Logo

    Israelis anticipate the response — with Haviv Rettig Gur

    enAugust 05, 2024
    What actions has Israel taken against Iran's targets?
    How do Israelis feel about the potential Iranian response?
    What is the role of the U.S. in this conflict?
    How does Israel's military doctrine influence its strategy?
    What factors could lead to a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel?

    Podcast Summary

    • Israel-Iran standoffTensions between Israel and Iran remain high, with Israel taking bold actions and Iran potentially considering a response that could lead to escalation, raising the possibility of a regional war. Israeli public supports government's assertiveness but fears enemy's implacability, with U.S. role a significant factor.

      Both Israel and Iran are in a tense standoff, with Israel taking bold actions against high-value targets in Iran and Iran potentially considering a counter move that could lead to escalation. The mood among Israelis is a mix of anxiety and acceptance, as they prepare for a possible response from Iran. Israelis generally support the government's assertiveness, but there's a sense that this enemy is undeterrable and implacable. The question remains whether Iran will respond in a way that can be contained or if it will escalate massively, potentially leading to a regional war. The U.S. role in this situation is also a significant factor.

    • Israel-Hezbollah conflictIsraelis aim to impose costs on Hezbollah while avoiding a large-scale war, with recent escalation leading to popular support for stronger action. Iran's involvement adds complexity, and there are concerns about potential retaliation. The goal is to inflict costs directly on Hezbollah, not harm civilians.

      The ongoing conflict between Israel and Hezbollah is seen as a long-term war of attrition by the enemy, with the belief that Israel's society will eventually collapse due to unwillingness to sacrifice. Israelis, however, want to exact costs on Hezbollah but avoid a large-scale war. The recent escalation of violence has been seen as a turning point, with popular support for imposing costs on Hezbollah. The Iranian regime is a significant player in this conflict, and there are concerns about potential Iranian retaliation. Some argue that the recent targeted killing of a Hamas leader could negatively impact hostage negotiations, but others believe it puts more pressure on Hamas to negotiate. Ultimately, the goal is to impose costs on the enemy directly, rather than causing harm to innocent civilians in Lebanon and Yemen. The conflict is complex, with various perspectives from different stakeholders, and a resolution remains elusive.

    • Hamas leader's actionsHamas leader Yahya Sinwar's desperation could lead to drastic measures, escalating the situation and potentially causing a larger regional conflict

      The current situation in Gaza and the potential for a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel is largely dependent on the actions and motivations of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. Sinwar's desperation and need for leverage have led him to consider drastic measures, including the potential release of hostages or even killing a hostage on video. Such actions could escalate the situation and lead to increased Israeli military action, potentially resulting in a larger regional conflict. Despite Hamas's weakened capabilities, the regional context and historical precedents suggest that the current moment could be comparable to past existential conflicts for Israel. The potential for a serious and prolonged war is a real concern, and the outcome remains uncertain.

    • Iran-Israel conflictThe Iranian Revolutionary Guard's focus on exporting the revolution and Israel's strategic decision to disrupt these capabilities may lead to a devastating war, as Israel's military doctrine may not be prepared for a long, large-scale conflict

      The current conflict between Israel and its enemies, particularly Iran, has reached a critical point where decisive action is required to prevent a devastating war. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard's primary mission is to safeguard the regime and export the revolution, with a significant focus on Israel. The West, including Israel, has allowed Iran to prioritize exporting the revolution over addressing internal issues, leading to the buildup of capabilities and proxies. Israel has recently made a strategic decision to disrupt these capabilities and take the fight to their sources, rather than reacting to attacks. However, the potential for escalation is high, and Israel's military doctrine has historically focused on short, quick wars away from civilian populations and Israeli territory. The capacity for long, large-scale wars is not a strength of Israel's military. The Middle East should be concerned about the potential for a serious conflict, and it remains to be seen if Israel is prepared for a war against Iran that could involve significant escalation.

    • New Israeli Strategic EnvironmentIsrael faces new enemies using unconventional tactics, prolonging wars, and attempting nuclear standoffs. Iran can produce material for 15 nuclear bombs, and Israel needs new doctrines and potentially allies to counter these threats.

      Israel is facing a new strategic environment where its enemies are using tactics that are the opposite of what Israel has historically been prepared for. These enemies are forcing fights onto Israeli territory, prolonging wars, and attempting to initiate a nuclear standoff. Iran, in particular, now has the capability to produce material for 15 nuclear bombs, and the question is whether Israel can effectively counter this new kind of enemy. The success of Israel in preventing wars in the past has driven its enemies to adapt and build strategies that Israel has not yet faced. Israel must now build new doctrines to meet this challenge and find new ways to counter these threats. The army has shown its ability to defeat Hamas in Gaza, but the question remains whether Israel can do it alone or if it needs the support of allies. The Trump administration's maximum pressure campaign and economic sanctions had some effect, but a new approach is needed in this new period where Iran is on the move and coordinating with Russia and China to challenge American hegemony in the Middle East. America must reconsider its role in supporting Israel in this new strategic environment.

    • US communication with IsraelInconsistent US messaging towards Israel regarding military actions in Gaza could escalate regional tensions and raise questions about US competence and commitment

      The current tensions between Israel and its neighbors, particularly regarding Israel's military actions in Gaza, have led to conflicting messages from the US administration. On one hand, the US has warned Israel against certain strategies and urged targeted operations instead. On the other hand, Israel has taken actions that align with these recommendations, only to face criticism from the US. This inconsistent messaging could potentially escalate tensions in the region, as adversaries may view US criticism as a sign of weakness or indecision. Furthermore, the US's perceived inability to effectively communicate a clear strategy to Israel raises concerns about America's competence and commitment to the region. Ultimately, clear and consistent communication from the US is crucial to de-escalating tensions and maintaining stability in the Middle East.

    • Middle East ConflictHezbollah and Iran's intent to cause significant damage to Israel through drone strikes and potential responses, while Hamas intentionally escalates the situation, leaving Israel to defend itself and potentially leading to a larger conflict

      The current geopolitical situation in the Middle East, particularly between Israel and its enemies like Hezbollah and Iran, is complex and dangerous. Hezbollah's capabilities and strategies, such as planning a massive drone strike against Israeli Air Force bases, demonstrate their intent to cause significant damage to Israel. Iran, on the other hand, is believed to be preparing a response to Israel's actions, but its competence and capabilities are uncertain. The West's perceived inability to respond effectively to these threats has emboldened these enemies, who believe they can act with impunity. Israel, meanwhile, is left with few options but to defend itself, potentially leading to a larger regional conflict. Hamas, a Palestinian militant group, intentionally escalated the situation in Gaza to draw Israel into a larger conflict and save itself. Ultimately, the outcome of this situation is uncertain, but the stakes are high, and a miscalculation could lead to catastrophic consequences.

    • Israel-Iran war survivalSurviving a war between Israel and Iran would give Israel a significant advantage, but long-term implications depend on the extent of damage and political consequences.

      Survival is the key to victory in a potential war between Israel and Iran. While the dangers to Israel are significant, the risks for Iran are astronomical. The Iranian regime's goal is Israel's destruction, so merely surviving a war would give Israel a tremendous advantage. However, if the Iranian regime remains intact at the end of a war, with its military and nuclear capabilities still significant, the long-term impact on Israel may not be a clear victory. The war's outcome would depend on various factors, including the extent of damage to both sides and the political consequences. Ultimately, a political solution, international pressure, or a combination of both may be more effective in resolving the conflict than a kinetic war.

    Recent Episodes from Call Me Back - with Dan Senor

    One Year Since October 7th - with Douglas Murray

    One Year Since October 7th - with Douglas Murray
    Visit our website: https://arkmedia.org/ This conversation on YouTube: https://youtu.be/O7F7Pq-XI40 Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/5n8kcm5m UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS: If you are interested in our upcoming Call Me Back live events, you can find further registration details here: PHILADELPHIA-AREA — September 9 — Join us this Monday night in Lower Merion, just outside of Philadelphia, for a discussion about Israel, the Middle East and the U.S.-Israel relationship with combat veteran and national security expert Dave McCormick, who is running for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania. To register, please go to: Dan-and-Dave.eventbrite.com NEW YORK CITY — September 24 — Join us for the first major live recording of Call Me Back, held at the Streicker Center, co-sponsored by UJA Federation of NY, and featuring Amir Tibon on the official launch date of his book The Gates of Gaza: A Story of Betrayal, Survival, and Hope in Israel's Borderlands. To register, please go to: streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor NEW EPISODE / NEW SERIES Since October 7th, on this podcast we have tried to present Israel’s dilemmas and challenges as Israel responded to a genocidal attack from Gaza and what is now a multi-front war. We have tried to do this by talking to Israelis – Israeli journalists, political figures, historians and other thought leaders, and different people from Israel’s civil society. We have tried to provide historical context and perspectives from various actors in the U.S.-Israel relationship from both sides of that relationship. We did not think we would still be recording these episodes – with this focus – for one year. And yet, here we are — approaching the one-year anniversary of October 7, which will be regarded as one of the darkest days in Jewish history (and one of the darkest days in the history of Western Civilization). Most of our episodes have been shaped by weekly and daily news developments. But as we approach the one-year anniversary, we wanted to take a step back, and spend extended time with a few of our previous guests and thought leaders who are not our go-to analysts. We asked each one of them to take a longer horizon perspective, to look back at this past year and the year ahead. In each conversation, we will try to understand the larger lessons these guests have learned as we approach this grim milestone. If you are listening to this episode on a podcast app, please note that this series was filmed in a studio and is also available in video form on our YouTube channel. You can find a link here: https://youtu.be/O7F7Pq-XI40. We begin this series with a conversation with Douglas Murray – war journalist, columnist, and bestselling author. We will be dropping one of these long-form conversations with a different guest each week between now and the first couple weeks after 10/07. On Sunday, September 8, Douglas Murray will kick off his first ever US Tour with Live Nation. Long before Oct 7, Douglas was a widely read journalist, bestselling author, and one of the most prescient intellectuals in the world. Since Oct 7, he has also become one of the strongest voices for Israel and the Jewish people. Douglas will be sharing experiences from his time in Israel post October 7, including never before seen footage from his time in Israel. On September 8, he will be at the Parker Playhouse in Fort Lauderdale. On September 10, he’ll be at the Fillmore Miami Beach. On September 11, the Warner Theatre in Washington DC. On September 23, The Wiltern in Los Angeles. On September 29, the Beacon Theatre in New York City. And on October 13, Paramount Theatre in Denver. The evening will be filled with great pride for am yisrael and hope for the future. Some shows are sold out or very near sold out. Tickets can be purchased through Live Nation’s website: https://shorturl.at/yilaw

    Bibi’s message vs Bibi the messenger - with Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal

    Bibi’s message vs Bibi the messenger - with Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/yc2pck68 *** In recent days, there has been intensifying debate inside Israel over whether the security concerns raised by Prime Minister Netanyahu (regarding the Philadelphi Corridor along the Egypt-Gaza border) are legitimate or just sand being thrown in the gears of the hostage negotiations? Are there actual substantive objections to the concerns the Prime Minister is raising, or are the concerns really just with Netanyahu himself? Is the problem the message? Or the messenger? We are joined by Amit Segal. He is the chief political correspondent and analyst for Channel 12 News, and for Yediot Ahronot, the country’s largest circulation newspaper. NADAV EYAL who is a columnist Yediiot. Eyal is one of Israel’s leading journalists. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. Amit and Nadav often debate in Hebrew on Israeli television…this is the first time they are debating like this in English, and they wound up debating a number of other – more raw – issues that cut to some of the divisions in Israeli society today over the war. I learned a lot from both of them. Register for the September 24th Call me Back Live at the Streicker Center in New York with special guest Amir Tibon: https://streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor

    The execution of six hostages - with Haviv Rettig Gur & Wendy Singer

    The execution of six hostages - with Haviv Rettig Gur & Wendy Singer
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/39yxftr6 *** Over the past 24 hours we learned the devastating news about Hamas’s slaughtering of 6 hostages. The families of two of these hostages – Hersh Goldberg-Polin and Carmel Gat had been guests on this podcast over the past few months. The news of these executions followed news in Israel last Thursday of a heated debate within the security cabinet over a clause that the prime minister had introduced – to be voted on – into the negotiations over any final deal. Some critics are arguing that the introduction of that clause was part of a pattern that doomed the negotiations. Last night, hundreds of thousands of Israelis took to the streets to protest – among other things – these moves by Israel’s Government. Others inside Israel are arguing that the principles that the Prime Minister is establishing in these negotiations are necessary conditions for Israel to defeat Hamas and prevent another October 7th-like war being launched (at least from Gaza). This is the debate happening inside Israel right now. To better understand each of these positions we had a conversation on Sunday morning with Haviv Rettig Gur from the Time of Israel from Jersuaelm. But before we listen to the conversation with Haviv, we want to play for you a conversation I had late at night Israel time on Sunday night, with Wendy Singer, a Jersusalemite who is part of the Goldberg-Polins' community in Baka, their neighborhood in Jerusalem. In the days ahead, we’ll hear from others connected to those six hostages murdered. Wendy Singer is an advisor to several Israeli high-tech start-ups, including Re-Milk — https://www.remilk.com/ Wendy was the executive director of Start-Up Nation Central since its founding in 2013 — https://startupnationcentral.org/ Previously, she was the director of AIPAC’s Israel office for 16 years and served in AIPAC’s Washington office before immigrating to Israel in 1994. Earlier in her career, Wendy was a foreign policy advisor in the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives. Haviv Rettig Gur is the political analyst at The Times of Israel. He was a long time reporter for the Times of Israel. Haviv was also a combat medic in the IDF where he served in the reserves.

    Rahm Emanuel

    Rahm Emanuel
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/yc4a9uvh *** Our interests in the Indo-Pacific, Russia-Ukraine, and the Middle East are all interconnected. A regional war in one, could easily trip into a regional war in another — and in some cases actors in one region are already being supported by regional actors from another. Just follow the moves of Beijing, Moscow and Tehran. Rahm Emanuel has been an energetic diplomat in one of those regions — the Indo-Pacific. He is the U.S. ambassador to Japan. In addition to being a diplomatic and policy practitioner, he has also been an often astute — and sometimes provocative — analyst of the Chinese Government and its moves. Rahm also has deep roots in American Jewish life and with Israel. He has a lot to say about the lessons he took away from serving in the Clinton administration, where he was involved in President Clinton’s efforts at a two-state solution during the Oslo and Camp David processes. Rahm also served 4 terms in Congress, where he was a member of the House Democratic Leadership. He was President Obama’s chief of staff for the first two years of the Obama administration, before returning to Chicago to run for mayor, where he served for two terms. To read Rahm’s piece mentioned in the episode: https://japan-forward.com/lessons-from-israel-timely-for-japan/ Follow Rahm on X: https://x.com/USAmbJapan Register for Call me Back Live at the Streicker Center: https://streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor

    ISRAEL PREEMPTIVELY STRIKES HEZBOLLAH – with Nadav Eyal & Ronen Bergman

    ISRAEL PREEMPTIVELY STRIKES HEZBOLLAH – with Nadav Eyal & Ronen Bergman
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/bdd5bvp8 *** Early this morning, after detecting preparations by Hezbollah to launch a large-scale attack, Israel launched a powerful preemptive strike on southern Lebanon. Hours after these events took place, I was joined by Nadav Eyal and Ronen Bergman to make sense of what has taken place, and to discuss possible scenarios moving forward. Ronen Bergman is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine and Senior Correspondent for Military and Intelligence Affairs for Yedioth Ahronoth, an Israeli daily. Ronen recently won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on this war and the pre-war intelligence failures. Nadav Eyal is a columnist for Yediot. He has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news.

    A Deal on the Verge of Collapse – with Nadav Eyal

    A Deal on the Verge of Collapse – with Nadav Eyal
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/p5dfbxxw *** As Israelis continue to brace for a kinetic strike from Iran, or Hezbollah, or both, this long-anticipated attack may have been put on hold by Tehran while Israel and Hamas were negotiating the last details of a hostage and temporary ceasefire deal. Now, as we learn today from our guest Nadav Eyal, that deal appears to be slipping away. Nadav Eyal is a columnist for Yediot. He has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. Register for Call me Back Live at the Streicker Center in New York: https://streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor

    A new (and bolder) approach to Iran? – with Mark Dubowitz

    A new (and bolder) approach to Iran? – with Mark Dubowitz
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/bdze4khv *** Mark Dubowitz reports from Tel Aviv after over a month in Israel discussing Israel’s emerging (and bolder) approach to Iran. Mark is the CEO of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD). In his role, he has advised the Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden administrations and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, and he has testified more than twenty times before the U.S. Congress and foreign legislatures. A former venture capitalist and technology executive, Mark holds a master’s degree in international public policy from Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies. To read Mark’s recent piece in the Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/opinion/israels-approach-to-iran-may-be-getting-bolder-f4c2c5f2?st=26ve823zvaeilzf&reflink=article_copyURL_share FDD’s Iranian Protest Tracker Map: https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/01/27/mapping-the-protests-in-iran-2/ Register for Call me Back Live at the Streicker Center in New York: https://streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor

    Holding Pattern(s) – with Jonathan Schanzer

    Holding Pattern(s) – with Jonathan Schanzer
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/4wzexubr *** Israelis are stuck in a tense holding pattern, each day waiting for a response from Iran, or Hezbollah, or both - an attack that was expected to occur last week, then later forecasted to occur over Tisha B’Av. And yet, each day… nothing. What is going on — in Tehran? In Jerusalem? And in Washington D.C.? At the same time, there is a similar pattern in the hostage negotiations. Today, senior officials from Israel, the U.S., Qatar and Egypt met in Doha to resume negotiations for a Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal - talks, as we are learning, that will continue into tomorrow. Israel seems to be on the brink of major developments - and yet, Israelis are left questioning: when will they occur? And against that backdrop: is Israel on offense, or is Israel on defense? To help us assess all of this from a broader strategic perspective, our guest is Dr. Jonathan Schanzer, who is senior vice president for research at Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Jon previously worked as a terrorism finance analyst at the U.S. Department of the Treasury, where he played an integral role in the designation of numerous terrorist financiers. Jon's latest book is "Gaza Conflict 2021: Hamas, Israel and Eleven Days of War". His other books include: "State of Failure: Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas, and the Unmaking of the Palestinian State", and "Hamas vs. Fatah: The Struggle for Palestine". Jonathan has studied Middle East history in four countries. He earned his PhD from King’s College London, where he wrote his dissertation on the U.S. Congress and its efforts to combat terrorism in the 20th century. He speaks Arabic and Hebrew. To watch the FDD Morning Brief, hosted by Jon: https://www.fdd.org/fddmorningbrief/ Register for Call me Back Live at the Streicker Center in New York: https://streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor

    Hostage Deal? Iran Attack? And Tisha B’Av - with Haviv Rettig Gur & Nadav Eyal

    Hostage Deal? Iran Attack? And Tisha B’Av - with Haviv Rettig Gur & Nadav Eyal
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/2awmrwwr *** Against the backdrop of a possible Iran/Hezbollah attack, as well as international criticism of an IDF operation in Gaza City, there have been new developments in the hostage negotiations. This past Thursday, a multi-party statement was issued by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar, declaring that the framework of a hostage deal was nearly complete, and urging Israel and Hamas to finalize the deal without further delay. Soon after, Prime Minister Netanyahu’s office issued a statement that Israel would send its team to the now scheduled August 15th negotiations. Hamas had indicated its intention to participate as well. Now, suddenly, Hamas is reversing its decision. Although, at least according to some sources, this reversal may be last minute posturing by Hamas. Either way, the sudden acceleration of the process does make this dynamic seem different from previous rounds. To discuss all of these issues, we are joined by Call me Back regulars: -Nadav Eyal is a columnist for Yediot. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. -Haviv Rettig Gur has been a regular presence on this podcast since October 8. He is a senior political analyst for the Times of Israel, and has been an important interpreter for Western audiences of how to understand this conflict in broader historical terms. To register for Call me Back Live featuring Amir Tibon at the Streicker Center: https://streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor To visit our website: https://arkmedia.org/

    What's the Iran strategy? - with Nadav Eyal and Matt Levitt

    What's the Iran strategy? - with Nadav Eyal and Matt Levitt
    *** Share episode on X: https://tinyurl.com/56nzhy97 *** HOUSEKEEPING NOTE: I’m pleased to announce a major live recording of Call Me Back in New York City on September 24th. The event will be held at the Streicker Center, co-sponsored by UJA Federation of NY, and my guest will be Amir Tibon on the official launch date of his book The Gates of Gaza: A Story of Betrayal, Survival, and Hope in Israel's Borderlands. In his new book, Amir tells the gripping story of the Tibon family’s ordeal at Kibbutz Nahal Oz on October 7 and the heroic rescue by Amir’s father, retired General Noam Tibon. Woven throughout the book is Amir’s own expertise as a longtime journalist in Israel and in Washington, the history of Kibbutz Nahal Oz, and the conflict between Israel and Gaza. The story has previously been featured on 60 Minutes and it is also being developed in a feature film by Avi Issacharoff and Lior Raz. We are excited to bring this program – with our partners at The Streicker Center and UJA Federation of NY – to the Call Me Back audience. To register, please go to streicker.nyc/events/tibon-senor TODAY’S EPISODE: Tensions have been high in Israel over the past week, as Israelis brace for a response from Iran and Hezbollah, following last week’s assassinations of Ismail Haniyeh in Iran and Fuad Shukr in Lebanon. This attack was anticipated to have already taken place, and may happen at any moment. To help us understand the extent to which Israel and the U.S. have prepared for this new phase, we are joined by Nadav Eyal and Matt Levitt. Nadav Eyal is a columnist for Yediot. He has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. Dr. Matthew Levitt is the director of the Program on Counterterrorism and Intelligence at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He served as deputy assistant secretary for intelligence and analysis at the U.S. Department of the Treasury. During his tenure at Treasury, he played a central role in efforts to protect the U.S. financial system from abuse and to deny terrorists, weapons proliferators, and other rogue actors the ability to finance threats to U.S. national security. He later served as a counterterrorism advisor to the special envoy for Middle East regional security. Previously, Matt was a counterterrorism intelligence analyst at the FBI, where he provided tactical and strategic analytical support for counterterrorism operations, focusing on fundraising and logistical support networks for Middle Eastern terrorist groups. He is the author of several books and monographs, including Hamas: Politics, Charity and Terrorism in the Service of Jihad (Yale University Press, 2006), and Hezbollah: The Global Footprint of Lebanon's Party of God (Georgetown University Press, 2013). He is the host of the podcast series, Breaking Hezbollah's Golden Rule. Matt Levitt’s Books: Hezbollah: The Global Footprint of Lebanon’s Party of God - https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hezbollah-matthew-levitt/1114960198?ean=9781626162013 Negotiating Under Fire: Preserving Peace Talks in the Face of Terror Attacks - https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/negotiating-under-fire-matthew-levitt/1100301395?ean=9780742551626