Podcast Summary
The Fascination and Impact of Games: Games, whether digital or traditional, captivate us through arbitrary rules and emotional investment, driving a thriving industry that outpaces movie spending and engages a significant portion of American households.
Learning from this podcast episode is the profound impact and fascination games have on human beings, both in digital and physical forms. Frank Lance, a renowned game designer and director of the game center at NYU, shares his insights on the nature of games and our attraction to them. Games, whether video or traditional like chess, involve creating arbitrary rules and investing emotion into the outcome. The industry is thriving, with video games outpacing movie spending, and a significant portion of American households engaging in regular gameplay. Despite the background noise and less-than-ideal recording conditions, Frank's insights shine through, offering valuable perspectives on the importance of games in our lives and the ongoing evolution of the industry.
A game is an art form of interactivity: Games are unique experiences defined by interactivity, engaging and challenging players through their choices and actions.
According to Frank Lantz, a game is a cultural category and an art form of interactivity. It's not defined by precise characteristics, but rather as a creative way to design experiences for people through their choices and actions. Interactivity is the key element that sets games apart, regardless of whether they have goals, win or loss states, or involve other people. Games offer unique experiences that engage and challenge players in meaningful ways. Frank, as a game designer and programmer, has spent his career exploring various forms of games, from location-based and social games to solo programming projects like "Universal Paperclips." His work emphasizes the importance of designing interactive experiences that resonate with people.
Music, games, and virtual worlds go beyond their functions: Music evokes emotions through sound and silence, games offer expressive spaces, and virtual worlds provide unique social experiences blurring reality lines.
The definition of music, games, and even virtual worlds extends beyond their apparent functions. Just as silence can be a part of a musical composition, games don't always have to involve goals, and virtual worlds can offer more than just a mimicry of reality. These concepts challenge traditional definitions and invite us to explore the deeper, performative aspects of these experiences. For instance, music can evoke emotions through both sound and silence, games can provide a theatrical, expressive space, and virtual worlds can offer unique social experiences that blur the lines between the virtual and the real. Ultimately, these complexities highlight the importance of understanding the nuances and contexts that shape our engagement with various forms of art and entertainment.
Experience simplified identities through sports and games: Sports and games offer freedom to express ourselves, connect with others, and tap into ancient behaviors, saving time and money with tools like Babbel and Rocket Money.
Sports and role-playing games offer an opportunity to experience simplified identities and express aspects of ourselves that may not be fully realized in our daily lives. This freedom can be beautiful and valuable, as it allows us to connect with others and even reconnect with our own abilities, such as learning a new language. The evolution of play, which includes sports and games, is deeply rooted in human behavior and predates human culture. Scholars in various fields, including anthropology, sociology, and psychology, have studied the purposes and origins of play. Through sports and games, we tap into ancient behaviors and can save money, learn new skills, and explore different identities. If you're looking to learn a new language or manage your subscriptions, consider using Babbel or Rocket Money, respectively. These tools can help you save time and money while enhancing your experiences.
The Interplay of Freedom and Structure in Games: Games offer a unique blend of freedom and structure, engaging us through the challenge of rules and the creativity of play.
Human culture and civilization have roots in play and exploration. Play is a form of free, unbounded expression where we experiment with the range of possible actions. It's the wild improvisation that goes hand in hand with rules and structure in games. Rules provide a sense of challenge and order, while play offers freedom and creativity. The combination of these two elements makes games engaging and psychologically fascinating. We invent rules and goals, and though we know they're arbitrary, we become invested in them. As players, we have the power to manipulate rules and test our abilities. Games like solitaire provide a sense of being tested and a reflection of our intelligence. Understanding this interplay between freedom and structure can help us appreciate the depth and complexity of games. For instance, comparing games like Go and poker reveals how different rule sets shape the experience and strategy.
The Art and Science of Go: Intuition and Deep Learning: Go, a 19x19 grid game, requires intuition and deep learning from humans and machines to master its vast possibilities.
Go is a deep and beautiful game that has stood the test of time for over a thousand years. It's a complex cognitive problem that requires intuition and deep insight, making it a remarkable art form. Go is also the last major game that humans are good at compared to computers, but even computers found success by letting themselves learn from the game without human intervention. The game's size, a 19x19 grid, may seem finite, but the number of possibilities is enormous. Players don't try to consider every possibility; instead, they use heuristics and intuition. When computers were introduced to the game, they initially struggled because they were trained on human games. However, when they were allowed to learn from themselves, they made significant progress. Go is a testament to the power of intuition and deep learning, whether it's from humans or machines.
Exploring problem-solving through games: Games, especially complex ones like Go, can foster self-discipline and enhance cognitive abilities. AlphaGo, an AI program that mastered Go, showcases the blend of human and artificial intelligence.
The use of games, particularly complex strategic ones like Go, can serve as a tool for self-discipline and a means for deep exploration of problem-solving and cognitive abilities. The development of AlphaGo, an AI program that mastered Go, was a result of human collaboration and ingenuity. AlphaGo's unexpected moves, which surprised even human experts, demonstrated a unique blend of inhuman and human intelligence. Games, including digital ones, can be seen as a form of artificial intelligence research, pushing individuals to devote their thinking and energy to solving intricate problems. However, it's essential to remember that games, like art, exist outside of ordinary life and should be approached with a critical perspective.
Striving for Value and Joy in Game Design: Good game designers aim to create games that offer value and joy, even with elements of darkness or addiction, recognizing the subjectivity of 'good' or 'bad' in games.
While games, including simple and seemingly addictive ones, may occupy a unique space outside of our ordinary value system, good game designers strive to create games that offer more than just compulsion. These games aim to provide value and joy, even if they contain elements of darkness or addiction. It's essential to recognize that the definition of good or bad in games is not always clear-cut, and we should avoid being overly dogmatic. Some games, like slot machines, can have destructive elements, but great games can also contain a little self-destructive energy, much like great art. Ultimately, the goal is to create games that offer meaningful experiences and leave players feeling happy and fulfilled, rather than drained and regretful.
The Addictive Nature of Games: Unpredictability and Creativity: Games, as a complex form of culture, engage our minds with unpredictability and creativity, leading to addictive behaviors. They involve trial and error and creativity, making them more than just a simple application of psychological principles.
Games are a complex form of culture that engages our minds in various ways, including elements of unpredictability and creativity, leading to their addictive nature. This is different from the concept of dark energy in cosmology. While psychologists understand that intermittent rewards contribute to addictive behaviors, game design involves a degree of trial and error and creativity, making it more than just a simple application of psychological principles. Games can even interact with our dreams, as seen in the example of David O'Reilly's "Everything." Ultimately, games are an integral part of our culture, transcending technology to provide unique experiences and insights.
Exploring the depths of engaging games: Go and poker offer contrasting yet rewarding experiences through problem-solving, understanding human psychology, and mastery or exploitation.
Engaging games, whether it's the ancient board game Go or the modern card game poker, offer players a deep sense of understanding and exploration. These games provide a balance between the desire to improve oneself and the thrill of discovery. In Go, players build a mental model of the system and experiment with different strategies, while in poker, they exploit the belief that opponents hold about their abilities. Both games require problem-solving skills and a deep understanding of human psychology, making them not only intellectually stimulating but also socially engaging experiences. The feeling of mastery and potential exploitation in poker, as well as the tranquil and deliberate nature of Go, offer contrasting yet rewarding frames of mind. Ultimately, these games challenge players to think critically, empathize with others, and continually adapt to new situations.
Poker: More than just a math problem: Poker's unpredictability and incomplete information make it a harder AI problem to solve and a more realistic game, with the allure of overcoming variance and risk.
Poker, unlike games like chess, is not just a math problem but a deeply convoluted game of conflict and modeling each other's thoughts. John Von Neumann, a brilliant mathematician, recognized this when he compared poker to games like go and chess. Poker involves a taste for variance and risk, which humans are still trying to understand. Despite the unpredictability and soul-crushing losses, the allure of poker lies in the challenge to overcome it, making it a spiritual discipline. Unlike games with a right or wrong move, poker allows for the best possible move to result in a loss. This unpredictability and incomplete information make poker a harder AI problem to solve and a more realistic game. If you want to make money playing poker, consider playing at less popular hours when people are more serious about the game.
Understanding the Psychology of Gamers: Gamers are attracted to the unpredictability and potential for loss in games, which can offer both thrill and pain.
While developing a winning strategy in games like chess or poker involves understanding the rules and potential moves, the real challenge lies in adapting to the unpredictable actions of opponents. This requires a high level of psychological insight and flexibility. As Phil Ivey, a renowned poker player, put it, the thrill of losing large sums of money is what he's addicted to. This sense of loss and the potential for unexpected outcomes are central to the appeal of gaming, whether as a player or a spectator. Games are an art form, offering a creative and expressive outlet for players, even if the experience can be destructive and painful at times. It's important to recognize and understand the motivations of those who love games, as the complexities of culture and society can make this perspective confusing for outsiders.
Understanding the Value of Video Games: Video games offer deep problem-solving, exploration, social interaction, and unique creative possibilities, making them a valuable form of entertainment and culture
Video games are more than just violent or weird entertainment for kids. They involve deep problem-solving, exploration of complex systems, hypothesis formation, and discipline. Games also have social and collaborative aspects. Although some people may argue that kids spend too much time on video games, understanding their value is the first step towards evolving into a more sophisticated audience. The video game industry is now the biggest pop cultural industry, with massive launches like Red Dead Redemption 2 being the biggest entertainment launches in history. Games offer unique creative possibilities and have become a significant part of our culture. The difference between games and other forms of mass market entertainment lies in their barrier to entry, as not everyone may be familiar with popular games. Games create immersive spaces that draw people in, and their success depends on creating engaging experiences rather than just being a spectacle. The interplay of emotion and logic is a crucial aspect of video games, making them a rich and complex form of storytelling and entertainment.
Games blend logic and emotion for a more engaging experience: Games provide a unique blend of logic and emotion, allowing for self-discovery, self-expression, and improved understanding of ourselves and others.
Games offer a unique experience where logic and emotion intertwine, creating a more engaging and meaningful experience. This isn't about a conflict between the two, but rather two different mindsets - the logical, analytical, and the emotional, intuitive, and imaginative. Chess, for example, is a game that requires analytical problem-solving but is also an art form. Even in the realm of logic, there is nuance, deep heuristics, and individual expression. Games, like chess, also challenge our understanding of logic and emotion. They highlight the ways these concepts blur together. In professional chess, players use concepts from poker, such as predicting opponents' moves and bluffing. Games provide opportunities for self-discovery and self-expression. They help us learn about ourselves and improve as individuals. Each game offers a unique perspective, allowing us to explore different aspects of our personalities. So, whether you're playing a strategic board game or an open-world video game, remember that logic and emotion are intertwined, and each experience offers valuable insights.
Exploring personal growth and self-discovery through gaming: Games offer unique opportunities for self-improvement and understanding, with immersive experiences continually evolving and social aspects enhancing the experience.
Games offer a unique opportunity for personal growth and self-discovery. They allow us to challenge ourselves, improve our skills, and explore new ideas. The history of game design shows that we are getting better at creating immersive and meaningful experiences. However, this process is not straightforward and involves a constant evolution of methods and best practices. Moreover, games can help us become more conscious of processes that were once unconscious. For instance, games like "QWOP" by Bennett Foddy challenge us to control our body movements in complex ways, leading to a deeper understanding of our own physical abilities. Regarding the future of gaming, it is impossible to predict with certainty. Some believe that games will continue to grow as a major form of entertainment, while others argue that they will become integrated into everyday life, blurring the lines between different forms of media. For those who have never tried gaming, the best way to start is by finding a game that your friends are playing and joining the community around it. The social aspect of gaming can be just as important as the game itself, providing opportunities for learning and growth.
The social experience of playing games is essential: Games bring people together, create meaningful interactions, and the experience of playing with great company can make even an average game worthwhile
The social experience of playing games is just as important, if not more so, than the game itself. Games are unique in their ability to bring people together and create meaningful interactions. The idea of a "masterpiece" game may not fully capture the essence of gaming, as games are participatory and evanescent by nature. It's not about finding the perfect game to play in isolation, but rather finding a game that fits within a social context where you can engage with others and learn from their perspectives. Even if the game itself isn't the best, the experience of playing it with great company can make it worthwhile. So, next time you're deciding which game to play, consider the people you'll be playing with and the potential for a rich, social experience. As the world of gaming continues to evolve, the focus on community and connection is becoming increasingly important. Thank you, Frank Lance, for sharing your insights on this topic. And a big thank you to Santa Fe and the Interplanetary Festival for hosting us. And a heartfelt thank you to the audience for joining us on this journey. It's been a pleasure.