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    • Understanding the Rules of Engagement on the InternetThe internet's 'devil's playbook' includes 4 rules (Outrage, Polarization, Social Proof, Engagement) that explain why it can feel negative and extremist, and knowing them can help us navigate it better

      The internet, with its endless stream of content, can be overwhelming and negatively impact our sense of identity and reality. According to Professor Jay Van Bavel, a psychologist and neuroscientist at New York University, we casually scroll through an estimated 300 feet of content every day. His research reveals that the rules of engagement on the internet can lead to negativity, extremism, and tribalism. In today's episode of Plain English, Derek Thompson shares Van Bavel's "devil's playbook" for getting attention on the web, which includes four rules that explain why the internet can feel like a cesspool of negativity and extremism. These rules include the "Outrage Rule," the "Polarization Rule," the "Social Proof Rule," and the "Engagement Rule." Understanding these rules can help us navigate the internet more effectively and protect ourselves from its negative effects. Tune in to Plain English to learn more about these rules and how they're shaping our online experiences.

    • How online environments trigger group dynamicsOnline environments can easily trigger group dynamics, leading to increased affinity, cooperation, and identification, but also to extreme views, misinformation, echo chambers, and endless consumption

      Our brains are wired to form groups and identities, which can be easily triggered in various social environments, including online. According to Dr. Jay Van Bavel's research, it takes only a coin flip or a shared interest to make us feel part of a group, leading to increased affinity, cooperation, and identification. However, being in an online environment where multiple group dynamics overlap can make it challenging to think independently. Dr. Van Bavel identified four "bad laws" of Internet and social media engagement based on his research, which include the law of group polarization, the law of social contagion, the law of filter bubbles, and the law of infinite consumption. These laws explain how group dynamics on the Internet can lead to extreme views, the spread of misinformation, the creation of echo chambers, and endless consumption, respectively. Understanding these laws can help us navigate the online world more effectively and promote healthier digital engagement.

    • Negativity and Extremism Boost Engagement OnlineNegative words in headlines increase clicks by 2%, positive words decrease clicks. Outgroup animosity and emotional language also drive engagement online.

      Negativity and extremism drive engagement online, as shown in a study of over 370 million impressions from news articles on Upworthy. The study found that negative words in headlines increased click-through rates by over 2%, while positive words decreased the likelihood of a headline being clicked on. This phenomenon can be explained by our evolutionary wiring to detect threats and avoid negative experiences, which has been manipulated by media to increase engagement. Upworthy, famous for its viral headlines, conducted AB testing on headlines for the same stories, allowing researchers to control for the underlying substance and find that negative headlines tended to get more clicks. Additionally, outgroup animosity and moral, emotional language also drive engagement online, as discussed in further research. These findings highlight the importance of understanding the psychological drivers of engagement in the digital age.

    • Human tendency to focus on negativity drives engagement in news and social mediaNegativity bias and extremist opinions draw more attention online, shaping news and social media landscapes

      Negativity and extremism are key drivers of engagement in news media and on social platforms. Negativity bias, an inherent human tendency to pay closer attention to threatening or negative information, is the most fundamental bias in news media. This bias is not only present among journalists but also among audiences, who are drawn to negative content due to an evolutionary instinct to pay attention to threats. Similarly, extremist opinions receive more engagement online than moderate ones, as a small group of individuals often dominates online conversations. These findings have important implications for understanding the news and social media landscapes and the need to critically evaluate the information we consume.

    • Extreme users and algorithms fuel online extremismExtreme users generate most political posts, algorithms prioritize them, users learn to be more extreme, but there are limits to how far conversations can go before pushback from individuals and effective content promotion methods.

      Extreme users and algorithms create a reinforcing loop of extremism in online conversations. With 97% of political posts on Twitter coming from just 10% of the most active users, these individuals, who tend to hold ideologically extreme views, generate the majority of comments and engagement. Algorithms then prioritize these extreme posts, creating a norm for further extreme commentary. Users learn to use the algorithm to their advantage, becoming more extreme over time. However, it's important to note that there are limits to how far these conversations can go before people push back. Research suggests that individuals have a latitude of what they will accept from their own group, but not from others. Extreme perspectives from outgroups may be met with criticism, silencing, or even cancel culture. Additionally, some social media ecosystems seem to have more effective methods for promoting quality content, providing examples of healthier online conversations.

    • Effective moderation shapes online discourseProper moderation promotes accurate and balanced discussions, mitigating pluralistic ignorance and false polarization.

      Effective moderation plays a crucial role in shaping the quality and outcome of online discourse. The New York Times, Reddit, and Wikipedia are examples of platforms that have harnessed the power of moderators to foster nuanced and thoughtful discussions. Conversely, the absence of proper moderation can lead to extremism, which in turn contributes to pluralistic ignorance and false polarization. Pluralistic ignorance occurs when individuals publicly endorse extreme views while privately holding more moderate beliefs. False polarization, on the other hand, arises when we misrepresent the views and feelings of opposing groups based on the actions of their most extreme members. Proper moderation can help mitigate these issues by promoting accurate and balanced discussions.

    • Outgroup animosity fuels social media engagementPosts with negative references to political outgroups are 67% more likely to be shared on social media

      Outgroup animosity, or negativity towards those who belong to a different group, drives engagement on social media. A study led by Steve Rathge analyzed millions of posts from Facebook and Twitter, and found that each term referring to the political outgroup increased the odds of a post being shared by 67%. This effect was even more significant than pluralistic ignorance and false polarization. Political leaders, in particular, benefit from sharing negative content about their opponents, as it generates the most engagement. This incentivizes them to continue sharing such content, creating a cycle of animosity and engagement.

    • Being specific with AI and understanding human tendenciesSpecify instructions for effective AI use, and recognize the human desire to belong and experience Schadenfreude for increased engagement and emotional reactions.

      Specificity is key when working with AI. The more detailed and clear you are with your instructions, the more effective the AI will be. This applies to various aspects of life, including creating content or financial planning. Another interesting insight from the discussion is the human tendency to form strong team identities and root against opponents. This phenomenon, often seen in sports, is driven by the desire to belong and the excitement of seeing the opposing team suffer or fail. This dynamic, known as Schadenfreude, can lead to increased engagement and strong emotional reactions. In summary, being specific with AI and understanding the human tendency towards team identity and Schadenfreude can provide valuable insights and enhance various aspects of life, from content creation to financial planning and sports fandom.

    • Using moral emotional language online can increase engagement and sharingUsing words with moral and emotional connotations can boost online message reach by up to 20%

      Using moral emotional language in online messages can significantly increase engagement and sharing, particularly in political contexts. Moral emotional language refers to words and phrases that evoke strong feelings and have a moral connotation, such as outrage, contempt, love, and justice. These words often have a higher arousal level than non-moral, non-emotional language. Studies have shown that using moral emotional language in messages online can increase their likelihood of being shared by up to 20%. This effect can occur regardless of whether the words are positive or negative. However, the use of moral emotional language can also signal to others that the person using it is more identified with their group and less open to engaging with those who hold opposing views. As a result, the use of moral emotional language can contribute to polarization and the spread of echo chambers online.

    • Online language can create an echo chamber effectUsing negative, extreme moral emotional language online can reinforce beliefs among like-minded individuals and alienate those with different perspectives, leading to less engagement and sharing.

      The use of negative, extreme moral emotional language online can create an echo chamber effect, making users believe their ideas are more popular than they actually are. This language not only reinforces beliefs among like-minded individuals but also alienates those with different perspectives, leading to less engagement and sharing. These rules, driven by both human psychology and corporate decisions, can create a distorted view of reality and impact our understanding of popular opinion. It's essential to be aware of this phenomenon and strive for inclusive, respectful, and thoughtful communication online.

    • Exploiting Human Nature on Social MediaSocial media unintentionally uses negativity, extremism, outgroup dynamics, and social status to keep users engaged, but it's important to remember the internet's positive aspects and find a balance.

      Social media companies unintentionally exploit human nature to keep users engaged for as long as possible. This includes the unintentional exploitation of negativity, extremism, outgroup dynamics, and the need for social status. However, it's essential to note that these phenomena were also present in traditional media, but the conversation is more interesting in the digital age. Additionally, it's important to remember that the internet has many positive aspects, including the ability to connect people from all over the world and facilitate meaningful conversations. The key is to find a balance between the benefits and the challenges of social media. Furthermore, understanding the motivations behind user behavior and changing the incentives can help mitigate the negative effects. Ultimately, it's a complex issue that requires a nuanced approach.

    • Leveraging Group Psychology in the Digital AgeThe Internet allows us to connect with like-minded individuals and foster collective action, but it's crucial to use this power responsibly and positively to build stronger communities and combat loneliness.

      The ability to understand and connect with other people through group psychology has been crucial for human civilization, and while social media and the Internet have their downsides, they also offer significant benefits in terms of spreading information, connecting people, and fostering collective action, particularly in underdeveloped democracies and autocracies. The speaker, who has studied group psychology extensively, emphasizes the importance of leveraging this inherent human trait in healthier ways, allowing individuals to feel connected and less lonely while accomplishing more. The Internet, in essence, is a powerful tool for helping people find and coordinate with like-minded individuals, which can be beneficial or detrimental depending on the nature of the group.

    Recent Episodes from Plain English with Derek Thompson

    Whatever Happened to Serial Killers?

    Whatever Happened to Serial Killers?
    In the first five decades of the 20th century, the number of serial killers in the U.S. remained at a very low level. But between the 1950s and 1960s, the number of serial killers tripled. Between the 1960s and 1970s, they tripled again. In the 1980s and 1990s, they kept rising. And then, just as suddenly as the serial killer emerged as an American phenomenon, he (and it really is mostly a he) nearly disappeared. What happened to the American serial killers? And what does this phenomenon say about American society, criminology, and technology? Today's guest is James Alan Fox, the Lipman Family Professor of Criminology, Law, and Public Policy at Northeastern University. The author of 18 books, he has been publishing on this subject since before 1974, the year that the FBI coined the term "serial killer." If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: James Alan Fox Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    The Radical Cultural Shift Behind America's Declining Birth Rate

    The Radical Cultural Shift Behind America's Declining Birth Rate
    We've done several podcasts on America's declining fertility rate, and why South Korea has the lowest birthrate in the world. But we've never done an episode on the subject quite like this one. Today we go deep on the psychology of having children and not having children, and the cultural revolution behind the decline in birthrates in America and the rest of the world. The way we think about dating, marriage, kids, and family is changing radically in a very short period of time. And we are just beginning to reckon with the causes and consequences of that shift. In the new book, 'What Are Children For,' Anastasia Berg and Rachel Wiseman say a new "parenthood ambivalence" is sweeping the world. In today's show, they persuade Derek that this issue is about more than the economic trends he tends to focus on when he discusses this issue. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guests: Anastasia Berg & Rachel Wiseman Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Breathing Is Easy. But We’re Doing It Wrong.

    Breathing Is Easy. But We’re Doing It Wrong.
    Today’s episode is about the science of breathing—from the evolution of our sinuses and palate, to the downsides of mouth breathing and the upsides of nasal breathing, to specific breath techniques that you can use to reduce stress and fall asleep fast. Our guest is James Nestor, the author of the bestselling book 'Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art.' If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: James Nestor Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    The News Media’s Dangerous Addiction to ‘Fake Facts’

    The News Media’s Dangerous Addiction to ‘Fake Facts’
    What do most people not understand about the news media? I would say two things. First: The most important bias in news media is not left or right. It’s a bias toward negativity and catastrophe. Second: That while it would be convenient to blame the news media exclusively for this bad-news bias, the truth is that the audience is just about equally to blame. The news has never had better tools for understanding exactly what gets people to click on stories. That means what people see in the news is more responsive than ever to aggregate audience behavior. If you hate the news, what you are hating is in part a collective reflection in the mirror. If you put these two facts together, you get something like this: The most important bias in the news media is the bias that news makers and news audiences share toward negativity and catastrophe. Jerusalem Demsas, a staff writer at The Atlantic and the host of the podcast Good on Paper, joins to discuss a prominent fake fact in the news — and the psychological and media forces that promote fake facts and catastrophic negativity in the press. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Jerusalem Demsas Producer: Devon Baroldi Links: "The Maternal-Mortality Crisis That Didn’t Happen" by Jerusalem Demsas https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/no-more-women-arent-dying-in-childbirth/678486/ The 2001 paper "Bad Is Stronger Than Good" https://assets.csom.umn.edu/assets/71516.pdf Derek on the complex science of masks and mask mandates https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/03/covid-lab-leak-mask-mandates-science-media-information/673263/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Microplastics Are Everywhere. How Dangerous Are They?

    Microplastics Are Everywhere. How Dangerous Are They?
    Plastic is a life-saving technology. Plastic medical equipment like disposable syringes and IV bags reduce deaths in hospitals. Plastic packaging keeps food fresh longer. Plastic parts in cars make cars lighter, which could make them less deadly in accidents. My bike helmet is plastic. My smoke detector is plastic. Safety gates for babies: plastic. But in the last few months, several studies have demonstrated the astonishing ubiquity of microplastics and the potential danger they pose to our bodies—especially our endocrine and cardiovascular systems. Today’s guest is Philip Landrigan, an epidemiologist and pediatrician, and a professor in the biology department of Boston College. We start with the basics: What is plastic? How does plastic become microplastic or nanoplastic? How do these things get into our bodies? Once they’re in our bodies what do they do? How sure are we that they’re a contributor to disease? What do the latest studies tell us—and what should we ask of future research? Along the way we discuss why plastic recycling doesn’t actually work, the small steps we can take to limit our exposure, and the big steps that governments can take to limit our risk. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Philip Landrigan Producer: Devon Baroldi Links: "Plastics, Fossil Carbon, and the Heart" by Philip J. Landrigan in NEJM https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2400683 "Tiny plastic shards found in human testicles, study says" https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/health/microplastics-testicles-study-wellness/index.html Consumer Reports: "The Plastic Chemicals Hiding in Your Food" https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/the-plastic-chemicals-hiding-in-your-food-a7358224781/#:~:text=BEVERAGES,in%20this%20chart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Why the New NBA Deal Is So Weird. Plus, How Sports Rights Actually Work.

    Why the New NBA Deal Is So Weird. Plus, How Sports Rights Actually Work.
    In an age of cults, sports are the last gasp of the monoculture—the last remnant of the 20th century mainstream still standing. Even so, the new NBA media rights deal is astonishing. At a time when basketball ratings are in steady decline, the NBA is on the verge of signing a $70-plus billion sports rights deal that would grow its annual media rights revenue by almost 3x. How does that make any sense? (Try asking your boss for a tripled raise when your performance declines 2 percent a year and tell us how that goes.) And what does this madness tell us about the state of sports and TV economics in the age of cults and cord-cutting? John Ourand, sports correspondent with Puck News, explains. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: John Ourand Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    What America’s Bold New Economic Experiment Is Missing

    What America’s Bold New Economic Experiment Is Missing
    The news media is very good at focusing on points of disagreement in our politics. Wherever Democrats and Republicans are butting heads, that's where we reliably find news coverage. When right and left disagree about trans rights, or the immigration border bill, or abortion, or January 6, or the indictments over January 6, you can bet that news coverage will be ample. But journalists like me sometimes have a harder time seeing through the lurid partisanship to focus on where both sides agree. It's these places, these subtle areas of agreements, these points of quiet fusion, where policy is actually made, where things actually happen. I’m offering you that wind up because I think something extraordinary is happening in American economics today. Something deeper than the headlines about lingering inflation. High grocery prices. Prohibitive interest rates. Stalled out housing markets. Quietly, and sometimes not so quietly, a new consensus is building in Washington concerning technology, and trade, and growth. It has three main parts: first, there is a newly aggressive approach to subsidizing the construction of new infrastructure, clean energy, and advanced computer chips that are integral to AI and military; second, there are new tariffs, or new taxes on certain imports, especially from China to protect US companies in these industries; and third, there are restrictions on Chinese technologies in the U.S., like Huawei and TikTok. Subsidies, tariffs, and restrictions are the new rage in Washington. Today’s guest is David Leonhardt, a longtime writer, columnist, and editor at The New York Times who currently runs their morning newsletter, The Morning. he is the author of the book Ours Was the Shining Future. We talk about the history of the old economic consensus, the death of Reaganism, the demise of the free trade standard, the strengths and weaknesses of the new economic consensus, what could go right in this new paradigm, and what could go horribly wrong. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: David Leonhardt Producer: Devon Baroldi Links: David Leonhardt on neopopulism: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/19/briefing/centrism-washington-neopopulism.html Greg Ip on the three-legged stool of new industrial policy: https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-u-s-finally-has-a-strategy-to-compete-with-china-will-it-work-ce4ea6cf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    The Five Superstars Who Invented the Modern NBA

    The Five Superstars Who Invented the Modern NBA
    The game of basketball has changed dramatically in the last 40 years. In the early 1990s, Michael Jordan said that 3-point shooting was "something I don’t want to excel at," because he thought it might make him a less effective scorer. 20 years later, 3-point shots have taken over basketball. The NBA has even changed dramatically in the last decade. In the 2010s, it briefly seemed as if sharp-shooting guards would drive the center position out of existence. But the last four MVP awards have all gone to centers. In his new book, ‘Hoop Atlas,’ author Kirk Goldsberry explains how new star players have continually revolutionized the game. Goldsberry traces the evolution of basketball from the midrange mastery of peak Jordan in the 1990s, to the offensive dark ages of the early 2000s, to the rise of sprawl ball and "heliocentrism," and finally to emergence of a new apex predator in the game: the do-it-all big man. Today, we talk about the history of paradigm shifts in basketball strategy and how several key superstars in particular—Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, Manu Ginóbili, Steph Curry, and Nikola Jokic—have served as tactical entrepreneurs, introducing new plays and skills that transform the way basketball is played. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Kirk Goldsberry Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Are Smartphones Really Driving the Rise in Teenage Depression?

    Are Smartphones Really Driving the Rise in Teenage Depression?
    Today—a closer critical look at the relationship between smartphones and mental health. One of the themes we’ve touched on more than any other on this show is that American teenagers—especially girls—appear to be “engulfed” in historic rates of anxiety and sadness. The numbers are undeniable. The Youth Risk Behavior Survey, which is published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, showed that from 2011 to 2021, the share of teenage girls who say they experience “persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness” increased by 50 percent. But there is a fierce debate about why this is happening. The most popular explanation on offer today in the media says: It’s the smartphones, stupid. Teen anxiety increased during a period when smartphones and social media colonized the youth social experience. This is a story I’ve shared on this very show, including with Jonathan Haidt, the author of the new bestselling book 'The Anxious Generation_.'_ But this interpretation is not dogma in scientific circles. In fact, it’s quite hotly debated. In 2019, an Oxford University study titled "The Association Between Adolescent Well-Being and Digital Technology Use" found that the effect size of screen time on reduced mental health was roughly the same as the association with “eating potatoes.” Today, I want to give more space to the argument that it's not just the phones. Our guest is David Wallace-Wells, bestselling science writer and a columnist for The New York Times.  He says something more complicated is happening. In particular, the rise in teen distress seems concentrated in a handful of high-income and often English-speaking countries. So what is it about the interaction between smartphones, social media, and an emerging Anglophonic culture of mental health that seems to be driving this increase in teen distress? If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: David Wallace-Wells Producer: Devon Baroldi Links My original essay on the teen anxiety phenomenon https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/04/american-teens-sadness-depression-anxiety/629524/ "Are Smartphones Driving Our Teens to Depression?" by David Wallace-Wells https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/01/opinion/smartphones-social-media-mental-health-teens.html 'The Anxious Generation,' by Jonathan Haidt https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/book Haidt responds to his critics https://www.afterbabel.com/p/social-media-mental-illness-epidemic Our original episode with Haidt https://www.theringer.com/2022/4/22/23036468/why-are-american-teenagers-so-sad-and-anxious Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Are Flying Cars Finally Here?

    Are Flying Cars Finally Here?
    For decades, flying cars have been a symbol of collective disappointment—of a technologically splendid future that was promised but never delivered. Whose fault is that? Gideon Lewis-Kraus, a staff writer at The New Yorker who has spent 18 months researching the history, present, and future of flying car technology, joins the show. We talk about why flying cars don't exist—and why they might be much closer to reality than most people think. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com.  Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Gideon Lewis-Kraus Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    Related Episodes

    The age of "mega-identity" politics

    The age of "mega-identity" politics
    Yes, identity politics is breaking our country. But it’s not identity politics as we’re used to thinking about it.  In Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity, Lilliana Mason traces the construction of our partisan “mega-identities”: identities that fuse party affiliation to ideology, race, religion, gender, sexuality, geography, and more. These mega-identities didn’t exist 50 or even 30 years ago, but now that they’re here, they change the way we see each other, the way we engage in politics, and the way politics absorbs other — previously non-political —spheres of our culture. In making her case, Mason offers one of the best primers I’ve read on how little it takes to activate a sense of group identity in human beings, and how far-reaching the cognitive and social implications are once that group identity takes hold. I don’t want to spoil our discussion here, but suffice to say that her recounting of the “minimal group paradigm” experiments is not to be missed. This is the kind of research that will change not just how you think about the world, but how you think about yourself.  Mason’s book is, I think, one of the most important published this year, and this conversation gave me a lens on our political discord that I haven’t stopped thinking about since. If you want to understand the kind of identity politics that’s driving America in 2018, you should listen in.  Books: Ideology in America by Christopher Ellis and James Stimson  Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi  The Power by Naomi Alderman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    A Republican Pollster on Trump’s Undimmed Appeal

    A Republican Pollster on Trump’s Undimmed Appeal

    The fact that Donald Trump is the front-runner for the G.O.P. nomination in 2024 has created a chasm in our politics. In the past, Democrats and Republicans at least understood why members of the other party liked their chosen candidates. Most conservatives weren’t confused why liberals liked Barack Obama, and vice versa for George W. Bush. But for a lot of Democrats, it feels impossible to imagine why anyone would cast a vote for Trump. And as a result, the two parties don’t just feel hostile toward each other; they feel increasingly unknowable.

    Kristen Soltis Anderson is a veteran Republican pollster, a founding partner of the opinion research firm Echelon Insights and a CNN contributor. She spends her days trying to understand the thinking of Republican voters, including hosting focus groups for New York Times Opinion. So I wanted to get her insights on why Republicans like Trump so much — even after his 2020 electoral loss, the Jan. 6 insurrection and over 90 criminal charges. What really explains Trump’s enduring appeal?

    Mentioned:

    Researcher application

    Associate engineer application

    Gallup's Presidential Job Approval Center

    Book Recommendations:

    Subtract by Leidy Klotz

    Party of the People by Patrick Ruffini

    Welcome to the O.C. by Josh Schwartz, Stephanie Savage and Alan Sepinwall

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

    The Unseen Layers: Navigating Emotional Landscapes in Relationships

    The Unseen Layers: Navigating Emotional Landscapes in Relationships

    In this emotionally charged episode of Berry Unearthed: Rooted in Resilience, Phil and Crystal delve into the hidden intricacies of their relationship. They kick things off by discussing the art of eliciting reactions from each other—sometimes for humor and sometimes as a barometer for emotional states. Phil shares his amusement in pushing Crystal's buttons just to see her react, highlighting the childlike joy that can be found in long-term relationships.

    As the conversation deepens, Phil and Crystal explore the idea of "emotional mechanics," the unseen forces that keep a relationship ticking. Phil admits to sometimes being the instigator but also appreciates the balance and boundary-setting that Crystal brings to the table. Crystal, in turn, values Phil's provocations as opportunities for self-reflection and growth.

    The duo shifts gears to discuss the concept of resilience within relationships. They both agree that resilience isn't just about bouncing back from hardships but also about navigating the day-to-day nuances that come with being in a committed partnership. Phil stresses the importance of not taking things too seriously, while Crystal emphasizes the need for conscious decision-making rather than reacting out of emotional impulse.

    In a surprising turn, the episode segues into a broader discussion about societal expectations and how they can strain relationships. Phil criticizes the media's role in polarizing opinions and fostering a culture of outrage, advocating for more independent thinking. Crystal counters by pointing out that genuine change requires a collective effort, something that can be daunting in a society resistant to change.

    Throughout the episode, both Phil and Crystal exhibit a level of vulnerability that adds depth to their discussions. They acknowledge the challenges they've faced in their own relationship, from communication breakdowns to differing perspectives on various issues. Yet, they both agree that it's the journey, with its struggles and triumphs, that makes a relationship truly resilient and fulfilling.

    In wrapping up, they stress the importance of continuous growth, open communication, and the value of both embracing and challenging each other's viewpoints. This episode serves as a masterclass in maintaining a resilient relationship, making it a must-listen for anyone invested in personal growth and relational dynamics.

    The Middle Way

    The Middle Way

    DESCRIPTION

    In this episode, we arrive at a fork in the road, and we choose neither path.  Instead, we take the path less traveled: the middle path.  When it comes to the most polarizing and controversial cultural subjects, we often forget that there are other opinions besides the left and the right.  Are there really only two options on the topics of abortion, vaccination, climate change and money?  Let's take a look!

    CERVEZA OF THE WEEK

    SHOW NOTES

    MUSIC

    Grover Norquist explains what it takes to change American politics

    Grover Norquist explains what it takes to change American politics
    This is an interview you all have been asking for since day one. Grover Norquist is the head of Americans for Tax Reform, the creator of the no-new-taxes pledge that virtually every Republican officeholder has signed, and the founder of the Wednesday meetings that bring together basically every group of note on the American right. Newt Gingrich has called him "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell called him "the most powerful man in America who does not sleep in the White House."He’s also, in my experience, one of the savviest observers of American politics around — in a town where people tend to be tactical and reactive, he’s unusually strategic and forward-looking, which is something he talks a bit about in the discussion. Among the other topics we cover:- Norquist's time in Angola and Mozambique helping anti-communist rebels - Whether the rise of Trump shows the conservative base isn’t quite as committed to small government and low taxes as Norquist would hope - Norquist's strategy for building durable political coalitions- Why Norquist thinks Silicon Valley will eventually turn Republican, and what he's doing to make it happen- That time Norquist did stand-up comedy at Burning Man Whether you’re on the left or the right, you should understand how Grover Norquist thinks, and I’m grateful to him for taking so much time to let us into his worldview here. As always, please, if you’re enjoying this podcast, share it with your friends, put it on the Twitters, on Facebook, email it around — it means a lot to me, and it does a lot to help the show!This episode is brought to you by The Great Courses Plus. Visit TheGreatCoursesPlus.com/EZRA to stream hundreds of courses in subjects like photography, physics, and history for free! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices