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    Bill Kristol and Ben Wittes: A Subversive Enterprise

    en-usMarch 18, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Former President Trump's actions at rally evoke authoritarian and fascist movementsTrump's salute and treatment of Capitol rioters as 'hostages' during a rally echoed authoritarian and fascist behaviors, creating an unsettling parallel to history.

      During a recent speech, former President Trump's actions of saluting and treating convicted Capitol rioters as "hostages" at his rally felt reminiscent of authoritarian and fascist movements, such as Nazi Germany. This behavior, which included the garbled singing of a self-proclaimed martyr's song, undermines respect for the country and its traditions. The scene evoked a sense of un-American behavior and disregard for the rule of law. Trump's actions, while not directly equated to those of a dictator, felt unsettlingly similar. The comparison may seem extreme, but the conflation of a self-proclaimed martyr's song with the national anthem, along with the standing and saluting, creates a concerning parallel.

    • Political use of 'bloodbath' and comparisons to fascist regimesFormer President Trump's use of 'bloodbath' raised interpretations as a threat or figurative expression, while comparisons to fascist regimes require nuanced analysis. Debates around national anthems and flags underscore complex questions of identity, nationalism, and unity.

      The use of the term "bloodbath" in political contexts can be subject to various interpretations, and it's essential to consider the context in which it is being used. During a recent speech, former President Trump used the term, causing a stir in the media. Some interpreted it as a veiled threat, while others believed it was merely a figurative expression about the state of the economy. However, it's crucial to remember that Trump's use of language often differs from that of other politicians, and his statements should be evaluated in the broader context of his actions and policies. Moreover, the discussion touched upon the comparison of certain political behaviors to fascist regimes, acknowledging the seriousness of such comparisons but also recognizing the need for nuanced analysis. The debate around the singing of the Black National Anthem at the Super Bowl and the display of a new flag with a blue line were also mentioned as issues that raise complex questions about identity, nationalism, and unity. Lastly, the conversation highlighted the importance of understanding the implications of political rhetoric and the potential consequences of divisive language. It's crucial for individuals and media outlets to approach such discussions with care and context, recognizing the potential for misunderstandings and the need for clear communication.

    • Trump's Controversial Use of the Pardon PowerTrump's pardons of individuals involved in illegal activities and his rhetoric around the pardon power create concerns for potential violence and disregard for the rule of law.

      Donald Trump's use of the pardon power, as seen in his pardons of Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, and Roger Stone, among others, raises serious concerns about incitement to violence and disregard for the rule of law. These pardons were granted to individuals who had engaged in illegal activities, some of which involved collusion with foreign governments, and who had not fully cooperated with investigations. Trump's rhetoric around the pardon power and his history of refusing to accept election results create an environment where some people might take his comments about a potential "bloodbath" after an election literally. The timing and circumstances of these pardons, particularly Manafort's, which came during a period of political unrest, further highlight the potential dangers. Trump's continued association with these individuals, despite their past actions, adds to the concerning picture.

    • Manafort's return raises concerns for American democracyTrump's actions, including collusion with Russia and inflammatory language, threaten democratic institutions and the rule of law, while the GOP's silence is concerning.

      Paul Manafort's reemergence in Donald Trump's inner circle raises concerns about the potential subversion of American democracy, as Manafort had colluded with Russian intelligence during the 2016 election and was pardoned for lying about it. Mike Pence, who has expressed dismay about Trump's actions, is one of the few Republicans speaking out against this, but his criticisms have been vague. The GOP's reluctance to address the issue highlights the seriousness of the situation. Trump's actions, including his use of inflammatory language regarding the January 6th Capitol attack and hostages, are a threat to democratic institutions and the rule of law. Mike Pence, while not endorsing Joe Biden, has shown some progress in acknowledging these issues. However, it's important to remember that Trump's actions go beyond just abortion or budget balancing, and the GOP's silence on these matters is concerning.

    • Trump's Rally for Himself after Capitol InsurrectionDespite the Capitol insurrection, Trump showed no regret and continued to support the event, raising concerns from former officials who spoke out against him, indicating a potential hyperaggressive second term.

      The events of January 6, 2021, at the Capitol were not just an accident or a Trump-adjacent event, but rather a rally for Trump himself. This is evident from the fact that even after the insurrection, there was no regret or distancing from the event from Trump and his campaign. Former officials, including his Vice President and Defense Secretary, have spoken out against him, expressing concern over his willingness to flout norms and rules, and even suggesting the use of force against American citizens. These developments are unprecedented and highlight the hyperaggressive behavior and disregard for established institutions that could define a potential second Trump term. It's important to note that these officials, such as Esper, were not known for being particularly outspoken or oppositional to Trump, but felt compelled to speak out due to their concerns. This is a significant departure from the mainstream Republican stance and a clear indication of the potential direction of a Trump presidency. The fact that these revelations came to light in the wake of the Capitol insurrection underscores the gravity of the situation.

    • Potential actions by Trump after election and concerns over Insurrection ActFormer President Trump may try to seize control of national security sectors and invoke the Insurrection Act, raising concerns for potential misuse. His own officials and Vice President have spoken out against him, highlighting the importance of promoting their voices and finding anti-Trump Republicans.

      The actions of former President Trump after losing an election could potentially include attempting to seize control of national security sectors and invoking the Insurrection Act. This was a concern raised by former Defense Secretary Esper, who was fired just days after the election. The use of the Insurrection Act, which allows the deployment of US troops on domestic soil, is alarming due to its vague nature and the potential for misuse. It's important for individuals to understand that even Trump's own vice president and top officials have spoken out against him and believe he should not be given power again. Efforts to promote these voices and find Republicans who have spoken out against Trump could help sway voters in future elections. Other developments include House Republican leader Tom Emmer being criticized for suggesting he would not extend a State of the Union invitation to President Biden if he wins re-election.

    • Political leaders' controversial commentsRepublican Tom Emmer's past actions raise concerns, Schumer's call for Israeli elections sparks controversy, and the speaker discusses Kate Middleton's refusal to engage with a UK tabloid, highlighting the complexities of political leadership and international relations.

      Political leaders from both sides of the aisle have faced criticism for their recent comments. Tom Emmer, the Republican who oversaw the State of the Union response following the Capitol attack, has been suggested as a potential future leader, but his past actions and potential motivations have raised concerns. Chuck Schumer, on the other hand, called for new elections in Israel, which sparked controversy among pro-Israel Republicans. The speaker also expressed ambivalence towards Schumer's comments, acknowledging the divisiveness of the current Israeli government but also the unusual nature of a leader suggesting elections in another country. Lastly, the speaker brought up Kate Middleton's ongoing refusal to engage with a UK tabloid, The Sun, and suggested it could be an opportunity to challenge the monarchy. Overall, these discussions highlighted the complexities and controversies surrounding political leadership and international relations.

    • Labor Party's stance on monarchy and Meghan Markle's hypothetical prime minister roleThe Labor Party in the UK has a long history of not being anti-monarchy or anti-crown. The idea of Meghan Markle becoming the prime minister and the country becoming a republic is a hypothetical concept, not supported by the current political climate.

      The Labor Party in the United Kingdom has a long history of not being anti-monarchy or anti-crown, despite some recent speculation. The idea of Meghan Markle becoming the prime minister and the country becoming a republic is a hypothetical concept, and the current political climate does not seem to favor such a change. Meanwhile, Ben Wittes, a journalist and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, has been officially sanctioned by Russia. Despite the humor he found in the situation, he acknowledged that visiting Russia under the current government would not be possible due to the sanctions. The sanctions have not significantly impacted him, as he has always wanted to visit Russia under different circumstances. Regarding Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, there was a positive sentiment towards him during the discussion. He was described as "great" and well-liked. The focus of the conversation then shifted towards the upcoming Trump trials.

    • Congressional debate on Ukraine funding: Depressing and EncouragingCongressional debate on Ukraine funding remains contentious, but potential movement within GOP could lead to a vote and crucial funding for Ukraine. Meanwhile, a delay in the electoral interference case against Trump in Fulton County, GA, could either slow or expedite the process.

      The situation regarding Ukraine funding in Congress is both depressing and encouraging. The depressing aspect is the ongoing debate and the human cost of the delay in providing crucial funding to Ukraine. The encouraging sign comes from potential movement within the Republican Party to hold a vote on Ukraine funding. Mike Johnson's openness to discussion is a step towards finding a face-saving solution for the administration and those who support Ukraine. In other news, the electoral interference case against Donald Trump in Fulton County, Georgia, experienced a delay due to a judge's ruling that one of the prosecutors, Nathan Wade, cannot continue on the case. While this may cause a delay, it could also potentially expedite the process by eliminating Wade's involvement. However, the case is unlikely to be resolved before the election.

    • Georgia Election Interference Case Delays Likely to Extend Beyond ElectionsJudge McAfee's trial with 15 defendants in the Fulton County election interference case is facing significant delays, unlikely to start before August, and unlikely for a verdict before the upcoming elections.

      The Fulton County election interference case in Georgia, which involves Trump and his allies, is facing significant delays due to various obstacles, and it's unlikely that the trial will begin before August, making it unlikely for a verdict before the upcoming elections. Judge McAfee, who is presiding over the case, is moving things along at a relatively quick pace compared to some other judges in similar cases, but he has a challenging task with 15 defendants. The speaker expressed frustration towards Fani Willis and Nathan Wade for their handling of the case, which has allowed Trump to use it to his advantage. The comparison was drawn between Willis and Bill Clinton due to her exceptional talent and unwillingness to compromise, even when it could have saved her from potential harm. Another delay was discussed in the context of the documents case, where the former president's team made a "breathtakingly baseless" claim, but Judge Eileen Cannon still plans to consider the arguments, despite their seemingly straightforward nature.

    • Legal proceedings against Trump see delays and new developmentsThe New York trial is likely to be delayed until April or May, while no trial will occur before the election. The Washington case remains uncertain, adding complexity to Trump's legal landscape.

      The legal proceedings against Donald Trump are ongoing and evolving, with several cases seeing delays and new developments. In the Stormy Daniels case in New York, a large number of documents from the federal investigation have been turned over to the defense, leading to a request for a delay in the trial. The defense argues this is a discovery abuse, while the prosecutors disagree. The judge has ordered a delay, and the length of it will be determined on March 25th. The broader legal calendar suggests one high-probability event is the New York trial, which is likely to happen in April or early May instead of late March. Another certainty is that there will be no trial in Eileen Cannon's courtroom between now and the election. The wild cards include the Washington trial, which could be the most important case, but its outcome remains uncertain. Overall, the legal landscape for Trump remains complex and uncertain, with several cases ongoing and potential new developments on the horizon.

    • Legal proceedings against Trump for Capitol riots uncertain before electionJudge Chutkan eager to progress cases, but only one trial can be conducted at a time, making it unlikely for Trump to be convicted of multiple charges before the election.

      The legal proceedings against Donald Trump related to the Capitol riots are moving quickly but it's uncertain how many trials will be completed before the upcoming election. Judge Chutkan is eager to progress the cases, but only one trial can be conducted at a time. It's unlikely that Trump will be convicted of multiple charges before the election. Ben Wittes, a guest on the podcast, has been closely following the cases and provided insights into the current status. Despite efforts to sensationalize the situation, the outcome remains uncertain. The Bullwark podcast is dedicated to discussing important political and legal issues, and will continue to provide updates as the trials progress.

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