Podcast Summary
The relationships between organism size, heart rates, and lifespans: Larger animals live longer but have slower heartbeats due to underlying physics, explained by Jeffrey West's 'pace of life' theory in his book 'Scale'.
There are intriguing relationships between the size of biological organisms, their heart rates, and their lifespans. These relationships, known as scaling relations, have puzzled scientists for decades. Jeffrey West, a distinguished professor at the Santa Fe Institute, began his academic career as a particle physicist but became fascinated by these scaling relations and the underlying physics behind them. He and his collaborators developed a theory explaining why larger animals live longer but have slower heartbeats, a phenomenon that West refers to as the "pace of life." This theory, which has important implications for sustainability and understanding complex systems, is the focus of West's recent book, "Scale: The Universal Laws of Growth, Innovation, Sustainability, and the Pace of Life in Organisms, Cities, Economies, and Companies." By studying these scaling relations, West and others are shedding new light on the fundamental workings of the natural world.
A physicist's unconventional career: The speaker's career spanned from mainstream particle physics to tackling fundamental questions in various fields, reflecting societal changes of the time.
Throughout his career, the speaker has been a physicist, starting with mainstream particle physics in the late 60s and 70s, which was considered unconventional at the time. He was fortunate to be part of groundbreaking discoveries, like the existence of quarks, which led to the development of quantum chromodynamics. This period was filled with excitement and discoveries, culminating in the standard model. However, the speaker admits that it was a spoiled period, as they naively believed that unifying gravity with other forces would only take a few more years. The speaker also reflects on how this period mirrored the societal changes from the 50s and 60s, with the emergence of the psychedelic revolution, the Vietnam War, and the civil rights movement. Ultimately, the speaker's answer to the question of what he does for a living is that he is a physicist, but one who tackles questions outside of the usual realm of physics, including fundamental questions in biology, cities, companies, and global sustainability.
The human side of physics: Emotions and politics play a role: Despite significant discoveries, major questions in physics remain unanswered. The quest for answers led to intense focus on building larger colliders, but the community's dismissal of LHC proved ironic as it became the only game in town for discoveries.
While physics has made significant strides in confirming theories and unifications, such as the Higgs particle, there are still major questions left unanswered, particularly regarding the unification of gravity and the origin of certain parameters. The quest for answers led to a period of intense focus on building larger colliders, with the US pushing for the Superconducting Supercollider and Europe responding with the Large Hadron Collider. However, the community's dismissal of the LHC during its promotion proved to be ironic as it is now the only game in town for discoveries, and the Higgs particle was ultimately discovered there. This episode highlights the human side of physics, with emotions and politics playing a role, and the need for humility and openness to different perspectives.
Impact of Intellectual Culture on Physics and Societal Attitudes: Despite driving discoveries, the intellectual culture in physics may hinder self-reflection and collaboration. Societal attitudes towards science have also shifted, targeting high energy physics specifically. Listeners can learn a new language effectively with Babbel and manage subscriptions with Rocketmoney.
The intellectual narcissism and arrogance prevalent in the field of fundamental physics, while driving exciting discoveries and universal applicability, may have hindered self-reflection and collaboration. This culture was particularly evident during the controversy surrounding the cancellation of the Superconducting Supercollider in the 1990s, which affected the speaker deeply due to his involvement in the project. Additionally, this period marked a shift in societal attitudes towards science, with an anti-science movement targeting high energy physics specifically. Furthermore, the speaker shared some personal experiences and product recommendations. He mentioned the sound of learning a new language with Babbel as one of his favorite sounds and encouraged listeners to take advantage of a special offer for Mindscape listeners to learn a new language effectively. He also expressed frustration with the number of unwanted subscriptions draining his bank account and recommended Rocketmoney as a solution to help manage and cancel unnecessary subscriptions, ultimately saving money. In summary, the conversation touched upon the impact of the intellectual culture in physics, societal attitudes towards science, and practical tips for language learning and personal finance management.
The Importance of Physics in Biology: A physicist argues that physics' mathematical thinking and predictive theories are crucial for advancing biology and other sciences, and that integrating physics' way of thinking into biology can make it a more complete science.
During a time when high energy physics, specifically the Superconducting Super Collider (SSC), was facing funding challenges, some believed that biology would become the dominant science of the 21st century, implying that fundamental physics research was no longer necessary. The speaker, a physicist, reacted strongly against this notion, believing that physics and its culture of mathematical thinking and predictive theories were essential for advancing biology and other sciences. He also recognized the importance of integrating physics' way of thinking into biology to make it a more complete science. Personal motivations, including his own mortality and the SSC's demise, further fueled his interest in exploring biology and understanding its fundamental principles.
Discovering Scaling Laws in Longevity Research: The speaker discovered a scaling law for longevity, revealing that larger organisms have shorter lifespans relative to their size, sparking his interest in the field of aging and mortality research.
The study of aging and mortality was a neglected area in biology during the time the speaker was conducting research, with very few quantitative studies and barely any mention in textbooks. However, the speaker discovered intriguing scaling laws in the literature regarding longevity as a function of an organism's size. A scaling law, in its simplest form, is a relationship between a system's size and how a particular property of that system changes when all sizes are scaled by a constant factor. For example, if you double the size of each side of a square, the area will increase by a factor of four. Similarly, the volume of a cube increases by a factor of eight when all sides are doubled. The speaker found an approximate scaling law for longevity, which showed that larger organisms generally have shorter lifespans relative to their size. This discovery sparked the speaker's interest in the field of aging and mortality, leading him to delve deeper into the subject and contribute to the growing body of research in this area.
Scaling laws in biology reveal surprising regularities: Scientists discovered mathematically expressible scaling laws governing metabolic rate and lifespan, revealing surprising regularities in resource requirements across various organisms
Despite the historical contingency and diversity of life, there are simple, mathematically expressible scaling laws that govern various fundamental biological characteristics, such as metabolic rate and lifespan. These laws, discovered by scientists like Max Kleiber, reveal surprising regularities in how different organisms, from the smallest mammals to the largest, require resources to survive. This contrasts with the naive expectation that natural selection would result in a scatterplot of data points reflecting each organism's unique evolutionary history. However, the discovery of these scaling laws across various physiological characteristics and life history events, all with similar, simple exponents, challenges this assumption and highlights the potential intersection of physics and biology.
Shift from macroscopic to molecular focus overlooked engineering in biology: During the molecular revolution and genomic era, an overemphasis on genes and molecules led to a disregard for engineering and understanding macroscopic behavior in biology.
During the molecular revolution in biology, the focus shifted from studying scaling laws and macroscopic behavior to a fixation on genes and molecules. This attitude, while important, overlooked the need for other techniques and was seen as pejorative when applied to engineering. Similarly, during the genomic era, there was an overconfident belief that mapping the human genome would solve all health-related issues, leading to a disregard for engineering and the more complex aspects of organisms and their ecosystems. These attitudes, echoing the physics worldview, neglected the importance of understanding macroscopic behavior and engineering applications in biology.
Universal role of number 4 in biological scaling laws: Physics may provide a principled theory to explain universal biological scaling laws, as these laws may stem from a common underlying mechanism that satisfies fundamental physical principles, and organisms must efficiently sustain and service their vast networks of components.
The number 4 plays a universal role in the scaling laws of various biological phenomena, from metabolic rates to heart rates, and this discovery intrigued the speaker, a physicist, as it suggested a deep connection between physics and biology. The speaker was driven by the question of whether physics could provide a principled theory to explain these laws and make further predictions. He believed that this universal behavior stemmed from a common underlying mechanism that transcends evolved designs, and that organisms, despite their diverse forms, must satisfy these scaling laws in order to efficiently sustain and service their vast number of components, which are essentially interconnected networks. This realization led the speaker to explore the idea that the complexity and diversity of life is constrained by fundamental physical principles.
Universal principles of complex networks in the body: The circulatory system follows universal principles including space-filling, invariance of terminal units, and optimization, ensuring efficient and effective delivery of blood and oxygen to every cell.
The structures of complex networks in the body, such as the circulatory system, follow universal principles. These principles include the network being space-filling, meaning it reaches every cell, the invariance of terminal units, and something being optimized. The speaker discovered these principles while trying to understand the workings of the circulatory system using mathematical models. The space-filling property ensures that every cell is supplied with blood and oxygen. The invariance of terminal units means that natural selection keeps certain features of the network the same as it evolves different organisms. Lastly, the optimization principle is a fundamental concept in physics that applies to all levels of the network. These principles provide insight into the design and functionality of complex networks in the body.
Collaboration between physicist and biologists leads to discovery of one-quarter power law in circulatory system: Through a fruitful collaboration, a physicist and biologists discovered the one-quarter power law, which explains how the circulatory system minimizes energy usage for optimal fitness.
The evolution of the circulatory system, specifically minimizing the energy required for the heart to pump blood, is driven by the principle of maximizing an organism's Darwinian fitness. This discovery came about through a collaboration between a physicist and biologists, leading to the derivation of the one-quarter power law. The process involved a significant commitment from both parties, with long hours spent at the blackboard, explaining concepts and understanding each other's fields. The collaboration's success was attributed to the guidance of a mentor who helped the physicist recognize the importance of biological mechanisms and the right way of thinking about them.
From Scaling Laws in Biology to Fractal Networks: Collaboration, perseverance, and the pursuit of new ideas in scientific discovery can lead to profound discoveries, such as the existence of fractal networks in biological systems, which increase efficiency and have applications beyond biology.
The collaborative process of scientific discovery, despite the challenges and setbacks, can lead to groundbreaking insights and the creation of a body of work. The speaker, a physicist, shared his experience of working on scaling laws in biology, which led him to the discovery of fractal networks. He explained that these networks, which repeat themselves in a self-similar way, increase the dimensionality of biological systems and help organisms operate more efficiently. The speaker also shared how this discovery had applications beyond biology, extending to social organizations and cities. A turning point came when social scientists at the Santa Fe Institute expressed interest in his work, leading him to explore its potential in new areas. Overall, the process of scientific discovery, marked by collaboration, perseverance, and the pursuit of new ideas, can lead to profound discoveries and advancements.
Cities: Machines for Social Interaction and Innovation: Cities drive innovation and technological advancements through social interaction, and their infrastructure follows a mathematical power law, revealing an economy of scale.
Cities act as machines that facilitate social interaction and innovation, leading to groundbreaking ideas and technological advancements. Surprisingly, the most significant discoveries and inventions in human history have emerged in the last 10,000 years, and the city environment plays a crucial role in this phenomenon. The speaker's personal experiences and discoveries in urban studies led to the formation of a collaboration with a social physicist to explore how various aspects of city infrastructure, such as the number of gas stations, scale with city size. They found that these systems follow a mathematical power law, revealing an economy of scale that makes cities more efficient as they grow larger. This discovery not only sheds light on the importance of urban environments in driving innovation but also highlights the potential for further research in this area.
Cities follow optimized scaling laws for infrastructure and socio-economic quantities: Cities' growth and development are driven by optimized network systems for infrastructure and socio-economic quantities, including roads, electricity, water, and social networks, which exhibit positive feedback loops and increase per capita quantities as cities expand.
Cities, despite their unique characteristics and appearances, share similar scaling laws with infrastructure and socio-economic quantities due to their optimized network systems. These networks, including road, electrical, and water systems, optimize for factors like time and distance. Cities also differ from biology due to the presence and impact of social networks, which exhibit positive feedback loops leading to an increase in per capita quantities as cities grow in size. The physical proximity of cities may not be entirely replaced by virtual networks, but the interconnectedness and optimization of city systems remain key factors in their growth and development.
Technological advancements and societal changes: Technology's impact on society has led to societal changes, but urban planning requires careful consideration to avoid failures
Technological advancements, such as the telephone and IT revolution, have significantly impacted society by contracting time and space, allowing for more efficient communication and interaction. This has led to profound societal changes, including the expansion of cities and new infrastructure choices. However, urban planning has a checkered history and is often based on rules of thumb rather than theoretical principles. As a result, many synthetic cities have been failures, and China's current efforts to build several hundred new cities may lead to similar outcomes. Scientists, including those in fields like theoretical physics and cosmology, may not always directly improve people's lives, but their work can still have indirect and long-term impacts. It's essential to consider the historical context and potential consequences of technological and urban development when making policy decisions.
The unforeseen consequences of deep scientific research: Basic research, even in seemingly unrelated fields, can lead to profound and unforeseen consequences, revolutionizing industries and advancing knowledge in unexpected ways.
The impact of deepening our understanding of the world through scientific research, even in seemingly unrelated fields, can have profound and unforeseen consequences. This was exemplified in the story of the speaker's experience as a graduate student working with Arthur Schawlow, the co-inventor of the laser. Despite the speaker's initial skepticism about the practical applications of atomic physics research, Schawlow's work led to the development of powerful lasers that revolutionized industries and paved the way for advancements in fields such as medicine and manufacturing. Similarly, Robert Wilson's research on particle accelerators faced criticism for its perceived lack of practical applications, but ultimately led to groundbreaking discoveries and technological innovations. The speaker's experiences highlight the importance of basic research and the unpredictable ways in which it can shape the world around us.
The value of exploration and discovery for its own sake: Exploration and discovery, regardless of practical applications, are essential parts of being human and worth defending.
The pursuit of knowledge and exploration, even if it doesn't have an immediately apparent practical application, is valuable and worthwhile. Bob Wilson emphasized this during a discussion with a senator, stating that such endeavors make the United States, and indeed the world, worth defending. He drew an analogy to the average human being having 3 billion heartbeats, and the importance of making the most of them through discovery and learning. Wilson lamented the trend towards funding agencies focusing only on the immediate practical applications of research, and expressed hope that their podcast could contribute in some way. Despite his own work having practical implications, Wilson's perspective was shaped by a grand view of systems and the universe. This view, which values the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, is a reminder that exploration and discovery are essential parts of what it means to be human.