Explore " visitors" with insightful episodes like "Gremlins - Visitors from the Other Realm", "Guest Follow-up with Daniel Davidson", "Oumuamua", "The Cube Photo" and "What your visitors really think about pre-booking. With Jon Young, Director - BVA BDRC" from podcasts like ""The Triangulum", "Not the Pastor", "Are UFO Real?", "Are UFO Real?" and "Skip the Queue"" and more!
In 2002 Bill Vaile saw a creature scurry about in his house. This would be the beginning of his experience with other worldly creatures plaguing his home. Join us as we recount the story of Bill Vaile. We'll discuss the details of his story and outline the information that has led us to conclude that these creatures are Gremlins and they enter his home through a portal in his bedroom closet.
Support the show
Daniel Davidson, the pastor at Hillview Baptist Church, talks about the system for guest follow-up at Hillview.
Join the conversation on our Facebook page
Email us at notthepastorpodcast@gmail.com
Find more from Nathan Auxer at nathanauxer.com
Music:
Inspiring Advertising by Rafael Krux
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/5515-inspiring-advertising-
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Join the conversation on our Facebook page.
Email us at notthepastorpodcast@gmail.com
Music:
Inspiring Advertising by Rafael Krux
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/5515-inspiring-advertising-
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0
Batman Die Cut Mylar Balloon (Each) - Party Supplies:
Popular Misinformation:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/popular-misinformation/
Is leaked Pentagon UFO a 'Batman' balloon?:
https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/342097/is-leaked-pentagon-ufo-a-batman-balloon
ʻOumuamua (wikipedia):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua
Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth:
Did an Alien Life-Form Do a Drive-By of Our Solar System in 2017?:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/26/books/review/extraterrestrial-avi-loeb.html
OUMUAMUA ‘ALIEN PROBE’ MAY BE THE WAY TO SEARCH FOR LIFE, ACCORDING TO HARVARD ASTROPHYSICIST:
https://thedebrief.org/oumuamua-the-way-to-search-for-life-according-to-harvard-astrophysicist/
Avi Loeb: Aliens, Black Holes, and the Mystery of the Oumuamua | Lex Fridman Podcast #154:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plcc6E-E1uU
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks for listening!
FAST MOVERS’ AND TRANSMEDIUM VEHICLES – THE PENTAGON’S UNIDENTIFIED AERIAL PHENOMENA TASK FORCE:
https://thedebrief.org/fast-movers-and-transmedium-vehicles-the-pentagons-uap-task-force/
Somewhere in the Skies: 'Fast Movers', Transmedium Vehicles, and the Pentagon UAP Task Force:
https://play.acast.com/s/somewhere-in-the-skies/fastmovers-transmediumvehicles-andthepentagonuaptaskforce
LEAKED PHOTO SURFACES OF PURPORTED UNIDENTIFIED AERIAL PHENOMENA:
https://thedebrief.org/leaked-photo-surfaces-of-purported-unidentified-aerial-phenomena/
Leaked UFO Pentagon photo: Mysterious object that US intelligence admits could be ‘alien':
Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready:
COVID-19 bill started a 180-day countdown for UFO disclosures:
https://nypost.com/2020/12/29/covid-19-bill-started-a-180-day-countdown-for-ufo-disclosures/
UAP Task Force to Provide Report to Senate Intelligence Committee:
https://thedebrief.org/uap-task-force-set-in-motion-with-passage-of-intelligence-authorization-act/
CIA releases UFO ‘Black Vault’ documents early: How to see them online:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cia-releases-ufo-black-vault-documents-early-how-to-see-them-online
UFOs: The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Collection:
https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/ufos-the-central-intelligence-agency-cia-collection/
UFO documents released by CIA are 'real-life X-Files,' expert says:
https://www.foxnews.com/science/cia-release-ufo-documents-real-life-x-files
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks for listening!
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.
Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor Numbers
If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.
Competition ends March 31st 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter.
Show references:
Jon Young is Director of BVA-BDRC. With over a decade in the Culture, Tourism and Leisure. Author of Holiday Trends since 2012 and working across a range of quantitative and qualitative methodologies.
www.linkedin.com/in/jon-young-9451a92a/
https://hcontent.bva-bdrc.com/clearsight
Transcription:
Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world.
In today's episode, I speak with Jon Young, Director at BVA BDRC, an award-winning international consumer insight consultancy.
We discuss their exciting new research around pre-booking and what the drawbacks to this are in the eyes of the visitor. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.
Kelly Molson: Jon, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. It's really lovely to see you again.
Jon Young: Yeah, you too. And yeah, I've been listening for quite a while now. So it's an honor to actually to be on here as well. I think it's got a great role to play for the industry. So thank you as well for doing it.
Kelly Molson: Aww, Jon, thank you. That's super kind of you, right? Don't be too nice to me yet because you know that we're going to go into our icebreaker questions.
Jon Young: Yeah. Which I'm a bit worried about.
Kelly Molson: Don't be worried. I think I've been quite kind to you, Jon. So I want to know what would you rather give up, your smartphone or your computer?
Jon Young: I would say my smartphone definitely because I'm always trying to spend less time on it and I think that'd be a great way of doing that. I have actually read stories of people who've done it, but they've never sort of followed it through. But yeah, so definitely the smartphone.
Kelly Molson: What do you do to try and reduce your screen time? Do you lock it in a drawer in the evenings or-?
Jon Young: I've put it into a separate room. I've tried that. What else have I done? You can set your settings so it's grayscale. And apparently, that sort of deactivates the colors in some of your apps, which makes them less appealing. I've actually tried quite a lot and miserably failed. I've read loads of books about that sort of thing, but I'm still sort of scrolling through a tad at night and it's next to my bed at night as well. So I've failed at that. So if you could take it away from me, I'm sure my wife would say thank you as well if you do that.
Kelly Molson: Okay. I don't know if I can help you with that because I'm the world's worst. It's difficult, isn't it? Because I think I like to engage with people. We speak on Twitter every now and again. And I think that the Twitter platform and LinkedIn for me-
Jon Young: Yeah. Actually, that is something I've done. So I can't access Twitter on my phone now, is just through my laptop. So that has helped. But you end up just wheeling that out then at night.
Kelly Molson: I'll just get my laptop out and check.
Jon Young: Yeah, check something. Yeah.
Kelly Molson: Okay. All right. Next one, what was your least favorite food as a child? And do you still hate it or do you love it now?
Jon Young: Mushrooms. I remember quite clearly when I was about five years old, my dad tried to feed me a mushroom. I think he thought that this would be a good way to get me to like them. And I hated them and he chose to... He actually physically puts it in my mouth and I bit his finger. And he didn't talk to me for a while. He had a few stern words. I remember it really clearly. And my wife, she's Polish and they love going mushroom picking whenever we're in Poland. It's like quite a regular pastime. So they go into the woods and they go mushroom picking and they really, really try to get me to like them. But I think I read that if you eat something five times, then you will like it. So maybe I just need to do that, but I still hate it.
Kelly Molson: So you still hate them. You're still a mushroom hater. I think that's quite common, isn't it? Mushrooms are a bit of... They're a bit marmite for people, aren't they?
Jon Young: Yeah. I like marmite, but mushrooms, no, unfortunately, but it's an ambition to like them.
Kelly Molson: To like mushrooms?
Jon Young: Yeah. That's what lockdown does. You have these weird ambitions.
Kelly Molson: I love that. It's such a strange goal, Jon. Okay.
Jon Young: Well, I'm full of them.
Kelly Molson: All right. Well, let's go to the unpopular opinion. So tell me something that you believe to be true that hardly anybody agrees with you on.
Jon Young: So I struggle with this. So I've oscillated between going really superficial to really deep. So I've ended up with something a little bit superficial, but so my unpopular opinion is that I really don't enjoy Bake Off or Strictly. Just not for me. And I've tried really hard to like both, but I just can't get excited about people baking on TV or dancing. And I like doing both. And I know the masive tube layer or something like that, the dance, and the Soggy Bottom and all that. I can hold a conversation. It's almost like people who don't like football, but they can kind of hold that kitchen conversation.
Kelly Molson: You've got the cultural reference down.
Jon Young: Yeah, absolutely.
Kelly Molson: But you're not down with the shows.
Jon Young: But it's a no, unfortunately.
Kelly Molson: I'm kind of feeling you on this one because if it's on, if Bake Off's on, I'd watch it, but I'm not a massive baker. So I don't have a huge kind of interest in it. And also, I thought I would love Strictly. I used to tap dance when I was a kid.
Jon Young: All right. Okay.
Kelly Molson: But I was really big into tap dancing and I thought I'd love it. Just don't love it. I feel like we're taking one for the team there, Jon, because I've agreed with you on this. And I think we're going to get some Twitter backlash.
Jon Young: Backlash, yeah.
Kelly Molson: Sorry, everyone. But thank you for that, Jon.
Jon Young: No worries.
Kelly Molson: So Jon, you are Director of the BVA BDRC.
Jon Young: Yes.
Kelly Molson: It's also a name that I have gotten wrong about four million times on this podcast.
Jon Young: I know. It's a nightmare.
Kelly Molson: Something needs to be done about this, but tell us a little bit about what you're doing.
Jon Young: So with the name, I think it was the brainchild of the founders about 25, maybe 30 years ago now. And they just came up with a name, Business Development Research Consultants, and there were just two of them and it got shortened. And now here we are. There's about a hundred of us and we're stuck with it, but we've got bought by BVA, which didn't help. That's where that comes from. It wasn't some kind of genius branding idea. But yeah. So as a company, we've got an international presence, so we've got offices around the world, but we are so split up into divisions. So we've got two divisions in our London office. So we've got this of the commercial team and that they work with the banks and media. So ITV, Channel 4, et cetera.
Jon Young: And then we've got our division, which we call On The Move. And the teamwork in, we sort of specialise with attractions and tourist boards. So I've been there 11 years now. And throughout that time, I've worked pretty much exclusively with visitor attractions and tourist boards, so the likes of Visit Britain, Visit Wales, Visit Scotland and a few overseas as well. So we do market research and we do the whole spectrum really. So it can be anything from focus groups to one-on-one depth interviews, to online surveys. So we do audience segmentation, membership work, pricing, pretty much anything that involves trying to understand what the public thinks.
Jon Young: And yeah, we work with loads and loads of brilliant attractions. It's a wonderful sector to work in as I'm sure you know, Kelly. So we work with the little museums and some of the large nationals as well. We run the ALVA Benchmarking Survey. So this is a survey that is conducted a few times a year amongst visitors to around 80 different attractions across the UK. And we then sort of benchmark each attraction against the others just to understand the visitor experience, which marketing they've used, their profile, and a load of other things as well. So it's quite broad, but yeah, it means we work with lots of great organizations.
Kelly Molson: It's incredibly useful as well, the things that you provide. And I think one of the ways that we met was through the Visitor Experience Forum.
Jon Young: That's right.
Kelly Molson: We both spoke on one of their webinars, didn't we?
Jon Young: Yeah.
Kelly Molson: And I had become aware of what you guys do at the BVA BDRC because of the consumer sentiment tracker that you've been doing all the way through lockdown, which was something you were... It was something that you did off your own back. So tell us a little bit about it because it was incredibly useful for us as a kind of suppliers to the industry, but it must have been a fantastic resource for the sector itself.
Jon Young: Yeah, it was really great. So it was actually the brainchild of my colleague, Thomas Folque. I'll give him a name check there because it was his idea back in, I think, late March. And obviously, a lot of our work got canceled. We work with a lot of hotels as well. So that's the other team in our division. And so he just felt it'd be good to have some sort of tracker and then we also discussed it and it grew from there. And there's, I guess, a dual motivation just like any sort of content marketing. It did obviously paint us in a good light. It was a good way to sort of stay in contact with organizations that we worked with, but also to make new contacts. And I think I spoke on about 10 different webinars in the first two months and one of which I met you yourself.
Jon Young: But it was also really good for us to help out as well. And most of us in our team, we are regular attractions visitors ourselves, and we've sort of built up relationships with the people we work with as well. So it was nice to be able to provide something for free. And we did that for 23 consecutive weeks. So every week, we produced a new report. It kept some of my colleagues busy as well because I think in the end, it was about 70 pages which is a bit ridiculous by the end of it. But it was full of data to understand how people felt, whether they were open to go out in public and who was and who wasn't and loads and loads of other things.
Jon Young: And so we stopped that in August, but we've now gone down to conducting the research on a fortnightly basis and producing a monthly report. And so there should be one actually landing around about now.
Kelly Molson: Oh, fabulous.
Jon Young: Yeah, it's been a good experience. And when we did stop originally, we had a load of lovely emails from lots of different attractions saying how useful it had been. So yeah, it was worthwhile.
Kelly Molson: I think that's something that's really come across from great people in the sector throughout this situation that we've been in, is that things that have... Like you described it. I mean, ultimately, it's a marketing piece. It was a content marketing piece, but it was helpful. And that's what's been really, really important, is that anything that people were pushing out was helpful and useful to the sector. And it was so invaluable to be able to see the snapshot of how people were feeling. And even for us, we were able to kind of build our own content pieces on your content piece because we thought, "Oh, wow, people have really changed their opinion on how they feel about this thing." Now, that's something that affects what we do. Now, we can talk about it. And so, yeah, thank you for doing it because I just think it was such a great and useful piece of data to produce.
Jon Young: Yeah. Thank you. And I think I'm not sure if other sectors would have responded so well to, I think, because one thing that's really striking about the attraction sector is just how much everybody works together. And more often than not, they are actually technically competitors, but they don't see it that way. They think that as the sum of the parts is greater than the individual. Yeah. You see that with ALVA and I think we've had lots of organizations who we may sort of compete with also promoting this as well. So yeah, it was great.
Kelly Molson: Brilliant. Yeah. And sector communication is something that we've been talking about all the way through this. Long way, it continues.
Jon Young: Yeah. Absolutely.
Kelly Molson: So this brings us to a very recent and new piece of data that you have been working on. And I'm really excited because I have a little copy of it here, and I feel like there's not many people that have got this. So I feel quite special. Now, this is about a topic that has... We have been talking about this probably since March, but it is still a hot topic and it's on everyone's minds and it's pre-booking. Now, there is a huge debate at the moment around the benefits of pre-booking versus the more kind of traditional walkup approach the attractions have taken. And you've carried out a new piece of research, which is specifically around this. Just give us an overview of what you've done, of what you've carried out.
Jon Young: Yeah. So actually listening to your podcast and some of the various conversations that we've witnessed on various webinars, we felt that there was a lot of debates and a lot of opinion that maybe is worth putting some numbers against some of these opinions just to understand what was an issue and what wasn't. So we added, I think, around a dozen questions to our fortnightly tracker that we've just spoken about amongst a nationally representative sample of the UK population. And we just try to understand what proportion of these people had pre-booked, what proportion had booked but not shown up? What were the reasons for this? Were they understandable? Now, what proportion had actually booked and didn't fancy a visit but actually visited because they booked?
Jon Young: And then we've also looked at whether people are put off by pre-booking generally. Whether people would think it's a good or a bad thing to go to 100% pre-booking after COVID. And what are the reasons that people like it and the reasons people don't like it? So I guess that's it in a nutshell. And we've also looked at some of the different audiences and dug into some of our other data as well just to understand some of the other issues that people are talking about such as spontaneous visits. So that's it in a nutshell.
Kelly Molson: Excellent. Let's dive in to this because it's really interesting. I'd have to say I am a huge advocate for pre-booking. And I know, again, I've said this over and over and over on these podcast interviews. And it's quite surprising. I think I put a post out on LinkedIn a little while ago asking people what their experiences of it are and whether they think it's a good thing, whether they're uncomfortable with it. And the responses I got were really surprising.
Kelly Molson: I think potentially because I'm very much a planner and I'm very comfortable to book in advance about what I'm going to do, but obviously, there's a percentage of people that are more spontaneous and they would prefer to just decide what they're going to do on the day. And pre-booking doesn't work for them at all. And it's really fascinating, the data that's come out. So from an attractions perspective, we know what the benefits to the attractions are. We know that pre-booking, it allows them to know how many people are coming. It's great from an operational perspective. They know how much of their team they need in. They can even out that kind of pattern of visitor arrivals throughout the day. And we have seen an increase in donations and gift aid contributions as well via pre-booking. But let's start with what the visitors see as a benefit. How supportive are visitors of pre-booking?
Jon Young: So I think it's quite sort of striking that the majority of your markets, so these are people who visit attractions, seven in 10 do think it's a good thing. So 70% stated that they would still go ahead and visit if they found out that the place they had wanted to visit required pre-booking. So that is a strong majority, 70%. We also asked the question in a slightly different way if post-COVID attractions went to 100% pre-booking, would you see this as a good or a bad thing? And 75% stated either a good thing, or it wouldn't make any difference to them. So these are strong majorities who are probably in your camp, Kelly, who are sort of the planners and the organizers and they're fine with this.
Kelly Molson: Interesting. But that's not all of them, is it? Okay.
Jon Young: Absolutely.
Kelly Molson: Which we'll get to in a little while. And what do they see the main benefits of pre-booking is?
Jon Young: The main benefit was to be able to plan the time with more certainty. So that was around three in five. So 57% of visitors to indoor attractions. Slightly lower for gardens, and just to make the point that we tested pre-booking at indoor attractions. So looking at museums, art galleries, historic houses, and also gardens and country parks because clearly, the weather has a big impact too.
Kelly Molson: Sure.
Jon Young: And we also tested the restaurants just to kind of get a feel for that sort of benchmark where pre-booking has been in place for quite a long time. So yeah, the main reason was just the ability to plan in advance. The second most popular reason was that there's less queuing when we get there. So over half stated that. People were allowed to give more than one reason.
Jon Young: And then it drops a little bit to around three in 10 stating that places just tend to be less busy. One in four saying, "We can do some research ahead of the visit." And I think personally, I think that's quite an important reason even though only one in four were giving it. I think for me, one of the benefits of pre-booking to the attraction is they can have this conversation with the visitor in advance of the visit. And you can maybe raise awareness of parts of the attraction that you wouldn't necessarily see.
Jon Young: Year after year in research we've done with attractions, we speak to big chunks of visitors who say they went for maybe an exhibition, but they had no idea that half of the other elements of a site were there. They didn't know that there was an original version of this document on the back and would have loved to have seen it. So I think being able to have that conversation is really important. But for the visitor, that's one in four. And then one in five stating there are fewer debates about what to do on the day. So I can imagine families, certainly, if it's not spontaneous and it's in the diary a week in advance, then you don't have to have that debate and any sort of toys thrown out of premises.
Kelly Molson: Yeah. It's decided in advance, "This is what we're doing on Saturday, team. So let's plan for it." Rather than on the day, maybe have to have multiple conversations with different people in your family group about, what does everybody wants to do? The decision's already been made, we're doing this.
Jon Young: Absolutely. Yeah.
Kelly Molson: So what about drawbacks? Let's dive into those because I find these really interesting. So what are the drawbacks in the eyes of the visitor?
Jon Young: Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, three in 10 felt it was actually... They'd probably think twice and not visit and one in four saying it's a bad thing post-COVID. And the number one reason that people don't like to book ahead was that they just don't like to commit to things too early. They prefer to be spontaneous. And that was 67% of those who thought it was a bad thing to go to 100% pre-booking. So that's quite a big chunk of people who are quite spontaneous in their behavior. And we had some really... I thought, some quite interesting quotes alongside that. So we asked people just to write out, "Why do you think is a bad thing?" I'll just read a few of those out. "I like to be able to make spontaneous decisions in my life. I don't like to be tied to a time. Because I often visit places when I'm passing by."
Jon Young: And we've noticed in our research that if it's a city center attraction, particularly if it's free, you will often have up to one in five of your visitors actually deciding to visit when passing. And I do this quite often myself. Our office is in Holborn in Central London. So you'll often go for a walk maybe at lunchtime or after work. And I might sometimes walk past the British Museum. And I think, "Actually, I might just pop in," or any number of others in the area. And when I was working in Birmingham, there's Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery, similar sort of thing. You can easily just pop in. And there's a lot of people for whom attractions are just nice places to be. And it's just that they might choose it over a café or over a park just because it's a nice place to spend some time. So that was quite interesting.
Jon Young: The next couple I thought were also quite an interesting. So one person said, "If you plan on visiting several places in a day, that means a lot of booking and you have to be hyper-organized."
Kelly Molson: Which again, with a family, that's difficult, right? It's hard enough to get people out of the house on time to get to the first attraction at the time that you've booked. But then you're constantly clock-watching because you think, "Well, we've got to get to here at this point as well." And things might happen that way-lead you.
Jon Young: Paul had actually said he had his own personal experience of going to London during half term and with his son and then maybe they had a few museums planned and it's actually quite hard sticking to time. Yeah. So I think that's actually one that I hadn't thought of beforehand because you kind of think in the silo, don't you? I'm pre-booking one place. But the reality is people try to squeeze loads in, especially if they're visiting Central London or a big city.
Kelly Molson: Yeah, completely. And from my personal view, I had kind of not considered how close people might be to attractions and how easy it is just to nip in. You described where your office is in Holborn. We're outside of London. So for me, I'm always kind of making a trip somewhere to go to something. So I've got to get into London first. So for me, I'm kind of always doing that plan ahead. There isn't really those opportunities to be spontaneous where I live. So I don't think about being in that zone.
Jon Young: Absolutely. I mean, I know London. I'm from South Wales, but I probably know London in that sense better than anywhere in the UK. But maybe Edinburgh from when I've been there is quite similar. But if you imagine, I've been to South Kensington umpteen times and often take family there. And I'm thinking to the last time my sister came up, we went to the Natural History Museum as you do. And then we finished and we had a bit more time. So then, "Actually, should we just pop in the Science Museum?" So we went there and I think we even went to the V&A afterwards just because we were enjoying ourselves so much, but we hadn't planned the other two. It was just Natural History Museum. So I think certainly when they're quite close to each other, that's quite something to bear in mind too.
Jon Young: What else was there? Another quite interesting quote, a couple of quotes around the spontaneity point. Someone said, "When it's about entertainment, it's just stupid to plan your mood." I quite liked that.
Kelly Molson: I like that.
Jon Young: And about three months ago, I spoke to somebody. I was doing some work for a museum in Central London, and I was trying to understand the sort of habits before lockdown, before COVID, and after lockdown. And the lady I spoke to was an artist. And we did the Zoom chats and you could see in the background, there was wonderful pieces of art. And she's clearly an incredibly creative person. And she said that before COVID, she was going to attractions maybe two, three times a week if not more. And she just liked being in the National Gallery or the National Portrait Gallery or all these other places. But after lockdown restrictions were lifted, she said she'd been maybe twice in a month if that. And she had a few reasons, but the main one for her was pre-booking. And she said, "I'm such a spontaneous person. I really hate planning." And she even said that when you've got something planned say at two o'clock, then you spend most of the morning kind of thinking about that.
Kelly Molson: Right.
Jon Young: You know what I mean? I could actually imagine myself, there's a little anxiety. Am I doing everything for time? So there's definitely that type of person and they definitely exist and they are a minority, but they're a fairly chunky minority. And then there's the not organized people. Someone's said, "It would put me off because I hate organizing. I like to float around and browse. The commitment can be a serious burden and other events may occur." Maybe a bit extreme, but I think these people clearly exist and I think they're quite valid reasons.
Kelly Molson: Yeah, completely valid. And this is really difficult, isn't it? Because as an attraction, you need to cater for all of these different types of people and how everybody needs and wants the flexibility to be able to book or not book. Gosh, it's really difficult task that people-
Jon Young: It really is. And I think a couple of people gave the weather as well, which is obviously more applicable for some than others. I think one thing that maybe is missed in the debates, and maybe I've just not heard enough debates in it, but is that a lot of visits to attractions aren't necessarily those tick box, memorable moment, life-changing experiences. And if you're going to Warner Brothers or maybe a Merlin Attraction or Natural History Museum for the first time, then obviously, these are moments you'll never forget. But a lot of attraction visits are actually really casual visits. We call them the social mindset segments and they tend to make up around one in five people who visited typically visit attractions. And these are people who just go there to be in a nice environment and to maybe chat with a friend or to have a coffee or just to be around like-minded people. And I guess that can sometimes get missed off. It's not necessarily that big standout tick box experience every time.
Kelly Molson: Yeah. Like the example that you gave of the artist, I'm sure she finds those environments quite inspiring for her work and for what she does and who she is as a person. To have to plan that is almost like planning your inspiration. It's not quite right, is it? You take yourself off for a walk somewhere random to be inspired. And I think having to kind of go, "Okay, well, at two o'clock, I'm going to go to the Tate for my inspiration for the day," it doesn't quite sit well with that, does it?
Jon Young: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. It is a minority, but yeah, it feels quite valid.
Kelly Molson: Are there any differences by visitor party types? So families, retirees, et cetera.
Jon Young: Yeah. So it was quite interesting when we asked this question and when we looked at the life stage. So we looked at pre-nesters, those under 35s without children in household, older independents, so 35 and over without children in the household, then families, and then retirees. So we look at those four different life stages as opposed to age group. And families were a little bit higher in terms of being resistant. I think it is worth noting that they were a little bit higher. It's about seven percentage points. It's not a huge amount, but the vast majority were still happy with that. And I think my take, having thought about this quite a bit now, is that the differences aren't really based on life stage or party size per se. There are some, and I can understand why families would be resistant.
Jon Young: There are more moving parts with a family literally and more things that can go wrong in the day. Whereas if myself and my partner, we've just got ourselves to worry about. So I can see why that would be a barrier. But for me, the biggest distinction is in attitudes. And as I mentioned earlier, we do quite a lot of audience segmentation. So we don't tend to do them on demographics anymore. So we don't do it on gender or age or any other demographic. We do it on people's attitudes and base their attitudes to life. Or it could be to how they do their leisure behavior or anything else. And that's what's come across here, I think, is that the key distinctions are attitudes to pre-booking and how organized you are and how spontaneous you are and how much you like planning and how much you don't.
Jon Young: And that does transcend all life stages. Certainly, there's an indication that families are a bit more resistant, but it's not as big as the sort of differences in terms of attitudes. One other thing we noticed though is that even though families were a bit more resistant, they were actually more likely to go ahead. So it's almost as if they were gritting their teeth and visiting. And again, that did make sense because I guess when you're a family, you really need to fill your spare time and to get out and do things. So whereas maybe an individual on their own or a couple, there's less pressure to do that.
Kelly Molson: Yeah. You've got the challenge again of keeping children and younger members of your family occupied.
Jon Young: Absolutely.
Kelly Molson: So that's that. We've got to do something. Whether we like this or not, we've got to get them out of the house. They're a bit stuck in these four walls. Everyone's going crazy. We've got to go out and do something kind of attitude.
Jon Young: Yeah. So my sort of take from this whole section is that not to get too caught up on the party type and just to think about these different attitudes because that feels to be the big dividing point.
Kelly Molson: Okay. And audiences that are not picked up by the research. Again, I think this is really interesting to me because I hadn't thought about some of these things as actually being a challenge for people, which is it's not on them to be honest. I should have been more aware of them, but tell us about the audiences that have not been picked up by the research and how it would affect them.
Jon Young: Yeah. So I think the international audiences. This was amongst a UK sample. So I can visualize here my wife's parents who are Polish and they don't speak any English. And coming over here as they have done a few times and just setting them free into London and see what they get up to. And they often do visit attractions, but they'll walk up and they'll have that conversation. And there's less room for error, but to ask them to go on a website, they don't book their National Express from Stansted. They get my wife to do that because they know that they can do something wrong. They're a great example in my mind that there's likely to be a barrier for international visitors, particularly those who don't speak English. And there's lots of those who come to London and the rest of the UK.
Jon Young: So that's definitely a barrier thing. And unless you can cover all the bases with language, then I think that will be. I know that Google have an inbuilt translation function, but again, you have to be quite IT savvy to know that. So I think that's definitely one audience. The older retirees, so we conduct our surveys on a panel. So these are people who've signed up to do the surveys online. So we're naturally missing out that small proportion of older citizens who aren't that IT savvy. So I guess my Nan would have fallen into that category. She always liked to phone ahead, for example. So there is a danger that they lose out a little bit. And I think, obviously, there's always the option to phone and they do that. But perhaps that is just one extra barrier then, one extra step when maybe a year before, they would have just turned up.
Jon Young: So that audience, I think, is quite an important one still, although they are becoming more IT savvy. I think a lot of data shows that. I see people's grands on Facebook now just to make that point. That's a different place to 10 years ago for sure. And I think the third big audience is the low-income audiences. So we've been doing some work for a network of libraries in the UK. And I think it was about two months ago that we had a big meeting with representatives of these different libraries around the UK. And we decided to switch our research to online, again, because of COVID. We used to have paper-based surveys that we've handed out in each library. And we felt, "This is a great idea," maybe for the same reasons as the pre-booking. It's much more efficient. You get much better data, more reliable, blah, blah, blah.
Jon Young: And about halfway through, someone from a Glasgow Museum put their hand up and said, "This is great, but can we have paper surveys as well?" He said that it was around about 30% of his catchment area didn't have access to the internet. And I was really surprised by that.
Kelly Molson: Right. It's a huge amount.
Jon Young: It is. You don't expect numbers like that. But I know there is quite high deprivation traditionally in that area where the library is. So he said, "It's absolutely essential that we have paper surveys." And there was another way of doing this as well. And obviously, that made me think about pre-booking online too. And it's been a challenge for certainly the museum sector and cultural attractions to reach out to all of their audiences. And actually, in Glasgow, they've done a really amazing job. The likes of Kelvingrove, for example, but this audience is quite large. And I guess it needs to be thought-about too. So yeah, that's quite a big barrier as well, I think.
Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a focus for cultural organizations to raise their awareness in audiences that are not necessarily their natural audiences or people that are less aware of them. Those people would fit into that category. So it's understanding all the different ways that you need to be able to help people visit, help them understand what you do and be able to book.
Jon Young: Absolutely. I think certain funding like HLF funding is dependent on attractions actually doing that as well. So they kind of need to be seen to return in all these different ways.
Kelly Molson: Gosh. So what are the conclusions from this? Because there's not a one answer fits all, is there? This is going to be some kind of hybrid model.
Jon Young: There really isn't. I think one thing I didn't mention is the no shows as well. I don't know if you wanted to mention that.
Kelly Molson: Yes.
Jon Young: But I think there's a big worry as well. In our survey, around 10% of people... Actually, it's 15%, sorry, said that they booked and hadn't shown up. And so there's another, I guess, barrier as well. Although we also found that a similar proportion had shown up because they booked. So I think that maybe balances out. So I think in terms of our conclusions, that was quite an important point for me because there was a lot of people not showing up just because they were never committed in the first place. So I think about seven in 10 of those people said actually it was always 50/50, "I've just booked it." So I think there was a need to maybe make that more taboo.
Kelly Molson: There's a challenge there around annual passes as well, isn't there?
Jon Young: Absolutely.
Kelly Molson: So if you have an annual pass for an attraction, and you have to pre-book as well to use that annual pass, you book it but you might not go. But that can't then be resold. So the attraction in a way kind of loses out because there's no one else that they can put through the door.
Jon Young: Yeah, it is a real challenge. And I think I was really struck by the fact that the majority of people who don't turn up just said they had more than one option that day, and they didn't really get the gravity of it. And I mentioned that we tested restaurants as well. And what was really striking was that the proportion of no shows is a lot lower. And people who don't turn up to restaurants were more likely to give understandable reasons like they were ill on the day or so. And I think not turning up to a restaurant is a little bit more taboo. You can kind of visualize in your head that empty table that you're leaving there.
Jon Young: So I think the more the attractions can create that sense of taboo without sort of shaming anyone, the better. And maybe that will happen less and less. And I think they are doing that. But you said the annual pass point is quite important. So I think when people have parted with a lot of money for their pre-booking, they're less likely to do it. So yeah, I think one of the conclusions is if we can reduce that a little bit as well, that will help.
Jon Young: But in terms of overall conclusions, I mean, I'm like yourself. I'm massively in favor of pre-booking. I think it's brilliant at so many different levels. And I think you listed those right at the start. It's great for the attraction. And it can really improve the visitor experience. It can see improve rates. And also, you can gain loyalty in the long-term and have that conversation on either side. So I'm really behind it. I think it really does suggest, though, that there's a need for some sort of hybrid where there is a walkup option possible because as we've discussed at length, this one in five of your visitors, they may be spontaneous visitors, depending on where you're situated.
Jon Young: Obviously, it does matter where you are and how much you charge. If you are the British Library, then there's loads of people coming out of King's Cross and just popping in. But if you're in the middle of nowhere, then you're less likely to have that. So there's obvious differences. And I guess people need to sort of work those through as well. But I certainly think some sort of hybrid. And I'm glad I don't have to sort of deciding on how that works. And I just got to give the data because it's clearly very challenging. But there's a lot of operational brains out there, I think, that can really can work that through.
Jon Young: And maybe there's a bit of trial and error as well. But I think the point I made earlier about just understanding it's more of an attitude, no barrier, I think, than anything else. And not to get too bogged down in the demographics of it all. And just to understand that some people hate planning. Yeah. I'm not so good at it myself. So I can kind of empathize. Yeah. And I guess just to be aware that there are other audiences out there who might really struggle. I saw some figures today from Visit Britain and their projections on inbound tourism and it's so low.
Kelly Molson: Yeah. 16.9 million, wasn't it? For next year.
Jon Young: Well done. I can't remember.
Kelly Molson: I think that's what I read this morning. I've been looking at it myself. But it's so vastly down. It's really scary.
Jon Young: It really is. And markets like the states will take longer to catch up just because there's a big lag from bookings to visiting. So we need to do all we can to get as many of our British-based visitors in as possible. So I guess we just need to have all the options we can. So yeah, that's the key conclusion, I think, really. And yeah, like I said, I'll leave it to the boffins' fractions to work out how to do it because I guess you don't want to have a situation where if you can turn up walkup anyway, why would you pre-book?
Kelly Molson: It's difficult, isn't it? Yeah.
Jon Young: So, balance.
Kelly Molson: It is about balance, I think. I mean, a lot of attractions are just going to say, "No, that's it. We're going to keep the pre-booking. That's it." It's almost tough, but I think it depends on... It's very location-driven like you were saying. It's interesting. We've actually got Geoff Spooner coming on the podcast in the New Year from the Warner Brothers Studio Tour, The Making of Harry Potter, which obviously launched with pre-booking from opening day. So it'll be really interesting for people to tune in and hear all of the positives from that. But Geoff is very pragmatic when he speaks about it because he does say a lot of those decisions are driven by location actually in terms of kind of parking and congestion in the area where they're located as well. It made sense to do that. And so there's so many factors you have to think about, and it is going to be down to the individual attractions to work out what's going to work best for them.
Jon Young: It really is, and I think the likes of Warner Brothers, as I said earlier, when you visit Warner Brothers, it is-
Kelly Molson: It's magic.
Jon Young: ... amazing. I went a few years ago with my niece, and we actually booked four months in advance. And it was amazing. And everyone's had the same experience, I think. So it is maybe different to the [inaudible 00:41:38] in Central London where you can visit more regularly perhaps. But I think actually one thing that Simon at Roman Baths mentioned was that their booking system is really flexible. So they've had a really low proportion of no-shows. So you can cancel, I think, up to the minute pretty much. And so I think the more flexibility, the better, and maybe that will help as well. So yeah, lots out there. And I'm sure there'll be some great best practice.
Kelly Molson: Well, lots to think about for 2021. Hopefully, this podcast has given you a little insight into what visitors are thinking about pre-booking. Jon, I mean, I've been lucky enough to have my copy in advance. Where will people be able to find this research so that they can have a read of it themselves?
Jon Young: So hopefully, by the time this is published, we'll have put it into a blog and maybe in a Q&A format. We'll see how it goes. Might put a few graphs in there. We love a graph.
Kelly Molson: Love a graph.
Jon Young: Feel a bit naked without a graph actually just talking about this. So yeah, we'll put it on our website. Follow me on LinkedIn or whatever, and I'll be promoting it on there as well.
Kelly Molson: Right. Well, for our listeners, we will link to all of these things in the show notes. So we will link to Jon's LinkedIn profile. We'll link to the BVA BDRC website and their Twitter profile. So go ahead and follow them. And then you will have access to this brilliant research. Jon, I always end the podcast by asking our guests to recommend a book. Something that they love or something that's helped shape their career in some way. So have you got something to share with us today?
Jon Young: I do. I've got this book called How Emotions Are Made.
Kelly Molson: Great.
Jon Young: So I read this on jury service.
Kelly Molson: Okay. Interesting jury service then?
Jon Young: Yeah. Well, when I got to the jury service, I noticed that there were loads and loads of thousand-piece jigsaws which gave me an idea that we wouldn't be doing a lot with our time. I think I spent 90% of it just hanging around. So luckily, I had this book, which is written by a neurologist called Lisa Feldman Barrett. And it's the science of how emotions are sort of created. It's a hard read. And I don't think I'd have read it if I didn't have so much time on my hands. But it's really, really fascinating and it kind of changed how I thought about the visitor experience.
Jon Young: In a nutshell, it sort of talks about how you can only really feel emotions if you recognize the stimulus you're given and if you're not distracted in lots of ways. So when we test the visitor experience now, certainly in exhibitions, we will just make sure we sort of test how relatable exhibits and descriptions are and whether there are any distractions in the exhibition room, and lots of other things around that. So I do recommend it. It really changed how we thought about the visitor experience. I'm just looking at the footnotes, were about a hundred pages. So I'm not sure if anyone wants to win this, but it's really interesting.
Kelly Molson: Jon, you're not really selling it for our listeners. I'm not going to lie. Listen, if you've listened to all of that, and you'd still like to win that book, then if you head over to our Twitter account, and as ever, retweet this episode announcement with the words, "I want Jon's books." Then you will be in with a chance of winning a copy of it. Jon, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been an absolute pleasure. And I would like to just thank you again for all of the work that you've been doing throughout lockdown because it has been invaluable for us. And I know that it's been invaluable for many, many attractions up and down the UK. So thank you.
Jon Young: Thank you.
Kelly Molson: This is the last episode of 2020, which is crazy. I have had an absolute blast this year talking to the most interesting people. And I'm so grateful that all of you, listeners, have been tuning in week after week after week. So thank you. We are going to be back on the sixth of January with a very exciting episode. In fact, we've got loads of exciting episodes lined up for the start of the New Year. As you heard earlier, we've got Geoff Spooner coming on from The Making of Harry Potter, which I'm really excited about. I definitely fangirled a little bit on that podcast. We have Holkham Estates coming on to talk about their sustainability plans. And we have the brilliant National Football Museum who are coming on to talk about why your attraction should have a podcast. So stay tuned. We'll see you in the New Year. But in the meantime, have an absolutely wonderful Christmas and festive break.
Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by
Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.
The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE!
Download the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!
A New World (Amazon):
https://www.amazon.com/New-World-Whitley-Strieber/dp/1734202831/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Dreamland Podcast:
https://www.unknowncountry.com/podcasts/dreamland/
Whitley Strieber’s Website:
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks for listening!
Mystery metal monolith vanishes from Utah desert:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/29/monolith-vanishes-from-utah-desert
Police will not investigate disappearance of Utah mystery monolith:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/30/utah-monolith-mystery-disappearance-police
New Monolith Mysteriously Pops Up In Romania:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/utah-monolith-twin-romania_n_5fc570d5c5b66bb88c6996bc
Alien Abduction: The Antonio Boas Story:
https://anomalien.com/alien-abduction-the-antonio-boas-story
10 Secrets Of The Antonio Villas Boas Alien Abduction Story:
http://proofofalien.com/10-secrets-of-the-antonio-villas-boas-alien-abduction-story/
Alien Symbols (JPG):
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4494c9993e08.jpg
Vallee Declines to Substantiate Claim of CIA Simulating UFO Abductions:
https://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2019/12/vallee-declines-to-substantiate-claim.html
Simulated Alien Abductions: the CIA, a Hot Hooker, and Secret Experiments:
‘Alien Abduction’ Research Suggests Episodes Are Actually Lucid Dreams:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alien-abduction-research-lucid-dreams_n_1498186
Probing Extraterrestrial Abduction:
https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/11/27/247220595/probing-extraterrestrial-abduction
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks for listening!
Dare to be Stupid Transformers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrMbkbTPrPA
Helicopter pilot finds 'strange' monolith in remote part of Utah:
Strange Arrivals (Podcast Homepage):
https://www.grimandmild.com/strangearrivals
History of alien abduction claims (Wikipedia):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alien_abduction_claims
America’s First UFO Sighting:
https://www.history.com/news/americas-first-ufo-sighting
UFO Headquarters - UFOs of the Early 1900s:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/10880920/ufo-headquarters-07-08-2019-airships-of-
Antônio Villas Boas (Wikipedia):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antônio_Villas_Boas
Alien Symbols (JPG):
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4494c9993e08.jpg
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks for listening!
NASA announces discovery of water on moon's sunlit surface:
https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2020/10/26/NASA-announces-discovery-of-water-on-moons-sunlit-surface/9811603729206/
UFOs: I KNOW WHAT I SAW - 2019 Best UFO HD Movie UFOTV®:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGMGOdKOPKk
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks for listening!
The Phenomenon (amazon.com):
So Demi Lovato Has Been Talking To Aliens:
https://www.thecut.com/2020/10/demi-lovato-alien-spon-con.html
Trump Implies That the US Military Could Defeat Aliens If They Show Up:
https://futurism.com/trump-military-aliens
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
As lock down continues in the UK, with our public health emergency caused by COVID 19, the ‘new normal’ now includes ‘NHS Test & Trace’ which is part the range of measures to track where COVID 19 has spread and enable us all as individuals to do the right thing to self-isolate if we’ve had contact with someone who has symptoms or a full case of the virus.
Here are details about the individual QR code we must display specific to our property, and info on the requirements to maintain records of guests staying in our properties, any other visitors, our housekeeping teams and maintenance people. This must all be in accordance with GDPR too.
For show notes and resources in my podcast, go to my website www.servicedaccommodationsecrets.com and Facebook page: http://bit.ly/SASecretsPage
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Now before you write this episode off as another church growth “numbers” thing, let me encourage you to hang in there. The spiritual reality is, if we don’t work on creating an environment of welcome and follow up in our churches, we will severely limit our opportunity to reach those who don’t know Jesus, giving them an opportunity to even hear the gospel.
To help us talk about the guest experience and follow up, I have asked Chris Highfill, one of our Converge Midamerica pastors, pastoring just outside the St. Louis area to join us. Chris is a church planter at his core, and God has given him a burning passion to see people come to know Jesus, and that passion is resulting in God working at his church in significant ways. One of the areas that Chris and his church spend a lot of time focusing on, is this area of the guest experience and follow up. I could say a lot more, but I don’t want to steal Chris’s thunder. So, Chris, thanks for being on the podcast today and sharing with us.
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
Are aliens hiding in plain sight?:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/05/are-aliens-hiding-in-plain-sight
Lynne Plaskett:
https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Lynne_Plaskett
POLITICIAN SAYS UFO CURED HER OF CANCER:
https://www.deseret.com/1996/9/12/19265278/politician-says-ufo-cured-her-of-cancer
Legacy of New Smyrna Beach politician Lynne Plaskett: Claim of being cured of cancer by alien saucer:
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
Pentagon establishes new task force to investigate UFOs:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/14/ufo-pentagon-task-froce-395683?cid=apn
US defense department creates taskforce to investigate UFOs:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/15/us-department-defense-ufo-taskforce
John Was Trying to Contact Aliens | Official Trailer | Netflix:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/watch/john-was-trying-to-contact-aliens-official-trailer-netflix/vp-BB18aRLN
The man who tried to contact aliens from his grandma's living room:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/aug/23/the-man-who-tried-to-contact-aliens-from-his-grandmas-living-room
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
extraordinary: the stan romanek story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9e4mQ3xots
Stan Romanek - Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Romanek
Stan Romanek caught faking (shocking)!:
https://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/stan-romanek-caught-faking-shocking.6234/
Stan Romanek, famous alien abductee, faking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUBNrl-nJD4&feature=youtu.be
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.
Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor Numbers
If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.
Competition ends October 31st 2020. The winner will be contacted via Twitter.
Show references:
blooloop.com/blooloop-50-theme-park-nomination-2020/
blooloop.online-event.co/registration/blooloop-3
Transcriptions:
Kelly Molson:
Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world.
In today's episode, I speak with Charlie Read, Managing Director of Blooloop, the world's leading online resource for professionals working in the visitor attraction sector. We discuss what attractions can learn from the COVID-19 situation and the positives that are to come from it. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.
Kelly Molson:
Charlie, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. It's really lovely to have you.
Charlie Read:
You too, thanks for inviting me along.
Kelly Molson:
Very welcome. I always start off these interviews by asking you a few icebreaker questions just to get to know the real you. And we haven't spoken before, so this will be a quite nice insight into what the real Charlie is like. I hope you're prepared. Okay. Can you tell me, what's at the top of your bucket list?
Charlie Read:
Oh, the top of my bucket list. I think my main passion in life is probably wildlife. I've never been on a safari to East Africa. That's something I'd like to do.
Kelly Molson:
Ah, that would be pretty incredible, wouldn't it?
Charlie Read:
I want to see the wildebeests and the crocodiles and the lions and so on.
Kelly Molson:
Lovely, good bucket list. Can you tell me, what's the worst job you've ever had?
Charlie Read:
Oh my. I had a job once where I had to ring up people from a very, very long list and ask if they wanted to speak to someone to sell pensions to them. I wasn't the guy selling the pensions, I was the guy trying to make appointments. The percentage of people who told me to get lost was very high, in more flowery language than that. Yeah, I found that quite dispiriting, but I didn't do it for very long.
Kelly Molson:
It's quite soul-destroying, isn't it? You have to be really thick-skinned for all of the negative nerves that you're going to get from it.
Charlie Read:
Yeah, exactly. As a part of that, part of the thing I've learned is I'm always really nice to people who cold-call me, because I've done that job and it's not a lot of fun and they're just doing their job.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah, that's true. Well, that's nice. That's a good learning thing to take away from that. Okay. Cats or dogs? It's an important question.
Charlie Read:
Probably dogs. We've got two of each, but I'm definitely a dog person.
Kelly Molson:
Right, and last question. Can you tell me something that is true to you? So you believe that you completely agree on, but nobody else agrees with you on, your unpopular opinion?
Charlie Read:
I've got to be honest. I'll say, I've never been a fan of Star Wars.
Kelly Molson:
Wow.
Charlie Read:
I don't get it, really. I like Empire Strikes Back, I think that's a good film. But I've never really bought into Star Wars.
Kelly Molson:
That's quite a big one. That's quite controversial as well, I think.
Charlie Read:
Yeah.
Kelly Molson:
My partner is exactly the same. He's never ever watched a single Star Wars film, never. I don't even know how he's got through life having avoided them.
Charlie Read:
Yeah. There's a film... I'm pretty obsessed with trees, which we might talk about later. But there's one of those films that takes place in the Redwood Forest in California, which I love.
Kelly Molson:
That's the one with the Ewoks?
Charlie Read:
Yeah. But I never got Star Wars.
Kelly Molson:
All right. I feel like you're going to get some comeback to that, Charlie, when this airs. Thank you for answering those questions. I mean, for people that don't know, Charlie is the Managing Director of Blooloop, which is the world's leading online resource for professionals working in the visitor attraction sector.
Kelly Molson:
I have to just start by saying that throughout the last three or four months, Blooloop has been absolutely invaluable to anybody working in the profession and in this sector. It has been an absolute fountain of knowledge about what's happening in the UK, what's happening globally. It has been the one place that I have turned to on a daily basis actually, to see what is going on and how people are coping.
Kelly Molson:
Firstly, thank you for all of the hard work that's gone into that. I'd really love to hear a little bit about what your background is, and how you ended up as Managing Director of Blooloop.
Charlie Read:
Yeah, sure. I am going way back. My degree was from a poly. They don't exist anymore, I think they're all universities. I did Law, so I was a Lawyer for a while. Then I sort of drifted into publishing. By the time we came down to Devon, where I live now... we live in the middle of nowhere, I needed a job I could do from home. I had always been really, really keen on zoos, aquariums attractions. I knew the publishing world which I had worked in was gradually moving online. That's when I came up with the idea.
Charlie Read:
I very purposely decided to make it about attractions as a whole rather than just museums or just theme parks. Because right then, I recognized this is a dreadful awful management were the commonalities between all these kinds of attractions. I saw that there were a few sites that were just about specific sectors, and companies that marketed themselves as just being about working in a specific vertical market.
Charlie Read:
To be frank, most design companies, for example, they don't really care if the call comes in from an aquarium or a zoo or a museum. And also, museums specifically more and more are becoming much more interactive, much more immersive. They're understanding even if they're not for profit, commercial organizations need to drive people through the gates. They need to get people to stay there, they need to help them have memorable experiences. All visitor attractions are about creating experiences, so I thought it would work to have a site that covered all kinds of experiences and attractions.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah, I completely agree. You see museums in a slightly different segment quite a lot of the time. I've never really understood that because they do have the same challenges as a theme park for example, in terms of getting those customers through the door and that experience part of the process. Yeah, I completely agree with you on that. How has it developed over the years? Was it just yourself when you started it, and then how has it grown?
Charlie Read:
Yeah, it was just me. I started on my own. My wife who runs the business with me, Rachel, she was an accountant for a long time. She was earning very well. It took me a good few years until we got our revenue up enough that she could leave that job and work with Blooloop. Since then, it's progressed and grown very well every year since then. Yeah, but we've just gradually built up what we offer and developed a website, made it better. Yeah, just really, really worked hard to provide a good service to our readers and to our clients.
Kelly Molson:
How has lockdown been for you? Because I guess you're quite used to working from home, so that obviously hasn't been a huge change. But how has it been for you, personally? And also as an organization, what kinds of things have you been doing to support your audience through all of this?
Charlie Read:
Yeah. I think first, personally in terms of my experience, I do work from home. The day-to-day life is much the same. We live in quite a rural area, so it's been okay to go outside and walk around and running or whatever. That's all fine. And so, the main change to me personally is not traveling. I normally go to London probably once a week. I tend to fly somewhere once a month, I would say. Not traveling anywhere has been a change, but it's not been about change. I've quite enjoyed being at home, and focusing on the garden and walking and dogs and stuff like that.
Charlie Read:
As a business, we decided early on that we wanted to maintain and continue to give as good a service as we could. We thought it was important to provide as much useful coverage as we could about coronavirus and its impact. Fortunately, there's been some great resources online. Including you, Kelly, the work you've done putting together sources. For example as well, Alliance of American Museums. There's a lot of great resources out there, and we thought that we were one of them in terms of just putting information out there and reporting what's happening. We decided to do that.
Charlie Read:
Yeah, and business has been fine, to be honest. It's been impacted a little bit, but our traffic has continued to grow which has been great. And so I think we're at a good position to continue through to the new normal, whatever that will be.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah. Who knows? There's a long way to go, isn't there? We'll ask you about that in a little while. What kind of things have you been doing to support your audience? I mean, you have been so constant, like a constant source of resource and a constant source of knowledge throughout it. You obviously have a huge membership database of attractions. How have you been able to help them whilst this has been going on?
Charlie Read:
A lot of what we do is not really... I guess you wouldn't see. We speak to a lot of people on the phone on calls, and where they seek advice. We put people in touch with other people. We do a lot of that kind of stuff. But it's more really in terms of the business, creating content, chasing up people for news, checking news, this kind of stuff. Just making sure that what we report is correct, which is always important. Yeah, and just making sure we give a good service to our readers.
Charlie Read:
I'm very aware that there's an awful lot of people out there who are either furloughed or have lost their jobs. There's whole attractions that are closing. I think from our point of view, at least if we can carry on giving as good a service as we've been doing, then that's important to us.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah. That's good. I guess you want people to continue to use you, so you've been super supportive throughout all of this. I think any membership organization that I've spoken to, has been doing the same. They care about their members, they care about the people that as their audience and they've wanted to do as much as they possibly can to help them throughout all of this. I mean, that's certainly the approach that we've been taking with our clients as well.
Kelly Molson:
From a different perspective, we've seen people that we work with and talk to on a daily basis, just not there anymore. They've been furloughed. There's nothing that they can do to help the organization that is closed. It's been really tough. Lots of positives this week, though. As we speak, it's coming up to mid-July. Attractions are open if they are able to open safely, which is wonderful to see. We are seeing a number of our clients opening next week, which is great. We do lots of work to support them.
Kelly Molson:
I mean, how is the general mood in the industry at the moment? You're probably be best placed to answer that question, because you speak to so many different people.
Charlie Read:
It's obviously a bizarre and unique time. I think that's the first thing to say. And also, people don't really know. It's the uncertainty, I think is the worst thing. Obviously, a lot of attractions are facing pretty catastrophic times immediately right now. There's the misery of people losing their jobs, people being furloughed who won't get taken back on, there's all that kind of stuff.
Charlie Read:
I think there's a kind of cautious optimism from a lot of people I speak to about... We're a resilient industry as a whole. We'll adapt. Theme parks, attractions, museums, they'll just have to change the way they operate. They'll have to invest in new technologies. I think there's a kind of cautious optimism. It is a resilient industry. People do want to go out and do things. People are bursting at the seams to go out and visit attractions. It may not be right now. It may take a few months until coronavirus sort of drifts away a little bit more.
Charlie Read:
But as I say, I'm generally quite an optimistic person. I think we're also seeing a lot of companies pivoting in terms of what they do. People are adapting their businesses. There are some kinds of businesses that will do well out of this. Perhaps tech companies, app companies, for example. Companies are doing things, really obvious things, like making masks or sanitizing equipment and that kind of stuff. I think it's a time of innovation and change. I think although we can acknowledge it's dreadful in many, many ways, I think the industry will survive as a whole but just come out differently.
Kelly Molson:
It's good that you mentioned that. Because one of the questions that I wanted to ask you is if there's anything that attractions can learn from the COVID-19 situation, if there's anything positive that can come out of this situation.
Charlie Read:
One thing it's going to do is accelerate... I think it's going to accelerate change in terms of a move to digital, for example. That is happening. It was happening, and it's going to happen much more quickly than it was. Things like face recognition for example, and touchless technology and this kind of stuff was happening, but that will be accelerated. That's one thing.
Charlie Read:
I think a lot of attractions are going to perhaps rethink how they operate. In the States for example, right now, there's a boom in agritourism. People are visiting farms near to where they live, because they are becoming places that you can go for an afternoon. You can go... I don't know, working in the fields, for example. I think organizations like let's say The National Trust, organizations, theme parks with lots of lands perhaps can start leveraging their outdoor spaces more than they are now. I think there are ways that we can innovate in terms of what we do with visitors when they get through the doors, and I think that kind of change will happen as well.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah, that's interesting. We were actually speaking to Alistair Barber from the National Parks, and that's one of the things that I want to speak to him about. Obviously, at the moment, outdoor attractions are seemed and deemed to be a lot safer than indoor attractions.
Kelly Molson:
There has been a huge increase in demand. I mean, we've seen ticket sales for Chester Zoo, Whipsnade Wildlife Park. The ticket sales have gone through the roof. And obviously, they're at capped to capacity at the moment, but the demand is absolutely there. And it will be really interesting to see how that translates into the demand for some of the indoor attractions as well. If there are things, if they have outdoor space, will they start to use them more? Will they start to see that as an advantage?
Kelly Molson:
You talked a little bit about overseas there. I wanted to see if there's anything that you think that the UK attractions can learn from overseas attractions. Is there anything that you've seen that they are doing differently that we can implement here?
Charlie Read:
Well, I think that the most obvious thing is to look at in terms of operations, is to look at what attractions are doing in places where they've essentially conquered to a large degree, Coronavirus. If you look at China, Singapore, these kinds of places when they're operating, but where attractions have been open for weeks, how are they doing it? Look at the day-to-day operations, like Shanghai Disney, for example. Look at how they treat visitors, look at how the streamlined process is, this kind of stuff. That's what we can learn from in an obvious way.
Charlie Read:
Also, there's been a big move from attractions to becoming I think, more engaging on social media. Reaching out to audiences even if the audiences aren't there. That kind of reaching out will continue even when the visitors are coming back. That will again, will have accelerated that kind of move. There are tons of initiatives online in terms of gaming and game education and engagement with audiences that are really inspiring. I know the Animal Crossing worked with the Field Museum. Even something really obvious like the penguins from the Shedd Aquarium wondering around the Field Museum.
Kelly Molson:
Oh.
Charlie Read:
It's a good example of two institutions collaborating and doing something really engaging and thinking outside of the box.
Kelly Molson:
That was lovely, wasn't it? I think that for me at the beginning of lockdown, there was a real surgence of some really creative and innovative content being pushed out by a lot of organizations. It was just lovely. It's like you say, it's about being part of the conversation even if you can't be open to your guests. It's still sharing that experience with what your attraction is like. I mean, I don't know if you saw the National Cowboy Museum.
Charlie Read:
Oh, yeah.
Kelly Molson:
Oh my gosh, Tim. It was just lovely.
Charlie Read:
What a star.
Kelly Molson:
What an absolute star. Cowboy Tim, for any of you that haven't seen this, please go and check it out. Go and look at the National Cowboy Museum, because their Twitter content was just so fabulous at the start of lockdown. Cowboy Tim is their security guard, isn't he? He's the security manager.
Charlie Read:
Yeah.
Kelly Molson:
He was inside the museum, and he was just talking to you around some of the things that were there and showing you what he was doing on a daily basis. It was just heartwarming, wasn't it? It's not his role. He's no social media manager. But it was so authentic, and I'm sure it's gained them a huge amount of extra followers.
Charlie Read:
Oh, yeah. It was fantastic for exactly the reason you say. It was real. It wasn't someone who had been schooled in social media, very obviously. But he was just genuine. He was articulate and genuine, and he was just funny. It was everything that social media should be, really.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah. Yeah, it's really lovely to see. I do hope that that's done wonders for them. It's funny. I mean, I don't know when I'll get over there, but that's definitely a place that I'm going to go and check out as soon as I can.
Charlie Read:
Oh yeah, and see Tim.
Kelly Molson:
Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about what's next for Blooloop now, because we know that you run a conference every year that is I'm guessing, going to change quite a lot this year. Can you tell us a little bit about what you've got planned?
Charlie Read:
Yeah, sure. We've been running Blooloop live in London for the last four or five years. We started thinking actually probably around a year ago about moving online, but long before COVID. COVID has been dreadful for a billion reasons, and the most trivial of them all is that it made me feel quite opportunistic when we announced we were doing a virtual conference when COVID started because we had been planning it for many, many months.
Charlie Read:
So yeah, we are doing our conference in October. It's called the V-Expo, Virtual Expo. It's essentially a version of our London conference, but bumped up. It's relying on great content. We've got fantastic speakers from around the world. We've got speakers from across a whole variety of attractions, from major theme parks to top museums to new live experiences. We've got speakers announcing expansions to major institutions. We've got speakers launching new live experiences, revealing new plans for resorts. We've got a ton of people announcing new things at the conference. We've also got an exhibition also, vendor companies can have booths and they can showcase their products and services, they can interact with people who visit.
Charlie Read:
We see it as an opportunity of basically expanding our London conference and making it available to a global audience. And also, it's online. We can get speakers from California or from India without them having to fly over here. It's just much easier for attendees and for the speakers. We've also made it... it's free to register.
Charlie Read:
We were absolutely aware that this year of all years, there's tons and tons of people who either have been furloughed or lost their jobs or are uncertain about their future. We've made it free to attend, I think that's an important point. We're also working closely with our friends at Merlin. They're supporting us in terms of promotion and in terms of providing the backdrops for the exhibition as well.
Charlie Read:
Yeah, that'll take place in October. So we're doing that. A few things will happen during that we're working on now. We're just about to launch in the next few days, our Blooloop 50, which is the Theme Park Influencers of the Year. And we're also launching a Blooloop 50 Museum Influencers as well. The results of both of those will be announced during the virtual expo as well. We're also going to do a virtual run during the expo. I know the UK will be doing at least five miles.
Kelly Molson:
Wow, okay. I feel like-
Charlie Read:
I'll take that as when, and we'll sign you up.
Kelly Molson:
The gauntlet has just been thrown down there, hasn't it?
Charlie Read:
Exactly, yeah. We're doing that. Yeah, I think there's a whole lot of things we'll do to make it really interesting and really engaging. It really won't be just a series of Zoom calls. It will be very, very different to that. I'm looking forward to doing it.
Kelly Molson:
That sounds so positive. I think it's lovely that you've been able to make that free for people. I think what an incredible gesture at a time where things are still going to be very difficult. We have to be cautiously excited that attractions can open and are open now, but this is the start of quite a long phase of challenge for people. To be able offer that for free is wonderful. And I think it's such a positive that you can take something that was so London-centric and now it's a global conference, and anyone from all over the world can come and access it so easily. We'll be there, you know that for sure.
Charlie Read:
Yeah, great stuff.
Kelly Molson:
I love to end the podcast interviews by asking you about a book that you'd recommend that's kind of helped shape your career or stood out to you in any way throughout it. Do you have one that you could suggest for us?
Charlie Read:
Yeah. It's an interesting question, because I don't read business and leadership books very much. I tend to read fiction. I've never been a fan of business books. But I'd say, first of all, two books that really influenced me were... when I was a kid, I read My Family and Other Animals, which got me interested in wildlife and I have been ever since. I've got tanks of praying mantids downstairs. I've been keeping praying mantids since I was about seven.
Kelly Molson:
Wow.
Charlie Read:
I've got mantids downstairs. I'm completely obsessed with trees, I grow trees. That book really shaped a lot of my outlook for my whole life, really. I also read Out of Africa when I was in my teens, which again, is about East Africa. Perhaps it's about an East Africa that once was and doesn't exist. It's a very beautiful book. That's a great book.
Charlie Read:
In terms of business, I prefer a story. The Enron story is fantastic. There's a wonderful book called The Smartest Guys in the Room, about the guys behind Enron and how that story unfolded. That's a remarkable book. I think in terms of writing, one author I love is the American crime writer, Elmore Leonard. He has a fantastic essay he did. I think it's 10 Rules of Writing. Anyone who's writing anything, it's worth reading. It's absolutely brilliant. I think the first one is, never start with the weather, which I think is a great-
Kelly Molson:
Yes, that's a good point.
Charlie Read:
Exactly. It's tons of just really great tips from a brilliant, brilliant writer. One of them again is, never used a euphemism for set. So you would never write Kelly observed or Kelly observed astutely, just Kelly said. Because it just sounds better, it's quicker. I think bad writing is when you do that.
Kelly Molson:
I love that you have recommended books that nobody else has spoken about. I really love that you've recommended books that are linked to your personal development, aside from your career development as well.
Kelly Molson:
I have to say though, that you've completely blown my marketing budget yet again. I ask everyone to recommend a book. Most people have recommended at least two books. We give them away as prizes. So if you're listening to this and you'd like to get a copy of all of Charlie's books that he's recommended, then if you head over to our Twitter account, Skip the Queue and retweet this episode announcement with the comment, "I want Charlie's books." Then you could be in with a chance of winning. I need to ask you about your praying mantis, did you say that you've got downstairs?
Charlie Read:
Yeah.
Kelly Molson:
Gosh.
Charlie Read:
They're incredible insects. There's I think 2,500 species or more around the world. They're all made to the same design, but each species is different. There's mantids camouflaged as dry grass, mantids camouflaged as sticks. The ones I've got are camouflaged as dead leaves. There's even mantids camouflaged as orchids, that live on orchid leaves. I think they're extraordinary animals, and they're really easy to keep.
Kelly Molson:
This is not tied to attractions at all. But I need to know this, Charlie.
Charlie Read:
Yeah.
Kelly Molson:
How did you first decide this is the pet for me, this is the animal for me?
Charlie Read:
Well, when I was really young, I used to get a magazine called Look and Learn in the UK, which your elder listeners will know about. It had an article about mantids. I'll always remember, it had a paragraph that said they're really easy to keep, you can simply feed them on pieces of dried vegetables. So my mum said, "Fine. That's fine. We'll get one of those." So we got one. And then as soon as we got one, we realized that that paragraph had been completely untrue and you have to feed them on live flies.
Kelly Molson:
Oh, God. I bet your mum was delighted.
Charlie Read:
Well exactly, yeah. Ever since then, I've just found them fascinating. Wherever you go in the world, if you're in a reasonably warm country, there are different species of mantids. If I'm in Singapore and I'm visiting a trade show, I'll always go off to the national parks and I'll always go off taking photographs and looking for insects.
Kelly Molson:
Oh, I love this. I'm not going to ask you to choose your favorite attraction, because that would be, I'm sure, too difficult. But does that mean that you are much more drawn to attractions that are like parks, botanical gardens, wildlife parks, that kind of thing?
Charlie Read:
I love theme parks of course, and I go to theme parks whenever I can. But we've got people who work here who are obsessed with theme parks all the time. But I wouldn't say I'm like that. But I am pretty much obsessed with botanical gardens, aquariums, and zoos. Yeah. I think the attraction I've been most to in my life is Kew Gardens.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah. I mean, it's just a beautiful place as well. I hope that they are going to do their Christmas show this year because the Christmas lights is just magical, isn't it?
Charlie Read:
Oh, the Christmas lights are fantastic.
Kelly Molson:
Yeah.
Charlie Read:
I'm supposed to be running a marathon there in September as well.
Kelly Molson:
You're a marathon runner who's just challenged me to a five-mile. I feel like this could end quite badly for me.
Charlie Read:
Oh, yeah. Make it 5K, 5K.
Kelly Molson:
All right. Thanks, Charles. Charlie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been absolutely delightful to talk to you. We will put all of the information in the show notes, especially all the information about the Blooloop Expo, which is coming up. I think it's wonderful that you're doing that just for registration. Thanks so much for everything that you've been doing for the sector throughout this, it's really appreciated.
Charlie Read:
It's a pleasure, Kelly. Thanks for inviting me along.
Kelly Molson:
Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by
Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.
The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE!
Download the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
Dr Jonathan Reed Footage 9 of 14 - Creature Eye Blinking - YouTube:
No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/pentagon-ufo-harry-reid-navy.html
Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth’:
The Pentagon Has Reportedly Found ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth’:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/ufo-report-pentagon-has-off-world-vehicles-not-from-earth.html
Joe Rogan Experience #1510 - George Knapp & Jeremy Corbell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc6pbG4wICA
Sighting on Flight 94:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRDLK74UD3I
From the AIRCAT Files:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgAEoNbfjT4
Spacecraft Over Mexico:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaKzTR29Qn8
Secret Craft, Hidden Photos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd7tTqy73Gk
The Sirius Disclosure Project:
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
Dr Jonathan Reed Alien Encounter 15 Oct 1996 Full Coverage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqA9GWpMWYc&feature=youtu.be
ODISEALINK - DR. JONATHAN REED ALIEN ENCOUNTER - Eye-lid Closer Examination - Video #13:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8f2RNuxfk
Dr. Jonathan Reed (Jonathan Rutter) Teleports with an Alien Bracelet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5XvUuPkiPE
Dr. Jonathan Reed, Author/Speaker -- Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juMDpwZFTOw
Dr. Jonathan Reed, Author/Speaker -- Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5dnAHagSA8
Dr. Jonathan Reed, Author/Speaker -- Part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIZVnHiViE
Dr. Jonathan Reed, Author/Speaker -- Part 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-P2NsJ0tU
Dr. Jonathan Reed, Author/Speaker -- Part 5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtl26YLziQ4
Jonathan Reed’s Hoax Alien:
https://www.midnighthollow.com/dr-jonathan-reeds-hoax-alien/
Jonathan Reed:
http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jonathan_reed.htm
UFO Watchdog investigates and exposes the Reed Hoax - The Dead Alien, The Doctor, and the Deception:
http://www.ufowatchdog.com/dead_alien.htm
Reed Case:
https://extraterrestrials.fandom.com/wiki/Reed_Case
Stories from an Electronics Technician (Sirius Disclosure Project):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4qQv7RasRw
UFO Buzzes Japan Airlines - FAA's Callahan Reveals (Sirius Disclosure Project):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4WTid3O0VE
Dr. Steven Greer - Sirius Disclosure:
https://siriusdisclosure.com
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
Berkshires UFO:
https://unsolved.com/gallery/berkshires-ufo/
Sheffield town crew hauls away UFO monument; ‘off-world’ witness vows to ‘file charges’:
https://theberkshireedge.com/sheffield-town-crew-hauls-away-ufo-monument-reed-vows-to-file-charges/
Who Is Thomas Reed, the Man Who Kept 1969's Berkshires UFO Sighting Alive?:
https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a33022554/who-is-thom-reed-berkshires-ufo/
A UFO story lands in a hall of history:
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Use code “UFOPOD” at checkout for 15% off:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cbgdub
Witnessed; The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions on Amazon:
A Critique of Budd Hopkins’ Case of the UFO Abduction of Linda Napolitano:
http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/LindaCortileCase.htm
The Manhattan Abduction (Linda Cortile Napolitano):
https://www.ufocasebook.com/Manhattan.html
Budd Hopkins on the Brooklyn Bridge - The Linda Case..mov:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw-LNg6tOdM&feature=emb_logo
New York, New York: the Linda Napolitano “abduction”:
https://www.eyeofthepsychic.com/cortile/
The History of the Manhattan Alien Abduction:
https://www.liveabout.com/the-manhattan-alien-abduction-3293365
Manhattan Transfer Abduction Story of Linda Cortile:
https://paranorms.com/manhattan-transfer-abduction/
The Controversial Alien Abduction Case Of Linda Cortile:
https://www.ufoinsight.com/the-controversial-alien-abduction-case-of-linda-cortile/
The Two Major Players of Budd Hopkins' Witnessed Case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBDrHTyOs8
Yancy Spence Interview with Budd Hopkins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Y6CWF58iM
1996 Budd Hopkins Hears of New Danger from Linda Cortile rev 022214:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCsBPbRXnmY
UFO Alien Abductions RARE FOOTAGE Budd Hopkins Intruders Debbie Tomey Kathie Davis Wallace Wallis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=W580PNm0nnI&feature=emb_logo
Linda Corile Case Research Site (now defunct?):
http://www.lindacortilecase.com/the-witnesses.html
http://www.lindacortilecase.com/sal-amendolas-1993-interview-with-linda-cortile.html
Follow us on Instagram at @areuforealpodcast and check us out on Facebook!
You can email us at AreUFORealPodcast@gmail.com, also don’t forget to rate us and write a review, it really helps! Thanks!
Stay up to date
For any inquiries, please email us at hello@podcastworld.io
