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    Lots More with Matt Levine and Mike Mackenzie

    enSeptember 29, 2023

    Podcast Summary

    • Real Estate Manager's 360-degree Perspective on Investment OpportunitiesPrincipal Asset Management applies local insights and global expertise to identify opportunities in public and private equity and debt markets. The discussion then explored the basis trade, a financial concept influenced by interest rate volatility, emphasizing the importance of staying informed and not overlearning past crises.

      Principal Asset Management, as a real estate manager, utilizes a 360-degree perspective to deliver local insights and global expertise across various investment types. They apply this knowledge to identify compelling opportunities in both public and private equity and debt markets. The discussion then shifted to the topic of the basis trade, a financial concept that gained significant attention in March 2020 due to unprecedented interest rate volatility. Matt Levine, a Bloomberg Opinion columnist, shared his insights on the basis trade, acknowledging the influence of Josh Younger, a philosopher of treasury markets. Despite the media attention and concerns, Levine emphasized that financial markets are always evolving, and it's essential not to overlearn the lessons of past crises. The conversation ended with light-hearted banter and a reflection on the importance of staying informed about financial markets.

    • A friend's unexpected journey in a self-driving carSelf-driving cars offer convenience and novelty but can take longer routes, improving quality of life for some, and journalists cover diverse topics with personal perspectives.

      Technology, specifically self-driving cars, can bring convenience and novelty to our daily experiences, even if it comes with unexpected detours. This was evident in a story shared about a friend, Joe, who had his first experience in a self-driving car and was surprised by the longer-than-expected route it took. The conversation also touched on how this technology could potentially improve the quality of life for some, such as those who dislike driving or have long commutes. Additionally, the discussion highlighted the role of journalists, like Matt and Mike, who write about various topics, balancing the need to cover timely and interesting stories with their personal interests and perspectives.

    • Volatility in Bond Market: Large Trades Lead to Rise in Interest RatesDespite regulators targeting hedge funds, the current market volatility, marked by large bond trades and rising interest rates, is causing significant losses for long-term bond investors, surpassing 9% year to date.

      This past week in the financial markets has been marked by significant volatility, particularly in the bond market. Large block trades in futures have led to a rise in interest rates, causing big moves in various financial instruments. One notable development is the increase in term premium, which has outpaced the rise seen during the taper tantrum in 2013. The speaker, who has experience as a broker from the 1990s, recalls a similar experience during the LTCM crisis in 1998 when markets were incredibly volatile. The speaker also notes that regulators have been targeting hedge funds in the current market situation, but the basis trade this time around may be different due to less leverage and the role of new market makers like algorithms and hedge funds. Ultimately, many investors are currently underwater on long-term bonds, with losses approaching 9% year to date.

    • Treasury bond market losses and financial trade amplifying spreadsThe Treasury bond market's losses have raised concerns about a financial trade involving Treasuries and futures contracts, which can amplify market disruptions and increase volatility.

      The Treasury bond market, which is typically seen as a low-risk investment, has seen significant losses in the last three years. This has raised concerns about a specific financial trade involving the purchase of Treasuries and the sale of associated futures contracts, which can amplify the spread between the two. This trade, often used by hedge funds and high-frequency traders, can lead to increased volatility in the market when the Treasury market experiences significant disruptions. The trade exists because long-only bond managers use futures to efficiently gain exposure to Treasuries, while hedge funds borrow money to buy Treasuries directly. Understanding this dynamic is crucial for investors, as it highlights the interconnectedness of different financial instruments and market participants.

    • Shift from primary dealers to hedge funds and algo traders in treasury marketRegulations post-2007 led to hedge funds and algo traders dominating treasury market, increasing opportunities for arbitrage but also concerns about unintended consequences and potential regulation.

      The treasury market, which used to be the domain of primary dealers, has now shifted to hedge funds and algorithmic traders due to post-2007 regulations. This shift, while providing opportunities for arbitrage, also brings concerns about potential unintended consequences and increased regulation. The market's fragility, similar to the banking system, comes from the fact that short-term cash deposits in the form of repo are being used to loan money to the government for long-term periods. The inherent risk in this situation is managed through regulations such as equity requirements, repo haircuts, and futures margin. However, the market's reliability is not 100%, and there is a fail state that is ultimately backed by the Federal Reserve. The recent surge in volatility and stress in liquidity measures since the Fed began tightening policy serves as a reminder of the market's inherent fragility and the need for effective risk management.

    • Bond market volatility: Fed's rate hikes and Treasury supplyThe bond market's resilience is evident in its ability to absorb increased Treasury supply and Fed rate hikes, despite investor anxiety about inflation and its impact on yields.

      The recent volatility in the bond market, which some attribute to the Federal Reserve's "higher for longer" interest rate stance, is also driven by a significant increase in Treasury supply. The market's ability to absorb this supply, despite the Fed's rate hikes, is a testament to the resilience of the bond market. However, investors are growing increasingly anxious about the possibility of persistently high inflation and the impact it could have on bond yields and the Fed's ability to cut rates in response. The recent rise in oil prices has only added to this anxiety. The bond market's reaction to the Fed's rate hikes also challenges the narrative that the market would break down without the intermediation provided by traditional banks. Instead, high-frequency traders have stepped in to provide liquidity, demonstrating the market's adaptability. Despite the current uncertainty, the bond market's ability to function in the face of increased supply and rate hikes is a reminder of its resilience.

    • Modern treasury intermediation system effective despite bond market volatilityDespite concerns, the modern treasury intermediation system has proven effective during volatile rates environments. However, extreme scenarios may cause market dislocation, requiring Fed intervention to prevent a complete breakdown.

      While concerns about bond market liquidity have been a topic of debate in the past, the modern treasury intermediation system has proven effective even in volatile rates environments. However, as seen during the March 2020 market turmoil, there is a possibility of extreme scenarios where the market may not function as intended, leading to a cash crunch and potential dislocation. The Fed's intervention during such times is crucial to prevent a complete market breakdown. With rates gapping out and credit yet to follow suit, the possibility of a credit blow-up and its impact on the bond market remains a potential wildcard for the Q4 market. Recent discussions suggest that some investors may try to profit from such a scenario, while others may be forced to cut back. The Fed's surprise intervention to protect sovereign banks from contagion is another potential wildcard in the current market conditions.

    • Private equity's growing role in credit marketsPrivate equity firms have become major players in the credit market with vast 'dry powder', extensive company knowledge, and less frequent mark-to-market requirements.

      The role of private equity in the credit markets has significantly changed the game, and it's unlikely that we'll see the same kind of credit blow-up as in the past. Private equity firms now have a vast amount of "dry powder" and have become major players in the credit market. They have the edge due to their extensive knowledge of companies and the ability to not mark to market as often. The shift in power from traditional financial institutions to private equity firms is a significant development that investors should keep an eye on. Additionally, Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway discussed their new podcast, Money Stuff, where Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld will be bringing the Money Stuff newsletter to life every Friday.

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