Podcast Summary
Exploring radical ideas for expanding democracy: Political scientist Ellen Landimore proposes 'open democracy,' where citizens exercise power through deliberation and rule, inviting us to reconsider democratic practices and consider potential benefits.
We are in a decadent age, according to Ross Douthat, marked by affluence and a lack of purpose, leading to societal stagnation. Ezra Klein, on his show, aims to challenge this by exploring truly radical ideas to expand our political and moral imagination. One such idea comes from political scientist Ellen Landimore, who proposes "open democracy," where citizens, not just elites, exercise power through deliberation and rule. This idea, while challenging and radical, invites us to reconsider our current democratic practices and consider the potential benefits of giving citizens a more active role in governance. It's a thought-provoking concept worth exploring in the context of our current political landscape.
Involving Citizens in Constitutional Design: Iceland's Experience: The inclusion of citizens in constitutional design is vital, but the role of experts and their integration into the process can significantly impact the final outcome.
The process of creating a citizen-led constitution, as exemplified by Iceland's experience, emphasizes the importance of education and deliberation in shaping the outcome. The role of experts is crucial, but how they are brought in can significantly impact the final text. Iceland's group relied on the collective wisdom of 950 randomly selected citizens and consulted expert reports, but they didn't actively call in experts to debate specific issues. This led to a more grassroots approach, with the group prioritizing issues differently than professional politicians might have. Despite not having a large budget, they managed to create a draft that was put to a nationwide referendum. However, the proposal was ultimately rejected by parliament. The key lesson here is that the process of involving citizens in constitutional design is essential, but the role of experts and the way they are integrated into the process can greatly influence the final outcome.
Iceland's failed attempt at a new constitution: A blueprint for participatory democracy: Despite challenges, Iceland's effort to draft a new constitution focusing on people's rights and inclusion showcases the potential for a more authentic democratic system. Persisting in the pursuit of this ideal, while collaborating with existing powers, may lead to greater success.
Iceland's attempt to draft a new constitution with a strong focus on people's rights and inclusion, despite facing opposition and ultimately failing to pass, serves as a blueprint for a new kind of participatory and inclusive democracy. Although the experiment did not fully succeed, it demonstrated the potential for a more authentic democratic system. However, transitioning from the current system to this new form of democracy requires working with the existing powers that be and building their goodwill, rather than trying to circumvent the system. The French convention, which followed a similar approach, may offer a more successful model. Despite criticisms of the current state of democracy in most countries, this experience underscores the importance of persisting in the pursuit of a more inclusive and participatory political system.
Elections have inherent limitations and biases: Despite their importance, elections exclude certain groups and rely on biased human choices, necessitating a rethink of our electoral systems for a more authentic and inclusive democracy
While elections have been a significant achievement in the history of democracy, they have inherent limitations and biases that exclude certain groups of people from having a meaningful say in the political process. The author argues that elections rely on human choice, which is inherently discriminatory and biased towards certain traits, and even in an ideal society, they systematically close off access to power to those who are shy, inarticulate, or weak-willed. The author suggests that it's time to rethink or augment our electoral systems to give more power to the invisible and unheard citizens, who have no chance in an electoral system. The dynamics of power and exclusion can also reproduce themselves in other forms of citizen groups, and it's crucial to address these biases to create a more authentic and inclusive form of democracy.
Designing Inclusive Citizens' Assemblies: Inclusive citizens' assemblies foster better decision-making by empowering underrepresented voices and filtering out noise. Random selection and porous deliberation are crucial for maintaining diversity and representation.
Designing inclusive citizens' assemblies can help minimize the reproduction of hegemonies and empower underrepresented voices. This leads to better decision-making and thinking as more minds bring diverse perspectives and information to the table. In a deliberative democracy, the noise and bad arguments are filtered out, leaving better decisions for all. However, if not everyone can be included, a representative sample should be taken through random selection to minimize the loss of diversity. Keeping the deliberation porous to information from the larger group is also important. Elected groups, on the other hand, risk homogenizing decision-makers and creating blind spots due to lack of representation of various perspectives.
The Benefits of Inclusive Legislatures: Diverse legislatures lead to better problem-solving than homogeneous ones, as group intelligence is more a function of group diversity than individual competence. One unit of group diversity is more beneficial than one unit of individual competence.
Inclusive legislatures, which reflect the diversity of interests, views, and perspectives of the whole population, lead to better problem-solving than homogeneous legislatures composed of only the most competent individuals. This is because group intelligence is more a function of group diversity than individual competence. However, introducing more diverse people may also include less educated or less intelligent individuals. Yet, recent social science results suggest that one unit of group diversity is more beneficial than one unit of individual competence. This idea challenges the 18th-century notion of a natural aristocracy that believed the best governance would result from the best and brightest in one legislature. Instead, a more representative legislature, where diverse voices are heard, can lead to better decision-making outcomes. Despite the potential challenges and discomfort of engaging with diverse perspectives, the experience of citizens' assemblies shows that people can be respectful and productive in their discussions, especially when they are asked to engage as individuals rather than representatives of a tribe. Therefore, in large, multicultural countries like the US, it's essential to find ways to effectively incorporate diverse voices into the legislative process to create the best possible solutions.
Incentives matter in deliberative citizen processes: Effective citizen processes require incentives for respectful behavior, self-education, and listening to others, leading to socially fair solutions, as demonstrated by the French Citizens Convention for Climate.
The success of deliberative citizen processes, like the Citizens Convention for Climate in France, depends on the incentives given to participants. When people are incentivized to act respectfully, educate themselves, and listen to each other, these processes can lead to effective solutions, even in diverse settings. The French example demonstrates this, as the convention was a response to the Yellow movement rebellion and aimed to reduce French green gas emissions in a socially fair way. The process was inclusive, with citizens selected based on various demographic factors, and they were paid and given time to come up with solutions. While some proposals have been implemented, there have been criticisms of dilution and watering down of the proposals in the legislative process due to lobbying from industry. However, this pushback can also be seen as a necessary part of the process, as industries have valuable knowledge that can be aggregated to create effective solutions.
Consulting interest groups in decision-making bodies: Early involvement of interest groups in decision-making can lead to more balanced representation, but excessive influence can undermine the democratic process. A citizen's assembly could help mitigate this issue.
The involvement of interest groups and lobbies in decision-making bodies, while necessary, can lead to unequal representation and disproportionate influence on the outcome. This was evident in the French citizens council experiment, where experts and interest groups were consulted, but their arguments may not have been given sufficient weight. The speaker suggests that a better design process could involve bringing in lobbies and interests earlier in the process to make their case. However, the speaker also expresses concern that our legislative process in both France and the U.S. is currently taken over by interest groups, leading to excessive responsiveness to their preferences rather than the will of the majority. The speaker proposes the idea of a citizen's assembly to make decisions in weighty matters like impeachment, as a way to reduce the influence of interest groups and ensure more legitimate decisions.
Large citizen assemblies: balancing empowerment and representation: While large citizen assemblies offer potential for empowered decision-making, ensuring representation and allowing the larger community a say through referendums can help mitigate feelings of alienation.
The idea of large citizen assemblies for decision-making in politics, while reminiscent of ancient Greek practices, raises concerns about empowerment and representation. If such a body makes decisions that individuals don't agree with, they may feel alienated and powerless since they didn't have a direct role in the selection process. However, the speaker suggests a solution where these assemblies could put their decisions to a referendum, allowing the larger community to have a say. This model of open democracy would involve delegating the task of deliberation to a smaller, representative group, but keeping the decision-making power with the whole community. The speaker acknowledges that this model may not be perfect, as seen in the California proposition process, which is often criticized for being influenced by special interests. Nevertheless, the speaker believes that increasing the frequency and accessibility of referendums could help mitigate these issues and make governance more democratic.
Exploring the pros and cons of direct democracy: Direct democracy through referendums can lead to unintended consequences, but a functional democracy requires careful design and implementation, such as the Swiss model with long-established participatory practices and deliberation.
While direct democracy through referendums, as seen in California, can lead to unintended consequences, it's essential to consider the larger context of a functional democracy. The Swiss model, which includes long-established participatory practices and deliberation, seems to work better. However, the design and implementation of such systems are crucial. The lack of deliberation and quality control in California's direct democracy system can lead to problematic outcomes. A hypothetical example of a more representative Senate might improve representation, but it still depends on elections and the influence of money. The concept of citizens' assemblies, where individuals are randomly selected, brings a unique perspective and humility. More experimentation and comparative studies are necessary to understand the potential benefits and challenges of more openly democratic structures. There isn't a definitive book or movie that imagines a perfectly democratic world, but exploring these ideas can lead to valuable insights.
Exploring Non-Dystopian Democratic Plots and Favorite Books: The speaker recommends 'Liquid Rain' for its exploration of liquid democracy and shares their love for 'The Three Musketeers,' 'The Principles of Representative Government,' Mo Willems' Pigeon books, and 'Morte Ladell, Little Adele'.
The speaker, a political theorist, found it challenging to imagine a compelling plot in a democratic world that isn't dystopian or totalitarian. However, they recommended the book "Liquid Rain" as an interesting exploration of a more aggregative form of democracy called liquid democracy. The speaker also shared their love for Alexandre Dumas' "The Three Musketeers," which they find heartbreaking and inspiring, and Bernard Manin's "The Principles of Representative Government," which significantly influenced their work on open democracy. Lastly, the speaker shared their fondness for Mo Willems' Pigeon books for children and the French series "Morte Ladell, Little Adele," which they described as funny and adorable in a unique way.
