14):

You know, for the last couple years we've put a couple acre plot of pumpkins in, and again, this is that's really to kind of enhance and extend that customer experience, you know, to let them come in the fall. We make donuts at our farm market. We do a, you know, like sometimes we'll do a, U-pick pumpkin thing or, you know, just be, be that hub for people to come and get their fall decor, and to, you know, still be able to really visit the farm. And like I said, get some bakery items, get some ice cream, you know, having a family experience.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (10:49):

So we obviously love delivering your food all over the Indiana area and Michigan to customer's doorsteps. We have the online farmer's market on Market Wagon, but sounds like there is quite an experience for the customer to come to your farm. Talk about all the things that if somebody wants to hear this podcast and--in addition to ordering from you on Market Wagon regularly--make a day trip out of it, what would they experience?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (11:16):

Well. So our farm has been growing over the last couple of years and and so we put a farmer's market here on site that has has a full bakery. So we specialize obviously in blueberry donuts. That's one of our number one products, you know, it's kind of what has put us on the map and made us famous. We put a lot of care and effort into those things. But we've also, I mean, we started making, we make our own pies from scratch. We do things like muffins and breads and, you know, we're--with the addition of the restaurant--we've started doing things like handmade cheesecakes and, you know, different kinds of hand pies and that kind of stuff. But when you come to the farm, you get to not only obviously see the agriculture in its true form, you get to come.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (12:00):

And we have you pick available on the farm. You can bring your family here. You can, you can pick as many blueberries as you want to, to take home with you. We have a full ice cream shop here at the farm. We have a retail store. We do events, you know you know, you talk, we talked a little bit about July fourth. We do a summer harvest celebration pretty shortly after that, you know, we bring face painters and, you know, all sorts of different bouncy house and different activities here to the farm because really, you know, we're in the business of making memories and making traditions, you know, so that, that farm experience, that agritourism that has been growing in the last 10 years we've really embraced that and we're looking ahead to what the next step in that is. And that, you know, sometimes we host a lot of school events and school field trips and that kind of stuff. And I could definitely see us in the future, even hosting things like corporate events and potentially weddings and, you know, like there are so many things that are on the docket to really look at in the future.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (13:04):

That's awesome. That's really cool. I'm gonna have to make a trip up there. It's only a couple of hours. Yeah. So talk to me about off farm. You, you've also gotten, you know, your blueberries are in other bakeries.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (13:17):

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as a, as a small family farm one of the things that we have to do is we have to carve out a niche in this, in this huge, you know, industrial complex of a, of a produce market. And for us, that niche has been quality. You know, we're, we're a hundred acre blueberry farm which it, you know, it's big, but at the same time, it it's it's very small compared to a lot of the farms that are out there. And so one of the things that we've done to carve out that niche for ourself has been to hyper-specialize in quality. You know one of the things that Market Wagon provides for us is just an amazing logistics network. You know, it allows us to take orders from people all week long.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (14:00):

And the day before we are ready to bring those blueberries down to Indy or to any one of the different hubs for Market Wagon we're out there harvesting those berries that day, you know, so we harvest 'em, we get 'em in the cooler that night. And then the next morning we get 'em packaged into, you know, whether it's a pint or a box that is getting shipped out. And so it's--Market Wagon has been able to reduce the amount of time that it takes to go from field to somebody's fridge. And that's key. I mean, blueberries are a perishable product. They have a great shelf life, but you know, the quicker that we can get 'em into people's hands, the better quality of a product that they're gonna have as well, because we can let those blueberries sit on the bushes a little bit longer, develop a little bit more sugars, get a little bit of that better flavor profile, you know, compared to maybe some other traditional sales methods where, you know, we have to pick 'em a little more ahead of time because we're shipping 'em to Texas and they're gonna be, you know, in a cooler for a week or something.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (15:01):

And if you've gotta put 'em in a cooler for a week that you kind of need to keep them from getting too ripe, right? Cause ripe fruit is tender fruit and doesn't ship as well.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (15:13):

Absolutely. And and not only is it tender, but blueberries specifically are very finicky. I mean, you're dealing with something that, you know, you could have anywhere from 200 to a thousand of them in a pound, you know, compare that to something like apples, where a pound of apples, you might have one apple , you know, and it's, it's really easy. That's a big apple to, yeah. It's easy to do quality control on a single apple, but when you're, when you're doing quality control on a thousand blueberries you know, it's, it's a lot, it's a lot harder. And so our, our machinery, our equipment is very specialized you know, in dealing with that and keeping quality up it's, it's a constant struggle, you know, especially with, with weather, with all the different, you know, different things that can affect quality. It's our job really to, to maintain that. And part of that is maintaining cold chain on the way to the customer and, you know, picking the fruit when it's, when it's at its, you know, peak ripeness, but also, you know, it can withstand the, the little bit of, of bumping that it's gonna take from getting picked.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (16:15):

So, yeah. Tell me, gimme a picture. It was when I think when the average customer thinks of picking blueberries, they see you reaching your hand into the bush and grabbing a blueberry fruit off of there. I'm imagining this is probably a little bit more sophisticated than that. Is it a shaking method with a conveyor underneath or what's the pick method look like?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (16:34):

So we have several different ones. We do machine harvest some stuff but everything that goes to our retail outlets, anything that goes to Market Wagon or goes to our own farmer's market or anything like that that's all gonna be handpicked fruit and the reason...yeah. The reason for that is quality is so much higher in handpicked fruit. Because like you described, we have machines that can pick blueberries and they go over top of the bush, they shake the bush fairly violently and those blueberries--as they fall onto the conveyor--they tend to get a little bit bruised.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (17:06):

So that's gonna go into my blueberry pancakes, my blueberry donuts?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (17:09):

Correct. So the majority, I would say 99% of the fruit that we machine harvest goes into our frozen line. So we wash them--the berries--immediately. We freeze them immediately before any of the bruising can really take effect on the fruit. And that's what goes into the five pound bags and the two pound bags of frozen.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (17:28):

But if a, if a listeners, you know, here's this episode it's gonna drop around July 4th happy Independence Day. And, they order Bowerman Blueberries on Market Wagon and get 'em delivered. Those were hand picked for quality and freshness.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (17:43):

100%, 100% of our retail blueberries are hand picked and that's,

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (17:47):

I'm blown away.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (17:48):

That is a challenge in itself. I will tell you, I mean, with a hundred acres of blueberries, we will take on anywhere from 60 to 110 hand pickers in a year to accommodate getting that volume off.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (18:04):

Wow. That's awesome. That's really cool. And, and it sounds like your parents are the hardest workers in that crew, right?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (18:14):

Yeah. Again, they come from a different generation and you know, dad, when they, when they first started the farm, it was a struggle. And the blueberry industry wasn't well established and you know, they didn't have the logistics methods that we have today. So, I mean, for him, it was--it was growing blueberries during the day, and then it was packing them into a semi and driving them to Detroit at night. It was--and they did all that themselves. You know, we've grown today to be able to specialize in our different roles here on the farm. But I mean, one of the things that I love about being a farmer is that you really learn every different trade aspect, you know, being a farmer, Nick, and I'm sure, you know, this, it makes you become a plumber and an electrician and a builder, and, you know, and a social media marketer and a, you know, logistics, you know, person. I, I mean, there's just so many different

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (19:06):

Facets and a soil scientist too, right?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (19:09):

Oh yeah. Oh man. Absolutely.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (19:11):

Yep. Test the pH levels and figure out how to amend. Oh yeah. Really cool. And what a Testament to the hustle and the entrepreneurial mindset of that last generation. I mean, like you said, picking by hand, building a market, driving at night to Detroit to get it going. And the legacy is here. It's what you've built today. Just a curious question. So your name is Andrew VanTil--where's Bowerman. Where does that fall in the family tree?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (19:36):

Oh man. Bowerman. Bowerman lives with my wife. So I married into the family.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (19:41):

I see.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (19:42):

Oh yeah. And, you know, back when I first joined the farm, which was a little over 10 years ago, it was really more about hiring people that they could trust, you know, it was a growing...

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (19:53):

...and they trusted their son-in-law.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (19:56):

Yeah. Believe it or not, believe it or not, you know, marrying the daughter is one thing, but coming to work on the farm over,

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (20:02):

But taking the blueberry farm over

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (20:03):

that? Yeah. That's a whole 'nother ball game.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (20:06):

A whole 'nother set of vows, right?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (20:07):

Yeah. Oh, trust me, dad was very protective of his daughter, but you wanna talk about being protective of the farm that was a whole nother hurdle to jump .

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (20:17):

Well, he's had those, he's had those plants since 1954, so...

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (20:20):

That's right, exactly.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (20:21):

Yeah.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (20:22):

So, no, but it's you know, I joined the farm about 10 years ago, back then it was a growing industry and a growing farm. And so they needed people that they could trust. And I came from a background of sales and production and marketing. And so that's kind of what I jumped into when I came here. I take care of most of our our sales channels. So things like Market Wagon, things like retail markets and restaurants and stuff, but then also our more, you know, national markets. So we ship our blueberries to all the Piggly Wigglys and the Walmarts and the Krogers of the world all over the country.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (21:01):

Wow. And so that's a direct relationship that doesn't go through, like a produce distributor or anything like that.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (21:06):

We do have a marketing company that we work with that helps us to distribute because again the logistics--what you do on your side of things, Nick--it still amazes me to this day because the logistics side of things, it's a struggle, you know? And I mean, even with rising gas prices nowadays, it's getting trucks to deliver. That's a talent in itself.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (21:29):

So it's, it's a fun challenge. And it's something that we know it's a challenge for farms. You know, you have been able, kudos you guys, to figure out how to be able to get distribution at a scale to, like you said, Krogers and Walmarts. But that direct to consumer relationship is really challenging because really the, the last mile, what we call the last mile distribution in Walmart, or in Kroger is the customer driving their car to the parking lot and putting a cart in their hands and pushing it down the aisle and for us to get it to their doorstep, to do that for them or for a farm to be able to do that, it's really challenging. So we've been excited to be able to bring that solution to farms like yours. And it's a great partnership. We love having you guys on board.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (22:09):

Yeah. And that's definitely our favorite relationship to nurture, you know, for the farmer it is best to go direct to the consumer. And so, you know, whether that be through our farmer's market here on site or restaurant or an offsite farmer's market, or a sales channel like Market Wagon, you know, the best relationship and interaction that a farmer can have is direct to the consumer. And that's the best relationship a consumer can have too, because they then know where their food is coming from and the story behind it. You know, I think, I think the general consumer nowadays is far more interested in where's my, where's my food coming from, who's growing it? And do they care about what they're doing? You know, I mean, I have a four year old daughter that comes to the farm and, you know, she walks right up to a blueberry bush and that's what she wants to eat right off the bush. And so, you know, creating safe tasty produce is what we're passionate about. And I think it's what the people who shop on Market Wagon and the people who are coming to the farm to buy produce and have that experience--that's the type of customer they are. They are far more informed about what they're getting and also just want to develop that relationship.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (23:22):

Yeah. And it's hard to get that relationship or to know, you know, because the shopper going down the aisle at a Walmart, you know, they're gonna feed that to their four year old daughter too, but there's an increasing I guess trepidation around, is this safe? What was put on it? What are the chemicals on this blueberry? And to know that we're sitting here talking to the guy who grows them and his daughter eats them right off the bush. And that means a lot. It means a lot to the people who can know that.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (23:49):

Absolutely. And one of the cool things that Market Wagon offers is it offers that direct communication channel from the consumer, right to the farmer.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (23:58):

So do you get a lot of questions that way? I mean, I know we have a chat right on our website, so customers can just hit you up. Do they light you up a lot?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (24:04):

Absolutely. And thankfully I have a very dedicated team of people that are there to answer those questions, you know? And like we talked about how the average consumer is more informed. I I'm amazed at some of the questions that I get from people. You know, some of the people want to really know the intricacies of farming and of where again, where their produce comes from and the different farming methods that we use. You know, because again, we take a lot of steps to make sure that our food is safe, that our food is tasty, you know? And and that it's a very involved process that people want to feel like they're a part of.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (24:43):

Very cool. Well, thank you for investing the time to answer those questions, to, you know, entertain that relationship and entertain those questions and the curiosities of the consumers, because it makes--that's what makes the experience on Market Wagon worthwhile. So thank you.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (24:58):

Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We love it. We actually develop great relationships with with customers.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (25:06):

Very cool. Well, this has been a really fun conversation. I appreciate you sharing your time with us. Is there, other than on Market Wagon, we've talked extensively that people can find you online at Market Wagon, they can chat with you on Market Wagon. Where else can people find Bowerman Blueberries and connect with you?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (25:21):

Oh man. Well, my, my first response to that is--has got to be come to Michigan, you know, come to Michigan. It's, it's such a beautiful state, you know, and we're, we're positioned, like I said, we're about a mile and a half from the lake shore. You can't find a more beautiful town and a more beautiful area--it really is blueberry country around here. You know, if you drive right down the road from me, you're just gonna see acres and acres of blueberries. But we have a lot of different ways that people can find us. So of course, come to Michigan, come see our farm, come pick blueberries directly from the bush, come experience, you know, all the different things that we have to offer. We did just open up a restaurant in downtown Holland, Michigan.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (26:03):

Again, it's an amazing cafe experience. It's beautiful windows wide open. We do breakfast and lunch there, and again, a full bakery and ice cream and all that kind of stuff. Market Wagon is gonna be the most convenient. I'll be honest. You know when you taste our products, you fall in love with them. The easiest way to get them to your front door is gonna be via Market Wagon. You know, it allows us to really spread that net out and reach customers that are in places that we never would've had the opportunity. So I have customers that vacation here in Holland, Michigan, and they fall in love with our products and I find out where they're from and I'm like, 'Hey, you're within a Market Wagon distribution network. So here's where you can find us--jump online, jump on Market Wagon. You know, we can deliver our products right to your door.'

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (26:52):

I love to hear that.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (26:53):

And we also I did mention that we're nationally sold in many different grocery stores. And that goes through our marketer who's North Bay Produce. And again, very passionate people about what they do. Amazing company that allows us to distribute our products all over the country. And again, that's another label that is a very safe and very trustworthy name in the grocery store.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (27:19):

So if we're at a supermarket and we see North Bay Produce, we can know one of the farms that they are putting into those clamshells is from you and others that you know.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (27:31):

Yup, exactly. There's about 11 other Michigan farmers and you know, we're all very close knit. We all help each other. We all keep each other in check and hold each other accountable. And so, yeah, it's a great network.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (27:43):

It's a tight community. Farming is a small community. And I think that in and of itself, the relationship that happens between farmers is also why it's just so relational between farmers and then the consumers that are, that are drinking or that are eating the food you grow. Hey, I've got one more silly question and maybe you'll laugh at me and tell me no. Any chance that there's gonna be a blueberry wine in the future?

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (28:08):

So we actually developed a blueberry wine last year.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (28:12):

No way!

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (28:13):

We did. Yeah. So...

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (28:15):

This was not planned. I--you didn't feed me this question.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (28:19):

No, no, I sure didn't so that's been something that's been on our radar for a long time, and I will tell you that, you know, the licensing process for that, you know, whether it's just to sell a bottle of wine that you created or to have somebody be able to enjoy it on site. That's a--it's a long process and it's very, very involved. And we went, we went through that process at our farm market last year. We had a blueberry wine developed, again, it blew me away. So we work with a lot of different, amazing companies. And when you think blueberry wine, well, I mean, the first thing that comes to your mind is like, oh, it's gonna be a very sweet dessert wine. It's gonna be, you know, yeah...

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (28:53):

Fruit forward.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (28:54):

Yeah, absolutely. And what we developed was a much darker red wine. It definitely has the blueberry notes right up front. It's definitely got an inherent sweetness. But it's a much more traditional red wine and it has, and it finishes like a red wine. And it's been, it's been extremely popular. We've been selling it like crazy over the last year. And we're definitely in the process right now of getting our license for our restaurant downtown, because we believe that, you know, people are gonna want to come and enjoy a slice of pie and a glass of wine at our restaurant, you know.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (29:33):

Well, we have been experimenting as well. And I'll have to check into again, the regulations are a huge hurdle, but we are now delivering Indiana wine on Market Wagon. We had to go through a lot of permitting, a lot of processes, and even change some of our own tech and processes to fit the regulations. Of course we have to check ID and all that stuff. But the other infuriating part about those regulations that they're different state by state. So we will have to start the whole process over again in Michigan, but now I'm motivated. So that's our next project. We're gonna go and check out what the rules are in Michigan, and we're gonna roll out our wine delivery. You heard it here, first folks, we're gonna do it in Michigan. Next. We're gonna figure out to get it done. And first product on the market's gonna be Bowerman Blueberry wine.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (30:21):

Oh, that's awesome. I can't wait. My wife has done several of the, like the mail order wine programs, where they send you a couple different wines each month to try. But if we had the ability for her to jump on Market Wagon and pull them from, you know, different farmers like ourselves, people that are again putting a lot of passion and creativity into what they're doing--I think that's gonna go over really well. I know, I'm also a customer of Market Wagon. I'm not only a vendor but I'm a customer. And my wife more specifically does most of the shopping and does a lot of it from home now--I think is a pretty, you know, common trend. But man, I'm, excited about the wine delivery. That's an awesome thing. If we can, if we can get over the regulation hurdles you know, for some reason America has a little bit of a history with bringing alcohol across state borders. There was something, you know, like prohibition...

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (31:16):

Something roughly a hundred years ago.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (31:17):

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (31:18):

Isn't that weird how 100 years ago that problem is still persisting today.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (31:23):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Even when getting our own liquor license there's some very some very archaic language in there that you're like, 'what?' What, no, we're not gonna set up a backyard, moon shine still, what is this?

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (31:37):

Check the box. Sign the--yes. We are not using old car radiators in any of our production process. That's for those of you who don't know that was a moon shine process. Alright. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for sharing just a little bit of your time and your story about Bowman Blueberries with us. It's so great to hear about a multi-generation family business that is succeeding as your your farm is. I mean, congratulations on having distribution through some of the nation's largest retailers. That's incredible. And yet also taking the time to make sure you're building direct relationships with customers who want to know you personally on Market Wagon. So thank you so much, Andrew. I really appreciate it.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (32:22):

Absolutely. And, Nick, thanks for offering up such an amazing, amazing, you know, network for us to be able to connect directly with those consumers. You know, I can't tell you though how much the, the industry is changing. And, you know, when I, I look to, I look at people like you, who, you know, again, have an entrepreneurial type of soul that really wanna, you know, started with a family farm and want to reach out to those consumers directly. I mean, what you've taken your background and you know, help made it into Market Wagon and what it is today. And we're all using our different backgrounds to really kind of spread out, spread our wings and find different, avenues, different sales channels, different, you know, ways to market to the consumer and different ways to interact with them. So, you know, I really appreciate people like you in the industry. And I think it's really the next generation of farmers and what it's gonna take to to grow in this climate.

Nick Carter - Host (Market Wagon) (33:20):

Thanks, Andrew. Thanks for joining us.

Andrew VanTil (Bowerman Blueberries Farm Market) (33:22):

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Nick.

Show Description: Nick Carter is the Co-Founder and CEO of Market Wagon, an online marketplace that connects food consumers directly with local farmers and artisans. Nick started his first business at the age of 16. In the two decades since then, he has founded or co-founded over half-a-dozen companies in technology and food sectors. He’s a fourth-generation Indiana farmer passionate about using innovation to re-connect “Agri” and “Culture." Nick is also the author of “More than a Mile: What America Needs from Local Food," as well as the host of his podcast "More Than a Mile." In this interview, Nick talks about the concept behind his business, as well as the alternative solution it provides for farmers and consumers. Nick also dives into the leadership lessons he has learned along the way. To learn more about Nick and his business, you can visit the website at marketwagon.com Show Highlights: 4:30-12:00: Nick talks about his background, the mission behind his business, and what growing up on a farm taught him about being an entrepreneur. 12:00-21:00: As a serial entrepreneur, Nick discusses the key lessons he learned from his previous endeavors, how he taught himself software engineering, and how he poured that into eCommerce. 21:00-30:00: Nick explains Market Wagon's solution for the "farm-to-grocery" process, how he is building a network of farmers and online vendors, and his company's marketing strategy. 30:00-41:00: We ask Nick about the scaling process, the key leaders he partnered with, and what it was like to write the technology behind Market Wagon. 41:00-54:30: Nick dives into the biggest hurdles when starting Market Wagon, his thoughts on alternative ways to farm, keeping incentives high for farmers, and regenerative agriculture. 54:30-1:01:30: Nick talks about how the farmer is the mediator between you and the food, and how Market Wagon is strengthening that bond. 1:01:30-1:14:30: Nick talks about his motivation to write his book and how he wants to be remembered.