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    • Palestinian Authority's internal development approachFocusing on internal development and governance can demonstrate capability to external partners, but long-term success is uncertain.

      Building a functional state from the ground up, rather than relying on external peace deals, can be a viable path towards gaining recognition and partnership in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In 2009, Prime Minister Salaam Fayyad of the Palestinian Authority implemented this approach, focusing on internal development and governance. He aimed to demonstrate the Palestinian Authority's ability to collect taxes, maintain security, and work with partners. However, despite initial success, the Palestinian Authority's popularity and legitimacy waned over the years, leaving many to question the long-term viability of this approach. Fayyad's experiences offer valuable insights into the complexities of Palestinian politics and the ongoing quest for peace in the region.

    • Transitioning from a liberation movement to a governing entityThe formation of the Palestinian Authority brought challenges in building functional state institutions, as the focus on peace process overshadowed the effort and staffing was based on resistance experience rather than governance.

      The formation of the Palestinian Authority in the 1990s was a significant step towards self-governance for the Palestinian people, but it faced numerous challenges in building the institutions of a functional state. The background to this includes the US policy shift towards requiring reforms for Palestinian statehood, and the focus on the peace process overshadowing the building efforts. The Palestinian Authority was staffed largely by individuals with experience in resistance rather than governance, and while some progress was made, the main focus remained on the political process. The US and international community provided investment for institution-building, but the lack of sustained attention led to limited progress. Ultimately, the experience illustrates the complexities of transitioning from a liberation movement to a governing entity.

    • Appointment of Salam Fayyad as Finance Minister during the early 2000s to address internal and external pressuresAmidst internal dissatisfaction and external pressure, Salam Fayyad was appointed as Finance Minister to restore transparency and order to the PA's finances, focusing on fixing accounting structures and financial processes to build a functioning state and rebuild international trust.

      During the early 2000s, the Palestinian Authority faced immense internal and external pressure. Internally, there was growing dissatisfaction with the PA's governance and mismanagement of funds. Externally, the Second Intifada had led to increased violence and a deteriorating international standing for Palestinian leadership. In this context, Salam Fayyad was appointed as finance minister to address internal bureaucratic issues and restore transparency and order to the PA's finances. Despite the ongoing military curfews, sieges, and suicide bombings, Fayyad focused on fixing the accounting structure and financial processes as a crucial step towards building a functioning state and rebuilding international trust.

    • Transforming a centralized patronage system into a systems-based approachA determined leader, lobbying, and support from a charismatic president enabled the incremental shift from a centralized patronage system to a systems-based approach in government, leading to accountability, institutional structures, and legislative processes.

      Transforming a centralized patronage system into a systems-based approach in government requires determination, lobbying, and the support of a charismatic leader. The speaker, who served as a finance minister, shared how they incrementally changed the system by compartmentalizing and organizing functions, allowing ministries and agencies to manage their budgets. This shift led to the emergence of institutional structures and the beginning of accountability and legislative processes. The success of this transition was due to the marriage of the speaker's processes with the President's charismatic authority. Despite challenges, the President supported the changes, and many components of a well-functioning public finance system were established during his presidency. However, the speaker eventually left the government to form a new party, Third Way, which did not perform well in elections.

    • Hamas' surprising victory in 2006 Palestinian electionsHamas won 44% of votes due to anti-America, anti-Israel stance and promises of clean governance, but election system gave them majority, causing Palestinian split

      The 2006 Palestinian elections resulted in a surprising victory for Hamas, due in part to internal Palestinian politics and the election system. The Hamas slate ran on messages opposing both America and Israel's stance against Hamas, and promising clean governance. While they received a substantial 44% of the votes, it was the election system with its proportional representation that gave them an outright majority, leading to a violent split in Palestinian governance. The failure of the PLO's bet on the Oslo Accords and the aftermath of the second intifada played a significant role in Hamas' success.

    • Internal conflicts fuel political instability in GazaEffective management of pluralism is crucial for collective responsibility and progress towards freedom, nationhood, and self-determination.

      The political instability in Gaza during the Hamas rule can be attributed to deep-rooted factional rivalries and the struggle for representation, rather than external factors like financial sieges. The speaker, who served as Finance Minister during Hamas's brief tenure in a unity government, recounts how they were able to restore the banking system despite international pressure, but the government still fell apart due to internal conflicts. The speaker emphasizes the importance of managing pluralism effectively in order to focus on collective responsibility and move forward in the quest for freedom, nationhood, and self-determination.

    • Salam Fayyad's Change of Heart towards Including HamasFormer Palestinian PM Salam Fayyad believed excluding Hamas from politics was impossible and counterproductive for peace, advocating for inclusive elections despite international pressure.

      Salam Fayyad, the former Palestinian Prime Minister, came to the belief that excluding Hamas from the Palestinian political scene was impossible and counterproductive for achieving peace. This shift in thinking came after Hamas' victory in the 2006 elections and the subsequent power struggle, which led to Fayyad's appointment as prime minister in an emergency government. Despite international pressure to exclude Hamas, Fayyad advocated for inclusive elections and a democratic system. However, the situation took a turn when Fayyad resigned after 29 days due to constitutional requirements. Throughout this period, Fayyad's relationship with his boss, Mahmoud Abbas, was not explicitly discussed.

    • Forming a government amidst political divisionsDespite political challenges, Fayyad served as PM and focused on nonviolence and financial reform, recognized internationally. Israel saw an opportunity to weaken Hamas and kept sides divided.

      During Salaam Fayyad's tenure as Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority in 2007, he faced significant challenges in forming a government due to political divisions and the absence of legislators. Despite these obstacles, he continued to serve and even formed a caretaker government. This period was marked by his commitment to nonviolence and financial reform, which was recognized internationally. Israel, on the other hand, saw an opportunity to strengthen the PA as an alternative to Hamas and kept the two sides divided. Fayyad's internal memo from April 2008 highlighted the need for unity and the challenges of maintaining a nonviolent platform while dealing with security issues. Overall, Fayyad's leadership during this time was marked by his resilience and dedication to building a Palestinian nation despite the complex political landscape.

    • The Oslo Accords: More Promise Than CommitmentThe Oslo Accords, while offering a promise of a Palestinian state, lacked tangible commitment. The focus later shifted to building a state-like structure, hoping it would lead to international recognition.

      The Oslo Accords, signed in 1993, promised Palestinians a state, but in reality, it was more of a promise than a tangible commitment. Israel was recognized as a state, while the Palestinian state was contingent. This asymmetry led to sensitivity around the issue of sovereignty and caused numerous disruptions in international meetings. By 2009, after many failed peace processing attempts, there was a shift in thinking: instead of waiting for international recognition of a Palestinian state, the focus was on building a state-like structure that could eventually lead to international recognition. This approach flipped the ordering of the peace process at the time. My personal skepticism about the peace process's ability to deliver a Palestinian state was shared by many.

    • Building a new institution from the ground upGaining people's support and addressing weaknesses are crucial for the success and sustainability of a new institution

      The success of creating a new institution or reality, such as the Palestinian state, requires building it from the ground up and gaining the support of the people, even if it initially lacks international recognition or cooperation. This was demonstrated in the Palestinian Authority's ability to turn around security conditions despite initial challenges and opposition from Israel. However, the sustainability and growth of the institution also depend on addressing key weaknesses, such as the lack of control over crucial areas and the inability to develop economically due to restrictive policies. The Palestinian Authority's experience highlights the importance of addressing these challenges to ensure the long-term success and viability of any new institution.

    • Israel missed chance to help build Palestinian stateIsrael's continued settlement expansion and military actions undercut peace process, leaving Palestinians without support for state-building.

      During the period when Mahmoud Abbas served as Palestinian president, Israel had the opportunity to help build a Palestinian state through security cooperation and economic development, but instead chose to continue settlement expansion and military incursions. This lack of action from Israel undermined the legitimacy of the peace process in the eyes of Palestinians and ultimately led to the process falling apart. The continuation of settlement expansion was a clear message to Palestinians that Israel did not see them as deserving of a separate sovereign entity. Despite the risks involved, the Palestinians believed in the path of nonviolence and state-building, but without support from Israel and the international community, they were unable to succeed.

    • The Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the challenges of achieving a two-state solutionDespite the Oslo Accords, Israeli leaders like Netanyahu have struggled to implement a meaningful and sustainable peace agreement due to internal resistance and lack of personal sovereignty for Palestinians.

      The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, particularly the Oslo Accords, has been a contentious issue for Israeli leaders, including Netanyahu, who have struggled to implement a meaningful and sustainable peace agreement. Netanyahu's actions, such as running against Oslo while being a proponent of it, and the lack of personal sovereignty in the 2020 peace plan, highlight the challenges in achieving a two-state solution. The speaker, a former Israeli finance minister, expressed his belief that the Israeli body politic never fully internalized the idea of a sovereign Palestinian state on the territory Israel occupied in 1967. The speaker's own resignation from the government in 2013 was due to his belief that the peace process was not leading to freedom for the Israeli people and was met with internal resistance.

    • Revitalizing the PLO for a stronger Palestinian AuthorityTo strengthen the Palestinian Authority, the PLO needs to be expanded and made more inclusive, addressing past failures and violent groups, ultimately building the institutions for a viable Palestinian state. International support is crucial for this reconfiguration.

      The current state of the Palestinian Authority is politically weak and unable to effectively govern, especially in the context of the ongoing conflict in Gaza. To address this issue, there is a need to impart political strength and credibility to the PA through the expansion of the PLO, making it more inclusive and representative of various Palestinian viewpoints. This could involve revitalizing the PLO as a home for all Palestinians, while also addressing its past failures and the role of violent groups like Hamas in Palestinian politics. Ultimately, the goal is to build the institutions necessary for a viable Palestinian state. The U.S. and Europe should support this reconfiguration of the Palestinian Authority, rather than pushing for a temporary arrangement or turning it over to the PA in its current condition.

    • Focusing on human needs and nonviolence in resolving Israeli-Palestinian conflictTo resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, prioritize human needs, promote nonviolence, and focus on good governance. Recommended reads: 'Why Nations Fail' and 'The Arabs'.

      Resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict requires a commitment to nonviolence from all parties involved, including Hamas, despite it being part of their identity in the past. The human dimension of this conflict, including the rebuilding of lives and livelihoods, should be the priority before focusing on broader political solutions. Good governance is essential for successful nations, as explained in the book "Why Nations Fail" by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson. For a deeper understanding of the Arab world and its history, "The Arabs" by Eugene Rogan is recommended. A novel that provides insight into the occupation and the experience of being a woman in Palestinian society is "On the Trails of Meriam" by Nadia Harash. Ultimately, ending the conflict permanently and addressing the daily loss of life and livelihoods should be the focus.

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    Mentioned:

    This Isn’t All Joe Biden’s Fault” by Ezra Klein

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

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    The Biden and Trump Weaknesses That Don’t Get Enough Attention” by Ross Douthat

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    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

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    But if you look at Trump’s actual policies, that wouldn’t be the case at all. Trump has a bold, ambitious agenda to make prices much, much higher. He’s proposing a 10 percent tariff on imported goods, and a 60 percent tariff on products from China. He wants to deport huge numbers of immigrants. And he’s made it clear that he’d like to replace the Federal Reserve chair with someone more willing to take orders from him. It’s almost unimaginable to me that you would run on this agenda at a time when Americans are so mad about high prices. But I don’t think people really know that’s what Trump is vowing to do.

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    Mentioned:

    Trump’s new economic plan is terrible” by Matthew Yglesias

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    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

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    The View From the Israeli Right

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    There is no viable left wing in Israel right now. There is a coalition that Netanyahu leads stretching from right to far right and a coalition that Gantz leads stretching from center to right. In the early months of the war, Gantz appeared ascendant as support for Netanyahu cratered. But now Netanyahu’s poll numbers are ticking back up.

    So one thing I did in Israel was deepen my reporting on Israel’s right. And there, Amit Segal’s name kept coming up. He’s one of Israel’s most influential political analysts and the author of “The Story of Israeli Politics” is coming out in English.

    Segal and I talked about the political differences between Gantz and Netanyahu, the theory of security that’s emerging on the Israeli right, what happened to the Israeli left, the threat from Iran and Hezbollah and how Netanyahu is trying to use President Biden’s criticism to his political advantage.

    Mentioned:

    Biden May Spur Another Netanyahu Comeback” by Amit Segal

    Book Recommendations:

    The Years of Lyndon Johnson Series by Robert A. Caro

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    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
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    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    There’s something weird happening with the economy. On a personal level, most Americans say they’re doing pretty well right now. And according to the data, that’s true. Wages have gone up faster than inflation. Unemployment is low, the stock market is generally up so far this year, and people are buying more stuff.

    And yet in surveys, people keep saying the economy is bad. A recent Harris poll for The Guardian found that around half of Americans think the S. & P. 500 is down this year, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high. Fifty-six percent think we’re in a recession.

    There are many theories about why this gap exists. Maybe political polarization is warping how people see the economy or it’s a failure of President Biden’s messaging, or there’s just something uniquely painful about inflation. And while there’s truth in all of these, it felt like a piece of the story was missing.

    And for me, that missing piece was an article I read right before the pandemic. An Atlantic story from February 2020 called “The Great Affordability Crisis Breaking America.” It described how some of Americans’ biggest-ticket expenses — housing, health care, higher education and child care — which were already pricey, had been getting steadily pricier for decades.

    At the time, prices weren’t the big topic in the economy; the focus was more on jobs and wages. So it was easier for this trend to slip notice, like a frog boiling in water, quietly, putting more and more strain on American budgets. But today, after years of high inflation, prices are the biggest topic in the economy. And I think that explains the anger people feel: They’re noticing the price of things all the time, and getting hammered with the reality of how expensive these things have become.

    The author of that Atlantic piece is Annie Lowrey. She’s an economics reporter, the author of Give People Money, and also my wife. In this conversation, we discuss how the affordability crisis has collided with our post-pandemic inflationary world, the forces that shape our economic perceptions, why people keep spending as if prices aren’t a strain and what this might mean for the presidential election.

    Mentioned:

    It Will Never Be a Good Time to Buy a House” by Annie Lowrey

    Book Recommendations:

    Franchise by Marcia Chatelain

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    Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
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    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    After Donald Trump was convicted last week in his hush-money trial, Republican leaders wasted no time in rallying behind him. There was no chance the Republican Party was going to replace Trump as their nominee at this point. Trump has essentially taken over the G.O.P.; his daughter-in-law is even co-chair of the Republican National Committee.

    How did the Republican Party get so weak that it could fall victim to a hostile takeover?

    Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld are the authors of “The Hollow Parties: The Many Pasts and Disordered Present of American Party Politics,” which traces how both major political parties have been “hollowed out” over the decades, transforming once-powerful gatekeeping institutions into mere vessels for the ideologies of specific candidates. And they argue that this change has been perilous for our democracy.

    In this conversation, we discuss how the power of the parties has been gradually chipped away; why the Republican Party became less ideological and more geared around conflict; the merits of a stronger party system; and more.

    Mentioned:

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” by The Ezra Klein Show with Elaine Kamarck

    Book Recommendations:

    The Two Faces of American Freedom by Aziz Rana

    Rainbow’s End by Steven P. Erie

    An American Melodrama by Lewis Chester, Godfrey Hodgson, Bruce Page

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show’‘ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker, Kate Sinclair and Rollin Hu. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 04, 2024

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    The steady dings of notifications. The 40 tabs that greet you when you open your computer in the morning. The hundreds of unread emails, most of them spam, with subject lines pleading or screaming for you to click. Our attention is under assault these days, and most of us are familiar with the feeling that gives us — fractured, irritated, overwhelmed.

    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

    In this conversation, we talk about how the 20th-century study of attention laid the groundwork for today’s attention economy, the connection between changing ideas of attention and changing ideas of the self, how we even define attention (this episode is worth listening to for Burnett’s collection of beautiful metaphors alone), whether the concern over our shrinking attention spans is simply a moral panic, what it means to teach attention and more.

    Mentioned:

    Friends of Attention

    The Battle for Attention” by Nathan Heller

    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

    Book Recommendations:

    Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll

    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

    The Confidence-Man by Herman Melville

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 31, 2024

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    A.I.-generated art has flooded the internet, and a lot of it is derivative, even boring or offensive. But what could it look like for artists to collaborate with A.I. systems in making art that is actually generative, challenging, transcendent?

    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

    Mentioned:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

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    She Polled Gazans on Oct. 6. Here’s What She Found.

    The day before Hamas’s horrific attacks in Israel, the Arab Barometer, one of the leading polling operations in the Arab world, was finishing up a survey of public opinion in Gaza.

    The result is a remarkable snapshot of how Gazans felt about Hamas and hoped the conflict with Israel would end. And what Gazans were thinking on Oct. 6 matters, now that they’re all living with the brutal consequences of what Hamas did on Oct. 7.

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    Washington Institute Poll

    Book Recommendations:

    The One State Reality edited by Michael Barnett, Nathan J. Brown, Marc Lynch and Shibley

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